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Angry Bitcoin investors demand answers at Tokyo creditors' meeting

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You gamble your money on "virtual" currency and it goes wrong? How is that different than gambling on the stock market and losing? "Virtual" isn't quite real....

4 ( +9 / -5 )

It's the same old story: You never hear people who made a ton of money on risky speculation complaining.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

@JohnDigsJapan

In fact, bit coin is not really so different to the paper we have in our pockets with number printed on it we think is money. Simply consider the PIGS and the mess those countries ended up in with so called real money that people couldn't get from their bank.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

In fact, bit coin is not really so different to the paper we have in our pockets with number printed on it we think is money.

It's exactly the same thing. The only reason paper money has value, is because people believe it to have value. The only reason money in a bank (which is virtual/digital the same as bitcoin) has value, is because people believe it to have value.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

"In fact, bit coin is not really so different to the paper we have in our pockets with number printed on it."

Wow. OK, then, try paying your taxes or your mortgage in bitcoins and see what happens. LOL. The yen is backed by the world's 3rd biggest economy.

Bitcoin is backed by the cult of "Satoshi" who probably doesn't even exist, plus an overweight incompetent Frenchman and his mates.

"It's exactly the same thing"

That's too funny for words.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Wow. OK, then, try paying your taxes or your mortgage in bitcoins and see what happens. LOL.

Sigh. I guess I have to explain it more for people who don't have the mental capacity to grasp the concept.

Ask the Cypriots and the Argentinians about this, they will be able to tell you first hand about how money that was previously thought to have value all of a sudden can have no value.

The yen is backed by the world's 3rd biggest economy.

That just means more people agree that the paper with some numbers written on it, or the computer screen that shows a bank balance, have value. It doesn't change the fact that the only thing that gives these value is people's belief that they have value.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

@JohnDigsJapan, This time it's different - the currency itself isn't to blame, but how MtGox was managed. If you gambled on the stock market and your broker happened to "lose" your money and go bankrupt, you'd be protesting, wouldn't you? The currency is doing well, but Karpeles should explain himself.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

the only thing that gives these value is people's belief that they have value.

It's tough to argue against this.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

“The meeting was designed to discuss the bankruptcy process itself and they separated that from what happened to Bitcoin,” said 50-year-old Toshiya Takahashi. “What people wanted to know was what happened and why.”

Yes, welcome to the Japanese way of doing things. Explain the process and never touch on the "troubles" as it will be too "uncomfortable" to discuss. After all, they are sorry for causing any "misunderstanding" and this was all just "unfortunate".

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Mark needs to be in jail, he's a lying sack of crap, unforcantly Japanese lawmakers don't understand bitcoin so do nothing.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

SUCKERS!!!

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Mark reads this site, he doesn't have to work, I wonder why!?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

The biter bit.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

IMF will never let it work

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"Angry Bitcoin" is a good name for a game.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@MissingCylonModel

I was thinking in the same line... because I first read "Angry Birds investors demands...."

It will be like, angry investors throwing.,..imaginary money to a french man kind of game?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Only a fool would trust bitcoin.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

I didn't lose any bitcoin but the smug attitude of Mark (sending tweets out like nothing happen and all is forgiven) and the lawyers it's clearly obvious they are hiding everything and trying to close everything off as quick as possible. Mark feel free to chime in before you downvote me again.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@Cortes Elijah

I completely agree with you. I got burned pretty bad with bitcoin, and I feel like an utter fool.

From now on it's only dogecoin for me.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

The only reason paper money has value, is because people believe it to have value.

To be fair, that is true of everything.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@Strangerland: What you said.

I have some investment in Bitcoin, not in what was Mt.gox, nearly did though. As others have said, it's a gamble. Even to invest in a country's currency. It's all a gamble, with differential risks.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Bitcoin always seemed like a pyramid scheme to me.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

@Brandon: Hmmm, no.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Not a pyramid scheme, but I'm personally not yet inclined to deposit my wealth in the trust of cryptographic algorithms that I'd bet most bitcoin users even don't fully understand, let alone myself. There will be more bumps along the way.

But I do like the aspect of bitcoin that has provided an escape hatch for people in Cyrpus and Argentina etc.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

"Ask the Cypriots and the Argentinians about this, they will be able to tell you first hand about how money that was previously thought to have value all of a sudden can have no value."

So the Cypriots and Argentians are now meeting their obligations with Bitcoins or perhaps gold or platinum? Enlighten me.

"That just means more people agree that the paper with some numbers written on it, or the computer screen that shows a bank balance, have value."

About 6 billion more people, and all the world's major institutions, and the global economic and trade system as a whole. Small potatoes, eh? The day that your yen or dollars is rejected by the authorities to meet your major obligations, like taxes, is the day I'm wrong.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

So the Cypriots and Argentians are now meeting their obligations with Bitcoins or perhaps gold or platinum? Enlighten me.

Both countries have seen first hand how the money that people believed had value one day all of a sudden stopped having value the next, when people stopped believing it to have value. The bills were exactly the same, but due to the lack of belief in value, those bills were nearly worthless.

About 6 billion more people, and all the world's major institutions, and the global economic and trade system as a whole. Small potatoes, eh?

It seems we're in agreement. You're just haggling over the number of people. The quantity of people doesn't change the fact that piece of paper with some ink and numbers on it has no inherent value beyond the cost of that paper and ink.

Still disagree? Go get some Chinese RMB and try to use that in other countries. 1.3 Billion people, give or take 1/5 of the world, believe the money to have value, and if you are in China, you can buy food, iPhones, and pay your bills with it. Try to use it anywhere else in the world, and it's worthless. They are the same bills, the only difference is that people in China believe said bills to have value, and people in the rest of the world don't.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

-3? I'm not the one losing money here...

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

"Both countries have seen first hand how the money that people believed had value one day all of a sudden stopped having value the next, when people stopped believing it to have value."

YOu make NO sense. Cyprus uses the Euro. You're saying the Cyrpriots woke up one day to find the Euro had no value??!? Well, if that's true, and if you've got any euro, feel free to transfer it all into my account. I'll find some good uses for this "worthless" paper currency.

"....the only thing that gives these value is people's belief that they have value."

It's not about "beliefs." It's about the hard fact they can't pay their taxes, mortgages, and or meet any of their major, life-supporting obligations without a paper currency. Bitcoins, however, don't come close to fulfilling that role. And as long as it's not issued by a central bank, it will NEVER have that role.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

It's not about "beliefs." It's about the hard fact they can't pay their taxes, mortgages, and or meet any of their major, life-supporting obligations without a paper currency.

Convenient how you completely ignored my China example, which proves that it is exactly about belief. If the receiver does not believe the money the payer is paying with has value, then the payer cannot pay with that money. The paper itself has no inherent value, it is only the belief on both parties that the paper represents a value that can be used.

If you disagree, go try to buy someone's last water in the middle of the desert. See how far that gets you.

Bitcoins, however, don't come close to fulfilling that role. And as long as it's not issued by a central bank, it will NEVER have that role.

Where have I ever claimed it would? This is a strawman. You ignore the fact that there are a significant number of people out there who do believe bitcoin to have value, and therefore it does. You can buy cars and even homes with bitcoin, as well as a significant number of other things, because both the buyer and seller believe the bitcoin to have value. And since you can convert those bitcoins to cash - which you believe to have value - the value attributed to bitcoin can be used to do all the things you have described.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

The Cypriots etc woke up one day and they could not get their money out of the bank because it did not exist until they gave the banks some more digital money not real money. Time to think very carefully about it Jefflee. Central banks are private companies and are the facilitators of national debt. Buy govt bonds and you buy a countries debt. The secure money system most people trust is based on debt and one day it crash will make every one forget about bit coin.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

So the Cypriots and Argentians are now meeting their obligations with Bitcoins or perhaps gold or platinum? Enlighten me.

At the time I recall reading news about some enterprising people in those places using Bitcoin to evade the capital controls that had been imposed upon them by their governments.

You're saying the Cyrpriots woke up one day to find the Euro had no value??!?

Some Cypriot depositors took a haircut, but the lot of them had access to their bank accounts severely restricted.

Well, if that's true, and if you've got any euro, feel free to transfer it all into my account.

Not an option with government controlled money, when capital controls are imposed as was done in Cyprus.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

"Bitcoin investors"

Gamblers.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

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