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© 2021 AFPElon Musk sells $1.1 billion in Tesla shares
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© 2021 AFP
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Jonathan Prin
So he sold 930000 shares at a few percentages less but bought 2.15 million at a tenth of the price.
The article'stone would make you think he lost money while he just earned billions again.
There is no significance of all this for him compare to our "miserable" life.
If money goes toward progress and he pays well his employees at low entry, ok for me.
RegBilk
This guy is great. Hope he earns a trillion---and keeps it all.
fxgai
Of course, 20% of billions of dollars is way more more than one might pay as tax on standard income. And anyone else selling Tesla shares will also be paying a lot of tax too.
If only the Japanese economy has some golden egg laying geese too.
Attilathehungry
Actually, the 2 million shares he bough are worth north of $2 billion. Tesla is trading over $1000 a share these days. Nice option to have...
ian
Just cashing out some.
ian
He's probably paying just a tad less.
Heard he acquired his stocks at least than half a dollar per
Belrick
It's pretty funny seeing the poors complain about his success and smarts. Then again, it's hardly surprising given how many of you out there hate to see anyone being obviously more successful than you are!
kurisupisu
Elon Musk is a forward thinker.
Using the internet’s power to establish a consensus has just earned him the respect of millions.
Imagine if politicians were as radical?
ian
Yes.
But I was referring to just the difference in capital gains tax if calculated using the whole sale price and using just actual capital gains.
It will not be calculated from 1.1 billion but the figure is still near that much
ian
Was basically just commenting on this:
rainyday
I suspect Musk is going to face some action from the SEC over this. His tweet didn't just affect the value of his shares, it affected the value of Tesla shares held by everyone else too.
ian
I'm actually curious about what would be done and/or what can be done and /or what should be done about something like this.
It's one thing to talk about crypto, another thing altogether to talk about stocks especially your own that you're actively trading.
I think the whole informing the public softened the impact but still
rainyday
Actually this has happened before with Musk. The SEC brought an action against him a couple of years ago over a different tweet he made that affected the stock price (he tweeted that he was going to take Tesla private, which caused a big spike in the stock price, but later turned out he was just BSing). They reached a settlement in which he paid a fine, resigned as chairman (but not CEO) and he committed to having all his tweets about the company vetted by lawyers before posting him. Pretty sure he violated that last term in this case.
I wonder if they might do something similar this time.
Antiquesaving
Someone didn't fully read.
So I reality he did exactly what a politician does, puts out a fake "I will listen to my base" but in reality did what he was planning all along and his fanboys/girls fell for it.
bass4funk
He’ll make that back in a month or so, no worries.
bass4funk
Well, with other investments and access to other projects where he has money tied up, he will be ok, he will never be poor, won't happen and that wealth does fluctuate depending on various factors
fxgai
And which company pays 1 billion dollars in cold hard cash salary?
If you want salty income taxed at the capital gains rate then sure, cut the income tax rate to 20% as well to keep it fair.
The problem of those who make such claims, is facts.
In the US the top 1% of income earners pay 40% of the taxes, for example. “Fair share” is just a declaration of greed and envy. I find it disgusting and offensive.
Musk is going to pay plenty of tax for his realized gains here, according to the same rules as apply for everyone. That’s fair.
He didn’t know what the result of the poll was going to be though.
fxgai
Thats nonsense, this is figures from the IRS. It can’t be proved “wrong”. What you quote is an article that tries to put a reverse spin on it, but the data is what the data is.
The top 1% pay 40% of the income tax revenues according to the IRS; this is what it is.
Musk tweeted as much himself last weekend, that’s obvious. If he doesn’t get paid a salary then of course he won’t pay income tax because a rate times 0 is 0.
Where is it written that people must only obtain wealth through salaries income payments?
Or you want to demand that Tesla pay Musk an income so that it can be taxed?
How are the huge sums of cap gains tax he’ll pay insufficient?
As for Tesla’s employees, who are employees because of Musk, you can rest assured they pay income tax because that is the way they agreed to be compensated and that’s something the tax system taxes.
Look, if a wealthy person works for nothing and consumes frugally, sorry but you are just going to have to bear it. Their contribution to society is significant in the amounts of employment they help create and the tax the do pay when they realize cap gains etc.
And if the rich are buying lots of stuff, having a consumption tax is a way to tax them, and then cut income tax rates to compensate.
rainyday
Yup, those figures are true. But they are limited if you want an accurate picture of how much of the overall tax burden, rather than just federal income tax, the wealthy pay.
The study cited in the article he quoted isn’t just “spin”, it provides additional data on how much the wealthy pay in state and local taxes to give a fuller picture. Its a fact that the top 1% of earners earn over 20% of total income and pay roughly 24% of total taxes paid.
Peter Neil
The problem isn't taxes, it's untethered government spending.
0-$30,000 income - no taxes
$30,000 to $40,000 - 10% tax on excess over $30,000
$40,000 to $80,000 - 15% on excess over $30,000
$80,000 + 20% tax on excess over $30,000.
20% Capital Gains tax
No deductions. No deductions for anything, including losses, mortgage interest, nothing, nada, zip.
bass4funk
Of course, they do, how could they not and for the life of me, I don't understand why the left continues to perpetuate that misinformation.
Exactly, and the left instead of taking someone else's money, how about lowering taxes and creating and encouraging more revenue, creating better job opportunities, employing and training more people that don't want to go to college for high paying blue-collar jobs, allowing for better training, focus on jobs that make a difference where the society can benefit from, liberals arts won't cut it. Encouraging kids to become Entrepreneur is always the better way to go. Create more leaders and stop punishing success.
bass4funk
What a bunch of Bull!
https://howmuch.net/articles/high-income-americans-pay-majority-of-federal-taxes
As this data visualization clearly shows, the top 1% pay much more than taxpayers of any other income level.It is almost double as much as the next bracket of top incomes: those earning the 2% to 5% of the highest wages in America pay 20.5% of all Federal Income Tax. Or in absolute terms: $281.51 billion.
It is also almost four times as much as those whose incomes range from the top 6% to 10%. They pay 10.9% of Federal Income Tax, or $149.97 billion.
Those who earn between the top 10% to 25% of wages in America are a much larger group; yet their collective input into the Federal Income Tax is only half as much again as the previous band: 15.9% (i.e. $281.55 billion).
Those with an income anywhere between the top 25% and 50% only pay 10.5% of all Federal Income Tax, no more than $143.95 billion.
The entire bottom half of wage earners pays only 2.8% of its income in taxes into the federal coffers. In actual money terms: $37.74 billion. That is more than 14 times less than the top 1%, even though this group is 50 times as numerous.
These figures show the level of contribution to total income tax revenues by the various income levels. The Tax Foundation also provided figures for what that means for individual taxpayers in each group.
For the richest 1%, the effective average tax rate is 27.2%, meaning that well over a quarter of their income goes into federal coffers.
For the next group (up to 5%), the fiscal pressure is just below a quarter: 23.6%.
Taxpayers with incomes in the top 10% part with just over one-fifth (21.3%) of their earnings.
Those in the top 25% bracket contribute 17.8% of their annual income.
Even those up to the 50th percentile on average still give 15.5% of their annual income to Uncle Sam.
Because about 45% of American households make too little to pay any Federal Income Tax, the average percentage for the bottom half of incomes is dramatically lower – the average Federal Income tax level for this group is just 3.5%.
bass4funk
But rich enough,
As the top 1% do.
Why all the hate? What do you want? All of their income? You just want a band-aid and a short-term fix because that is what income redistribution does. It's a temporary fix.
Good for them, don't blame them one bit.
RegBilk
zichiToday 12:49 am JST
What is there to explain away? 8.2% on $1.8 trillion of income is a huge amount. I assume in the UK similarly wealthy individuals pay way more taxes, but that is the liability of living in a socialist country.
I don't think they would be super rich if they weren't astute enough to make this simple money-saving move.
And as a result, their companies thrive. creating more wealth and products for thousands of Americans, who otherwise might not be tax-paying individuals. Hope the US can churn out more and more billionaires. It is inspiring.
ian
Thanks for the insight.
They might be less inclined to penalize him, the poll actually brought the value of the stocks down. But whatever the case, if he violated some laws then he will be.
I'm sure he knows that and prepared to pay whatever it is coming.
Anyway I think somebody mentioned above that he was being sneaky about the whole thing.
Maybe he was but not in this particular case , I think.
The 1,1 billion sale was put in motion long before the poll, sometime in September.
The sale that was made after the poll was in the amount of around 3.8 billion, that was categorized as unplanned
ian
Ah it was mentioned in the article:
HWANG YOUNG WOO
he aint got diamond hands. learn to HODL
WA4TKG
Wow, finally brought up a thread people are being constructive about