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Automakers face a threat to EV sales: Slow charging times

18 Comments
By TOM KRISHER

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18 Comments
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They should have made the battery packs as slide-out replaceables.

Service stations could switch from selling petrol or diesel to swopping out batteries for fully charged ones.

That would be a little more of a task than switching a couple of AA cells, but with standardised batteries (and they really should have standardised batteries, because it has worked really well with small batteries for decades), it would be do-able.

Don't these industries ever plan ahead?

4 ( +7 / -3 )

There are a number of reasons why many consumers are leary :

1). Short range per charge

2). Long charging time (compared to fuel fill-up)

3). High up-front cost

4). Rapid tire wear due to the much heavier weight

5). Range reduction when using ancillaries such as heater and air conditioner

6). Relatively short usable service life due to rapid battery life degradation

This article overlooks the fact that rapid charging decreases the charging capacity as well as shortens the battery life(physics and chemistry) . Once the battery has degraded, the cost of replacement is prohibitive.

Overall, these make an EV not practical for the average median or lower income level buyers. The government subsidies to increase the sales of EVs benefit the wealthier class who can actually afford to buy one with the aid of the taxpayers.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Battery packs in hybrid and electric cars are a money grab scam!

No automaker will just change the no performing cell ( battery packs have dozens of individual cells)

If just one cell malfunctions the car will not start even though it can easily function on the rest.

The car makers will only offer a new full battery pack even though just a quick test can determine the one malfunctioning cell that cell could be replaced at a fraction of the cost of a new battery pack.

I had this problem with my used Prius and a guy in Chiba used a recycled cell to repair my battery pack.

Toyota wanted ¥300,000 or 500,000 ( I can't remember the exact amount) to change the battery pack.

This guy replaced one cell for ¥25,000 labour included and it has worked no problems for 3 years now.

The problem was getting the car to him. Luckily I had a friend with the equipment to tow it there.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The Hyundai, with 300 miles of range, can go from a 10% charge to 80% in just 18 minutes

These figures are the absolute best case scenario, acheived in a lab and under specific conditions on a closed track. The way they cite these figures without mentioning the massive caveat along with it sounds like a paid ad for Hyundai (again...). Laughable. In the real world it's actually 200 miles and 30 mins.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

The new EVs all go over 320 KMS, so that handles most of the range worries. An at home charger is good enough for almost all driving, since most daily driving is much less than 320 KMS. Where I live, fast chargers are readily available at many places. Talked to a young man who had just driven his Chevy EV home from college, over 300 KMS away. Although he could have driven home on just the one charge, he stopped and charged up while he had a bite to eat.

The new generation of batteries is supposed to be cheaper, and last over 100,000 miles.

As for battery weight, my Google search says that the Mustang EV weighs about 500 pounds more than the Ford Edge. That seems acceptable to me, given the 300+ mile range of the Mustang EV.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

so that handles most of the range worries. An at home charger is good enough

And who has at home charging?

Only people that have a private parking on their own property, which eliminates most of those in cities like Tokyo, Osaka, London, Paris, New York, Toronto, Berlin, etc... Street parking is a very big part of owning a car in North America, in Japan and most of the major cities in Europe rental Parking is more common and No they don't have power outlets!

1 ( +1 / -0 )

They should have made the battery packs as slide-out replaceables.

Each company has proprietary battery technology, especially Tesla. It would be very difficult for a shop to stock every battery necessary for every electric car. Pity the family with a well kept older model that is otherwise in great condition but the shops no longer carry batteries for.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

First GBR48 time to do your research; if you think that is the answer suggest to your Government they partner with Chinese firm #NIO and two; try supporting Japan by recommendation for electrifying all vehicle by 2025 by HYBRIDOLOGY using only 2kwh NiMH per car, while lasting long long time and going 60mpg, that’s the best way forward; follow the lead of PRIUS.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

They should have made the battery packs as slide-out replaceables.

Electric scooters like Gogoro already have this and it works a charm. Just slide the battery out, put it in the charging rack with the others, and pop in a new one and you're off to the races again.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The dealership will simply swap batteries out with refurbished or new iems (

Nope!

Unless things have changed no dealer offers a refurbished option.

It is new or nothing.

As for another 10 years not a chance, these cars are not built to last 20 years.

A refurbished from a non dealer will cost ¥150,000 or more.

This "we don't sell refurbished" attitude was recently front and centre in North America over Nissan Leaf owners not even being able to get new replacement due to low or no stock and Nissan refusing to permit refurbished at dealership.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Ideal scenario for people with country homes and off-street parking. Trickle charge at home overnight, and at the office during the day. Most are used to this pattern already, and very rarely use the expensive fast chargers along the highway.

For urban dwellers who park on the street with no guarantee of a socket, I'm putting my money on hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. Freedom of movement, or there will be as more hydrogen stations are opened.

Yes, I know that neither system is perfect, but we are adapting, and time, place and opportunity rule in this brave new world.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Charge at home overnight will give you a full battery.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

For all you kids living in big cities with temperate climates, I have a couple of things for you to chew on. In the high plains, the high desert and Great Basin regions, winters are long and very very cold. The distances between towns can be 100 - 200 km with no services of any kind in between. Most of these little towns are not equipped to charge cars. Tesla has some charging stations but only Teslas can use them. Battery powered cars use up more than half their charge just keeping the batteries warm. When the snow flies most places require cars and trucks to use chains, which restrict speeds to under 65 kph. That means it takes a lot longer to get places and uses up batteries very fast keeping them warm. Driving range falls to a point that some destinations are simply too far apart for an electric car in the winter. For these areas hydrogen or amonia fuel is probably the only fuels practicable. Google Map US 6 between Tonopah and Ely for an example of the kind of driving I am talking about. Elevations range from 1800 - 2300 meters on the road surface. Mountains on either side and it can snow into late May to early June.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

If you continue north and east on US 6, there are no towns between Ely Nevada and Vernon Utah. There is a little casino and gas station at Border, literally on the Utah/Nevada border but no charging stations. 520km of nothing. Good luck with your electric car summer or winter.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

A solution was proposed years ago by a coalition of tech experts and environmental groups.

A uniform battery pack in all cars that can be swapped automatically by just driving in stopping over a automated service spot the machine extracts the depleted battery inserts a fully charged one evaluates remaining power of the extracted battery make a quick calculation and charges for the difference between the fully charged and depleted/partially depleted.

The car is in and out in a few minutes with a full charge.

But automakers especially Tesla rejected the idea, instead going with building their own charging stations most of Tesla's only charge Tesla cars and require a Tesla charge account.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Trickle charge at home will get you just enough power to get you to a fast charging station...

I think it's time to make the move to nuclear-powered vehicles. Japan has proven that nuclear power is safe and cost efficient.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

AntiquesavingJune 11  05:09 pm JST

The dealership will simply swap batteries out with refurbished or new iems (

Nope! etc...

........

Ok, leaving the refurbished battery talk out of it, you calling Toyota's method a scam is still wrong, for the reasons I put in my reply. I'm not surprised you didn't acknowledge or refute any of that because it proves your claim is just the cries from someone not financially capable of maintaining the vehicle they own. Can't afford to replace hybrid batteries on a (well) used hybrid vehicle? Then don't get a hybrid....

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

AntiquesavingToday  12:31 pm JST

Battery packs in hybrid and electric cars are a money grab scam!......

No it is not.

While I agree with the whole situation you presented from the owner's point of view concening "saving money", you neglected to mention Toyota's reason for not offering individual cell replacement: You end up with one good new cell and the rest in used condition. Even if after the repair the tests show that the battery is healthy, they cannot guarantee the length of life of the battery because of the old cells that remain. This is the literal demonstration of 'kicking the can down the road'.

The dealership will simply swap batteries out with refurbished or new iems (depending on what you pay for, both are fine) and not replace the faulty cell themselves. The batteries with faulty cells are sent back to the OEM for refurbishment and resold as such. By having just the faulty cell replaced may be cheaper however you now have mismatched cells, one new, and the rest with considerable mileage on them. This may be fine for the time being however you will no doubt have to change others as time goes on, repeating the whole process.

Toyota's method is a "one stop" solution that adds a further 10 years life to the refurbished (or new) battery. For most people this is the best option, both for battery longevity and vehicle resale value.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

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