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Honda to spend ¥5 tril over next decade on EVs

29 Comments
By YURI KAGEYAMA

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29 Comments
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Japan, Inc. need to start thinking about the infrastructure required to deal with the country having more EVs. And as much as I want to see more toxic fossil fuel spewing vehicles off the roads and as a result cleaner air. It would be helpful to see life cycle cost assessments done to see what the overall equation looks like.

I would like to be reassured that shifting away from burning huge amounts of fossil fuels is the best long term for the environment. I am reasonably sure that by decreasing the wealth and power of the globe's gas/oil states we will see fewer wars at least fewer wars for control of gas, oil and their shipment. The global economy shifted away from animal power and coal, it can shift away from burning huge amounts of oil and gas, assuming the fossils controlling the planet will allow that to happen. Maybe a start would be have age limits on politicians, no politician responsible for decisions regarding energy can be over 50.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

I just remember one week ago when the government was asked to save electricity due to the shortage of power.

But hey electric cars are way to go!

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

Electric cars are just a distraction from the West to destroy Toyota as they cannot compete against Toyota's hybrid cars.

But there will be no rare metals for all manufacturers, Lithium, Nickel, and other rare metals like Palladium are getting more and more expensive.

The calculations don't match.

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

t’s too late. Tesla is decades ahead of Japan autos

I do not think it's ever too late when it comes to innovations, one thing Japanese industries have shown is their ability to refine products, to make continual improvements. It could be an Elon Musk sort is currently attending university somewhere in Japan, maybe at MIT or Stanford, or a university not run by the same stuck in the past leaders. Maybe a shift away from ICE's is the spark that is needed. Then hopefully greater improvements in all areas where electricity is required can come about. It's too bad, though that Japan, Inc. has retarded the growth of Japanese technological fields, but then the current leaders are not all that different from the leaders of the 1930s and 1940s who were stuck behind an oil embargo, and seeing a need to invade places like Dutch Indonesia to take their oil. Now the leaders are stuck dealing with the US, Russia and the Gulf kingdoms for their energy needs. Japan needs to break the loop to move into the future. Bushido days are long over, but that should not mean the society has to move away from having Wa bind it together.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Honda needs to revamp its design center, Honda cars are incredibly bad design not to mention the engine in F1 is a complete disaster.

-16 ( +0 / -16 )

The auto industry will go the way of the smartphone industry - one company will have 90% of the profits and the remaining 10% will be shared with the others. Most will bleed money.

tesla will take 40% of the market share and 90% of the profits.

-19 ( +0 / -19 )

No one can deny that Elon Musk is not a good salesperson however Elon Musk makes more money on the stock market instead of making good cars.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

Udondashi

Electric cars are just a distraction from the West to destroy Toyota as they cannot compete against Toyota's hybrid cars.

Huh? That doesn't make any sense.

Toyota isn't the only maker of hybrid vehicles. Almost every car maker has and uses the technology, including Western ones.

It's Toyota that seems not to be willing or able to compete with other makers' BEV technology, both current and planned. And, has only recently announced plans to do so, rather begrudgingly.

Finally, Honda, the focus of this article, is not a Western company.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

TeslaInvestor

The auto industry will go the way of the smartphone industry - one company will have 90% of the profits and the remaining 10% will be shared with the others. Most will bleed money.

tesla will take 40% of the market share and 90% of the profits.

Someone is sniffing battery acid.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Mining for the minerals to make these batteries will be a sore point.

China monopoly?

Also it causes unsightly damage to the earth.

Then, there's the cost of the car and the continual cost of charging the battery.

There are problems with electrical power generation in Japan; one good shake, and you're riding a bicycle.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Right now we got two ongoing wars one in Ukraine and the other is in Yamen and both are funded by OIL MONEY, the good old black gold.

The sooner we are less dependent on oil the less likely these war mongers can start or continue a war.

Like it or not your hard earned money is funding two children and women killing wars machines as we speak.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Necessity being the mother if invention, hopefully this gas price spike will result in some significant gains in battery technology.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

the engine in F1 is a complete disaster.

Honda won the F1 title last year, with Red Bull

5 ( +6 / -1 )

ETHAN1001

500,000 EVs was in 2020. They sold 940,000 in 2021 and are estimated to sell 1.5+ Million this year.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

ETHAN1001

Wow, this article talks about EV but makes no mention of Tesla. Tesla has been the leading seller of fully EVs for the past several years. Tesla sold 501,000 EVs in 2021 and are estimated to sell close to or just over 1 million EVs in 2022. Tesla's technology is ahead of the curve and Tesla is the leading innovator of Electric Vehicles. It's almost as if the Japanese media do not want to mention or cover them! Tesla!

Electric cars are boring to drive and supported with money from the poorest taxpayers.

A true car enthusiast will not stop buying a Ferrari V12 with a combustion engine instead to buy a Tesla.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Udondashi

Electric cars are the ultimate driving experience. Only a Japanese or an oil company shareholder would disagree.

Imagine spending $1 million on a Ferrari only for it to be dusted by a $100K 4-door Tesla Model S.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

But there will be no rare metals for all manufacturers, Lithium, Nickel, and other rare metals like Palladium are getting more and more expensive.

The calculations don't match.

That is because you are not supposed to be able to afford to buy an electric automobile, citizen.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I say stick with public transport, ride a bike or walk. For most people doing most ordinary things, this is easy enough.

But everyone loves their stupid humungous cars 12 times the size of the people inside them.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

So late to the party....

1 ( +3 / -2 )

LMFAO Climate control, environmentalist and what it takes to mine for the minerals to make these batter not forgetting what to do with them after they are depleted and needs disposing. There's your environmental concern. Oh wait just think if 500,000 EVs were so in 2020, and 940,000 in 2021 and there is a estimated projections to sell 1.5+ Million this year. OMG what about the POWER GRID where's the electricity going to come from people are already suffering from power grid rolling black outs. With that said with everyone plugging in their car at night and during the date to recharge, and in the dead heat of the summer with air conditions on talking about GRID LOCK!!! Where's the electrical power going to come from to power all the daily necessities traffic signals etc... All in the name of Climate Control. Well people its time to get back to hunting whales and using the blubber for oil lamps or go into the candle business because we will definitely experience a dark period. There's simply not enough power and the brainless people in charge cannot comprehend this.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I think Honda will do well and might follow in Tesla's foot steps!

0 ( +2 / -2 )

In China, where the move to electric vehicles is especially bullish, Honda is introducing 10 new EV models by 2027.

And this is with their best estimate. Meanwhile, China has more than a dozen makers already producing cars. It's clear that Japanese auto makers will follow in the steps of their consumer electronics counterparts and fall into irrelevance outside of Japan in the next decade.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

In Japan, a market dominated by gas-electric hybrids, Honda will start with small commercial vehicles, such as delivery vans

Ah, those delivery vans are cute and look so environment friendly!

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

I’m looking for a BEV. Especially interested in a yellow plate van. Suzuki Every is what I want. I hope Suzuki follows along quickly.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

LMFAO Climate control, environmentalist and what it takes to mine for the minerals to make these batter not forgetting what to do with them after they are depleted and needs disposing. There's your environmental concern. Oh wait just think if 500,000 EVs were so in 2020, and 940,000 in 2021 and there is a estimated projections to sell 1.5+ Million this year. OMG what about the POWER GRID where's the electricity going to come from people are already suffering from power grid rolling black outs. With that said with everyone plugging in their car at night and during the date to recharge, and in the dead heat of the summer with air conditions on talking about GRID LOCK!!! Where's the electrical power going to come from to power all the daily necessities traffic signals etc... All in the name of Climate Control. Well people its time to get back to hunting whales and using the blubber for oil lamps or go into the candle business because we will definitely experience a dark period. There's simply not enough power and the brainless people in charge cannot comprehend this.

Correct. EV cultists can't see the forest for the trees.

Electric cars are the ultimate driving experience

That's subjective and something that "real" car enthusiasts would disagree with.

There's more to driving than just going fast in a straight line.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

But there will be no rare metals for all manufacturers, Lithium, Nickel, and other rare metals like Palladium are getting more and more expensive.

A Tesla 3 Long Range uses a 1,060-pound battery that contains 25 pounds of lithium, 60 pounds of nickel, 44 pounds of manganese, 30 pounds cobalt, 200 pounds of copper, and 400 pounds of aluminum, steel, and plastic. Inside the battery are something like 6,831 individual lithium-ion cells.

 Looking upstream at the ore grades, it's estimated that the typical quantity of rock that must be extracted from the earth and processed to yield the pure minerals needed to make that single battery is:

 • Lithium brines typically contain less than 0.1% lithium, so that requires some 25,000 pounds of brines to get the 25 pounds of pure lithium.

 • Cobalt ore grades average about 0.1%, thus nearly 30,000 pounds of ore.

 • Nickel ore grades average about 1%, thus about 6,000 pounds of ore.

• Graphite ore is typically 10%, thus about 1,000 pounds per battery.

 • Copper at about 0.6% in the ore, thus about 25,000 pounds of ore per battery.

So in total, acquiring just these five elements to produce the 1,000-pound EV battery requires mining about 90,000 pounds of ore. To properly account for all of the "earth" moved though, which is relevant to the overall environmental footprint, and mining equipment energy use - we need to estimate the materials first dug up to get to the ore (overburden). Depending on ore type and location, overburden ranges from about 3 to 20 tons of earth removed to access each ton of ore.

This means that accessing about 90,000 pounds of ore requires digging and hauling between 200,000 and over 1,500,000 pounds of earth , ****a rough average of more than 500,000 pounds per battery. The precise number will vary for different battery chemistry formulations, and because different areas have variable grades of ores. Note that this total footprint doesn't take into account the large quantities of materials and chemicals used to process and refine all those ores. The other materials used when compared with an ICE car, such as replacing steel with aluminum to offset the weight of the battery, or the supply chain for rare earth elements used in electric motors (neodymium, dysprosium) have not been counted. Also excluded is the related, but non-battery, electrical systems in an EV that use some 300% more overall copper compared to an ICE car.

If recovering minerals hidden in worn-out products such as EV batteries were easier, cheaper, and safer than mining new materials, there would more of it, and it would not need subsidies and mandates to put into effect. While technology, especially automation and robotics, will eventually bring more economically viable (and cleaner) ways to recycle, the challenges are many and progress has been slow. That’s why overall global levels of net recycling of most metals (not just e-waste and green waste) are below 20%, and much lower than those for the rare earths.

The challenge with recycling is the same as in mining itself: a lot depends on concentrations. The concentration of useful minerals in e-waste is very low and often lower than the ore grades of those minerals in rocks. In addition, the physical nature of discarded hardware is highly varied (again, unlike rocks), making it difficult to find simple ways to separate out the minerals.* *Recycling processes are often labor-intensive (thus the pursuit of cheap labor, sometimes child labor overseas) and hazardous because the techniques to burn away unwanted packaging sometimes releases toxic fumes and other waste.

These realities indicate that the efforts expended to recycle minerals can be greater than to get it from nature’s ore.

EV's are not all unicorns and rainbows.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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