China retail sales growth slows, falling below forecasts

Although they won't admit it in public, China's economy is in a state of decline and the future doesn't look bright. There is no good domestic news coming out of China. The communist government has overextended itself and the national debt has reached a borderline.

China’s economy is one BIG lie… the whole thing is collapsing…

Also the free world is waking up and walking out of China!!!

I’m sure Russia will help them, the ruble is currently One Penny to the Dollar!! Lol lol

Seems the great Emperor Xi isn't as great as he thinks he is.

Before he came to power, China was on the up. Now, with low growth, low fertility, high unemployment, high debt, a collapsing property market, a disillusioned populace (lying flat, letting it rot, etc.), and international opprobrium/decoupling due to his aggressive/inhumane policies, China is very much on the down.

China will continue to be "relatively" important due to its size, but the money and attention are now firmly moving to India and SE Asia. Xi only has himself to blame.

The official economic figures put out by the CCP are completely bogus. There has been an almost complete collapse in business activity, and thousands of them have moved out of China due to their new laws. Couple this with the fact that every Chinese province is now so deeply in debt, mainly due to corruption from within, they are imposing wage cut backs on all their staff of up to 50%.......but this does not affect the leading officials. Then there is the ongoing disaster from the rain and storms and the release of flood water from damns and the complete flooding of some provinces due to this water being deliberately made to swallow whole towns and villages in order to keep Beijing and Shanghai safer. And the response from the CCP to their peoples suffering...Zero. China might regain some economic power in the future, but most companies will continue to avoid it because of its haphazard government.

Hang on a minute, what about all the knowledgeable posters who continue to say China will become the number one economy in the world soon and the US is stagnating? They all assure us America is finished and China is the future. Well it seems they are all wrong and China, who is ruled by people who honestly do not understand economics at all, is the one on the cusp of collapse while America is rejuvenating.

China has so many issues beyond its control that is does not know what to do except perhaps start a war, which people say is good for business. But if it goes to war with the wrong people its external supplies will dry up, which would be bad for business. What to do.

Perhaps the best thing China could do would be to have the CCP step aside and allow ROC to resume its rule over the Chinese mainland, as Taiwan has none of China;s problems and understands the mechanics of economy and capitalism in a way the CCP does not.

Large chains are already stocking Indian, Indonesian, Bangladeshi, Thai goods that used to be sourced from China. I went and purchased some new tops and none was made in China, not one. A big change from only a couple of years ago when the shops only had goods from China.

China is failing thanks to Xi and his cronies. Even Japan could retake the mantle of second biggest economy if it plays its cards right. Working with the world instead of against it is key. Cooperation internationally beats anything else for improving a nation. China has failed that test.

China is fast becoming a failed-state - anyone with any sense (and lots of cash / assets) would do well to leave whilst it's still possible.

It's also an unashamedly cruel state - just take a look at their bear-bile farms, and their tiger farms; the depravity is utterly horrendous, so much ignorance and stupidity, and the illegal wildlife trade is now the 4th largest worldwide crime, after guns, drugs and human-trafficking.

And what's the monolithic deceitful CCP doing about it ?? Try a big fat Zero.

Corruption + Greed = ERUPTION!

WOW! For many decades now these people have been saying the doom and groom about China. They use the tainted views to look at China in the Western ways, but China has a controlled economy and the Chinese tend to be conservative. When the economy is in the leap and bound, they would say it is so mediocre, they tend to hide their rosy sides in order to make these people think otherwise. Think about it, Chinese government could just give money away like in the West to boost the economy and increase inflation, but they didn’t do it because that would be a short-term gain and long-term pain. They didn’t get involved in wars and didn’t interfere with other countries internal affairs so they only do their own things well. They didn’t even want to be called a developed country. This proves that they do more thinking in the long term, every move they made they thought it through and through. China will be the number one economy soon, but maybe it’s already become number one.

flowersToday  02:53 am JST

Think about it, Chinese government could just give money away like in the West to boost the economy and increase inflation, but they didn’t do it because that would be a short-term gain and long-term pain.

What? I realize China is jealous of the US reserve currency status, but the latter does still have to pay interest on its debt. Also the Republicans put a stop to any sort of spending (which was actually necessary spending). Also all those fancy railways and airports in China didn't happen from the private sector.

They didn’t get involved in wars and didn’t interfere with other countries internal affairs so they only do their own things well.

Yeah, unless it comes to Korea and Taiwan, they are perfectly peaceful. Oh and except for their no principles foreign policy propping up evil regimes.

They didn’t even want to be called a developed country.

Yes, they want to be excluded from any sort of obligations for tackling climate change. They would probably even take a payout, too, if they could.

This proves that they do more thinking in the long term, every move they made they thought it through and through.

Doesn't help when they are also open to rent seeking and corruption.

China will be the number one economy soon, but maybe it’s already become number one.

I hope they are satisfied with the medal.

China is fast becoming a failed-state

Retail sales slow and China as a country fails and the economy of trillions of dollars collapses?

I am guessing Economics is not a subject taught in secondary schools in the US.

A US college student chooses Economics as her major but couldn’t do the algebra or calculus and changed her major after the semester. We are not talking graduate school here.

*Well it seems they are all wrong and China, who is ruled by people who honestly do not understand economics at all*

The article is on retail sales. If gdp is only measured by retail sales, we still couldn’t draw that conclusion.

The article says retail sales growth. Growth means people are buying more in China.

As for the GDP. The Chinese economy grows $1 trillion. The U.S. on the other hand grows $500 billion a year.

There seems to be a festival of exaggeration here and everyone is all wadded up but based on this, the conclusion is not the U.S. is finished or China is done.

Economically China is a giant not just because of the $18 trillion GDP but because of an industrial output that exceeds US,UK and Europe combined.

And it is the US, UK, and EU that are demanding these products. These countries are helping the Chinese economy grow just like the retail shoppers in China.

U.S. gdp growth rate for 2022 was 2.06%, a 3.88% decline from 2021. 

This means the U.S. gdp is growing. Who would say based on that the US is finished?

US gdp growth slows. Falling below previous year marks.

A headline like this though might make you think so.

“What? I realize China is jealous of the US reserve currency status, but the latter does still have to pay interest on its debt.”

The US reserve currency status is being used to control others, and you are right the US still has to pay interest on its debt which is piling up higher and higher at the expense of developing countries.

“Yeah, unless it comes to Korea and Taiwan, they are perfectly peaceful. Oh and except for their no principles foreign policy propping up evil regimes.”

I’ve never heard of China “propping up evil regimes.” Can you elaborate on that? Maybe you are confused with the US.

“Yes, they want to be excluded from any sort of obligations for tackling climate change. They would probably even take a payout, too, if they could.”

Every developing country is aiming to be a developed country. I heard some people claimed that China was successful because of the Western corporations setting up factories there, so in this case we should blame the Western countries then. Also, Western countries have been ruining the planet longer than China did. “Payout?” who doesn’t like “pay out”?

“Doesn't help when they are also open to rent seeking and corruption.”

Don’t be naïve to think that we are living in the world without “rent seeking and corruption.” These terms are well developed and utilized in the West. Why do you think the US large corporations have been so successful, it’s because they bred other countries dried. If it is not because of Chinese culture that emphasize hard-working and savings, Chinese people would still be struggling and poor.

“I hope they are satisfied with the medal.”

Oh, I heard they didn’t even want to be number one. It is not yet the time to claim the title because they want to wait until no more poverty and Chinese people are happy and healthy.

China on Tuesday released weaker than expected economic data, with slowing retail sales growth pointing to shaky consumer confidence in the world's second-largest economy.

The world's second-largest economy only grew 0.8 percent between the first and second quarters of 2023, according to official figures.

Data with Chinese characteristics /:

I’ve never heard of China “propping up evil regimes.” Can you elaborate on that? Maybe you are confused with the US.

Myanmar and North Korea come immediately to mind. China supplied a nuclear weapons design and some fissile to Pakistan and props that miserable nation up too. China has a ballistic missile joint venture in Saudi Arabia and assists the Turks with their ballistic missile program. It looks like they are going to vouchsafe the Sogavare regime in Guadalcanal as he ignores the constitutionally required election date knowing Chinese police and soldiers will now protect him.

Oh and except for their no principles foreign policy propping up evil regimes.”I’ve never heard of China “propping up evil regimes.” Can you elaborate on that? Maybe you are confused with the US.

Also propping up Russia and it's mercenaries all over the world. And Iran as well.

China “Propping up evil regimes”

Desert Tortoise / TaiwanIsNotChina, you guys should do better than that. China propping up Myanmar, North Korea, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Russia, and Iran? The list seemed to be limited, doesn’t it? Those countries all have their own sovereignty and national interests, sometimes they listened to China and sometimes they don’t. Why do you think that they are evil regimes? When they don’t go along with the US, they suddenly become “evil regimes,” is that right? I can give you an example of evil regimes, many years Vietnam was at war with the US and many Vietnamese were killed, Vietnam was labeled “evil regime” for so many years. But now do you hear the US say bad things about Vietnam? What would cause the change in attitude there? Vietnam is still a communist country and limited freedom. All because the US is trying to suppress China by using Vietnam, the US evil intention is quite clear.

flowersToday 12:49 am JST

China “Propping up evil regimes”

Desert Tortoise / TaiwanIsNotChina, you guys should do better than that. China propping up Myanmar, North Korea, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Russia, and Iran? The list seemed to be limited, doesn’t it? Those countries all have their own sovereignty and national interests, sometimes they listened to China and sometimes they don’t. Why do you think that they are evil regimes?

When they are the top executors in the world with appalling human rights records, that makes them evil regimes. China included.

I can give you an example of evil regimes, many years Vietnam was at war with the US and many Vietnamese were killed, Vietnam was labeled “evil regime” for so many years. But now do you hear the US say bad things about Vietnam? What would cause the change in attitude there? Vietnam is still a communist country and limited freedom. All because the US is trying to suppress China by using Vietnam, the US evil intention is quite clear.

Yes, the enemy of my enemy is my friend and with a 1.4 billion pound gorilla like China as your enemy, the US needs all of the "allies" it can get. At least Vietnam is staying within their borders.

“Appalling human rights records” according to whom? It’s become a mode of suppression. No countries other than the West are saying China has human rights issue. China lifted over 700 million people out of poverty, and what did the West say about that? The US killed over a million of its own citizens over preventable disease, gun violence, drug addiction, and racial discrimination just to say a few, those are human rights issues.

“Yes, the enemy of my enemy is my friend and with a 1.4 billion pound gorilla like China as your enemy, the US needs all of the "allies" it can get. At least Vietnam is staying within their borders.”

So, you admitted that the US is an evil regime that will do whatever it takes to get rid of the next rising star. “Democracy” and “freedom” are meaningless, it’s the geopolitics that matters. That's why China only cares to become friends and partners, not "allies".

flowersToday 01:59 am JST

“Appalling human rights records” according to whom? It’s become a mode of suppression. No countries other than the West are saying China has human rights issue. China lifted over 700 million people out of poverty, and what did the West say about that?

That's great and all but we're generally talking about so called "negative" rights, i.e. preventing the government from doing horrendous things to you like executing you without a fair trial. Haiti is not generally considered a human rights violator because it is poor.

The US killed over a million of its own citizens over preventable disease, gun violence, drug addiction, and racial discrimination just to say a few, those are human rights issues.

Not by any reasonable standard. Lax laws, particularly when not over violent crime are not a human rights issue. Gun violence maybe.

racial discrimination

You have to have sizable visible minorities in your country to speak about a country's racial policies.

“Yes, the enemy of my enemy is my friend and with a 1.4 billion pound gorilla like China as your enemy, the US needs all of the "allies" it can get. At least Vietnam is staying within their borders.”

So, you admitted that the US is an evil regime that will do whatever it takes to get rid of the next rising star. “Democracy” and “freedom” are meaningless, it’s the geopolitics that matters. That's why China only cares to become friends and partners, not "allies".

Democracy and freedom aren't meaningless. Vietnam is not in the Quad, nor are they a significant weapons purchaser from the US. Democracies aren't going to ignore China's illegal attempt to control the South China Sea just to check some purity box for you. Any advantage to prevent that will be secured.

“That's great and all but we're generally talking about so called "negative" rights, i.e. preventing the government from doing horrendous things to you like executing you without a fair trial. Haiti is not generally considered a human rights violator because it is poor.”

So, “negative” human rights and not “positive” ones, really hypocritical. As you said “doing horrendous things,” China did none of those, but the US did plenty. For examples,  sending troops to capture and kill people in another country or using drone to kill the opponents. All these terrorist crises were created by the US just to serve its military power, think about it without the US, the world would be a lot more peaceful. By the way, “poverty” is not an excuse to abuse human rights.

“Not by any reasonable standard. Lax laws, particularly when not over violent crime are not a human rights issue. Gun violence maybe.”

Note that “laws” are created by human to serve human, but human rights should be above all “laws.” The US created all kinds of laws for self-interests and ignored the interests of other countries. Politics in the US has reached the critical point, domestic problems become unsolvable so put the blame on China. 

“You have to have sizable visible minorities in your country to speak about a country's racial policies.”

Singapore has “sizable visible minorities,” but they all live in peace and harmony, for an example. In the US racial discrimination has become unbearable. You can get killed just to walk on the street in certain areas.

“Democracy and freedom aren't meaningless. Vietnam is not in the Quad, nor are they a significant weapons purchaser from the US. Democracies aren't going to ignore China's illegal attempt to control the South China Sea just to check some purity box for you. Any advantage to prevent that will be secured.”

Vietnam cannot be in the Quad nor can they purchase advanced weapons from the US, but the US tries to create conflicts with China. South China Sea is China's back yard, so it’s deserved to be peaceful and prosperous.