Toyota unveils revamped Mirai hydrogen fuel cell car

timeonDec. 9 05:07 pm JST

Bjorn, so you think that paying 5 mil yen for a new car based on a completely new technology is stupid?? I don't know what are you driving, but 3-4 mil yen is standard for a new car, gasoline or hybrid. Of course, not kei stuff.

Its hardly completely new technology, Hydrogen cars have been on the roads in Japan for a few years now.

How much subsidy is toyota getting for each one?

That is tax payer money going down the gurglers.

and yes 5 mill yen for a plastic unproven thing that pretty much can only go with in a small radius is utter stupidity.

Tie a fly to a short piece of cotton and watch ! You will soon understand.

There are many agreeable exceptions to the good old 'normal'.

Some classics like the 2000GT, the AE86s, the Toyota Supra, the Soarers, the Celica GT4s, the MR2, the stunning GT-1, and the Lexus LFA. Even some of the racing versions of the Prius are stunning.

Toyoda Akio must also be credited directly with continuing and increasing Toyota's sporting image.

 But now, it's just deathly boring to look at.

Normal for Toyota.

I see they removed all the ugly bits from the 1st gen. But now, it's just deathly boring to look at.

If there isn't any oxygen, H2 will not explode.

If there is any exposure to the atmosphere because the storage tank ruptured the H2 will most definitely explode. Liquid gasoline is not flammable either, but the vapors are and in the right concentration can be explosive.

For most non-gasoline vehicles, the plan for longer trips is to rent a different vehicle and leave your car at home. This applies to electric and fuel cell vehicles. Basically, if you have a home, you'll only refuel/power up there.

H2 storage has come a long way from simple pressure tanks. They use carbon fiber + aluminum with a honeycomb that prevents explosive pressures from happening. It isn't The Hindenburg. If there isn't any oxygen, H2 will not explode.

The drive train for fuel-cell vehicles is just electric with a different power source. They use the fuel-cell electric output instead of 500-800 lbs of batteries. The future of all vehicles is an electric power train. The differences will be in what provides the electricity.

Where I live, fuel-cell leases are not provided. Honda will not even sell a fuel-cell vehicle. They will only lease them. Looks like this Toyota model range is becoming competitive to the Honda fuel-cell car.

Electrolysis isn't the only way to make H2. Steam reforming is how they do it using landfill out-gassing. Gasification is another but requires organic matter under high pressure. Electrolysis can use water and we know how to ship water almost everywhere, safely, but it isn't very efficient. If solar power is used to power it, I'm not sure how much that matters, provided enough H2 can be captured and stored.

Gasoline is dangerous and smelly, hydrogen is costly and difficult to refill.

Hydrogen is more dangerous than gasoline. It's highly explosive.

Hydrogen fuel cell airplanes can fly 

You may see hydrogen replace jet fuel and av gas in combustion engines with fuel cells for generating electrical power to run other systems such as lighting, guages, maybe even the flight control system, but fuel cells do not have the power density necessary to power an airplane. To fly one needs to make a lot of power with minimum weight. Fuel cells aren't going to do that. But testing has shown combustion engines like gas turbines and piston engines can be made to run on hydrogen. The fuel tanks required to store pressurized hydrogen can be heavy though, another drawback for an airplane as that weight cuts into payload.

At the end, it's all about how to store the energy that will pump the engine of the car.

Gasoline is dangerous and smelly, hydrogen is costly and difficult to refill.

Smart people will choose batteries nowadays.

How many refueling places are there in Japan?

Not many so far. Electricity stations are more than hydrogen stations. Hydrogen fuel cell is as powerful as gasoline. Jet airplane can fly by hydrogen. Problem is constantly how to produce a lot of hydrogen all the time.

How many refueling places are there in Japan?

As the battery technology is evolving rapidly both in price and weight, Hydrogen cars and trucks will not be able to compete in price. Producing Hydrogen is also costly and if not produced by renewable energy the CO2 emission will be too high as CO2 will also be taxed soon in Japan as well. Better to use Hydrogen for large ships, trains and airplanes, and batteries for cars, trucks, and busses. If Toyota and the Japanese government’s long term target is to develop Fuel cell for heavy transportation like ships, trains and airplanes testing it out in Fuel-Cell cars is OK, but if the plan for Hydrogen is small cars like Corollas it will be too expensive. And when people are getting used to charge the EV cars at home over the night who wants to go to a Hydrogen station. A trip into a station always takes longer time then 5min as Fuel-Cell car commercial claims. Just time yourself the next few times, you will be surprised.

Hydrogen is future and if japanese companies delivery new battery technology like solid state battery than EV is future otherwise not, in both cases Japan will have to lead. Other countries not capable in Fuel cell stack manufacturing at present but they will catch up Japan must keep there lead. Same case for new battery technology.

The government if it wants to back hydrogen should be ensuring there are the fuelling stations for them. With that proviso, they are far better than battery electric in range, refuelling, whole life environmental impact and resale price. The expressed concern over hydrogen safety is misplaced; petrol is actually more dangerous but we are used to it.

From the side it reminds me of a Model S. Boring, although the back reminds me of a Saab.

The dash is the usual dog's dinner ゲロゲロ。

despite Japanese government backing, subsidies?, should be a lot cheeper since my taxes paid for a lot of the technology. And cost! I kind of have already paid enough for it one way or another. Toyota is a private company? Or a arm of the ministry of transport hard to tell sometimes.

PS Yes, I know that hydrogen is generated by an electrical process, but that can be and is being achieved by renewables.

I would LOVE to get one of these, but sadly the price is a little out out of range. I have already looked at second-hand models, and some of these first generation are genuinely within reach. Now if my wife would just look the other way, I would sacrifice an ICE car and empty the bank balance for an FCV.

In our city we have one filling station and another is being built, but that would not be a problem just knowing that it gives off zero emissions, even if the fuel is a little more expensive. I'd happily drive there for a tank. You just have to know where the stations are, and plan accordingly. I hate the thought that the whole world will depend on electricity for their EVs in the very near future, and I truly wish to avoid putting all my eggs in one basket. Ideally I would have one EV and one hydrogen fuel cell vehicle, ready for any eventuality, but the FCV first, definitely.

Too early to buy as there is virtually non existing network of hydrogen fuel stations...

They should start with taxis. A fair few of them are LPG and it doesn't matter because they always refuel at the same place.

Further to what Glenn Terashita said, the Nissan Leaf electric car also seems to have depreciated very quickly in Japan. I don't think its a bad car or anything, but its just what has happened.

All cars would be hydrogen fuel cell engine in the future if car became reasonable (inexpensive) price and hydrogen stations were all over places like gas station, because hydrogen car has best mileage than ever. Hydrogen fuel cell airplanes can fly and truck/bus are running instead of regular fuel.

my next car will be electric because I have solar panels.

A 30% greater range? That’s an exact information like ‘my breakfast today was 30% more delicious’. lol

Bjorn, so you think that paying 5 mil yen for a new car based on a completely new technology is stupid?? I don't know what are you driving, but 3-4 mil yen is standard for a new car, gasoline or hybrid. Of course, not kei stuff.

With Govt subsidies they are 5 mill yen new , who is stupid enough to actually buy one ? other than a govt a local council or some advertising outfit as a stunt ?

Where would you go in it ? Where would you refill it to get back home ?

Regarding resale values, here in California, new 2020 Mirai models sell for about $50,000 (currently discounted from a list price of $59,000 (before any government subsidies)). Used 2017 models are selling for $11,000-$14,000. How does this compare to other cars? Resale value varies by model of course, but on average in the US, cars retain over 50% of their original new car price after 3 years.

This is quite cool and I was thinking about buying one, but then we got more kids and I have to wait until they become older, or until Toyota makes a family van. Once thing I am afraid is the safety of the compressed hydrogen tank, I worked with hydrogen and I know its potential for explosion. I hope they did all the crash tests, for example recreating a big truck crashing in at high speed on the highway, etc.