Chinese electric vehicle brands expand to global markets

Furukawa-san's car looks nice and seems to perform well. But I wonder how the suspension, upholstery, wheels, gaskets, etc. will be holding up after 50,000 km and how happy he'll be with it once the warranty runs out.

Only Tesla share holders are scared, Elon open sourced all their patents wanting other companies to use their technology.

If it is like the made in China products that are on the market now,it will be problematic-the Chinese are known for cheap but not quality

It boggles my mind that 90+% of the Kei cars in Japan are not EV. They generally are just for short trips around town so battery range isn't as much of a concern. It would be a great way to make the air cleaner while also helping decarbonize the economy.

I would not trust the build quality of anything made in China - let alone a car that has to be reliable and protect my family.

These Chinese made vehicles will not sell well in Japan.

It boggles my mind that 90+% of the Kei cars in Japan are not EV. They generally are just for short trips around town so battery range isn't as much of a concern. It would be a great way to make the air cleaner while also helping decarbonize the economy.

Kei's are going hybrid, mine is. But one problem with taking kei's 100% electric, is the cost. Also do you have any idea what it costs to replace a battery in a Prius? I am not talking about the garden store variety, but the one that runs the engine? It's well over ￥100,000 for one.

The appeals of a kei are their low costs, and changing them to electric would defeat that, AND not to mention that they would get heavier than hell for their size too, giving them limited power. Kei's today can easily run at over 100 kph for extended time, no problems what so ever, their bodies are lighter and the "mild" hybrid as they are called, give me at least, over 20 km per liter of gas. Typically keis are crappy on gas mileage, but not the mild hybrids, which have been around now for nearly 7 or 8 years.

Chinese-made vehicles, especially an EV? That's a hard pass from me. Their resale values are so dismal, you just about have to pay dealers to take them off your hands.

One might say Chinese EVs are “exploding” into the market. Spreading like wildfire, and blazing up the sales, red hot.

It boggles my mind that 90+% of the Kei cars in Japan are not EV. They generally are just for short trips around town so battery range isn't as much of a concern. It would be a great way to make the air cleaner while also helping decarbonize the economy.

Many houses and apartments especially don’t have the infrastructure to support EVs. In urban areas it is common to have your parking lot a considerable distance from your house/apartment.

No ONE should be surprised at all since about 1/3 of the parts / components on the car you are driving now are made in China, not to mention your smart phone, clothing, households, hardware, makeup even some foods including your pet food are products of China.

This should wake up call for the dinosaurs in the auto industry, for years they been claiming that combustion engines are clean and friendly until TESLA showed up and proved them wrong. Some makers are still producing diesels as if they live on another planet and to add insult to the injury they even falsify emission data and lied about it for years so they can just earn $$$$.

That was supported by multibillion-dollar subsidies from the ruling Communist Party, which is trying to make China a creator of clean energy and other technologies.

Yet, they are burning more coal than ever before.

I smell infomercial, promotional consideration and deep discounts for such.

I have a very good Hisense Chinese fridge and washing machine. My Japanese-made washing machine broke after five years and it was cheaper to buy a new one.

I may not like Mr. Tweet very much but anything is better than Genocidemobile.

https://www.axios.com/2023/04/28/evs-weight-safety-problems

I definitely can see this becoming a huge problem in the future. What happens if there’s a flood? What about trucks that need to be on the road 24/7? Can’t do that with an EV. There would be a huge disruption in many areas from medical supplies as well as the food chain. These people are making the nations problems worse.

Just this year, Toyota pulled out of a business partnership with BYD because their electric buses were built with some toxic materials in them. BYD electric cars catch fire at an alarming rate (Lots of videos on Youtube). And most importantly, the Chinese themselves prefer to buy Telsa.

So how long until the USG declares them a threat to national security and instructs their allies to ban them?

It's one thing to use China made products when they are simple routine items. But I don't see many Americans (and I suspect other nationalties as well) willing to place their lives and thoseof their families in the hands of a Made in China car. How many of us would feel comfortable flying in a China made airplane? Be it a genuine risk or simply consumer prejudice, either way it's going to have an impact on sales figures.

The one who can benefit from Cars made in China is the Russian consumer, who has had access to other foreign cars cut off because of Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

Then there's the whole poiitical, ideological, strategic, humanitarian issue with buying anything made in China when other alternatives exist.

wallaceToday  07:45 am JST

I have a very good Hisense Chinese fridge and washing machine. My Japanese-made washing machine broke after five years and it was cheaper to buy a new one.

There's the magic word. "Cheaper".

This is how China became an economic powerhouse in just a couple of decades. And become the world's most powerful dictatorship in history.

The reason the Chinese are able to make products at low cost is due to slave labor

I’m not happy to buy products under such a system

https://www.axios.com/2023/04/28/evs-weight-safety-problems

I definitely can see this becoming a huge problem in the future. What happens if there’s a flood?

You're not supposed to drive your car in any amount of standing water. In any event, if it helps you maintain contact with the road it is an advantage!

What about trucks that need to be on the road 24/7? Can’t do that with an EV. There would be a huge disruption in many areas from medical supplies as well as the food chain.

Higher speed chargers are possible. Truckers should be taking breaks anyways.

These people are making the nations problems worse.

If you have anyone under 40 in your family, you are making things worse for them by denying climate change.

I'd rather have the VW Beetle. easy to fix, cheap to operate. nothing electronic, no chips.

Do yourself a favour, buy some roadside land between Nagoya and Tokyo. Set up a restaurant and entertainment area. Install electric car recharging ports. Start branding and upscaling. Be first to the coming-electric vehicle party and retire in 2028.

bass4funk

truck drivers don't drive 24/7. They are not robots.

This is also the reason why I would never buy an EV, the exploitation of Africa, Africans in general is at a very unprecedented level where more kids are involved and putting them in very dangerous situations.

https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/chinas-investments-in-africa-whats-the-real-story/

OssanAmerica

   wallace

   I have a very good Hisense Chinese fridge and washing machine. My Japanese-made washing machine broke after five years and it was cheaper to buy a new one.

> There's the magic word. "Cheaper".

No, the items were not particularly cheaper. After looking at a range of products they were the best value for the money. Many electric goods these days die after 5 years. The washing machine with an inverter was about ¥50,000 and a three-compartment fridge was also about the same and uses less power than my old very small one. We have not been disappointed. Both with a five-year warranty.

I could have found cheaper Japanese ones. My Toshiba washing machine failed after five years. The repair would have cost more than ¥30,000.

Those who casually dismiss Chinese manufacturing as cheap and of poor quality should remember the same used to be said of Japanese and Korean manufactures. I wouldn't sleep on Chinese industry or they may well eat your lunch.

truck drivers don't drive 24/7. They are not robots.

https://www.reviewgeek.com/113904/the-electric-truck-problem-no-one-is-talking-about/#

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/3-reasons-diesel-truck-better-electric-truck/

Vote down environmental comments and up vote comments on China quality...hmmm

bass4funk

the technology and the services in most countries are still early days. You have been anti-EV since the offset. The internal combustion engine is a dinosaur, the future is EV and hydrogen hybrids.

Haha, good luck with that here in the US.

bass4funk

This is also the reason why I would never buy an EV, the exploitation of Africa, Africans in general is at a very unprecedented level where more kids are involved and putting them in very dangerous situations.

There are many millions of exploited people with the extraction of oil, its refinery, transported across the world by low-paid crews and manned by low-paid workers at gas stands.

Then there is the production of the vehicles and all of the materials required to build them.

But I do agree with the problems of lithium extractions in Africa and need to be changed going forward just like the millions of sweatshops across the world.

Ironic that many of the ignorant comments disparaging EVs from China mirror the jingoistic, misguided criticisms that were aimed at Japanese vehicles in the 1970-80s. Like then people will react to the bottom line - overall price.

Change with the times or the times will change you: the fax machine-based economy has missed the boat. Even Tesla is afraid. Don't jump of the knee-jerk Sinophobia bus; take the smarter, more efficient Chinese EV bus, which is top notch, great build quality for a more competitive price.

I am very happy to see this article. Chinese car makers will take the world by surprise. In my recent visit to Shenzhen, I would say that nearly 60% of the cars I saw on the street are fully electric and some of them looks really nice. The cars are easy to identify as they have green plate. Also simple to sample in the road to arrive the conclusion of 60%. All taxi I ride were fully electric. Also, public transport buses are fully electric which cost around few JPY (300 JPY) to ride all Shanghai city with same price.

Shanghai has a policy to provide free plate if the customer buys an electric car. I plate in Shanghai may cost same or more than the car. Tesla is doing a great biz there. The streets are flood with Tesla cars. But the main actor is BYD with stylish sport looking fully electric cars.

@one_consciousness

When I was a kid in the 80s, Japanese products were known as cheap and poor-quality knockoffs of Western products.

A scene from Back To The Future 3(1990) says otherwise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1QcjsjjtRc

There is forced labor in China

Proof for the downvoters

https://humantraffickingsearch.org/resource/forced-prison-labor-in-china-hiding-in-plain-sight/

Happy to buy Chinese products then think again!?!

Osamu Furukawa ripped out of a vantage VW beetle, the gorgeous sounding OHV 8-valve flat-4 to replace with the motor reminiscent of a singer sewing machine.

Akin to sawing the legs off a carved by hand 1700, Tufft  to make a coffee table.

Hooligan.

Osamu Furukawa ripped out of a vantage VW beetle, the gorgeous sounding OHV 8-valve flat-4

I'm a fan of the fabulous VW beetle - probably along with the Corolla the GOAT car - but it's a stretch to call the engine sound "gorgeous". More like the sound one makes when one eats too many beans!

Non-electric scooters and motorbikes from China, Vietnam and India have been doing quite well in overseas markets, and have earned a good reputation for their toughness and reliability. In addition to running costs, safety, reliability, etc., selection of passenger car brands, however, tend to reflect their buyers desire for prestige, i.e., how they wish to be perceived by others. Korean manufacturers have worked very hard to make their cars more appealing, and have been doing very well. A doctor friend of mine in the US picked a KIA over a Subaru recently, and price differential was only one of a number of factors. So I will go out on a limb and predict that if Chinese makers can successfully emulate the Korean business model, it won't take them too long before they carve out a respectable share of the US and other foreign markets.

@Yubaru Good points. I just don't get the impression that the J government is implementing policies such as tax breaks to encourage Japanese consumers to consider EVs, nor is the J government investing in the infrastructure to support EVs. Yet they go on and on about SDGs...

Imagine how cool an electric VW Karmann Gia convertible would be?

I think they know how difficult the US market is. Almost everything in the homes of Americans is made in China, but cars are different. They’d be better off making pickup trucks, but the US has a 50% tariff on pickups to protect Ford.

And they need to be loud, really loud for the US market. And 10’ off the ground. Maybe there could be an app with speakers.

I'd rather have the VW Beetle. easy to fix, cheap to operate. nothing electronic, no chips.

You should be more specific, as like the one in the picture, because your "blanket" statement is far from accurate today. Guess you never heard of the "E" Bug.

A poor-quality vehicle from a dangerous, totalitarian dictatorship, made with forced labor and zero concern for the environment, which will send all your personal data to the CCP? No thanks.

THIS. Especially the part about sending your personal data back to Chinese intelligence. Also rather than electric vehicles I think hydrogen-powered cars and trucks that can be refueled by emergency drone delivery service when you are stuck in rural areas is the future.

Fighto!, My Uncle had 1300 VW, it took a week from 0 to 60 mph but the fun memories, the family picnics. And yes the breakdowns.

That sound, I could listen to his arrival from streets away.

Of course EV's are the future to protect the environment.

The Government of China will never respect level playing field rules. The direct tax subsidies have ceased.

However expect a new set of sweeteners soon.

Many people are brand-loyal and rarely if ever change companies esp with cars. Although recent collaborations and shared design / tech has seen people shop around.

So in Japan getting large numbers of people to switch to unknown Chinese brands would be a monumentous task - but not impossible.

Changing the somewhat outdated viewpoint that Chinese Tech is suss is the greater battle. Korea had a similar problem 30 years ago with it's brands, Hyundai, Kia etc and they never took off in Japan because of the mistaken belief that they were low quality. Other countries didn't have such bias and now these brands are on equal basis with any other. How many Pallisades, Velosters, Genesis70s, i30Ns etc have you seen in Japan?

I gave up on Sharp aqua phones as did my wife after endless troubles. We've been using oppo phones for a number of years now and can't fault them for our use. My techie younger daughter uses a company supplied i -phone for work but wouldn't give up her oppo for daily use. Similarly my Sharp aqua tv was a great disappointment - replacement Sony Bravia is Ex.

So painting all Chinese products with a wide brush as poor in quality is more a failing to understand the revolution that is sweeping the world.

Sure there will be problems with Chinese car brands - as there are with German, French, US, etc brands. I'd never buy a BMW because of friends continuous troubles. But all BMWs are not bad.

And to the point of manufacturing - as others noted, China produces so many parts of so many goods that we use in our daily machines they may as well be called Chinese made.

BYD is gathering much attention in Australia - a notoriously fickle consumer car market often used as a test ground for models - and expect BYD sales to grow rapidly over the coming years. The Atto 3 model is available for A$44,000 and the Dolphin a smaller car will be sold soon at A$40,000. Also they come with an 8yr / 160,000km battery warranty and 6yr / 150,000 car warranty.

I'd hedge my bets and suggest that Chinese EVs will be a common denominator in the EV market from now and in years to come. They will have stiff competition but they won't be shying away from that.

Will I buy one? I doubt it - money reasons - but millions will and most won't be disappointed.

wallaceToday  08:45 am JST

OssanAmerica

   wallace

   I have a very good Hisense Chinese fridge and washing machine. My Japanese-made washing machine broke after five years and it was cheaper to buy a new one.

There's the magic word. "Cheaper".*

No, the items were not particularly cheaper. After looking at a range of products they were the best value for the money. Many electric goods these days die after 5 years. The washing machine with an inverter was about ¥50,000 and a three-compartment fridge was also about the same and uses less power than my old very small one. We have not been disappointed. Both with a five-year warranty.

I could have found cheaper Japanese ones. My Toshiba washing machine failed after five years. The repair would have cost more than ¥30,000.

That's an excessively lengthy explanation that simply confirms you bought the one that was "cheaper". That word does not reflect simpy the tag price, but all the costs connectetd to owning and running it.

There are few, if any, electrical household products made today that are worth the cost of repair, regardless of where they are made. This is due to the marketing model of constant upgrades and revisions that effectively limit the life of the product, requiring the consumer to purchase a "new" product. Have you heard the saying "They don't make 'em like they use to"? On the other hand, some of those "upgrades" have real value, such as using less energy than previous models.

The probability of your Chinese fridge failing soon after your 5 year warranty period is high. And this goes for appliances made anywhere, Japan, US, EU, etc.

There are some confusion on the state of Chinese EVs

1) Chinese price competitiveness : BYD use Lithium Ion Phosphate chemistry which is substantially cheaper than rival Lithium Manganese Cobalt battery types pushed by the Koreans. This cost saving comes at the expense of energy density and charging speed. BYDs take more than twice as long to charge from 15% to 80% as Korean EVs, then go much less on that charge.

2) How Chinese EVs compare to the industry benchmark Korean EVs : I will put a comparison video of BYD's flagship Han vs Hyundai Ioniq6, the most satisfying EV in the US according to the 2023 Consumer Reports owner survey.

BYD Han : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qcWhPyPuOo

Hyundai Ioniq6 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUrfgbOIfTU

The conclusion is that Chinese are still a couple years behind the Koreans in terms of product maturity and performance. The scary thing is that Chinese are still ahead of the Japanese even with that deficiency, and this is why industry observers are writing obituary of Japanese auto industry.

Japan is quickly becoming a post-industrial society whose economy is driven by finance and tourism.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/japans-automakers-have-made-in-china-sales-crisis-2023-05-02/

Japan's automakers have a made-in-China sales crisis

By Daniel Leussink May 2, 20233:04 AM EDT

TOKYO, May 2 (Reuters) - Japan's automakers are facing a sales crisis in China, data shows, as a rapid shift to electric vehicles (EVs) has upended the world's largest auto market and led to a plunge in purchases of gasoline-powered cars.

Total sales of Japanese auto brands in China were down 32% year-on-year in the first quarter, more than double the pace of the overall market contraction, industry data analysed by Reuters showed.

Honda Chief Executive Toshihiro Mibe acknowledged the automaker lagged Chinese rivals in some software technologies.

China's automakers are "further ahead of us than we expected," Mibe told reporters at a presentation in Tokyo focused on Honda's efforts in autonomous driving and services like gaming.

With all due respect to the negative posts here, BYD was invested by Warren Buffett. He sees something in that company like he sees something in Japanese stocks being a safe and secure environment. Nio is a legit company. That guy William Li has comparisons to Elon Musk and Steve Jobs. His cars I saw on videos are sweet and high quality stuff. His Battery As a Service (BAAS) is cool idea for people who cannot afford those things outright. If I could I would highly consider buying one or a LI or XPeng car compared to the American electric vehicles here in the States which are worthless other than Tesla.

@one_consciousness

What are you talking about? Some of the best Japanese products were made the 80s!

Fighto!: "I would not trust the build quality of anything made in China - let alone a car that has to be reliable and protect my family."

Guess you'll stick with the Takada airbags then, eh? Or just other companies that fudge all their safety data. Fact is, Japanese products have shorter and shorter lifespans, are getting more and more expensive, and are just not the quality they used to be, if they even ever were that (again, fudging numbers for decades). Other countries' goods are easily as good if not better now, and are much cheaper in price, but not quality. That is why more and more Japanese companies are having to close out of certain markets. The auto industry will be safe for a little while, but things WILL become more competitive here, especially as the government increases taxes and costs, and no more people are being born or coming into the workforce to help.

"These Chinese made vehicles will not sell well in Japan."

Heard that before... "iPhones won't sell in Japan!", "CostCo will never succeed!" Heck, even in competitive sports the biggest mark of success for a Japanese player is to make it overseas.

@toon12

His Battery As a Service (BAAS) is cool idea for people who cannot afford those things outright. 

NIO's swappable battery is merely a gimmick to tackle long charge time problem of Chinese EV batteries.

It won't sell in the US and EU because Koreans made under 18 minute fast charging for a 200 mile range the industry standard against which all other EVs including Tesla are measured against. Why search for a battery swapping station when you can just fast charge to get 200 mile range in 18 minutes, enough for a bath room and coffee break?

https://youtu.be/uEEBq1AXhJw?t=219

one_consciousnessToday  09:51 am JST

Yes, a lot of the younger generations do not know this.

When I was a kid in the 80s, Japanese products were known as cheap and poor-quality knockoffs of Western products.

Japanese products were known as 'Jp Crp'.

Japanese products, Sony, Panasonic,Nikon, etc were considered the top brands globally in the 1980s.

The image of Made in Japan being garbage was in the 1960s. By 1969 NASA was using Sony monitors and in the 1970s US homes had Trintrons. I know cause I watched all that happen.

My main car is a Suzuki Wagon R anniversary edition around 2 years old.

A hybrid and reliable.

I also own 2 British classics, a Mini and a Jaguar. I enjoy driving at weekends

Both resorted over a number of years as expenses allowed.

I just don't trust EV's yet to ever replace the Suzuki.

BYD's flagship Han is plagued with quality issues and countless are spontaneously combusting on China's roads. Sure, Chinese EVs are growing in numbers but with the reputation of having poor quality, they won't gain traction in the Japanese market where quality-minded consumers will learn and be wary of exploding cars.

Excellent, Chinese cars on the rise !!!..

GO CHINA !!..

he image of Made in Japan being garbage was in the 1960s. By 1969 NASA was using Sony monitors and in the 1970s US homes had Trintrons. I know cause I watched all that happen.

.... and Japanese motorcycles were the thing! I had a Suzuki 200cc and could smoke HDs..... providing the HD rider could get it to start.

Osamu Furukawa has driven lots of Japanese cars for his business converting classic gasoline-powered models to electric.

Assuming he's converting actual classic cars into EVs, I despise people like Furukawa who take classic cars that have inherent historic and sentimental value as they are, and turn them into soulless appliances. If you want an EV, go buy an EV. Don't resto-mod pieces of automotive history and ruin them for the rest of us who appreciate classics for what they are.

The amount of Japanese defenders from MoFA merely proves Samit_Batsu's prediction that Japan will come to fruition.

The vast population of Japan remains hateful against EVs, and it's getting desperate as much as how the Japanese used to wish Americans stopped invading Japan after Pearl Harbor. Japanese realists already wake up and call forwards the EV Revolution in Japan!

I wonder how many of the people badmouthing Chinese workmanship are using a computer or cell phone built in China?

The Government of China cannot, will not, develop the product.

They hedge the technology.

The Government of China have little or no respect for intellectual property.

No respect for...

Well, the Government of China has ignored or undermined all the IPR laws on the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works and the Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights (TRIPS).

Osamu Furukawa stands next to his new BYD ATTO 3 

Osamu Furukawa needs to support Japanese manufactures.

And so Japanese manufactures return the loyalty.

This looks like an ad posing as an article. Why is Ohta hiding his name? Probably an actor they paid pretending to be a buyer. I highly doubt anybody is going to target him for buying a Chinese car.

@Xavier

Unfortunately, you are spot on.

I would argue and argue quite rightly that advocates of Chinese industry have never seen the inside of a prison as neither inmate nor visitor and have scant idea.

So, uphold and buy Chinese goods but don’t deny the pain and suffering endured by those behind bars for the products you so carelessly use..

I'd take the volkswagon!

7 EVs catch fire daily in China, that's over 2500/yr. https://carnewschina.com/2022/04/18/chinese-electric-vehicles-are-on-fire/

Across the USA, 173 EVs total caught on fire in 2022.

I hear Japan doesn't have enough electricity to support EV cars. Especially in the summer with all those aircons consuming power. Maybe if you have a solar panel and a drive way it's ok.

A cheap car made in China, what could possibly go wrong?

Wait until you accidentally back that thing into your mailbox going 2MPH and wind up diving out of a raging inferno covered in battery acid. Hard pass.

Should all be celebrating end of ICE, China's following in Elon Musk's footsteps, far SMARTER than following in Legacy Auto Industry footsteps!

I'd rather work on EV vehicles in China than dirty ICE vehicles in Japan/anywhere, that your question?

If someone gave you the choice of being in a Japanese workplace or prison, or a Xinjiang camp, would you choose Xinjiang?

it's clear China's leading World in EV, what's NOT to like!?

Most of us love no gas stations, clean air, less maintenance, quiet and operational cost savings while helping to reduce our environmental footprint!

Pepsi's CFO stated this year that new TESLA large trucks will reduce Pepsi's trucking CO2 emissions by over 90% once their fleets converted, that's PROGRESS!

On the one hand, I think that it is fantastic that China is making the shift to Electric Vehicles. However, more than 56% of China's electricity is generated from burning coal. An EV that is powered by burning coal does nothing to fight global warming. If and when China makes the shift away from burning coal, that is when its shift towards making and using EVs will be most important,

By comparison with China, here in California about 19% of new car sales last year were electrics, but more than 99.5% of the electricity generated in California does not use coal. The very last coal plant in the state, in San Bernardino, is set to close within the next few years.

Thus, the shift to EVs here in Cali does make a difference in the fight against global warming, unlike what is happening with the Chinese EV market.