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Elon Musk sells $1.1 billion in Tesla shares

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So he sold 930000 shares at a few percentages less but bought 2.15 million at a tenth of the price.

The article'stone would make you think he lost money while he just earned billions again.

There is no significance of all this for him compare to our "miserable" life.

If money goes toward progress and he pays well his employees at low entry, ok for me.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

This guy is great. Hope he earns a trillion---and keeps it all.

-10 ( +5 / -15 )

He will have to pay 20% capital gains tax which is a lot less than 37% income tax.

Of course, 20% of billions of dollars is way more more than one might pay as tax on standard income. And anyone else selling Tesla shares will also be paying a lot of tax too.

If only the Japanese economy has some golden egg laying geese too.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Actually, the 2 million shares he bough are worth north of $2 billion. Tesla is trading over $1000 a share these days. Nice option to have...

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Just cashing out some.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

But with capital gains, you only pay taxes on the gains, in other words, the difference between what he paid for the stock, and the price he sold them at.

He sells the stock for $1.1 billion but he's not paying 20% of that.

He's probably paying just a tad less.

Heard he acquired his stocks at least than half a dollar per

1 ( +1 / -0 )

It's pretty funny seeing the poors complain about his success and smarts. Then again, it's hardly surprising given how many of you out there hate to see anyone being obviously more successful than you are!

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Elon Musk is a forward thinker.

Using the internet’s power to establish a consensus has just earned him the respect of millions.

Imagine if politicians were as radical?

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

ian

paying capital gains is 17% less than paying income taxes.

Yes.

But I was referring to just the difference in capital gains tax if calculated using the whole sale price and using just actual capital gains.

It will not be calculated from 1.1 billion but the figure is still near that much

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Was basically just commenting on this:

> He sells the stock for $1.1 billion but he's not paying 20% of that.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I suspect Musk is going to face some action from the SEC over this. His tweet didn't just affect the value of his shares, it affected the value of Tesla shares held by everyone else too.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I suspect Musk is going to face some action from the SEC over this. His tweet didn't just affect the value of his shares, it affected the value of Tesla shares held by everyone else too.

I'm actually curious about what would be done and/or what can be done and /or what should be done about something like this.

It's one thing to talk about crypto, another thing altogether to talk about stocks especially your own that you're actively trading.

I think the whole informing the public softened the impact but still

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I'm actually curious about what would be done and/or what can be done and /or what should be done about something like this.

It's one thing to talk about crypto, another thing altogether to talk about stocks especially your own that you're actively trading.

I think the whole informing the public softened the impact but still

Actually this has happened before with Musk. The SEC brought an action against him a couple of years ago over a different tweet he made that affected the stock price (he tweeted that he was going to take Tesla private, which caused a big spike in the stock price, but later turned out he was just BSing). They reached a settlement in which he paid a fine, resigned as chairman (but not CEO) and he committed to having all his tweets about the company vetted by lawyers before posting him. Pretty sure he violated that last term in this case.

I wonder if they might do something similar this time.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

kurisupisuToday  04:22 pm JST

Elon Musk is a forward thinker.

Using the internet’s power to establish a consensus has just earned him the respect of millions.

Someone didn't fully read.

However the sell was put in motion on September 14, according to documents filed Wednesday, meaning it was not spurred by the survey's outcome.

Imagine if politicians were as radical?

So I reality he did exactly what a politician does, puts out a fake "I will listen to my base" but in reality did what he was planning all along and his fanboys/girls fell for it.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Musk had reached a point were he had to sell some stock to pay his debts. He will have to pay 20% capital gains tax which is a lot less than 37% income tax.

He’ll make that back in a month or so, no worries.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Really, don't you know? Musk can earn that in less than a day. He can make $36 billion in a day.

How world's richest person Elon Musk made $36 billion in a day 

Now worth about $300 billion.

Well, with other investments and access to other projects where he has money tied up, he will be ok, he will never be poor, won't happen and that wealth does fluctuate depending on various factors

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Income tax would be about $370 million.

And which company pays 1 billion dollars in cold hard cash salary?

If you want salty income taxed at the capital gains rate then sure, cut the income tax rate to 20% as well to keep it fair.

The problem of the super-rich is they are not paying a fair share of taxes.

The problem of those who make such claims, is facts.

In the US the top 1% of income earners pay 40% of the taxes, for example. “Fair share” is just a declaration of greed and envy. I find it disgusting and offensive.

Musk is going to pay plenty of tax for his realized gains here, according to the same rules as apply for everyone. That’s fair.

His tweet didn't just affect the value of his shares

He didn’t know what the result of the poll was going to be though.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

That has been fact-checked and proven wrong.

Thats nonsense, this is figures from the IRS. It can’t be proved “wrong”. What you quote is an article that tries to put a reverse spin on it, but the data is what the data is.

The top 1% pay 40% of the income tax revenues according to the IRS; this is what it is.

information showing how billionaires … pay little in income tax compared to their massive wealth — sometimes, even nothing.

Musk tweeted as much himself last weekend, that’s obvious. If he doesn’t get paid a salary then of course he won’t pay income tax because a rate times 0 is 0.

Where is it written that people must only obtain wealth through salaries income payments?

Or you want to demand that Tesla pay Musk an income so that it can be taxed?

How are the huge sums of cap gains tax he’ll pay insufficient?

As for Tesla’s employees, who are employees because of Musk, you can rest assured they pay income tax because that is the way they agreed to be compensated and that’s something the tax system taxes.

Look, if a wealthy person works for nothing and consumes frugally, sorry but you are just going to have to bear it. Their contribution to society is significant in the amounts of employment they help create and the tax the do pay when they realize cap gains etc.

And if the rich are buying lots of stuff, having a consumption tax is a way to tax them, and then cut income tax rates to compensate.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Thats nonsense, this is figures from the IRS. It can’t be proved “wrong”. What you quote is an article that tries to put a reverse spin on it, but the data is what the data is.

The top 1% pay 40% of the income tax revenues according to the IRS; this is what it is.

Yup, those figures are true. But they are limited if you want an accurate picture of how much of the overall tax burden, rather than just federal income tax, the wealthy pay.

The study cited in the article he quoted isn’t just “spin”, it provides additional data on how much the wealthy pay in state and local taxes to give a fuller picture. Its a fact that the top 1% of earners earn over 20% of total income and pay roughly 24% of total taxes paid.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

The problem isn't taxes, it's untethered government spending.

0-$30,000 income - no taxes

$30,000 to $40,000 - 10% tax on excess over $30,000

$40,000 to $80,000 - 15% on excess over $30,000

$80,000 + 20% tax on excess over $30,000.

20% Capital Gains tax

No deductions. No deductions for anything, including losses, mortgage interest, nothing, nada, zip.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The top 1% pay 40% of the income tax revenues according to the IRS; this is what it is.

Of course, they do, how could they not and for the life of me, I don't understand why the left continues to perpetuate that misinformation.

Look, if a wealthy person works for nothing and consumes frugally, sorry but you are just going to have to bear it. Their contribution to society is significant in the amounts of employment they help create and the tax the do pay when they realize cap gains etc.

Exactly, and the left instead of taking someone else's money, how about lowering taxes and creating and encouraging more revenue, creating better job opportunities, employing and training more people that don't want to go to college for high paying blue-collar jobs, allowing for better training, focus on jobs that make a difference where the society can benefit from, liberals arts won't cut it. Encouraging kids to become Entrepreneur is always the better way to go. Create more leaders and stop punishing success.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

America’s super-rich pay almost no income tax why using the capital gains system instead.

What a bunch of Bull!

https://howmuch.net/articles/high-income-americans-pay-majority-of-federal-taxes

As this data visualization clearly shows, the top 1% pay much more than taxpayers of any other income level.It is almost double as much as the next bracket of top incomes: those earning the 2% to 5% of the highest wages in America pay 20.5% of all Federal Income Tax. Or in absolute terms: $281.51 billion.

It is also almost four times as much as those whose incomes range from the top 6% to 10%. They pay 10.9% of Federal Income Tax, or $149.97 billion.

Those who earn between the top 10% to 25% of wages in America are a much larger group; yet their collective input into the Federal Income Tax is only half as much again as the previous band: 15.9% (i.e. $281.55 billion).

Those with an income anywhere between the top 25% and 50% only pay 10.5% of all Federal Income Tax, no more than $143.95 billion.

The entire bottom half of wage earners pays only 2.8% of its income in taxes into the federal coffers. In actual money terms: $37.74 billion. That is more than 14 times less than the top 1%, even though this group is 50 times as numerous.

These figures show the level of contribution to total income tax revenues by the various income levels. The Tax Foundation also provided figures for what that means for individual taxpayers in each group.

For the richest 1%, the effective average tax rate is 27.2%, meaning that well over a quarter of their income goes into federal coffers.

For the next group (up to 5%), the fiscal pressure is just below a quarter: 23.6%.

Taxpayers with incomes in the top 10% part with just over one-fifth (21.3%) of their earnings.

Those in the top 25% bracket contribute 17.8% of their annual income.

Even those up to the 50th percentile on average still give 15.5% of their annual income to Uncle Sam.

Because about 45% of American households make too little to pay any Federal Income Tax, the average percentage for the bottom half of incomes is dramatically lower – the average Federal Income tax level for this group is just 3.5%.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

The top 1% are all those earning more than about $500,000 in income. People earning $500,000 are not the super-rich.

But rich enough,

They also tend to be earning income and paying income tax.

As the top 1% do.

What do the 600+ billionaires pay and the top 24 richest?

Why all the hate? What do you want? All of their income? You just want a band-aid and a short-term fix because that is what income redistribution does. It's a temporary fix.

You make no mention of the super rich not taking a salary or greatly reduced salary and take it in stock instead? To avoid the higher rates of income tax.

Good for them, don't blame them one bit.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

zichiToday  12:49 am JST

How do you explain away the richest 25 Americans pay a true tax rate of 3.4%? From 2010 to 2018, the country’s richest 400 families paid an average income tax rate of 8.2% on $1.8 trillion of income.

What is there to explain away? 8.2% on $1.8 trillion of income is a huge amount. I assume in the UK similarly wealthy individuals pay way more taxes, but that is the liability of living in a socialist country.

You make no mention of the super rich not taking a salary or greatly reduced salary and take it in stock instead? To avoid the higher rates of income tax.

I don't think they would be super rich if they weren't astute enough to make this simple money-saving move.

And as a result, their companies thrive. creating more wealth and products for thousands of Americans, who otherwise might not be tax-paying individuals. Hope the US can churn out more and more billionaires. It is inspiring.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Actually this has happened before with Musk. The SEC brought an action against him a couple of years ago over a different tweet he made that affected the stock price (he tweeted that he was going to take Tesla private, which caused a big spike in the stock price, but later turned out he was just BSing). They reached a settlement in which he paid a fine, resigned as chairman (but not CEO) and he committed to having all his tweets about the company vetted by lawyers before posting him. Pretty sure he violated that last term in this case.

I wonder if they might do something similar this time.

Thanks for the insight.

They might be less inclined to penalize him, the poll actually brought the value of the stocks down. But whatever the case, if he violated some laws then he will be.

I'm sure he knows that and prepared to pay whatever it is coming.

Anyway I think somebody mentioned above that he was being sneaky about the whole thing.

Maybe he was but not in this particular case , I think.

The 1,1 billion sale was put in motion long before the poll, sometime in September.

The sale that was made after the poll was in the amount of around 3.8 billion, that was categorized as unplanned

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Ah it was mentioned in the article:

However the sell was put in motion on September 14, according to documents filed Wednesday, meaning it was not spurred by the survey's outcome.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

he aint got diamond hands. learn to HODL

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Wow, finally brought up a thread people are being constructive about

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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