Takeda CEO urges transparency in virus vaccine rollout

common sense would suggest that a healthy gut and strong immune system is all the average person needs for a virus with a 99.98% survival rate.

Unfortunately though the powers that (shouldn’t) continue to scare the public into taking these experimental vaccines.

Historically these drug companies don’t have a great track record when it comes to transparency so people should be very careful

Pharmaceutical firms must be "very transparent" about the risks and benefits of vaccines in efforts to end the coronavirus pandemic, the head of Asia's largest drugmaker has told AFP.

Unfortunately, transparency for Japanese business and government is like holy water to a vampire.

The risk of an experimental vaccine is still way lower than the risk of lacking immunity to a disease that can kill you.

common sense would suggest that a healthy gut and strong immune system is all the average person needs for a virus with a 99.98% survival rate.

Except that death is not the only negative consequence of the infection. And even if it were, making that survival rate a 99.998% is still a very positive development. If, as expected, being vaccinated also reduces the transmission after being exposed to the virus that would be also a very strong reason to get it.

The point of vaccinating the healthy is to protect the vulnerable from them.

common sense would suggest that a healthy gut and strong immune system is all the average person needs for a virus with a 99.98% survival rate.

That sense isn’t common to me. Please explain. How would a healthy immune system and gut help protect against a virus that is able to get through healthy immune systems? And how have you determined that this virus is unable to get past healthy immune systems?

Takeda signed a deal with the Japanese government and U.S. firm Moderna Therapeutics in October to import and distribute 50 million doses of its vaccine in Japan from the first part of 2021.

So what this means is that Takeda can formally start the import on July 1 of 2021.

Seems to me, the life in 2021 won't be much different from 2020.

Isn't there something Japan can do to speed the process up ?

I am now thinking maybe it will make sense for us the foreigners to go elsewhere and pay ourselves for the vaccine.

There are numerous reports that the vaccines only prevent the development of the virus to a serious disease in people who have taken it. Whilst this is a very good thing and the vulnerable need to be vaccinated, it does not stop people getting the disease asymptomatically or still spreading it to others. Vaccinating the healthy will do nothing towards protecting the vulnerable. It is a waste of vaccine and in the case of children or younger healthy people they already have far more than 95% chance of not getting seriously ill. Why do they need a vaccine that gives them less protection than they already have and doest change their ability to spread the virus . Better give it to the vulnerable who do need it

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/vaccine-unlikely-to-return-us-to-the-old-normal-20201218-p56onf.html#comments

@n1k1

Seems to me, the life in 2021 won't be much different from 2020.

I 100% agree!

Exactly what I said before too, 2021 will be probably same like 2020.

I guess the Vaccine in Japan is not coming before summer.

I am now thinking maybe it will make sense for us the foreigners to go elsewhere and pay ourselves for the vaccine.

I was thinking the same thing, because my home country will start vaccine probably from January.

But I have no money and no time to go there.

I also think because I am a PR in Japan without any address in my home country, my home country will put me at the End of the line for priority of the vaccine or will even refuse me.

But on the other hand, I think, if other countries starts the vaccine earlier than Japan, it is good for us to see how it goes. (Side effects).

"Medicines or vaccines are never perfect... there are always some side effects," said Weber

Absolutely true!

I have the feeling that all the euphoria according this vaccine is going down a little bit.

So if I have to live 2021 in the same way like 2020, it sucks,...but I can manage that.

There are numerous reports that the vaccines only prevent the development of the virus to a serious disease in people who have taken it. Whilst this is a very good thing and the vulnerable need to be vaccinated, it does not stop people getting the disease asymptomatically or still spreading it to others. 

First, that is how all vaccines work, preventing the disease but not the infection, because after a few weeks after the vaccination it becomes realistically impossible to prevent the first few cells to be infected. Second, it is completely different to say that we don't have proof of the vaccine preventing spreading and saying that we have proof it does not prevent it. It is still very likely vaccination will at least reduce importantly the spreading in the immunized people, we just don't have proof of it yet.

We already know that pre-symptomatic people spread the infection less than symptomatic people, and that in asymptomatic people this spreading is reduced even more, even if the only effect of the vaccine is to make immunized subjects spread as asymptomatic carriers that would still be an important reduction, it is not irrational to expect an even stronger reduction than that.

Why do they need a vaccine that gives them less protection than they already have and doest change their ability to spread the virus .

You are confused, being vaccinated do not mean that you body have to choose which of the protections to use (natural and acquired immunity), it will use both. Let's say that some person have a 99% of having a mild or asymptomatic infection if exposed to the virus, if this person is immunized he will have an extra 95% protection, that means that instead of having a 1% chance of needing hospitalization he now will have a 0.05% chance, the vaccine is not wasted.

Takeda is developing the drug for Covid-19 and the reporter should have asked him about its progress.

By the way, I would like Mr. Christophe Weber to raise the share price of Takeda much more. The trend of share prices after his succession of the president are as follows;

(2014/6/E → 2020/12/18)

Takeda : 4,699 → 3,877

Otsuka : 3,140 → 4,479

Astellas : 1,331 → 1,539

Daiichi-Sankyo : 1,890 → 3,333

Nikkei Average : 15,162 → 26,763

Very bad result for the shareholders of Takeda so far.

As always, the Japanese companies will copy but , hopefully, as is often the case, also improve , the product. In this case

"There is no leading vaccine player in Japan,"

Reading between lines suggests that lack of transparency is the reason of that.

I am all for people having the right to comment but when people write false and possibly dangerous information that should be unacceptable.

The false claim repeated and posted here that 99.98% of Covid-19 patients recover is false debunked many times.

If and that is if one lives in a highly developed country and can receive the best and most advanced care the mortality rate cand be as low as 1.5% but on average it is quite higher.

Death is far from the only problem.

Anyone that has had pneumonia can attest that once they recovered their lungs were never the same and Covid-19 is no exception and by all standards far more severe than the average pneumonia with of 90% of those affected by covid-19 suffering permanent lung damage ranging from very mild to very sever that causes those affected to have permanent breathing problems.

The other false information is that the vaccine was developed in a few months.

False the vaccine has been in development for 17 years and the technology and method was under development for the SARS virus but because that original virus ended their was no way or reason to finish it.

So the present vaccine is basically the SARS vaccine slightly adjusted to function on SARS2 AKA Covid-19.

The only difference between this vaccine and the normal process is that it is not being tested on a limited basis for 1 to 2 years before deploying it. And the 1 to 2 years is not a universal time line with many countries using shorter testing periods under normal circumstances.

Japan should also contribute by doing clinical trials for the vaccine instead of just waiting to see what happen in foreign countries.

At least some people would get the vaccine right away and help remove this virus once and for all.

@Reckless

Let us hope that this news is correct!

common sense would suggest that a healthy gut and strong immune system is all the average person needs for a virus with a 99.98% survival rate.

And even if it were, making that survival rate a 99.998% is still a very positive development.

Yeah that would be a positive development and it might be worth getting the vaccine if the vaccine is 100% safe; it isn't.

Also, we don't yet know whether any of these vaccines will increase the covid survival rate.

@wobot

Real facts 90% if those that contract covid-19 suffer long term effects especially lungs not so with vaccine.

Pfizer's trials did not include verifying if those vaccinated could carry the virus and are now doing that study, Moderna actually did and the preliminary results show that those vaccinated are 3 times less likely to carry and spread the virus.

If you are going to post something about a medical issue try using a real medical reference site.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2009758

It seems quite clear, factual, and medical fact asymptomatic spread is a major factor in the spread of Covid-19.

As for your claim no Japanese company developing a vaccine, this again is not true.

AnGes Inc., Takara Bio Inc. and Osaka University, is developing one as is Shionogi & Co. and others

The major Japanese pharmaceutical companies have subsidiaries overseas and partnerships that are working on a vaccine in cooperation in India, China and the EU.

Facts not false information is easily found if one wants to find it.

And again survival rate is NOT 99.998% even in the highest developed countries it is at best 98.5% with 90% of those having contracted covid-19 suffering some form of lung damage.

Stop spreading false information!

The mortality rate in the USA which has a very unorganized reporting system is 1.5% and because the reporting system is so poorly centralized the real rate is expected to be far higher just based on the number of deaths that have been recorded for 2020 which is significantly higher than the average year.

It will be revealing to see the Covid-cult, who has been ignoring the statistical evidence of the relative mildness of this virus, do a complete u-turn and start to ignore the anecdotal evidence of the dangers of the vaccine and push the statistical argument of vaccine safety. You'll hear things like, "the vaccine only causes problems in 0.5% of people who get it. It's a small price to pay. Don't you understand statistics, you science denying idiot?"

This change in risk assessment will show that it's never been about saving lives, but rather it's about demanding obedience to the religion of modern Scientism.

As far as the mRNA technology goes, it COULD be an amazing medical tool. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean it should be rushed. There are many unintended problems that could result. Here are 3 potential problems:

1 - The vaccine delivers the mRNA to naive b-cells and other antigen presenting cells. When t-cells are eventually activated to stimulate naive b-cells to produce antibodies against the protein encoded by the vaccine mRNA, both the appropriate naive b-cells that make antibodies against the right protein, AND the naive b-cells that took in the vaccine are "turned on" and start pumping out antibodies. The "wrong" naive b-cells in this case will start to make antibodies against other random proteins, this could result in autoimmune problems.

2 - The mRNA vaccine gets into cells that happen to be co-infected with other mild RNA viruses. In the case of this vaccine in particular, the mRNA that encodes the spike protein gets incorporated into the genome of the other RNA virus, and you've just created a new potentially more deadly virus. The chances of this scenario happening are very small, but if your repeatedly inject everyone in the world (like they want to do), the chances become more likely. They are essentially turning the whole human population into one giant viral cell culture, and adding this sequence of mRNA and seeing if some new recombinate RNA virus can be made.

3 - After the mRNA from the vaccine is broken down in the cell, the pseudo-methyl uracil that is used in this engineered mRNA could be incorporated into other "natural" mRNA being built by the cell. The inclusion of this synthetic uracil into natural cellular mRNA might affect protein regulation and this could cause health problems. This problem would only happen if a lot of vaccine mRNA is repeatedly injected into people (which seems like what they want to do, and is a massive red flag).

Going full steam ahead without addressing these possible problems is criminally reckless. The blatant disregard for safety by so many institutions shows that in high places there likely are nefarious motivations, agendas and plans involved. It's clear we cannot trust the institutions to be honest about these potential problems, so it's up to us to do it ourselves.

Where are the folks who said that Japan will dominate the vaccine race?

Yeah that would be a positive development and it might be worth getting the vaccine if the vaccine is 100% safe; it isn't.

No, that is only an imaginary cut-off value that antivaxxers like to repeat but has not base on reality, vaccines are worth as long as any risk from them is lower than what could be expected from the natural infection. There is no requirement for the vaccine to be perfectly safe in order to be better than not vaccinating.

This change in risk assessment will show that it's never been about saving lives, but rather it's about demanding obedience to the religion of modern Scientism.

Your flawed argument do not prove that, assuming that an imaginary situation somehow proves a very limited conclusion is not valid.

Do you have proof that the side effects of the vaccine are more relevant to the health than the natural infection? then provide a link to that proof, else you are just repeating something that has been proved false by the phase III clinical trials.

There is no rushing for the mRNA technology, it may surprise you but this is not new, COVID-19 is not the first application it has, and it has been characterized extensively over decades of experimentation.

Also most of what you "know" about it is wrong.

The mRNA is NOT presented to antigen presenting cells, but to systemic cells, the produced protein is the one that will be presented to the immune system.

There is no evidence that "wrong" b-cells exist nor that other random proteins are being targeted by the immune system. And this would be something extremely easy to find from preclinical studies.

There is no mechanism to incorporate a mature mRNA molecule to other virus genomes, incorporation requires specific sequences that are not included in the vaccine and that not even every virus can use, if your theory were correct viruses would be constantly incorporating the normal, usual, human mRNA that fills the cytoplasm of the cells, this obviously does not happen, at all.

There is no evidence at all of methyl uracil being incorporated to the natural mRNAs of the cell, nor of it producing any kind of toxicity even at concentrations a thousand times higher than what is on average introduced to cells. And even if that were the case (it is not) naturally produced mRNA has a half life of hours at much, any mRNA incorporating molecules from the vaccine would be degraded on the same day, replaced by the billions of time more common natural nucleotides abundant in the cytoplasm, in essence producing no effect.

There is no need to address imaginary problems that would need every biological science to have been wrong for the last couple of centuries in order to be right. Especially when if any of that were actually true it would have produced plenty of evidence of problems from the in-vitro studies, not even having to wait for the preclinical or clinical studies to find something goes wrong. Badly understanding something can be more dangerous than not understanding it at all, because it can lead to completely mistaken conclusions like the ones you wrote.

@Septim Dynasty

Oddly enough Japan sort of did in a backwards way.

AstraZeneca's vaccine is based on the technology developed by Takeda for the first SARS virus.

Takeda sold it's division to AstraZeneca in 2015 along with all the research and technology.

I am guessing they are now regretting that sale.

Ego Sum Lux Mundi

Where are you getting this "information" from in the first place?

common sense would suggest that a healthy gut and strong immune system is all the average person needs for a virus with a 99.98% survival rate.

@ Penfold - Youd better cite a few reputable studies to support that number, and those claims, or we will think you made it up.

@Reckless

Today at 5:00 in the morning I drove past a shrine in Shinjuku ward, it is the first day to get new year good luck charms.

There were thousands of people lined up crammed together for several blocks.

Japan has been it's own worst enemy with years of false information that the Japanese are physically different and with early in the Covid pandemic having few cases and going on about having far better hygiene practices than other countries.

So now complacency has set in, few people think the virus will affect them because of the above.

So proper and vigorous promotion of the vaccine is going to be a must if only because of these factors.

It is interesting to read the pro and con posts about the vaccine. I am pro vaccine (my kids were vaccinated) but I want to see both sides and decide for myself based on risk factors. In my case I have allergies to one of the ingredients of the vaccines so I am going to wait (have to wait in Japan anyway).

The U.S. is coming up with interesting ways to roll out the vaccine - I think no one is perfect on this one

Nationwide

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9070555/Half-states-want-prioritize-black-Hispanic-people-vaccine-rollout.html

At Stanford University (a great hospital - especially the children's hospital) front line workers are being put behind some people who are telecommuting (this is soon to be rectified)

https://www.stanforddaily.com/2020/12/18/stanford-medicine-passes-over-front-line-residents-fellows-in-initial-vaccine-allocation

@Tokyo-Engr

I think the UK has done a far better job than the USA in its roll out.

First the UK has centralised the roll out compared to the USA which ships to locations designated by each state then each state has to figure out its own system.

The USA has shipped the Vaccine only to large institutions that have ultra cold freezers, leaving many rural and poor communities out of the initial rollout.

The UK has gone in a different direction seeing the central government is handling it all.

They have set up regional staging centres with ultra cold freezers. These centres prepare each shipment do the initial defrosing of the vaccine cold pack them and distribute to the vaccination centres to be given out immediately or within 5 days.

This method required fewer ultra cold freezers and means that even communities without large medical centres are serviced based on the need of each region and not just large urban areas.

@Antiquesaving

Although I am in Japan so I do not have first hand knowledge of each location I would agree with you based on what I have read and heard. As you can see in the first article I referenced each state seems to have a different methodology of rolling out the vaccine and half are using race as one metric to prioritize.

The UK with the National Health System can address this nationally which is much more effective.

As I have stated before I am a strong proponent of the single payer system which I believe would help the U.S. immensely at this time in not only administrating the vaccine but also dealing with the Pandemic. What you stated below is a good example of what the U.S. is not capable of doing right now. A strong President (Trump is not) could have addressed this by executive order (but he would have certainly received push back). Everything in the U.S. is too politicized.

They have set up regional staging centres with ultra cold freezers. These centres prepare each shipment do the initial defrosing of the vaccine cold pack them and distribute to the vaccination centres to be given out immediately or within 5 days.

This method required fewer ultra cold freezers and means that even communities without large medical centres are serviced based on the need of each region and not just large urban areas.

@Matej

Perhaps you should have checked before posting.

Takeda stock has been rising, they made $12 billion last year.

No money problems for them and they are not producing the vaccine they are being paid to distribute it.

As for unstested I am guessing you missed all the information regarding all the trials done in multiple countries. That is called testing.

But if you prefer to take the risk of permanent lung damage by catching the virus then that is your choice but note that 90% if those that get covid-19 end up with some for of lung damage.

Take it from me I had pneumonia at the age of 20 a simple microplasmic one and over 30 years later the damage is still there and still a problem, Covid-19 makes microplastic pneumonia look like a minor cold.

In Japan, only a very small proportion of the population has been infected and a much smaller number have died.

Therefore, I am in no hurry for a vaccine.

This virus will have mutated into a more harmless variant before vaccines are fully rolled out in Japan anyway...

For the anti vaxxers and Covid deniers claiming 99,998% recovery if it is so safe to get covid-19 why not volunteer in a Covid ward.

Don't get the vaccine, and don't wear PPE if you are all so sure of your claims.

I have lost 3 family members this year and do to travel restrictions I colud not be there, one died due to covid-19, she was a retired nurse only 68 in excellent health, no underlying factors, ran marathons regularly every year. She could have remained retired but when called and with the need for ICU staff so desperate her sense of duty made ignoring the needs of others impossible.

It is frustrating to read the false information anti vaxxers and anti maskers spew out daily.

The vaccines are not the end of Covid-19 but only the start of a possible end and that is only if people wear their masks and get the vaccine in large numbers.

So again if you are so sure your anti vaxxers and Covid denying information is true then put your life and health where your mouth is and go volunteer to care for covid patients.

Otherwise your words have no meaning just like they have no facts to back then up.

@kurisupisu

Guess you haven't been reading bthe news lately, the SDF has had to be called up to handle the rising number of cases in Japan, ICU beds are full in most major cities.

As for

This virus will have mutated into a more harmless variant before vaccine

Again reading the news helps.

The UK has just identified a new strain and it is by far not more harmless, on the contrary it is far more transmissible and is now responsible for 60% of all Covid-19 cases in the UK.

Up to now each new strain has become stronger and more transmissible then the previous one.

Again facts are important.

90% of those having contracted covid-19 suffering some form of lung damage.

Stop spreading false information!

@Raw Beer

Do some checking and you can find out facts.

The long term evidence is just starting to be complied and that is the fact.

Trying to spread covid denier by just posting a comment means nothing.

Search the 90% and the information is right there.

Facts matter.

And again survival rate is NOT 99.998% even in the highest developed countries it is at best 98.5% with 90% of those having contracted covid-19 suffering some form of lung damage.

Speaking of facts, you are nor better at bringing up correct facts. Recent estimations put the infection fatality rate (IRF) at 0.6%.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01738-2

Another very recent study has estimated the IRF of SARS-CoV-2 in a super spreading event in Germany at 0.36% for the community and 0.35% when age-standardized for the population of the community.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19509-y

Many other estimations (including the ones from US CDC) have put the IFR inside the range of those values. So the affirmation that the survival rate is at best 98.5 % is therefore factually wrong.

Concerning the absurd affirmation that 90% of those having contracted the virus suffer from lung damage, do you any studies proving that? Here is a study (still in preprint though) that address the issue of long lasting symptoms. They found that after analyzing the data of 4182 incident cases of COVID-19, 13.3% had symptoms lasting 28 days, 4.5% for 8 weeks and 2.3% for 12 weeks. Long-COVID was characterised by symptoms of fatigue, headache, dyspnoea and anosmia and was more likely with increasing age, BMI and female sex.

https://search.bvsalud.org/global-literature-on-novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov/resource/en/ppmedrxiv-20214494

Small correction:

13.3% had symptoms lasting 28 days, 4.5% for 8 weeks and 2.3% for 12 weeks.

Silly forum limitation, the greater-than sign does not appear. So I try again:

13.3% had symptoms lasting greater-than 28 days, 4.5% for greater-than 8 weeks and 2.3% for greater-than 12 weeks.

@daito_hak

Ok then if you believe all the stuff you claim then you will be ready to volunteer in a Covid unit without vaccine and PPE, right?

As far as I know plenty of places need help.

@daito_hak

World War II 1941–1945 291,557 USA death

Covid-19 2020 as of today 318,000

but the Covid deniers still say it is nothing more than a cold of flu.

Oh the yearly average USA flu deaths is 61,000 but hey covid isn't dangerous, right?

The denial is stunning.

@Antiquesaving

I am not claiming anything, that's not about my believe and even less about being volunteer for anything, please read properly my post. I am reporting scientific facts, real data, real research. Either you make the effort to debate those data if you have the qualification to do that or you just stop to spread disinformation. What you said is factually flat wrong and I showed you real scientific research proving that. And I strongly encourage you to have a look to the publications.

World War II 1941–1945 291,557 USA death

Covid-19 2020 as of today 318,000

This comparison is totally meaningless and actually you are also wrong here lol. The total US deaths for WWII is 405,399

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_casualties_of_war

But again, look at the IRF of of SARS-CoV-2 as estimated by real research instead of coming up with silly comparisons.

@daito_hak

Covid-19 2020 as of today in the USA 318,000

there is a fact and data.

Explain that at 98.998% survival

@daito_hak

World War II 1941–1945 291,557 USA death

Came from the USA government website not Wiki so I will go with the official USA gov numbers and not a publicly edited website.

Same for the 318,000 covid-19 death straight from the USA gov site.

The denial is stunning.

What is stunning is how unable you are at replying to my arguments which again I recall you, are not my point of view but what science says. Putting things in perspective using real science is not denying them so your simplistic argument of accusing people of being deniers is just showing an apparent inaptitude for being able to hear anything that goes against the believes you convinced yourself of.

My guess is with all the red tape and hand wringing that goes on here in Japan the vaccines won’t arrive until the virus has peetered out on its own.

World War II 1941–1945 291,557 USA death

Came from the USA government website not Wiki so I will go with the official USA gov numbers and not a publicly edited website.

You failed to read the wikipedia site properly, see the note. Also the source for the numbers reported on wikipedia is The Oxford Companion to American Military History. Not edited randomly as you seem to say. And again you are replying for a subject which has nothing to do with COVID and fails to reply about the matter in hand.

Covid-19 2020 as of today in the USA 318,000

there is a fact and data.

Explain that at 98.998% survival

Look at the research I linked. The main reason of the very low estimated IRF is that it takes into accounts for the asymptomatic cases which are believed to be very underestimated. You are looking at the absolute death numbers, which is not what you should do to analyze a pandemic.

Covid-19 2020 as of today in the USA 318,000

By the way as of today US has 324,869 deaths. This comes down to a mortality rate (so reported to the total population of US) to around 0.1%. Yes 324,869 deaths is tragic, and the most must be done to save lives. But put things into perspective please.

By the way as of today US has 324,869 deaths. This comes down to a mortality rate (so reported to the total population of US) to around 0.1%.

Eh? Didn't bother to fact-check yourself on how it works, did you.

The CFR (Case Fatality Rate) - aka mortality rate - is in relation to the number of cases, not the overall population.

For the fatality rate to be 0.1% at the current number of deaths, it would mean roughly the entire population of the USA had been infected. And diagnosed (remember, "cases").

Thank you daito_hak

for providing links to articles debunking some of the ridiculous claims people make here with absolutely no links to prove them - the 90% of those having contracted covid-19 suffering some form of lung damage.