Dark clouds over China's economy as zero-COVID, global slowdown bite

Good! May the CCP never recover.

Ass- well said

IMHO, China is going to look at trends like this and say 'we got it right, let's stay the course'.

https://www.theguardian.com/global/2022/oct/06/rising-uk-covid-levels-whats-driving-it-and-what-will-happen-next

I don't know what's happening with the WHO, who has gone pretty quiet all of a sudden at a time when cases, and hospitalisation are rising around the world. It wasn't that long ago it was telling China covid 0 is ineffective.

"China's economy has two major headwinds this year: zero-COVID and property."

And since the anti-covid measures are being used without actual scientific justification (that recognizes as a much better strategy vaccination and other measures to reduce the risk from the infection instead of stopping infections) these two factors are becoming more and more clearly related. Property is driving up discontent, and the zero-covid measures are being weaponized to quash this discontent and solidify the power of the CCP over the Chinese population.

At the end the economy (and human rights, medical attention, livehoods, etc.) suffer under the guise of protecting the population, even if very clear examples exist of the same or even better results being obtained without the unjustified measures being pushed in China.

don't know what's happening with the WHO, who has gone pretty quiet all of a sudden at a time when cases, and hospitalisation are rising around the world

The WHO keeps publishing regular policy briefs and weekly epidemiological reports about the pandemic, it has not gotten silent just because media is not reporting what it is releasing.

The last report on november 9 for example reports a decrease of 15% of the number of cases compared with the previous week. The information is there if it interest you.

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/covid-19-policy-briefs

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/situation-reports

It wasn't that long ago it was telling China covid 0 is ineffective.

I don't think that ever actually happened in real life.

Xi wants to turn back the clock. The CCP prefers a less economic & less progressive China so it can maintain its grip on society.

which contradicts UK (link ^, US (link below), Australia (where some states is about to be raised to higher alert level.

There is no contradiction, global numbers are in the decrease, that does not mean every single place will have the same reduction.

The WHO is not the UKHO nor the AHO, so the information that is still producing are of course of a global scale, if you want to see details about regions, countries, etc. You can simply download the report and read it, the same as everybody that is interested on that data, again absolutely not going siletn.

Also the WHO is not telling the zero covid policy is ineffective, it says it is unsustainable and that protection from the risk after infection is a much more productive strategy that do not require for a country to sacrifice their human rights, access to health services, local economies, etc. etc. to get the pandemic under control. Having more infections do not equals having more health problems.

There is no contradiction

Why not? Major advanced economies seeing a reverse in hospitalisation and infection. They are NOT the only countries either. Perhaps the WHO would like to clarify they now ONLY represents countries where their PR is consistent with data?

Also the WHO is not telling the zero covid policy is ineffective

...so why tell China to stop?

In a briefing Tuesday, WHO Director General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus called on China to rethink its severe covid controls in light of the more transmissible omicron coronavirus variant.

'Unsustainble' is the reason given, not the policy, because of ^.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/05/11/china-tedros-zero-covid-unsustainable-censored/

Having more infections do not equals having more health problems

Are you bending the facts now? My links said increase 'hospitalisation', is that not a health problem?

This is a reversal in trend. Why is it so hard for you, and the WHO to accept past advice is no longer appropriate? Narcissism?

I simply can't believe what I'm reading here, from a poster with a handle relating to 'virus'.

Friends in Shanghai were reporting 'first hand' from the lockdown , sick people were being carted away, with ventilators, dozens of times a week from one street. Yet the WHO told them to stop lockdown and open up.

Now even countries whose population have been innoculated with western vaccines are seeing a reverse in the downward trend (infection and hospitalisation), and the WHO says there's no change in policy advice?

Perhaps the WHO not only represents select countries, but it only represents the young and healthy as well, because I can't see how old and vulnerable people are going to fare from this reversing trend.

I can't see how old and vulnerable people are going to fare from this reversing trend.

Get vaccinated and they will do ok.

I'm not sure if you made it up, or believed a lie, but it's not based in reality.

link above.

“We don’t think that it is sustainable, considering the behavior of the virus and what we anticipate in the future,” he said, adding that the health body had discussed the issue with Chinese experts. “We indicated that the approach will not be sustainable. … A shift would be very important.”

Either it's effective so continue, OR ineffective, change "shift". That's what reported in reality. What's your reality?

BTW, China had no confusion what the reality was. It responded to Tedros, banned him from zweibo etc.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian in a news briefing Wednesday called on Tedros to avoid making “irresponsible” remarks and to view China’s coronavirus policies “objectively.”

So again what's your reality?...anticipating gaslight to continue.

Xi does not care about People's Wealth, he simply wants everyone to suffer what his own Family went through during the Cultural revolution as an act of Revenge.

None of his Government members have any form of Education other than basic Primary schooling.

He himself, is totally uneducated.

Sadly, the rest of China is suffering under his "rule", and a War with Taiwan is now inevitable, as that has been his pledge - we will see that unfold now in the next couple of months.

Xi should be removed in order to save China, and to prevent the World from going into a Global War.

Why not? Major advanced economies seeing a reverse in hospitalisation and infection. They are NOT the only countries either. Perhaps the WHO would like to clarify they now ONLY represents countries where their PR is consistent with data?

Again the data is there, in a global scale the cases are decreasing, you are the one that are only considering specific cases and mistakenly think this can be generalized. According to you if one person becomes a billionare and a billion persons become poor then everybody is better. The WHO do not ONLY take into account some countries, that is you. The WHO takes into account the whole globe.

.so why tell China to stop?

Is there explained, because there are strategies that are much better. Not because of your false argument but by the real ones they used.

'Unsustainble' is the reason given, not the policy, because of ^.

"The reason given" means "because of"

Are you bending the facts now? 

No, I am explaining your false reasoning. If a country have double the infections but half the hospitalizations and one tenth of the deaths because the population is vaccinated then it is doing better. To call your position a "fact" you would need to demonstrate more cases can only means more hospitalizations and more deaths, you have done no such thing. Your examples are NOT the countries that are doing much better than China, just the ones you cherry picked to misrepresent the global situation.

This is a reversal in trend. Why is it so hard for you, and the WHO to accept past advice is no longer appropriate? Narcissism?

Again because your argument makes no sense. If the global trend is of reduction then it will not matter that some countries or regions go in the opposite direction, the global trend is still the same. The data clearly contradicts you, even if you refuse to accept it.

Now even countries whose population have been innoculated with western vaccines are seeing a reverse in the downward trend

Except that according to the data many countries are, including whole regions, so you are demonstrably wrong. What you can say is that not all countries do, but that is not the argument you are using, you are saying that since some countries have higher infections that must mean every country must be the same, which is false.

Perhaps the WHO not only represents select countries, but it only represents the young and healthy as well, because I can't see how old and vulnerable people are going to fare from this reversing trend.

It is you the one trying to make an argument to only consider some countries to decide a global trend, which makes no sense.

BTW, China had no confusion what the reality was. It responded to Tedros, banned him from zweibo etc.

Since China made absolutely no argument against the declarations of the WHO then its reaction is meaningless. Other countries have demonstrated that lockdowns are unnecessary and worse than the alternative (widespread immunization), China has never demonstrated this to be false.

Xi does not care... I really do not understand why the rest of the World doesn't get this....

If you have some significant dependence upon China in your supply chain, then it may already be too late for you to survive a sudden break in that link.

Investors should be demanding to know supply chain dependencies of Companies to be made freely available to all, rather than through paid for services such as Bloomberg - which itself has a significant investment by the CCP to the point of controlling what it says... makes you think....

A slew of lackluster indicators for October show strict and enduring COVID curbs as well as a global slowdown are dragging on China's economy, analysts told AFP, with prospects looking increasingly grim for 2023.

Sounds dismal!

Economists at HSBC said in a note that they "remain constructive on China" and predict more than five percent growth next year.

Oh--this was tucked away at the bottom of the article.

Since China made absolutely no argument against the declarations of the WHO then its reaction is meaningless. Other countries have demonstrated that lockdowns are unnecessary and worse than the alternative (widespread immunization), China has never demonstrated this to be false.

China has been proving the WHO wrong for the last 2 years, as it proves zero covid is the best strategy at preventing infections, with the lowest rate in the world, while keeping its economy stronger than the UK, the US, New Zealand, Australia, etc.

Those countries had recessions, over 1 million covid related deaths, while China is the only country with positive economic growth.

No wonder the WHO is upset. Anyone hanging onto the WHO agency proclamations is on the wrong side of science, according to medical experts.

All the EU countries have positive economic growth.

China has been proving the WHO wrong for the last 2 years

No it has not, because other countries have been able to deal with the pandemic without the lockdowns that you have agreed are unnecessary and produce more damage than what they prevent. Cherry picking countries as if anybody have ever said they are the ones doing better than China is not an argument.

No wonder the WHO is upset. Anyone hanging onto the WHO agency proclamations is on the wrong side of science, according to medical experts.

You mean all those international medical experts only you can see and can never link to? they do not exist.

wallaceToday  10:25 am JST

All the EU countries have positive economic growth.

Every country in the EU is either in a recession or is headed to one, troll.

Most working in and with China have made mistakes in projections and the outlook of the Chinese market. When official figures are reported, the reality is not necessarily worse than it actually is but instead it may not be as bad as it actually is by design. If 3.9% is reported, it could actually be 4.3% rather than 3,6%. This gives fir all kinds of data across the board.

I’ve observed this time and time again in China and Japan. The first time was when a Chinese law school applicant got a 178 on the LSATs but said he only got a 168. The American who got a 168 probably only got a 160.

The culture is different. Americans like to brag and appear strong. The Chinese lie and try to the crouching tiger hidden dragon. Take what their government says with a grain not salt the other way around.

For Trekkie fans, the Chinese are like the Ferengi and should be viewed like that. Their Government is however like the Borg, and we should all be wary.

Since China made absolutely no argument against the declarations of the WHO then its reaction is meaningless. Other countries have demonstrated that lockdowns are unnecessary and worse than the alternative (widespread immunization), China has never demonstrated this to be false.

Totally illogical and shows a lack of understanding of the actual situation.

Other countries had success with the lockdowns but they did not have the guts to stick with it and as a result suffered high infections and deaths, and their economies got crushed.

China has ignored the WHO's incorrect advice and as a result millions of lives were saved, and the economy is the only one in the world to show positive growth. As backed up by global experts and government statistical data. It might be confusing to understand for those not in the industry but facts are facts.

Totally illogical and shows a lack of understanding of the actual situation.

There is no argument from China against the criticism, so the argument is perfectly valid.

Other countries had success with the lockdowns but they did not have the guts to stick with it and as a result suffered high infections and deaths, and their economies got crushed.

False, other countries do not had the need to oppress the population to strengthen the grab of power, so they were free to stop the economic bleed that the lockdowns mean and used better strategies to protect the population, like Sweden, a country you have agreed did better than China.

China has ignored the WHO's incorrect advice and as a result millions of lives were saved

China ignored the guidelines for reporting and containment of the WHO, and because of that covid became a pandemic, as a result millions of lives were lost worldwide. Countries like Sweden have listened to the scientific evidence of the value of vaccines and other measures and because of that they have an appropiate control of the pandemic without having to put their population in misery or letting them die without medical attention as China regularly does with their lockdowns.

It might be confusing to understand for those not in the industry but facts are facts.

Since as usual you have no way to know who is or not in the industry this is just again an excuse instead of an argument, you can make an appeal to your own lack of qualifications, but not about others because you have no way of knowing it. The same as the medical experts you again failed to bring but keep trying to use as argument.

None of his Government members have any form of Education other than basic Primary schooling.

He himself, is totally uneducated.

While I detest Xi Jinping, aka Baby Pingping, I also detest false information. Xi Jinping is a Chemical Engineer. He graduated from Beijing’s Tsinghua University in 1979.

Xi's Deputy General Secretary studied Philosophy at Beijing University followed by  three years teaching at the Qinghai School of Commerce before assuming a long series of party posts.

Xi's First Secretary, Wang Huning, was recommended to enter East China Normal University, then named the Shanghai Normal University, in 1974 to study French. In 1977, he became a cadre of Shanghai Publishing Bureau and engaged in research work at Shanghai Academy of Social Sciences. In 1978, he participated in the Gaokao, and was directly admitted as a postgraduate student in the Department of International Politics of Fudan University due to his excellent performance. He was trained by Wang Bangzuo, then director of the Political Science Teaching and Research Department of Fudan University, and Chen Qiren, obtaining a Master of Laws degree in 1981. He went on to teach at Fudan University becoming the youngest associate professor in China at the time and would later become the Dean of their law school.

I could go on but I think you get the point.

Having said that, CCP ideology prevents the teaching of much world history and much of the political thought we are familiar with. The Age of Reason passed China by and so did much of the writing from that period since it would be highly subversive to CCP control. My Chinese educated electrical engineer wife for example was absolutely convinced that China beat Vietnam in the 1979 SIno-Vietnam war until I showed her documentation otherwise and she is utterly ignorant of the many conflicts in the Middle East or how Israel came to be. She is also adamant that the Tibetans are primitives who are being civilized by the Chinese. These sorts of shortcomings in even a good Chinese education infect their world view and their decision making.