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Japanese automakers' sales in China tumble

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Irrespective of a Chinese consumer's feelings toward Japan, it's hard to blame him for not buying a car that could very well be vandalized by a government-instigated mob. Too bad for the 20-something thousand workers at the Toyota plant in China. Nissan should immediately change its nameplates to Renault and hope that France does nothing to infuriate China. I understand that Honda motorcycles assembled in China are being sold in Japan. Hope these are not trashed by Japanese rioters.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

Japanese automakers will now have to find another market to sell their cars. Burma and Malaysia comes to mind. I'm sure Ishihara will pick up the shovel and lead the way because they would have to build the road first in order to sell the automobiles.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Japanese carmakers tumbling sales in China is not vandalized or by a government-instigated mob. Not mob but Chinese patriotism. Not only in automotives. But other Japanese goods and services will tumbles like domino's.. Jaoanese right winger should better wake up specially Mr Ishihara.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

China is not the only market in the world. ............................ Besides, Japanese technology remains cutting edge so staying innovative will help hold it market competitiveness in any indusry - including the auto industry..

-4 ( +7 / -11 )

Charles de Gaulle said "Patriotism is when the love of your own people comes first. Nationalism is when the hatred of people other than your own comes first." You said Chinese patriotism. I don't think so.

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Altruist777 : "Nationalism is when the hatred of people other than your own comes first." You said Chinese patriotism. I don't think so:" GOOD POINT.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

. ...........................and then there is NISSAN gobbling up the European car market . .................................. So alls not doom and gloom because of Chinese impetuosity.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Kinda surprised at the level of the Chinese boycott. First airlines, tourism and then cars. Well it looks like the Japanese can look for other markets while the Chinese buy BMW and mercedes.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Thanks, Ishihara! You may not be a good diplomatic statesman, but at least you've got your pride...and its attachment to the country's economy. That's got to count for something, somewhere.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

So, how much oil and gas do they expect to get out of the waters around these spots in the ocean? This downward trend will continue and continue to get worse as time goes on. This wanton need to keep these specs off the coast of Taiwan is going to cost Japan a lot more than they will ever get back from exploiting these islets and the waters surrounding them. They are just so bloody foolish!

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Does Ishihara have any comment on this? Anyone heard anything?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

In China foreign business ventures are typically at least 50 - 50 ventures. . . . . .so the sales-plummet for Jcars in China will hit thousands of Chinese workers hard , especially as car manufacturing plants cut back on production & workers .......................Not to mention the car parts industry that had a large base in China and other automobile-related industries . . . . ....................The Chinese govt is shooting it self in the foot. . .GO FIGURE !!!! --:

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

semperfi -- First off, re-read the aricle and put the numbers in there in perspective. The analyst predicted that Japanese car companies would sell 3.04 million cars in China this year. The entire Japanese market is only aroud 4.0 million. You just don't replace that market, certainly not with "Burma and Malaysia". Second, your comment about Nissan "gobbling up the European market" is meaningless, since the overall European market is down and cannot be expected to grow any time soon. Finally, your platitude about Japanese technology coming to the rescue is just hot-air. Japanese technology is not helping it right now in electronics is it? Japan is paying the price for over fifty years of arrogance and unwillingness to truly settle isues from the past with its neighbors.

10 ( +15 / -5 )

Charles de Gaulle said "Patriotism is when the love of your own people comes first. Nationalism is when the hatred of people other than your own comes first." You said Chinese patriotism. I don't think so.

I would say that there are elements of both.

The Chinese had been buying a lot more Japanese cars before this incident happened, and popular sentiment is that the government of Japan is surreptitiously stealing their territory instead of abiding by the tacit assent to negotiate proposed by Deng.

It doesn't matter to them that the national government bought the islands in order to keep populist provocateur Ishihara from buying them and causing more trouble, because the national government has adopted the stance that there is no dispute.

Unless the Japanese can convince China to resolve this through the ICJ, then they are going to be very hard pressed to contain the damage to Japanese companies doing business in Japan.

Incidentally, who is (was) Japan's biggest trading partner?

Regardless of where you stand on the dispute, this was just incredibly inept in terms of diplomacy.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

"It doesn't matter to them that the national government bought the islands in order to keep populist provocateur Ishihara from buying them and causing more trouble, because the national government has adopted the stance that there is no dispute."

I think, this is clear, and I also think that the Japanese government was hoping China to understand the inner motives. China is behaving not very wise in the entire current conflict.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Japan will not recover from this, and it's amazing when you think that one man's nationalism and greed started the whole thing. Ishihara wants "The Japan that said 'NO'", but thanks to him it's going to be the Japan that has to beg and bend over.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Interesting how some people are stating this is hurting china. Japan needs the Chinese market more than the Chinese need Japanese cars. There are many of other car manufacturers ready to jump in and fill the void. Hyundai, Kia and Deawio just to name a few. Japan has shot themselves in their foolish little foot by screwing with its largest trading partner at a time when Japan needs to globalize its economy. You can also be assured the Japanese car companies are only the start. There will ne many other industries start to boycott Japanese products. All for the sake of a few specs of rock a thousand kilometers away. Well done Japan! As usual, you may win the battle, but you will lose the war. Fools!

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Yeap, obvious news!

1 ( +1 / -0 )

ubikwit

It doesn't matter to them that the national government bought the islands in order to keep populist provocateur Ishihara from buying them and causing more trouble, because the national government has adopted the stance that there is no dispute.

Actually, Ishihara and Noda are just just playing a political "Kabuki" for an international audience - the goal is to nationalize the islands, but first, a good cop-bad cop act. It would have been easy to stop Ishihara if Noda really wanted to deescalate - simply ban the sales transaction. In many ways, nationalizing the islands is worse as it is now a matter of fact that the SDF and Japanese Navy is patrolling the seas right off Taiwan and China, as a large part of Taiwan's and China's sea coast now "belong" to Japan.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

If you go through Nissan & Toyota web site you'll find that approx. 125 thousand are employed at their manufacturing facilities alone not including retail outlets or HQ if you add Honda, Mazda and Mitsubishi with all the sales staff the number would probably total to around 1~2 million people. If the pay tax at an average of 2000USD annually that adds up to 3 billion USD lost from income tax and an additional 3 billion would also be lost in unemployment insurance and pension.

This is not chump change that is for sure.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

antolop111Oct. 09, 2012 - 04:40PM JST Japanese carmakers tumbling sales in China is not vandalized or by a government-instigated mob. Not mob but >Chinese patriotism. Not only in automotives. But other Japanese goods and services will tumbles like domino's.. >Jaoanese right winger should better wake up specially Mr Ishihara.

As long as there are china supporters who advocate the forced "Patriotic Education" which is clearly nothing more than natiomaoism, racisdm and hatred, China will remaion a backwards uncivilized country that wll never be trusted by the rest of the world.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Forget about China government or patroitism kind of issue, It will be dealers or salesmen of non- jp vehicles who will keep whispering/ reminding their customers how bad idea it is to purchase jp cars, and of course not only car, dealers of all other products won't forget to take this chance!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Some may not like this but the Chinese car buyers will benefit the most if they have patience. Imagine the yr old models sitting on the dealer's lots, I can imagine some huge price discount coming their way. Assuming the dispute over the rock will be over soon , that is...................

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I perfectly understand the Chinese for not wanting to buy Japanese cars.I was doing the same for Chinese products in Japan, avoiding them as much as possible.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Ossan:As long as there are china supporters who advocate the forced "Patriotic Education" which is clearly nothing more than natiomaoism, racisdm and hatred

I really don't understand why patroitism is becoming so bad thing like racisdm and hatred? Actually, one thing that Chinese and American are very alike today is both of them are very patriotic and following their government properganda so unweaveringly. I don't mean that china commie don't deserve to be critisized but it's not point here! because I found governments of China or the US or even Mr Ishihara all ask their people to be PATRIOTIC.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

All readers back on topic please. Posts that do not focus on Japanese automakers' sales in China will be removed.

DisillusionedOCT. 09, 2012 - 09:33PM JST Interesting how some people are stating this is hurting china. Japan needs the Chinese market more than the Chinese need Japanese cars. There are many of other car manufacturers ready to jump in and fill the void. Hyundai, Kia and Deawio just to name a few. Japan has shot themselves in their foolish little foot by screwing with its largest trading partner at a time when Japan needs to globalize its economy. You can also be assured the Japanese car companies are only the start. There will ne many other industries start to boycott Japanese products. All for the sake of a few specs of rock a thousand kilometers away. Well done Japan! As usual, you may win the battle, but you will lose the war. Fools!

Most of the cars sold in China are made in China. IMF predicted today a continued drop in Chinas economic growth, down to 7.8%, the lowest in nearly 14 years and it is predicted to drop further. THIS IS SERIOUS FOR THE AVERAGE CHINESE WORKER.

Japan's outlook is still at a sluggish 1.2% which it has roughly been at for the last 20 years. The US is about the same. SO NO CHANGE OR INPACT THERE.

The EU on the other hand is going backwards.

Any fool that thinks China does not need every single job and business deal is an idiot. China has the most to lose out off all the world players. Many Chinese (unskilled labour) workers DO NOT have the savings as those in other countries that have and they need to work.

As I have said before, China's labour cost is growing at a rapid rate, and many multinational are already moving their operations else where.

NO ONE COUNTRY IS BIGGER OR STRONGER THAN OUR NOW EXTREMELY INTERTWINED GLOBEL ECONOMY.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

China is not the only market in the world. ............................ Besides, Japanese technology remains cutting edge so staying innovative will help hold it market competitiveness in any indusry - including the auto industry..

You are joking, right? Where? you will need to find +10 other countries whose Combined population exceed that of 1.3 ppl in China. And there are competitions everywhere. As to innovation, China's companies are increasing their R&D budget, and in just 2-3 yrs you will see much innovation coming out of China.

As I mentioned in another thread, this does notbode well for Japan, for this is just the beginning of a new phase where Chinese ppl will strive for their own internal development.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

In China foreign business ventures are typically at least 50 - 50 ventures. . . . . .so the sales-plummet for Jcars in China will hit thousands of Chinese workers hard , especially as car manufacturing plants cut back on production & workers .......................Not to mention the car parts industry that had a large base in China and other automobile-related industries . . . . ....................The Chinese govt is shooting it self in the foot. . .GO FIGURE !!!! --:

Your logic is absolutely flawed. Any sales lost in Toyota, Honda, Nissan will then be PICKED up by Geely and other car companies in China, including Korean and German companies. In order to fill these New demands, they will hire more workers! ahh! but where? From those workers being laid off by those big 3 Japanese car companies!

Who will lose money? Those OWNERS (Chinese + Japanese) of those big 3, and eventually they will have to sell their plants to other car companies!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

some people are stating this is hurting china...

I have to agree that boycotting Japanese goods isn't going to hurt China in the short term. The Japanese companies will feel it first. But then they will furlough the Chinese workers in their factories. Other countries will realize that having factories in China is a bigger risk than they thought - like Apple is thinking about Foxconn right now. They will build new factories in Cambodia or India. In the long run it won't be good for the Chinese either.

You also have to look at what the Chinese can learn from the Japanese about how to run a factory. But since the rule of law is so capricious in China it probably wouldn't help anyway. As somebody who has had subassemblies fail because a Chinese company decided to change a material for a gear and not tell anybody all I can say is that Chinese quality and contracts are always suspect. Good luck to everybody stuck there.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I have to agree that boycotting Japanese goods isn't going to hurt China in the short term. The Japanese companies will feel it first. But then they will furlough the Chinese workers in their factories. Other countries will realize that having factories in China is a bigger risk than they thought - like Apple is thinking about Foxconn right now. They will build new factories in Cambodia or India. In the long run it won't be good for the Chinese either.

Not really. Foreign companies Already knew about possible problems in China, yet they chose to invest in China, because China has the infrastructure + labor + rules that are good enough to operate sound business enterprises.

It is actually good that companies are investing in India, Cambodia etc.. as this will push China;s own companies to innovate and accelerate China's INTERNAL economy.

You also have to look at what the Chinese can learn from the Japanese about how to run a factory. But since the rule of law is so capricious in China it probably wouldn't help anyway. As somebody who has had subassemblies fail because a Chinese company decided to change a material for a gear and not tell anybody all I can say is that Chinese quality and contracts are always suspect. Good luck to everybody stuck there.

China is moving towards its Internal economy:

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-09/26/c_123766523.htm

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90778/7966979.html

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Here is the bottom line: so far, the Japan gov has shot itself on the foot, and Japan is the bigger loser in this dilemma as trades and diplomatic relationship are going downhill.

Deng-Tanaka decided to shelve this issue as their wisdoms were not enough to solve it then. Yet, the current Japan gov wanted to show its ww2 imperialistic behavior, unfortunately.

At the end of the day: Big 3 car companies from japan are losing big time, not to mention countless other enterprises, too.

Whats next? Both sides are trying their best not to escalate to military confrontation. That is good. So the victims are then: diplomatic relations and Trades. Japan has now lost its Goodwill among chinese ppl, and therefore they wont be buying anymore japanese products. Thats a fair analysis.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

I believe Chinese car buyers are concerning of attack by mob rather than boycotting Japanese products. They are afraid of mob burning down their new Japanese cars. As the result of anti Japan riot, I’m sure Chinese employees will lose their over time income and some non permanent employees of company will lose job. Communist Chinese Leaders will never learn their mistake and no one dare to talk them in Communist country. Now overall foreign investment in Communist China is dropping. How long Communist Government can hanging on its economy without new investment from foreign countries?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Let the buy Korean cars or government motors cars. What Japan needs to understand is you do not have to dominate to be successful. Having a steady customer pool is better than taking high risks that will fail. Japan auto companies need to reduce if not stop selling vehicles in the Peoples Republic of China. If it were not the islands it would be another excuse. Something would "enrage" the population of China (both). Since it is a decision from the governments to use riot as a plan, there is nothing Japan can do to stop it.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

The only message China will understand is a boycott. Will the Japanese give up shopping at the 100 yen store. No. Will Americans stop shopping at Wal-mart? No. It is human nature to get the lowest price.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

There has been sudden increase in sales of Korean and U.S. cars. Although Hyundai makes decent cars, they are copied from Japan and Germany. There is no originality from Korea. GM has enjoyed increase in sales in China, but long term reliability might be a problem. Eventually, when the dust settles, the public understands the good quality the Japanese cars are and they will come back to buy.

The protestors were assembled and paid to demonstrate by the Chinese government just to make it look like the average chinese gives a damn and also to gain support from the uninformed Chinese public and the world. The average Chinese is too busy working at the factories to be protesting. If the chinese government has to try to manipulate world opinion for heir case, then their case may must be weak. The Chinese media reports it like they are real protestors.

The U.S. response to China’s behavior will be key to how the Far East continues to adapt to a rapidly changing balance of power in the region. The U.S. will attempt to contain China’s power in the region through bi-lateral partnerships and Japan will likely re-militarize to some degree. China will resist what it perceives to be a strategic encirclement, and the region will increasingly fill with tension. The U.S. should avoid being drawn into a new cold war/arms race with China, but instead serve as a framer and mediator of the region’s issues.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

There has been sudden increase in sales of Korean and U.S. cars. Although Hyundai makes decent cars, they are copied from Japan and Germany. There is no originality from Korea. GM has enjoyed increase in sales in China, but long term reliability might be a problem. Eventually, when the dust settles, the public understands the good quality the Japanese cars are and they will come back to buy.

Not really. China's car companies have increased their R&D and innovation. The ppl WILL realize that Chinese cars will be Just As Good As other cars, incl. Japan's and GM. Just an example: http://bottomline.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/17/13921640-how-china-can-build-a-7000-good-enough-car?lite

The protestors were assembled and paid to demonstrate by the Chinese government just to make it look like the average chinese gives a damn and also to gain support from the uninformed Chinese public and the world. The average Chinese is too busy working at the factories to be protesting. If the chinese government has to try to manipulate world opinion for heir case, then their case may must be weak. The Chinese media reports it like they are real protestors.

Can you actually prove conclusively what you stated? You never heard of Arab Spring, demonstrations in Occupy Wall St, Greece and Spain demonstrations. The Chinese ppl using weibo and social networking also knew how to organize their own grassrooot movement.

The U.S. response to China’s behavior will be key to how the Far East continues to adapt to a rapidly changing balance of power in the region. The U.S. will attempt to contain China’s power in the region through bi-lateral partnerships and Japan will likely re-militarize to some degree. China will resist what it perceives to be a strategic encirclement, and the region will increasingly fill with tension. The U.S. should avoid being drawn into a new cold war/arms race with China, but instead serve as a framer and mediator of the region’s issues.

Nothing is gonna happen there, there wont be any war over Diaoyu issue. Cool heads will prevail , but damages have been done. I actually see the rise of China's own "Boeing", "Lockheed Martin", "Northtrop" etc whereby China will follow what the US did post-ww2 where the US economy was booming like crazy due to its military industrialization.

Note: for each 1 job in the US Big 3 car companies, 5 Other jobs are connected.. and logically for each job in the US Big 3 Military/defense companies there are ALSO 5 other jobs connected. Thus, if/when China has its own "Big 3" defense companies, too, its economy will blossom tremendously.

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mano2012Oct. 10, 2012 - 04:22AM JST Not really. China's car companies have increased their R&D and innovation. The ppl WILL realize that Chinese cars will be Just As Good As other cars, incl. Japan's and GM.

The average cars have 20,000 to 30,000 parts to make one car. Sure, Chinese car manufacturer is making a progress, but to say they are just as good as Japan and U.S. cars are far from the truth. The real value of the car is the price of the 5 years old Toyota to 5 years old Chinese made cars. Used 5 years or 10 years old Chinese cars are worthless. If Chinese can make comparable cars, what do Chinese have that is comparable to Lexus LS460, Camry, BMW 328, Audi A4 or GM's Cadillac? Chinese have none.

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The average cars have 20,000 to 30,000 parts to make one car. Sure, Chinese car manufacturer is making a progress, but to say they are just as good as Japan and U.S. cars are far from the truth. The real value of the car is the price of the 5 years old Toyota to 5 years old Chinese made cars. Used 5 years or 10 years old Chinese cars are worthless. If Chinese can make comparable cars, what do Chinese have that is comparable to Lexus LS460, Camry, BMW 328, Audi A4 or GM's Cadillac? Chinese have none.

I gave u just 1 (ONE) example, that that $7K is just as good as its comparable competition. My point is: their R&D innovated using simulation to test car crashes! and thus reduced costs and further advances the science of collision.

There is no question that not all cars from Geely can match Toyota's, but as to the question of value, "branding" is a matter of marketing, a handbag from Gucci is actually not that different from similar good quality ones,but its VALUE will alwys be much more due to "perceived" value by consumers.

You are just looking at the present.. dont u think that the board of directors of China's own companies are not agressively pursuing their own "lexus", 'bmw" etc?? it's only logical and just a matter of time that those cars will come out within a few years..

now that lexus etc are having troubles with sales,, those china's car companies see HUGE HUGE opportunities to create their own HIGH-end, using much more quality (pricey) parts, and why not.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

mano2012Oct. 10, 2012 - 05:13AM JST There is no question that not all cars from Geely can match Toyota's, but as to the question of value, "branding" is a matter of marketing, a handbag from Gucci is actually not that different from similar good quality ones,but its VALUE will alwys be much more due to "perceived" value by consumers.

None of the Geely can match Toyota. It's not that easy. Facts are Geely is in the crap entry level with hardly no options, similar to what Hyundai went through in the 80's by using old 4 cylinder outdated engine designed by Mitubishi. Look at how long Korean makers took to get to this level. 30 years? The entry level Chinese cars will be accepted by Chinese consumers only because of the low price. You cannot fool the consumers. Real value of the cars are made by consumers and you can usually tell by the resale value. Do you want 5 years old Geely?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

China will definitely place the islands above all other considerations, including adverse economic conditions, Japanese business investments in car factories and these jobs, etc., not because of the oil and gas as claimed, but because with these islands as its territory, Japan's Navy will be patrolling up and down China's only access to the ocean and its lifeline for import & export. The map says it all, and shows which country is encroaching upon the other.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

And no, China is way behind Japan, Germany and the US for quality of cars because its market is mainly domestic & developing nations, and costs have to be kept low for the foreseeable future. China is also focused on rail as its key infrastructure, not vehicles or planes, so there's little government support for the sector.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

None of the Geely can match Toyota. It's not that easy. Facts are Geely is in the crap entry level with hardly no options, similar to what Hyundai went through in the 80's by using old 4 cylinder outdated engine designed by Mitubishi. Look at how long Korean makers took to get to this level. 30 years? The entry level Chinese cars will be accepted by Chinese consumers only because of the low price. You cannot fool the consumers. Real value of the cars are made by consumers and you can usually tell by the resale value. Do you want 5 years old Geely?

Sorry I disagree. Your thinking is not progressive and think that engineers would just use linear thinking and progress in the same fashion over the last 30 yrs. It is NOT. Engineers are using "revolutionary" methods: new materials, computer simulations, etc..etc tens and hundreds of 2012-tech innovations.

You proved my point by saying: "Chinese cars will be accepted by Chinese consumers only because of the low price.

That to me, is Good enough.. it has reached Beyond step #1. It's only a matter of time.. within 2-3 yrs that u WILL see better cars coming out of China's own car manufacturing..

note: I would Not be surprised if inthe background China gov is now giving incentives to those car companies so that they can increase their R&D budget..

dont look at just today.. think about just 2-3 yrs from now..

this is now a game-changing situation. and it it URGENT.. the china car companies know that!!! and they will make sure that those big 3 japan car companies are pushed aside.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

mano2012 Oct. 10, 2012 - 05:31AM JST Sorry I disagree. Your thinking is not progressive and think that engineers would just use linear thinking and progress in the same fashion over the last 30 yrs. It is NOT. Engineers are using "revolutionary" methods: new materials, computer simulations, etc..etc tens and hundreds of 2012-tech innovations.

The common excuse I've heard is a car is a car no matter.. Fair arguement...Right? Wrong. No doubt, maybe one day China automakers will get it right.. maybe, don't hold your breath or else you might turn blue... But so long they cut and paste designs from other well knowns and don't pass the International test circuit and crash test, they will continue putting unsafe cars and not to mention ugly on the roads. Don't be a repeat offender, don't be a victim. Save up, get a car that both you and your family deserve. Both reliable & safe.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

mano2012...You have to remember that for most Chinese consumers, it's the first time they purchase a car. Compare to the experience West, they really don't have any experience and do not fully understand what a good car is. Wait until they drive the Geely for 5-10 years and find out what a crap car this is. Word will get around quickly and these Chinese consumers will get smarter and will make better judgement on what to buy.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

mano2012...You have to remember that for most Chinese consumers, it's the first time they purchase a car. Compare to the experience West, they really don't have any experience and do not fully understand what a good car is. Wait until they drive the Geely for 5-10 years and find out what a crap car this is. Word will get around quickly and these Chinese consumers will get smarter and will make better judgement on what to buy.

Im not a marketing guy, but im sure the markets are segmented into a pie-chart, e.g

50% would buy a good-enough car ? 25% for higher price car? 15% for foreign-made (affiliated with china's companies) cars? 10 for luxury cars?

But I can assure you that the sub $10K car made from China's wholly owned companies are perhaps 5 (FIVE) times better than the Japanese CRAPPY cars of the 1960s -- you can google the history about Japanese cars of the 1960s!

But these are the keys to the future:

"Zhejiang Geely Holding Group Co, one of China's biggest car makers, conducted 20 to 25 crash tests when it developed its popular Panda model, engineers involved in developing the car told Reuters. Global car makers typically conduct 125 to 150 crash tests for each new model. By relying more on computer simulations, Geely saved at least 200 million yuan ($31.57 million) and two years in development time on the Panda, the engineers said."

""This is a warning shot to the established engineers who have told their management time and time and again that this is the minimum cost they can achieve with their existing design and production methodology," says Shiro Nakamura, a top Nissan Motor Co. executive and the company's chief designer. "Now the Chinese are saying they can cut another 30, 40 percent of the cost."

http://bottomline.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/17/13921640-how-china-can-build-a-7000-good-enough-car?lite

--

im confident that within just 2-3 yrs you will see much much more innovation coming out of china's car companies.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

mano2012 Oct. 10, 2012 - 07:53AM JST But I can assure you that the sub $10K car made from China's wholly owned companies are perhaps 5 (FIVE) times better than the Japanese CRAPPY cars of the 1960s -- you can google the history about Japanese cars of the 1960s!

I wouldn't call it crappy. Actually there was alot of innovation on small engine development by the Japanese companies in the 1960's. At the time, Toyota and Datsun already had over 30 years experience in small engine technology. They had some fine cars like the Toyota 2000, Datsun 1600, Mazda rotary sports car. U.S. was making large V8 and inline 6 cylinders and no mass produced 4 cylinders in the 60's, so they had to rely on their experience. They also had very good manual gear box.The Toyota and Datsun actually made very good original small 4 cylinder SOHC engines for the time. Toyo Kyogo (Mazda), actually had nice wankel engine with their Cosmo cars.

There is no innovation by Geely, but just the copy design and parts. Nothing new. Geely reminds me of Yugo from Yugoslavia in the 70's. What a boring car.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

China's car companies are making innovation left and right. Just as you described about some of the things Japanese cars had in the 1960s, the 2012 cars coming out of China's car factories have products from new materials science, simulations using supercomputers, green tech (byd to name one), and cars are being Exported to many countries. lol. yugo is like 1/100th of any China cars today.

lol. keep saying that Geely does not innovate when a top Nissan executive has said otherwise. As i said, all in al, and unfortunately, this is really really bad news for the big 3 japanese car companies. Ishihara has become china car companies hero ;)

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

mano2012...do you work for Geely? Sounds like you are on payroll for Geely.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

mano2012Oct. 10, 2012 - 08:26AM JST. China's car companies are making innovation left and right.

Correct way to say it is China's car companies are copying left and right. Copying is not innovation. It's using other manufacturers design without paying for it. It's call stealing. Sounds like Geely. How many Geely's will be a collectors car in the future? The Rare Japanese 1967 Toyota 2000 GT Hits eBay for $650,000 - NYTimes.com.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

i bought some geely shares a few years ago and sold at a nice profit ;) so yeah i know enough about geely. geely is a Star indeed and there are other car companies rising up.

If i were a japanese executive, of any company not just cars, i'd be really worried! As i said it involves Goodwill when consumers buying a product, and now that Goodwill is lost! and perhaps almost impossible to reverse it as all kinds of companies inside china (incl. korean, german./eu, usa subsidiaries) are now rushing rapidly to displace any products that are made by japan companies. I dont see how marketing or even P.R. can solve this huge problem for japanese companies..

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

lol i dont discount that japanese cars have good qualities, but i dont see your points of discounting excellent geely's R&D projects mentioned in the link you read! Yeah keep thinking like that, i would like that very much ;) Im not interested in collector items, im looking at the bigger picture about how things progress, and trust me car executives in japan CANT sleep at night.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Geely sells subcompact cars in emerging markets like Russia, Turkey and Venezuela. It doesn't sell Geely brand cars in the U.S. because its quality standards don't match U.S. safety and other standards. China is known for the cheapest, quickest, sometimes poor quality products. The biggest issue would be quality control. If that goes downhill, that would kill the brand in the foreign sales. Geely's basic cars are sold for $6-7K each, and the company is still viewed as a low-end car maker. It's well known in China, but it doesn't have strong brand equity. If they buy a brand, they can get instant credibility. For Volvo (recently acquired by Geely) this could be a positive because Chinese consumers would feel proud to buy a Chinese-made Volvo car.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Geely has only one model tested for the EuroNCAP testing, in fact there is only one model tested from all the manufacturers in China.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Every industry goes thru its own innovation and phases. Chinese ppl, themselves are workers of these car companies incl. professionals such as engineers and designers etc are having more confidence in the quality of their cars, and the cars companies know that quality & safety are most important factors incl. price. Many ppl in the west still have the wrong perception about china and thought it is still the cheap good ole manufacturing giant, when in fact china has been moving towards the next generation of its economic model emphasizing on innovation, higher R&D, value-added products and research-intensive companies.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Probably the ONLY products that can't be replaced are the digital SLR only.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"Irrespective of a Chinese consumer's feelings toward Japan, it's hard to blame him for not buying a car that could very well be vandalized by a government-instigated mob"

Admittedly the above could be one of respects but can hardly be convincing enough to explain the magic of mobilizing hundreds of million consumers' collective boycotting acts. When it comes to massive loss of an estimted ~10% of China's total market share ( 50% of 21% held by J Brands ) that puts absolute number to million in a full year...today's Chinese consumers, despite the power of C Govt's propaganda, constitute individuals who spend as per personal preference ( brands, style, gas milage, value for the money etc embraced within an overall J image )... No national would support a country-brands that are perceived to unfairly hostile towards their own country..example, have you observed how many J cars on the road in Seoul ? ( really have to be patient to do the counting at road side ! ). May be J car manufacturers had to export from their US plants using American brands !?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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