Rush to bitcoin? Not so fast, say keepers of corporate coffers

Like other risky investments, invest what you can afford to loose.

It's really funny the amount of anti crypto currency propaganda Reuters and Bloomberg produce. A bit disapointing that major news delivery websites like JT only forward those.

Bitcoin is due for a huge correction, and when it happens, lots of people will lose a lot of money. Much like the idiots still holding their GME, despite having lost thousands.

Bitcoin is due for a huge correction, and when it happens, lots of people will lose a lot of money. Much like the idiots still holding their GME, despite having lost thousands.

Anyone who's been in the space long enough knows bitcoin has its cycles. They should also know that you don't lose money unless you sell, which is why the hodl meme exists. It will go far higher this year and people will sell off. Then after the next halving, it will rise again yet even higher. There's a very strong chance it will eat a lot of other assets. Get on board or be left behind.

It's really funny the amount of anti crypto currency propaganda 

no, what’s really funny is how a currency that proponents pride as being secure keeps getting stolen and people keep losing passwords for it.

what’s also really funny is how something that proponents keep saying is the currency of the future has a miserable track record in environmental friendliness and can only get worse due to the incentives built into the system.

perhaps what’s really funniest is how reluctant to address bitcoin’s obvious short-comings and indeed how cult-like its proponents have become. they refuse to acknowledge that a healthy dose of skepticism is necessary before carrying major changes to the currency system.

sourpussToday 12:34 pm JST

> no, what’s really funny is how a currency that proponents pride as being secure keeps getting stolen and people keep losing passwords for it.

As much as people getting their internet banking password stolen, not more. What about credit cards ? You don't even need to rob it physically to use it ...

what’s also really funny is how something that proponents keep saying is the currency of the future has a miserable track record in environmental friendliness and can only get worse due to the incentives built into the system.

Bitcoin doesn't need more than a normal computer to run, lots of people currently want a share of the pie and participate, this is summed in those ridiculous comparisons.

They convert energy into currency, like close to any business does.

What about the usage of Visa or Mastercard ? All the terminals, the ATMS, the banks computers, servers, physical offices woldwide, ...

Or gold mining ?

It's really funny the amount of anti crypto currency propaganda Reuters and Bloomberg produce. 

Mt. Gox? The only way I would get into Bitcoin is if I had a time machine and be the scammer instead of the scammee then sell my millions after mining lots of BC on my own PC (again in 2010). And after I hold on enough for it to be in the millions (some years later) then sell my BT to a bunch of suckers then live with cold hard real safe cash that is backed by governments in real banks. Something like Bitcoin? You need to get in early to be personally wealthy with it. If not then you are the sucker.

no, what’s really funny is how a currency that proponents pride as being secure keeps getting stolen and people keep losing passwords for it.

The blockchain network is secure and has never been hacked, yet.

People being careless has nothing to do with bitcoin's network security.

@Eppee

nothing you say there is an actual improvement on the current system. risks included. and your remarks about computer usage don’t make sense. in order to be more widely used, bitcoin needs more computers and therefore exponentially more power.

if it offers no real-world advantages over the present situation(and so far it has demonstrated none), there is no necessity to adopt it save creating a useless bubble.

Like other risky investments, invest what you can afford to loose.

These days you have to wonder if the risk isn't in keeping FIAT currencies in some countries. If the value of the American dollar were to fall out say, bitcoin would likely become the place to hold ones funds to keep their value.

People being careless has nothing to do with bitcoin's network security.

bitcoin network security doesn’t prevent bitcoins from being stolen. in real world security terms it’s no different from putting your money in the bank. and yet if the bank is robbed, your money is still insured.

perhaps what’s really funniest is how reluctant to address bitcoin’s obvious short-comings and indeed how cult-like its proponents have become.

I'm a follower of cryptocurrencies. They interest me a lot. I'm one of the people who has actually taken the time to look into how the system works, from the hashing of each transaction, and how that is written to the blockchain by the first minor to show the proof-of-work done to write the current block.

Bitcoin definitely has some shortcomings. I do question whether it will be the cryptocurrency that wins out in the end. Being Delta Zero, it's got the longest history, and the most solid foundation of the cryptocurrencies out there. But someone could build a better mousetrap. That doesn't even necessarily mean bitcoin would fail - just like everything everywhere, if people believe it to still have value, it will still have value.

they refuse to acknowledge that a healthy dose of skepticism is necessary before carrying major changes to the currency system.

Before...

Before what? This sentence is so confusing. Cryptocurrencies already exist. They are already being used. People are getting paid in them, making purchases with them, and essentially FOREX trading with them. This isn't a decision that hasn't been made, nor is it even one that can be turned back. Cryptocurrencies are part of human society now, and for as long as we have the internet.

So it's not clear what a healthy dose of skepticism would do, and how it could have any effect on the major changes that have already come, and will only continue to come, with cryptocurrencies.

bitcoin network security doesn’t prevent bitcoins from being stolen. in real world security terms it’s no different from putting your money in the bank. and yet if the bank is robbed, your money is still insured.

I don't believe that is as clear as you make it to be. As I understand it (and it's not a topic I'm particularly knowledgeable on), most banks only insure your money to a certain amount. Also, when managed correctly, a cryptocurrency is more secure than any centralized banking system. A centralized system can be hacked both through the infrastructure, and social hacking. Cryptocurrencies are only susceptible to social hacking.

if it offers no real-world advantages over the present situation(and so far it has demonstrated none)

If there is no real-world advantage, then why do people buy it? What is it that would cause people to do something that provides absolutely no advantages for them over the "present situation"? I'm having troubles with coming up with any reason why people would have ever bought a single cryptocurrency if it offers no benefit over the current system. But you have stated that there is absolutely no benefit to cryptocurrencies, and yet, for some reason people are buying and selling them every day. So something's not jiving here. Can you add some clarity?

It’s nothing else than a very big pyramid scheme. Masses lured in, with support of a few big names and sometimes a little cash back for some, while the pyramid’s top silently eats the big cake pieces as long as enough new investors step in. In addition, suspicious hackers and criminals take their part out of it, often with a background of infamous regimes from Africa, Southern Latin-, Central-Americas and of course, China and North Korea. Just send your money directly if you are feeling obliged to help and support those regimes. No need to cover up and indirectly play the ‘cool bitcoiner’ as camouflage.

It’s nothing else than a very big pyramid scheme.

Fair enough. Probably better if you don't buy it then.

In addition, suspicious hackers and criminals take their part out of it, often with a background of infamous regimes from Africa, Southern Latin-, Central-Americas and of course, China and North Korea.

Um, people from every country in the world (probably even N. Korea) use bitcoin. It's not the dominion of any country, and you could pick any group of people in the world and find instances of that group using cryptocurrencies. People from the countries you listed use cash, and American dollars too. Does that make cash and American dollars flawed?

Bitcoin wastes a huge amount of energy, is a risky investment, and is impractical. If they were to submit their "currency" to a trusted body, say, a state, these obstacles could potentially be overcome. Alas, this goes against the weird philosophy of its libertarian fans.

Bitcoin wastes a huge amount of energy

Depends on how describe 'waste'. But it most definitely uses extremely large amounts of energy.

is a risky investment

Very.

and is impractical

That's a blanket statement. Practicality depends on the goal of the bitcoin purchaser. For example, it's practical for a gangster who wants to store his money in an untraceable manner. And that's only a single example.

sourpussToday 03:13 pm JST

nothing you say there is an actual improvement on the current system. risks included. and your remarks about computer usage don’t make sense. in order to be more widely used, bitcoin needs more computers and therefore exponentially more power.

That's simply not true.

in order to be more widely used, bitcoin needs more computers and therefore exponentially more power.

That's simply not true.

It's definitely a fundamental misunderstanding. Bitcoin could run on the exact number of servers it runs on now, even on 1/10, or even 1/1000 the number of servers. The only reason server usage has ramped up to what it is, is due to the massive profits that can be made from successfully showing proof-of-work to write to the blockchain (aka mining). People add more servers because they WANT to, in hopes for a payout.

When the value stabilizes, and/or when there are no more coins to be mined, there won't be the huge financial motivation to continue mining bitcoin, and the number of servers will drop. This drop will continue until there are few enough people doing it that the odds of successfully writing to the blockchain and getting the transaction fees that result support the cost of running bitcoin servers to do so.

tldr; Bitcoin does NOT need more computers, nor therefore exponentially more power to become more widely used. That does not mean it won't use more power, but it most definitely does NOT require more power.

Depends on how describe 'waste'. But it most definitely uses extremely large amounts of energy.

According to Statista:

The average energy consumption for one single Bitcoin transaction in 2020 was 741 kilowatt-hours. This was significantly more compared to the cumulative 100,000 VISA transactions with only an energy consumption of 149 kilowatt-hours.

I'd say that that's pretty wasteful.

That's a blanket statement. Practicality depends on the goal of the bitcoin purchaser. For example, it's practical for a gangster who wants to store his money in an untraceable manner. And that's only a single example.

Yes, I was making a blanket statement. I want to protect and encourage economic activity among people doing things that are good for society. Not for gangsters.

Lol so many know it all's here. If you don't like bitcoin, then look the other way. Those negative on it just sound uninformed or sour because they sold on a dip.

This gangster argument is also nonsense. The USD is currently the first currency used for illicit transactions. The fiat in cash is completly anonymous while Bitcoin is not, one can trace all the transactions since its inception, that's why the cash is still the illegal business king.

This gangster argument is also nonsense. The USD is currently the first currency used for illicit transactions. The fiat in cash is completly anonymous while Bitcoin is not, one can trace all the transactions since its inception, that's why the cash is still the illegal business king.

Why do you think money laundering exists?

If you don't like bitcoin, then look the other way.

I notice these days when individuals approach me (like in a bar) in order get me in on crypto mining...they want me to do it not for my benefit but rather for their benefit. If I build a mining PC and operate it that would be like running your hair dryer 24/7. I have no idea what Elon Musk is doing...or the banks. But real banks have real security and with their great resources they will be the scammer while individuals will continue to be scammed (unless you got super early into it). And you Bitcoin people please don't spoil the mood in the bars. Yes, you know who you are. Please keep your bit mining charts out of my face.

Yes Elon is a genius with car and space tech, but if he had been so smart with crypto he would have started it in 2010 and become the world's first trillionaire from it. Even Elon missed the big chance for BC. Bitcoin is a big scam.

@Strangerland, as much as you say you don't know a lot about Bitcoin, you seem to have a pretty balanced approach to it, and I basically agree with what you've written here. Bitcoin is gradually gaining use as a direct medium of exchange for goods and services without going through other currencies, and this will increase as its value stabilizes. Remembering that this "value" is only in comparison to fiat currencies anyway. When people say Bitcoin has gone up, we could just as easily say that the $US has gone down. Same for any other currency.

@Lazarus Knows, you're aware of the enormous amount of energy it takes to keep the fiat money system running, aren't you? You know, all the bank systems, ATMs, payment terminals and the like. While acknowledging that Bitcoin and other cryptos do use lots of energy, the miners are actually doing "work" to generate the crypto coin through solving complex mathematical problems. Just as in the old days when effort had to be expended to mine gold, copper and whatnot. In contrast, central banks can now "print" billions of dollars or yen or whatever with no more effort than it takes to press a button or two, while at the same time eroding the value of existing money by flooding the economy with new money that has not been created through work.

I would not feel comfortable having my life savings in BC since it could disappear with just slight carelessness or just getting hacked (Mt. Gox). But the government has regulation and even insurance to protect against that. And if I'm in the millions then it's safe to park your cash in government bonds if you want safe risk. And what merchants take BC? I have never seen one that takes BC in person. And if they do then it's just a novelty to attract attention to themselves. It's not for practicality.

I notice these days when individuals approach me (like in a bar) in order get me in on crypto mining...

Lol what kind of bars are you going to? Who the hell cold approaches people to get them to start mining. Sounds look a cool bar honestly. But alas in the real world, this doesn't really happen. A small % of folk in the space are mining and most are simply hodling. If you take your time to study the precautions of holding your own coin, then fears of being hacked are virtually non existent. I've held my own coins for years and have no fear of being hacked.

Many businesses take a multitude of coins. Just because you haven't seen them don't mean they dont exist. And luckily smart folk are building more and more platforms constantly on which to transact with crypto. It's still early days.

 I've held my own coins for years

I wish I had coins for years now because then I would sell them for regular currency and keep the millions in a real bank. If I only had a time machine... especially back in 2010. It's good and lucky you really got in the game that early. I wish I had done the same 10 years ago

don't mean they dont exist

They don't exist for me or anyone I know. How come convenience stores don't take coin? They are really into cashless bit no coin? And Starbucks?

virtually non existent.

Mt. Gox?

If there is no real-world advantage, then why do people buy it?

the belief that technology can solve all of our earthly problems; the belief that in the future it will become widely used; the belief that by getting in on the game early they can profit from the rise in value. and in the initial days of bitcoin, the desire not to be tracked by the government and the desire to carry out illicit transactions in secret

there are myriad reasons why people have bought into the bitcoin hype on top of the misleading arguments about security. none of them are particularly salient or based on present conditions considering that governments won’t be rubber stamping anything they can’t, even superficially, keep an eye on. why people buy bitcoin is at the moment mostly based on speculation and wishful thinking rather than realistic practicality.

the people pushing its use are generally the ones who got in early and have seen their bitcoins rise. and by hyping it up they hope to make it rise more. this is like a volatile Ponzi scheme. many people buy into ponzi schemes too for similar reasons.

overall the belief in new technology as something good is probably the biggest motivator in why people buy bitcoin. which is to say, it’s almost like a cult.

again, i don’t see why people have to buy bitcoin when in reality it doesn’t do anything better than the present options we have. if they want to speculate and make money that way, that’s fine, but all the other talk about security and freedom rings hollow.

*illegal transactions in secret

Mt. Gox?

Mt Gox was the very first exchange trading coins that were worth next to nothing at the time. Now, we have plenty of exchanges which are doing just fine. Sure, issues happen. But those were the early days. Things take time to polish.

I wish I had coins for years now because then I would sell them for regular currency and keep the millions in a real bank. If I only had a time machine... especially back in 2010. It's good and lucky you really got in the game that early. I wish I had done the same 10 years ago

I'll be taking some profit later this year. All of my initial investments are off the table now. The same goes for many people I know. It's working for loads of people, much opposed to the negativity of naysayers. You could still buy now and make a nice profit in around another four years. You will probably kick yourself once you see the price in 2025 and didn't do anything about it.

the people pushing its use are generally the ones who got in early

Yes, such as we see here...

I've held my own coins for years and have no fear of being hacked.

But I would have cashed out the millions then hired a tax attorney and CPA to settle any tax stuff then just hoard the money safely in usual currency to last for the rest of my life. Like the person who quoted above, I would love BC too if I got into it at the early stage, but I would have mined enough to get out of it and put the real cash in safe and regulated deposits. Now? no way

You will probably kick yourself

No, I'm kicking myself now since I missed out on making easy millions (or 10s or even 100s of millions) by hacking together a bit miner in my house from my usual PC in 2010. I mean you could have made yourself a 100 millionaire with just an investment of next to nothing back in 2010. Can you do that now? No way. It's 2021 now and If I don't invest now and I miss out on getting back 2 or 3x my investment (or could easily be that much in loss) then who cares? That's peanuts compared to what you have made since you got into it back in 2010. If I wanted 2 or 3x my investment I would put my money in a stock that I consider a buy. And even if that stock doesn't go up 2 or 3x there is a very good chance it will not be underwater like BC could.

Mt Gox was the very first exchange trading coins that were worth next to nothing at the time.

Should I trust the system to put in my life savings?

No, I'm kicking myself now since I missed out on making easy millions (or 10s or even 100s of millions) by hacking together a bit miner in my house from my usual PC in 2010. I mean you could have made yourself a 100 millionaire with just an investment of next to nothing back in 2010. Can you do that now? No way. It's 2021 now and If I don't invest now and I miss out on getting back 2 or 3x my investment (or could easily be that much in loss) then who cares? That's peanuts compared to what you have made since you got into it back in 2010. If I wanted 2 or 3x my investment I would put my money in a stock that I consider a buy. And even if that stock doesn't go up 2 or 3x there is a very good chance it will not be underwater like BC could.

I'm of the belief that it will 10x again by the next peak in around 4 years. Not many things 10x. The amount of returns will decrease as each cycle moves ahead. Regardless, this asset has grown by 9 million percent since its inception. How long does it have to last before people stop calling it a ponzi? 10 years? 20 years? 50 years?Adoption from not just large companies, but governments? Call me crazy, but despite my profits already I will continue to hold some coins, aside from taking profits, to score even more. Regardless of bitcoin, there are other coins which I think will have a big role in future finance and i'll be holding indefinitely, if not forever.

I never said put your life savings in it. That's absurd. Only ever put in what you can afford to lose. Consider it gone. But you'll likely be gaining decent profits the way things are going.

Adoption from not just large companies, but governments?

Which ones?

Which ones?

Im talking hypothetically. It's on the cards and if it happens, would people still call it a ponzi? One thing that has happened lately is that Miami is looking to pay people in bitcoin. I think it could be adopted by governments in due time if it continues to be a desirable store of value.

https://www.crowdfundinsider.com/2021/02/172183-miami-goes-all-in-on-bitcoin-as-mayor-francis-suarez-looks-to-use-btc-for-payments-florida-wins-again/

There is no difference to last price rise apart from the shorters being absent this time. 

Well this time institutions are driving the price as opposed to retail. Retail alone won't drive the price. So if anything the price will more so be sustained because institutions are likely to hold instead of retail panic selling.

Im talking hypothetically. 

I know North Korea uses it.

If the Institutional bag holders are really coming to the party, then yes we could see much higher prices as the $50k price begins to solidify. Interesting times.

Yeah, I really think we'll see much higher prices still this year before a dip down. There's even some ideas thrown out there that we won't get the usual long term bear market after the dip due to institutional investments. No one knows for sure. But I have my plan for what I will do from this year on out. If it does gain large-scale adoption in the future, I want to be ready for that.

Yes Elon is a genius with car and space tech, but if he had been so smart with crypto he would have started it in 2010 and become the world's first trillionaire from it. Even Elon missed the big chance for BC. Bitcoin is a big scam.

If this guy was so smart, he would have started that thing that didn't exist in humanity before.

Quite the ridiculous bar your setting (and statement you're making) there.

as much as you say you don't know a lot about Bitcoin, you seem to have a pretty balanced approach to it,

I never said I don't know a lot about it. I do know a lot about it, right down to how it works. I don't invest in it though. I'm looking forward to when it stabilizes and can be used for day-to-day transactions.

I would not feel comfortable having my life savings in BC since it could disappear with just slight carelessness or just getting hacked (Mt. Gox)

You don't have to keep your money in a hosted wallet, like Mt. Gox, you can use exchanges to exchange your money from bitcoin to FIAT, but you don't have to leave your money in the exchange. You can put it in a private wallet, where it will be as safe from hacking, as you keep it.

And what merchants take BC? I have never seen one that takes BC in person.

Not many yet. The volatility in price means that at the moment it's not stable enough for most businesses to be willing to take it, so the primary use for people is to do FOREX trading with it, making money that way.

Which brings up a big point - a lot of people think it's weird to be investing in a currency to make money. These people clearly don't realize this is a MAJOR part of the world economy already with FOREX trading of FIAT currencies. Buying and selling currencies for (hopeful) profit is nothing new whatsoever to humans.

the belief that technology can solve all of our earthly problems; the belief that in the future it will become widely used; the belief that by getting in on the game early they can profit from the rise in value. and in the initial days of bitcoin, the desire not to be tracked by the government and the desire to carry out illicit transactions in secret

So although you originally said there are no advantages to cryptocurrencies, you've listed some very clear reasons why bitcoin has an advantage.

i don’t see why people have to buy bitcoin when in reality it doesn’t do anything better than the present options we have.

You just listed a number of reasons above right there. There are a number of others, not least of which being able to control your own money rather than handing it over to some institution, who gets to know all about your life, where you shop, how much you spend, how much you make, who you value (financially) etc. That's the big one for me - I'm a huge proponent of privacy.

overall the belief in new technology as something good is probably the biggest motivator in why people buy bitcoin.

For me it's belief in blockchain technology. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I have spent a good bit of time understanding how it works underneath the hood, and how it's not both designed through code, but also has a social design component that brings it all together.

I'm kicking myself now since I missed out on making easy millions (or 10s or even 100s of millions) by hacking together a bit miner in my house from my usual PC in 2010.

You also missed out when it went up to $1000. Then up to $5000. Then up to $10000. Then up to $20000. How do you know you're not missing out now at $50000?

I have no idea what the final value will be. But I know enough to know that anyone claiming anything definitive (aka - it will never rise above this) doesn't know what they're talking about. Maybe this is the highest it will ever be. Maybe it will go up to $1 million/coin. Until it stabilizes, none of us will know. Just a lot of speculation.

Should I trust the system to put in my life savings?

Not if you don't want to. Keep your money in FIAT. I personally wouldn't have my life savings all in anything - diversification is the route to stability.

The idea behind bitcoin was ideological but has been hijacked in the name of greed.

What? Here is the idea behind bitcoin, from the creator themself. From the Bitcoin manifesto (https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf);

A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow onlinepayments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through afinancial institution. Digital signatures provide part of the solution, but the mainbenefits are lost if a trusted third party is still required to prevent double-spending.We propose a solution to the double-spending problem using a peer-to-peer network.The network timestamps transactions by hashing them into an ongoing chain ofhash-based proof-of-work, forming a record that cannot be changed without redoingthe proof-of-work. The longest chain not only serves as proof of the sequence ofevents witnessed, but proof that it came from the largest pool of CPU power. Aslong as a majority of CPU power is controlled by nodes that are not cooperating toattack the network, they'll generate the longest chain and outpace attackers. Thenetwork itself requires minimal structure. Messages are broadcast on a best effortbasis, and nodes can leave and rejoin the network at will, accepting the longestproof-of-work chain as proof of what happened while they were gone.

No ideology, other than removing a third party from financial transactions, which, it has done from the start and still does, meaning it has not been hijacked.

You can put it in a private wallet, where it will be as safe from hacking, as you keep it.

It's in your house? What if it's stolen or your house burns down? When thieves break into houses they look for small things with value like jewelry, cash, and Bitcoin wallets

Not many yet.

The price fluctuates according to currency. I can buy a cup of coffee at McD's for around 150 yen. Is was 150 yen last year and probably the same next year. It could even be the same price of 150 yen 3 years later. How do they settle the cost with BC for this same coffee menu item? If the BC prices explodes or crashes how do they set the new BC price to match?

it's not stable enough

And when will it be stable enough?

If this guy was so smart, he would have started that thing that didn't exist in humanity before.

Elon did not start Tesla

a lot of people think it's weird to be investing in a currency to make money.

Big institutions trade real currency. Do they trade crypto currency?

If you are a new investor then better to go with something like index funds as long as you are not too old. Nothing in history in terms of returns have never been perpetual like BC people like to think about Bitcoin. But Bitcoin is only a good bet for people who started early like PharaohChromium (I've held my own coins for years). If I were in that situation and had millions of dollars from BC like PharaohChromium does then I would just sell and keep the regular currency. I mean how many millions do you need?

You also missed out when it went up to $1000. Then up to $5000. Then up to $10000. Then up to $20000. How do you know you're not missing out now at $50000?

Yes, you are a millionaire from it. You got in early and that is good for you. Don't you want to sell out? I would. Again, how many millions do you need?

It's in your house?

If you want it to be. Or you want to up your odds of its safety, I'd personally go for a safe-deposit box in a bank. They don't usually burn down, nor have thieves break in. Other options exist as well, such as programs that will encrypt your private key, only being able to be unlocked through a series of 12 (last I looked) plain English words that you memorize. You don't even have to have a physical representation of your wallet anywhere.

The price fluctuates according to currency. I can buy a cup of coffee at McD's for around 150 yen. Is was 150 yen last year and probably the same next year. It could even be the same price of 150 yen 3 years later. How do they settle the cost with BC for this same coffee menu item? If the BC prices explodes or crashes how do they set the new BC price to match?

You're asking about how it will be stable, before it's stable. The only answer to that is, it won't.

Currently, the value has not stabilized. As such, businesses don't take it for transactions like a coffee. I don't take it as payment for our business - I have employees to pay, and I can't afford to have the value drop out underneath me.

However, over time as the actual value is realized, those spikes in value, both up and down, will get smaller and smaller until the price becomes not particularly variable. When that happens, it won't make much sense to invest, other the same as people do FOREX trading now - it's a difficult game. But, with a stable value, that 1.50 bitcoin from one year will not change in value and still be worth 1.50 bitcoin the next year.

The more it stabilizes, the more regular business will trade it, and the less people will be investing in it.

You're trying to say 'when it's stable, what if the value bottoms out?'. Well, that could happen with your regular money too - just ask the Greeks or the Argentinians.

 I'd personally go for a safe-deposit box in a bank.

Then what happens if you have millions on your private wallet and you are robbed on the way to the safety deposit box. Carrying a piece of paper worth millions and millions is scary. You have to drive around in a armored car.

plain English words that you memorize. 

And if you die, how does your family take over your assets? Or what if you forget these words?

Well, that could happen with your regular money too

So every country's currency will bottom out and we only trade in Bitcoin?

I don't take it as payment for our business

What kind of business do you have?

If you are a new investor then better to go with something like index funds as long as you are not too old.

Blanket statement. For some people that will be true, for others it will not. Some people are ok with high-risk for high-reward. If they have the money, and are willing to lose it, then how can you say that they are better off going for an index fund which, while lower risk, is also lower rewards. Maybe if YOU were a new investor, that would be the better option, but you aren't everybody, and other people have different drives and motivations. That's how the free market works.

Nothing in history in terms of returns have never been perpetual like BC people like to think about Bitcoin.

I've never seen anyone claim it will increase in value perpetually. In fact, anyone I've ever seen that knows what they're talking about claims quite the opposite - that we will see fluctuations up and down in value, until the true value is figured out, and the price stabilizes.

But Bitcoin is only a good bet for people who started early like PharaohChromium (I've held my own coins for years).

That's objectively false. Many people have made millions, who didn't start early. Some just in the last year.

Cryptocurrencies are too high a risk for me to invest in. But I'm not claiming all investors are the same as me. Some people want and like the risk, for the reward it can bring.

Then what happens if you have millions on your private wallet and you are robbed on the way to the safety deposit box.

Why do you have to carry it to the safety deposit box? You could do it in the lobby of the bank.

Carrying a piece of paper worth millions and millions is scary. You have to drive around in a armored car.

Yeah I probably would. Or you could split it out amongst multiple wallets, and make multiple trips to the bank.

And if you die, how does your family take over your assets?

A will.

Or what if you forget these words?

Don't. Or use a different method.

So every country's currency will bottom out and we only trade in Bitcoin?

I doubt it. Cash didn't disappear when checks were invented. Checks didn't disappear when credit cards were invented. I don't see any reason FIAT currencies would disappear just because cryptocurrencies exist.

What kind of business do you have?

I have two, both in IT.

I will stick to US dollars while the US is still around. After that gold and diamonds if you are paranoid.

Many people will stick to those same things, others will invest in cryptocurrencies. Hurrah to the free market!

So although you originally said there are no advantages to cryptocurrencies, you've listed some very clear reasons why bitcoin has an advantage.

no. I said the “belief” in and “desire” for such things. I also said that this belief is cult-like. You demonstrate this perfectly. “blockchain” and “social” are really just tech buzzwords, coded language meaning newer is better.

Hindsight is 20-20 and I should have bought and held Amazon stock as well. But 2010 provided an opportunity to make 100s of millions risk free and just dump Bitcoin into real currency. Too bad mining damages the environment.. if I run a miner in my house with several GPUs it would be like running several hair dryers 24/7 and how much money can I make from that? But if everyone in town does this it will kill the grid, kill the environment, but make the early adopters even richer

no. I said the “belief” in and “desire” for such things.

Um, yeah, where do you think the value in EVERYTHING comes from. Not just fiat currencies, but products, goods, and anything. Nothing has value if no one believes it does, and nothing has value if no one desires it.

The fact is, the beliefs that you listed are the advantages that bitcoin has, which is why people buy it.

Regular currencies are backed by countries with good industries and developed legal systems. Are there bonds based on Bitcoin? As counties develop over time their currencies increase in power. Bitcoin is higher than other crypto currencies because they are just more popular in name? They were earlier? The name itself is attractive? Anything else? The Yen is pretty strong since Japan has a good legal system and important industry. Countries feel safe parking their cash in JPY bonds because of that. Should I feel the same amount of safety parking billions of dollars in BC?