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Japanese firms look at other countries as alternatives to China

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By Shingo Ito

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© 2012 AFP

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"Sentiment toward Japan is not so bad there," he said.

So the policy is "let's find the a place that hates us the least." Maybe an examination of the core reasons behind such sentiment would be a more effective solution.

-16 ( +8 / -24 )

best candidates are Malaysia & Vietnam, then Thailand, Philippines, Indonesia where coup d'etat sometimes happen. Myanmar may be ok, but still risky. They are politically unstable.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

The Malaysian and Singaporean hate your guts. The Filipinos are a lazy bunch and there's not much they can do there, not including the Muslim terrorism that goes on in the outskirts. The Thai, well you saw the flooding and riots. Vietnam is another communist state that hates you. Myanmar is a military state and the staunchest ally of China. IF China says, no import from Myanmar to China, your companies and investments die immediately in the former Burma.

Honestly speaking, if you want to tap the Chinese market, you have no where to go but India. But Indians like the Koreans a lot more than you people, so you are at a huge disadvantage there. And right now, the Chinese don't want you in their country. Its not about your assessment of risks of doing business in China. Its about China and the Chinese kicking you out. Two completely different circumstances. Get that through your self-obsessive skull of yours. Your Business and investments are unwanted in China. Leave now and American businesses and European businesses will replace you immediately. Like I said, everything you make are completely replaceable. At the end of the day, you lose a 1.4 billion consumer market. Your loss. Our gain.

-31 ( +6 / -37 )

Kazuo Omori who for many years dedicated in teaching Japanese language and culture to Chinese young generations to promote friendship and mutual understanding between the two countries stated in a NHK radio program early this morning that even before the trouble of this time happened, those who tried to learn Japanese were verbally attacked by others as traitors. Probably the bad image about Japan is deeply carved in their minds through their school textbooks. It is a sad thing but we have to keep it in mind and have to treat them even more politely and carefully.

5 ( +6 / -2 )

I'm glad this might be happening. I hope all of them leave China. Hypocritical Chinese saying they hate Japan, then going back to work at Japanese factories are dumb.

If China continues to make it hard for Japanese firms in China, with the customs problems, and riots breaking out every few years, it should be seen as a message that China isn't ready to be a first world country yet.

13 ( +17 / -4 )

Those (Chinese) who tried to learn Japanese were verbally attacked by others as traitors.

And yet Chinese students are by far the most numerous foreign students in Japan, and the number is rising. Do they all expect to live the life of traitors once they return home?

No. 2 is S. Koreans, about a quarter of the Chinese number, but they and most other countries' students are falling in number in Japan.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

Put your factories in the USA.... labor costs are cheap and Americans need jobs badly.

17 ( +18 / -2 )

Only animals go on the attack without thought. It just seems that China, per capita, has more animals in its ranks. Whether one wishes to look at this as a country that is unstable considering the government of the day seems to be part of the problem and label it a third world country or not seems fair game. China has never shown its self in the last 40 years to be anything but unstable. Human rights issues top the list but seeing its people running around uncontrolled and even aided by the government is a clear sign of a third world country.

9 ( +13 / -4 )

Time to get our investment out of China and into other asian countries which would be better in the long term. Not only to safe guard our assets from the Chinese but also to get out before their economy eventually collapses which it will.

9 ( +12 / -3 )

No Japan will understand why it is important to have good relations with China!

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

A message has to be sent. Everyone knows that the government approves protests and assigns people to them or they are not allowed. China needs to know that if it is not going to protect Japanese interest or Chinese companies that appear to be Japanese, then the only civilized action Japan can take is to have sanctions against China. Japan is not going to allow fire bombing and other such violent protests against Chinese interest. If it did, where would go for Chinese food tonight?!

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Hardly surprising because workers on the mainland can be unreliable and incompetent at the best of times. I remember some hair-raising stupidity when I worked at a company with a subsidiary there. They do learn but is it worth waiting for with what's going on now?

The recent thuggish behavior shown by some may prove to be the last straw for some.

I think Japanese companies should look elsewhere myself. Singapore and Malaysia hate Japan? So what? Money talks. Saw a few managers from there in China supervising their less educated brethren. And Filipinos are lazy? Compared to the Chinese? Ha! Vietnam looks pretty good too. Japan and Vietnam have stronger ties than most realize. Let's not forget that Japan is not the only country that' has problems with China.

China has become the menace that replaced the Soviet Union. Time for the other East Asian countries to join together.

11 ( +13 / -2 )

@Probie

If China continues to make it hard for Japanese firms in China, with the customs problems, and riots breaking out every few years, it should be seen as a message that China isn't ready to be a first world country yet.

I agree. China has made a lot of progress but if its willing to flush that down the toilet, other countries shouldn't get dragged down the sewers with them.

It won't be long before the business community start ringing the alarm bells when foreign investment decreases. As I said above, money talks.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

I agree Hinku, put your factories in USA. Our blue-collar labor jobs are cheaper than Japan and we don't have the same political baggage as you do. So c'mon in.

-9 ( +3 / -12 )

@callmeBe

I'm a Malaysian, but I can assure you we don't hate the Japanese. In fact, we view Japanese favorably. Japanese investment in Malaysia is welcome, and we even have 'Look east Policy' whereby the government is sending students to study in Japan since 1980s (now the government is also sending students to SK under this policy)

18 ( +18 / -0 )

Firstly, the islands in question have been on Chinese maritime maps as Chinese territory since the Qing dynasty, about five hundred years ago. Secondly, when diplomatic relations were re-established between China and Japan in 1972, both leaders agreed that discussion of the sovereignty of the islands could be decided by later generations, putting aside the issue that Japan seized islands during the first Sino-Japanese war (1895). The islands are geographically much closer to China than mainland Japan (Okinawa also used to be part of China). In addition, the suspension of the rare earth exports to Japan was retaliatory measure, not for the collision between the Japanese coastguard vessel and the Chinese fishing boat, but for the fact that the then Japanese government lied to the Chinese government in their apology, and the truth of the collision was revealed when the coastguard video was put up on YouTube. The Japanese coastguard, risking their lives on the high seas, quite understandably being irritated that office dwelling bureaucrats in Tokyo should lay the blame on them, and chose to post the video. From what I have seen in Chinese media, their nation has taken a defensive stance and have reacted diplomatically in disbelief, as has been pointed out in the English language Chinese media: why would the Japanese government choose to buy something they in effect already own? Historically China has been painfully aware of what has happened when Japan makes a land grab on Chinese territory, and the denial of the events of 1937 in Nanjing by the mayor of Nagoya (a city twinned with Nanjing until the mayor's denial of the events), and the support of this by Mr Ishihara has been met with stunned incredulity in the Chinese media. China has spent the last twenty years or so doing its best to make friends with many nations, particularly African nations. Japan does not seem to have bothered getting on good terms with their neighbors, and this Daioyu islands incident does seem to be an example of this mindset.

-10 ( +2 / -12 )

The only logical answer to help Japan, is MEXICO!!! Mexico already has many, many Japanese factories, etc. Make more Japanese factories in Mexico, bring them over CHINA and this will not only help Japan, but also the USA and not to mention Mexico, yes ONLY LOGICAL answer, so please stop joking that Singapore is going to help, since it is a TINY island and no more room for anything there unless the Chinese go to war with the Malaysians for more land??

3 ( +4 / -1 )

The Malaysian and Singaporean hate your guts. The Filipinos are a lazy bunch and there's not much they can do there, not including the Muslim terrorism that goes on in the outskirts. The Thai, well you saw the flooding and riots. Vietnam is another communist state that hates you. Myanmar is a military state and the staunchest ally of China. IF China says, no import from Myanmar to China, your companies and investments die immediately in the former Burma.

Honestly speaking, if you want to tap the Chinese market, you have no where to go but India. But Indians like the Koreans a lot more than you people, so you are at a huge disadvantage there. And right now, the Chinese don't want you in their country. Its not about your assessment of risks of doing business in China. Its about China and the Chinese kicking you out. Two completely different circumstances. Get that through your self-obsessive skull of yours. Your Business and investments are unwanted in China. Leave now and American businesses and European businesses will replace you immediately. Like I said, everything you make are completely replaceable. At the end of the day, you lose a 1.4 billion consumer market. Your loss. Our gain.

Wow, edgy post. Made me laugh. You do realize that Japanese investment in China has been a MASSIVE factor in pulling millions and millions of people up out of the proverbial gutter in terms of living standard don't you. ? Their own pathetically backwards and corrupt regime haven't done a whole lot for the common man on the street in China, it's been foreign investment,nous,technology and power that has achieved it,,,largely Japanese at that. It must really irk the hell out of Chinese with chips on their shoulders to know this. Please tell me more about all these American and European businesses that will replace the Japanese ones when they are gone,,,,I'd like another laugh.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

Hi, what about send all this job to Brazil? There is 200 million of people there and near 2.000.000 million of Japanese decendants.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Tandoori nacho, excuse me contradicting you, but the Chinese government have, within the last year, raised the official poverty line enabling many millions more Chinese citizens the opportunity to receive government welfare. Their government does consider the lot of the "common man".

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Yeah, Mexico would be OK. But any place where the government doesn't stuff people's heads with hatred would be a good start.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

American and European businesses already have substantial investment in China, in manufacturing and distribution, research and development, and construction. Examples: Volkswagen, Elders, Ikea, Mercedes Benz, Kraft Foods, Heineken, GlaxoSmithKlein, Apple. Japanese investment into China is relatively new compared to other nations. Germans set up the first European brewery in Qingdao and French expertise was used to establish vineyards in China over a century ago. The concept of Made In China is of course nothing new when one considers the historical trade of spices and silk with Europe, and whilst certainly Japanese business protocols such as punctuality and reliability have been difficult for Chinese staff to assimilate, China does have many more centuries of experience than Japan in actually doing business with, and getting along with, other nations.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

China's leaders should take note. You can score points short term by being foreigner-bashing. US presidential hopefuls and politicos do it every four years, two if you're in Congress. But you shouldn't expect such idiotic frenzy-whipping over long periods of time will do any good. China's been on the receiving end for the better of "globalization" for the better part of a decade and a half... but companies can just as easily move elsewhere. You can only steal intellectual property, throw up unreasonable trade barriers, have highly slanted business fields, and obviously bash foreigners for so long before your "partners" will get tired of you.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Note how NONE of the companies are suggesting moving back to Japan. Too high of taxes, labor costs, and energy costs.

If the government of Japan was smart, they would offer tax incentives to companies that move production back to Japan.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

The sooner Japanese companies shift production out of China the better. Japanese companies were going to be locked out of the Chinese market anyway when their Chinese "partners" had appropriated enough Japanese technology to make cheaper clones. Without technology transfer, the Chinese will have a harder time coming out with their own products.

"Chinese students can swarm a problem," a dean at a major Chinese university told us. "But when it comes to original thought and invention, we stumble. We are trying hard to make that up. We are trying to make technical education the grounding from which we solve problems."

China's economy is slowing while wages are going up. Its population is rapidly aging. Its gender ratio is becoming increasingly unbalanced. The amount of arable land in China is rapidly decreasing due to desertification. China doesn't look like a country with a very stable future. Japanese companies need to get out of China sooner rather than later.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

basroilOct. 01, 2012 - 09:37AM JST

Note how NONE of the companies are suggesting moving back to Japan. Too high of taxes, labor costs, and energy costs.

If the government of Japan was smart, they would offer tax incentives to companies that move production back to Japan.

Both Obama and Romney are proposing to lower US Corporate tax rate from current level. One of Obama's agenda is offering more aggressive tax incentives for US manufacturing coming back to US. Japan needs to do the same.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Myanmar may be ok, but still risky. They are politically unstable.

I agree, blackrock. Good thinking.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I have just come back from Myamar. I went to visit Yangon, Mandalay, Pagan, Inle and May Myo. When I compared with Thai, Myanmar hotel rates are higher. In the capital city, real estate price is sky rocketing. Electric power supply is unreliable Unlike China, Myanmar constructions projects are inefficient and lacking official support. Infrastructure, skills and financial transactions are very backward in Myanmar. There is only advantage of Myanmar is sandwiched between Huge markets of India and China.

Manufacturing in China is more expensive now. For textile, toy and shoes makers, they have already relocated to Bangaledesh, Fiji and Indonesia. For high end product manufacturing such as wifi router, modem and gateway, no nation can match China at the moment. They have technical know how transfered from Taiwan. For marketing and supply chain development, it is helped by Hong Kong. They still can manufacture mass products with affordable price. How can manufacturer make telecommunication equipments without sufficient experienced engineers and technicians.

Not all manufacturing will move to undeveloped nations as many posters mentioned. Air Bus will not move their Aero -plane manufacturing plant to South America. For Aeroplane manufacturing, safety is more important than low cost and friendly people.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I have an idea, why not just manufacture here in Japan instead. I am sure that there are people that can use the work. Also, if things are made cheaply in foreign countries, they are still sold at sky-high prices here in Japan. Instead of looking for ways to go to another country and exploit the poor there, why not just build the items here and offer a decent wage and working conditions.

I am not talking about some utopian "workers paradise" where the workers control the means of production, but building here and maybe asking the J-gov to get off the backs of manufacturers with excessive taxes and regulatory fees for doing business here, and let the company put people to work.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@ basroil: I didn't see your post earlier, but you are correct. Bring back the jobs, and offer incentives for business to produce here. Also, this may be what the J-gov needs to justify their continued use of nuclear energy or for a need to find more alternatives since the energy costs are so high here in Japan.

What Japan doesn't need to do is to borrow a page from American businesses, bring in foreigners or let illegals in to do the work at lower wages to depress labor wages for native workers. There is plenty of need and areas where products can be made here in Japan.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Considering the Currency rate, I don't think moving to the US is a good move. Plus, they also have got some political issues like Okinawan base with Japan. Japan is probably looking for some place that is close, has cheap labor and without political conflict.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Kaori GeorgesOct. 01, 2012 - 10:18AM JST

Considering the Currency rate, I don't think moving to the US is a good move.

Actually, It is an excellent move when Yen is strong. When Yen is strong, what Japan needs to do is more M&A and invest aggressively in commodity, foreign resources in global market. Yen may appreciate to 56yen/$ within a couple of years. . .

4 ( +4 / -0 )

This guy has a lot of hate and most likely never been to countries he mentioned here. You watch too much TV pal, you don't know the reality.

Obviously the best candidates here are the Philippines ( 3rd fastest growing economy now in Asia, loves Japan, speaks English, friendly and definitely not racist unlike CallmeB ), Myanmar ( low cost) and Indonesia. (2nd fastest growing in Asia)

-16 callmeBOCT. 01, 2012 - 07:50AM JST The Malaysian and Singaporean hate your guts. The Filipinos are a lazy bunch and there's not much they can do there, not including the Muslim terrorism that goes on in the outskirts. The Thai, well you saw the flooding and riots. Vietnam is another communist state that hates you. Myanmar is a military state and the staunchest ally of China. IF China says, no import from Myanmar to China, your companies and investments die immediately in the former Burma.

Honestly speaking, if you want to tap the Chinese market, you have no where to go but India. But Indians like the Koreans a lot more than you people, so you are at a huge disadvantage there. And right now, the Chinese don't want you in their country. Its not about your assessment of risks of doing business in China. Its about China and the Chinese kicking you out. Two completely different circumstances. Get that through your self-obsessive skull of yours. Your Business and investments are unwanted in China. Leave now and American businesses and European businesses will replace you immediately. Like I said, everything you make are completely replaceable. At the end of the day, you lose a 1.4 billion consumer market. Your loss. Our gain.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

china is going down...

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I think Japanese companies should look elsewhere myself. Singapore and Malaysia hate Japan? So what? Money talks. Saw a few managers from there in China supervising their less educated brethren. And Filipinos are lazy?

ReformedBasherOct. 01, 2012 - 08:50AM JST

No, they are all friendly to Japanese. You may need to do some in depth study of these countries. Filipinos culture is known as a culture of hospitality because of Spanish influence many centries ago. That's why many Philipino nurses are now being trained in Japan. Malaysia and Singapore used to be one country. Singapore became independent from Malaysia. These countries are filled with native Malaysian, Malaysian Chinese and Singapore Chinese. Some Malaysians are Muslims. There are many more to be mentioned, but I do not want to bore you.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Elbuda MexicanoOct. 01, 2012 - 09:06AM JST

The only logical answer to help Japan, is MEXICO!!! Mexico already has many, many Japanese factories, etc. Make more Japanese factories in Mexico

Yep, Mexicano. Many Japanese car parts vendors are already in Tijuana, Mexico, so closed to San Diego.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Just to get a few facts right.

Just as the sun rises every morning and sets in the evening, the Japanese domestic market is a flooded shrinking domestic market and China is an expanding developing market. The mess that Japan has gotten itself into by depending way too much on the manufacturing base of it;s economy for way too long for a developed economy, can only be temporarily resolved by finding foreign markets. With the collapse of the Euro, declining demand in the USA, there is no alternative market for Japanese high end goods than the Chinese market, unless everyone in the Phillipines wins the Euro lottery. The Japanese gave up making plastic cups in the 1950's and what it produces now is well out of the price range of 97.5% of other Asians.

Those who promote manufacturing outside of China, are living on another planet. China has import duties of between 18 - 24% on high end imports. This, included with transport costs, would make manufacturing outside of China, totally unprofitable for Japanese companies and Japan would be surrendering the only viable market to the Koreans, Germany and the USA.

The talk of Japanese companies leaving Japan, just like the Japanese talk of mutual international respect, is all bluster. Japanese companies respect one thing, profit.

Economically, Japan needs China way way more than the other way around and the failure of the Japanese political elites to realize this, is leading this country down the economic crapper much quicker than it need to be.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Elbuda MexicanoOct. 01, 2012 - 09:06AM JST

The only logical answer to help Japan, is MEXICO!!! Mexico already has many, many Japanese factories, etc. Make more Japanese factories in Mexico, bring them over CHINA and this will not only help Japan, but also the USA and not to mention Mexico,

Sure, they can pay for their brand new shiny Prius in cocaine and marijuana.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

omicronOct. 01, 2012 - 10:34AM JST

Obviously the best candidates here are the Philippines

15,000,000 Phillippines are classified as being middle class. China has a middle class of more than 150,000,000. Like I said, unless the Phillippines wins the Euro lottery as a collective, the Japanese can manufacture all the high end goods it wants to in the Phillippines, but they're not going to be able to sell them.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Why look elsewhere when your own country is in desperate need of help? Japan has not recover from its recession since twenty over years ago and unemployment is at an all time high. Suicide rate is among the highest in the world if not the highest, mostly due to financial reasons. The government is at wits end to raise money with its humongous debt. Instead of putting more financial burden on its people through taxation, these Japanese investors should invest in their own country to save themselves first. Otherwise, the Japanese civilization is going to end up like the Roman and Greek empire, total annihilation. And the danger is very real considering the stupidity of its leader, "looking for alternative country to invest" when it itself is in need of investment.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

GM,Audi,Volkswagen,BMW,Hyundai, LG etc. China will be fine without Japan.Japan on the otherhand is going to feel the pain. The economy doesnt have time for the move, or this big change.......

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Here....

http://news.yahoo.com/gm-opens-china-test-track-effort-remain-market-145256905--finance.html

0 ( +0 / -0 )

the timing of the spat with China might just play in Japan's favor

I feel sorry for China. In 2005, it was the sixth largest economy in the world. It's the second now and it has growing pains like corruption, steep price increases, water pollution, tens of thousand mass incidences, or demonstraitons and riots a year. There is no relief in sight anywhere.

So, when China, the land of 1.3 billion people, suffers a sharp economic decrease, it will be severe. There will be high unemployment, social and political unrest, and an exodus of Chinese workers to other countries. Get the heck out while you can. No European Bank, US Federal Reserve, and Japan Central Bank can save it.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@johnnybravo: If they don't have jobs, how the heck can they buy cars? Don't kid yourself.

And if you are an American, you should feel ashamed that GM is outsourcing manufacturing to China, after receiving tax money to keep them afloat.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Japan, Here is another suggestion! Why not disguise your brand names and change it like "chingChong motors"etc . This was proven effective by the Chinese. A decade ago, there were "Hongda", "nire" etc. The chinese love fake products, so why not deceive them and have them a taste of their own medicine.

http://www.oddee.com/item_86044.aspx

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Japanese looks for alternatives - Yes!! Of course this is because red china has shown she is Japan's enemy, and Chinese shill here are also making that abundantly clear - Yes.

Hey red china, bring back the rioters. What happened to them?! We were enjoying watching Chinese making their already dirty and polluted country more dirty. Come back, raise the red banners and the portrait of your beloved Mao, and call for the deaths of Japanese people again - we were enjoying the fine display of contemporary Chinese culture. encore!!

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Just like elbuda and eric schneider said, Mexico would be a good option, there are already tons of japanese companies there, Sony, Nissan, Honda, Toyota, YKK, Sumitomo, Takata among many others. The problem is sadly inscurity. The US we all know is an excellent choice, but costs are a lot higher, that's why Japan put its eyes on Asian countries first.

The good thing out of all this, is that, (as it is already happening) other countries are offering excellent incentives, so in the future, when China's economy comes into stagnation, this would mean less dependence on China for Japan, and even for other countries if they follow its steps.

Other economies will start to grow and Japanese companies will enjoy reduced costs.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Blackrock, the jobs will just move to other non Japanese companies,and there are alot of them. Those companies will expand. Not to mention bring in other companies too.....

0 ( +1 / -1 )

go for it japanese companies before china start to invade the senkaku islands. once it happens every japanese properties in china will be seized.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

there are lot of threaten words to the economy of japan from china , no one knows who lose more or less , but the fact is coming soon . japan is limited words in the conflict , but japan strongly does like as strong japan ever b4 . is this a lesson , economy war , or time to teach by work cannon ? not only do i agree with hero japan , but all of my vietnamese people love and admire your strong attitude japan

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Dog,

I read the business news everyday, so trust me, I know what I'm saying. Your 15M middle class is so 1960s. I advise you to read business news everyday. There are 10 million Filipinos abroad sending 20.1 Billion dollars a year (yes, look closer, the figure is right, goggle it if you want) And there are 86 million cell phone subscribers in the Philippines (they can'tbuy a phone(s) if they can't buy food right?) Billion dollars worth of agricultural product exports and minerals especially copper. 13 billion dolalrs in the BPO industry (number 1 in the world,India is 2nd) . I can go on but I think you get the picture. Visit the Philippines, and you'll know. omicronOct. 01, 2012 - 10:34AM JST

Obviously the best candidates here are the Philippines

15,000,000 Phillippines are classified as being middle class. China has a middle class of more than 150,000,000. Like I said, unless the Phillippines wins the Euro lottery as a collective, the Japanese can manufacture all the high end goods it wants to in the Phillippines, but they're not going to be able to sell them.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Dog, I read the business news everyday, so trust me, I know what I'm saying. Your 15M middle class is so 1960s. I advise you to read business news everyday

.You obviously don't because any basic research on your part would show that 10 - 15% of the Pine's 103 million population is classified as middle class and since 2008 that middle class is actually shrinking.

There are 10 million Filipinos abroad sending 20.1 Billion dollars a year (yes, look closer, the figure is right, goggle it if you want)

Yeah, sure, those 10 million maids, nurses and bar hostesses - nearly all the expat labor force from the Phillippines is female - can sure do with driving a Toyota Prius.

Again Japan manufactures high end products. Phillippines has neither the infrastructure or power grid to make these remotely attractive to a large section of the Pine population, even if they were affordable to them.

There is no alternative for Japanese companies but China, while China has many alternatives.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Well, South Korean firms are rushing to China even before the Japanese firms are out of it.

Samsung, LG, Hyundai ..etc will continue to take market shares from Japanese firms in China and around the world.

http://view.koreaherald.com/kh/view.php?ud=20121001000069&cpv=0

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

iWorld

yes, no wonder. japan is no longer to compete against samsung anylonger. besides south korea will be united with north korea and then back to chinese daughter sooner or later.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Dog,

Yeah, sure, those 10 million maids, nurses and bar hostesses - nearly all the expat labor force from the Phillippines is female - can sure do with driving a Toyota Prius.

This is wrong (and sexist). The correct statistics is, according to the (Philippine) National Statistics Office, in 2010: 47.7% were female and 52.3% male expats OFWs (Overseas Filipino Workers). In fact, more are male.

You may forget that the Philippines being the world"s main supplier of seamen/seafarers (since 1987) also.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Dog

Where Did you get the data? 3rd Fastest Economy in Asia and shrinking middle class? As the country grows, GDP decreases? Haha.How's that possible? Look it up on Wikipedia,only 20-30% in the Philipines are considered poor by UN. That means 70-80 belong to middle class and the rich.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Most of those factories will never re-open in another country anyhow. Many Japanese corporations have been suffering deficits for years now and are straddled with loads of debt. They will likely just pack their bags and go home. Don't expect a huge influx of Japanese investment anywhere. It will all end in China.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Being fortunate to know a personal secretary for a very large zaibatsu in Japan, I know that Japanese companies are definitely looking to offload their future investment opportunities given the instability of China. I think you'll find very few large companies announcing further investment in China - but also not actively removing any current investments either.

In regards to this current fracas however, the Japanese have been, while not totally blameless (Ishihara-extremism), the Chinese seem to be stepping up again and again. It reminds me of Palestine and Israel. I always found it funny that Israel was the victim in the 6 day war and yet those agressor countries complain about Israel maintaining 'their land'. To the victor go the spoils of war, particularly those that happened over a century ago.

With all due respect, ancient land boundaries count for nothing. Or maybe we should start talking to Mongolia about giving them back Russia and chunks of Europe for that matter. Or giving Italy back Great Britain because they conquered it in "ancient times". Land boundaries change over many years and nobody ever lived on those islands anyway. They only want them for the potential EEZ and natural resources.

I feel bad for the Japanese that after years of economic hardship, they may be losing key growth with their best (and the world's largest) potential trading partner. But then again I wonder what will happen to China without the 3rd largest economy investing in it... A mere dint in their growth possibly, or the start of a global slowdown? It remains to be seen.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Tokyomusing, surely you mean keiretsu?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

People are missing a point here although trade balance between Japan and Mainland China seems fairly even, many of the import from Mainland China to Japan are from Japanese subsidaries while mostly all export from Japan to Mainland China are from Japanese corporations. Even procesed food items, after the Gyoza scare, Japanese subsidaries were set up for better quality control instead of out sourcing them to PRC soley owned companies.

If many Japanese companies suddenly moves out from PRC the trade balance tips with it.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

This article is about "outsourcing" production from manufacturing to growing or cultivating products.

The question is "why" must Japanese firms "outsource"?

Why can't the Japanese firms "improve", "improvise", "create" and otherwise keep the quality up and prices down to be "competitive" right here in Japan?

It appears a lot has to do with the "initial" investment and the slow ROI due to high labor and maintenance costs related to health and safety laws and regulations, besides the high tax rate. The emphasis is on "quick" profits for corporations to please its stockholders that has become accustomed to quick and high returns. One such problem leads to mis-management as with Olympus, Sharp and a few others in the news.

Are there other really good reason why Japanese firms must go elsewhere, other than for foreign aid?

Is that what Japan needs now; such foreign aid as building facilities and giving away technologies and training populations in other countries that could very easily nationalize and take away everything?

That is exactly what we face in China today.... is it not?

It is only 70 years since WWII. Only the YEN investment has kept other nations friendly toward Japan.... is it not?

Once they have the ability (the facilities and the trained people to run those facilities) they no longer need Japanese presence.... do they?

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@hkitagawaOct. 01, 2012 - 09:21AM JST

Hi, what about send all this job to Brazil? There is 200 million of people there and near 2.000.000 million of Japanese decendants.'

You should go to Brazil anyway. 200 million is a great number.

Compared to that, what is well over 1 billion.

Forget it. Let others take the market. The Chinese should know Japan has done everything so far solely for China's sake.

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@shoraiOct. 01, 2012 - 07:21PM JST

Philippines is the next best bet? I am completely on your side.

The only thing I don't get is why most Japanese companies haven't thought so, at least up to now. Aren't they supposed to know what they are doing?

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@tokyomusingOct. 01, 2012 - 08:03PM JST

Being fortunate to know a personal secretary for a very large zaibatsu in Japan, I know that Japanese companies are definitely looking to offload their future investment opportunities given the instability of China. I think you'll find very few large companies announcing further investment in China - but also not actively removing any current investments either.

In regards to this current fracas however, the Japanese have been, while not totally blameless (Ishihara-extremism), the Chinese seem to be stepping up again and again. It reminds me of Palestine and Israel. I always found it funny that Israel was the victim in the 6 day war and yet those agressor countries complain about Israel maintaining 'their land'. To the victor go the spoils of war, particularly those that happened over a century ago.

With all due respect, ancient land boundaries count for nothing. Or maybe we should start talking to Mongolia about giving them back Russia and chunks of Europe for that matter. Or giving Italy back Great Britain because they conquered it in "ancient times". Land boundaries change over many years and nobody ever lived on those islands anyway. They only want them for the potential EEZ and natural resources.

I feel bad for the Japanese that after years of economic hardship, they may be losing key growth with their best (and the world's largest) potential trading partner. But then again I wonder what will happen to China without the 3rd largest economy investing in it... A mere dint in their growth possibly, or the start of a global slowdown? It remains to be seen."

With all due respect, you need to do a bit more homework before you speak.

Japan claims they discovered the islands in 1884. Is it not relevant who these islands belonged to then? China has shown their body of evidence. If you want to get a clean shot, all you need to do is to discredit their evidence. Of course, there is still this Cairo/Podsdam Declarations to deal with. But let's keep it simple for the moment. Japan says terra nullius, China counters with documents. Japan's turn now.

As for bilateral trade, both think too highly of themselves on how much the other side needs them. There is no denial though, that during the last decade Japan has made more inroads into Chinese market than the other way around. Strength can be weakness, too. China knows it will go through hardship, it is a matter of how much. I am sure it is all in Noda's calculation, for he is still singing the same old tune.:-)

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@Globalwatcher

Sorry but it seems you've misunderstood me. The question mark at the end was supposed to be a sarcastic response to callmeB's mouthing off at the top. I don't look down on any of the above-mentioned countries, unless they act belligerently against their neighbours :-)

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@Elbuda Mexicano

Agree Mexico is a good country to do business with but unfortunately there is concern with the drug-related violence. I daresay that there are large areas of the country which are safe though.

Actually I think Central America and South America are overlooked too much when it comes to international business.

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Japan claims they discovered the islands in 1884. Is it not relevant who these islands belonged to then? China has shown their body of evidence. If you want to get a clean shot, all you need to do is to discredit their evidence. Of course, there is still this Cairo/Podsdam Declarations to deal with. But let's keep it simple for the moment. Japan says terra nullius, China counters with documents. Japan's turn now.

China counters with what documents? Have they shown any records of soverignty over the islands before Japan's incorporation? That's a big fat NO. As the island of Palmas case indicates, a mere discovery (naming it on the map) does not constitute title. " title by discovery is only an inchoate title"

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

China's FDI has been decreasing for three straight months and this was despite Japan's increase in FDI during that span. With the recent events, expect the FDI figures to fall even further for China has openly displayed to the world what "China Risk" is all about.

The increasing "market" that China claims is nothing more than an illusion for their internal consumption as a % of GDP is a woeful 36% and declining. In other words, their rise in GDP is mostly attributed to capital spending (government and construction) where there exists a numerous ghost towns with newly constructed condominiums with high vacancy.

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@Globalwatcher

Just so there is no chance of misunderstanding -

I don't think Filipinos are lazy. I've worked with them. Some of my friends are from there, including my best friend's wife (he's Japanese).

I know about Singapore and Malaysia and the different people who live there. When I was in China, some of our client's subsidaries employed Singapore Chinese and Malaysian Chinese as the management to supervise the mainland Chinese workers and lower level management. They had far better idea how international business worked as well as quality control - 2 things that were vital to the success of the company - whereas it was all new ground for the mainland Chinese who festered under backwards communist rule for so long.

So, I think we are probably on the same page. Mind you, I'm not anti-Mainland Chinese either (not really anyway). I just get annoyed when people jump up and down demanding blood when they should chill.

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@thywillbedoneOct. 01, 2012 - 12:38PM JST

Japanese looks for alternatives - Yes!! Of course this is because red china has shown she is Japan's enemy, and Chinese shill here are also making that abundantly clear - Yes.

Hey red china, bring back the rioters. What happened to them?! We were enjoying watching Chinese making their already dirty and polluted country more dirty. Come back, raise the red banners and the portrait of your beloved Mao, and call for the deaths of Japanese people again - we were enjoying the fine display of contemporary Chinese culture. encore!!"

You obviously know what you are talking about, since you are completely out of the loops in terms of what has happened to the rioters. Congrats.

And in this tread of talking business, let's talk about Mao. Let's not visit Japan's past. No names. No deeds. Only Yasukuni shrine and Hiroshima memorials. Let's certainly not ask why Noda has repeatedly show his highhandedness. We all know deep down Chinese are the same as what we branded them long ago. Let's certainly not show that they have found more than what we can disprove. Let's categorically deny their validity, including the old documents from Japanese archives.

You are so absolutely knowledgeable about everything. You should ask Noda to teach Master Obama how to throw this punch as deftly.

As for bilateral trade, let businessmen decide. Many will leave China. Yet you see not all seem to know what they are doing. Uniqlo has just opened another store. So was Aeon. And you might feel disgusted what Toyota has offered to the owners of the damaged cars. I will spare you the details in case you lose more time reminiscing about your Dear Mao.

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@nigelboyOct. 01, 2012 - 11:47PM JST China counters with what documents? Have they shown any records of soverignty over the islands before Japan's incorporation? That's a big fat NO. As the island of Palmas case indicates, a mere discovery (naming it on the map) does not constitute title. " title by discovery is only an inchoate title"

Not just discovery. China has published a white paper on this. I thought you got this already from your open and thorough and fair media. I don't think you will need my help for the search if you care to find out. If you don't, more will find out anyway.

And Japan said a Japanese discovered the islands in 1884, therefore it should not fall into the category of Japanese-occupied Chinese territories to be returned to China under the term of Japanese surrender. Is it not important to sort it out why lied?

@nigelboyOct. 01, 2012 - 11:58PM JST China's FDI has been decreasing for three straight months and this was despite Japan's increase in FDI during that span. With the recent events, expect the FDI figures to fall even further for China has openly displayed to the world what "China Risk" is all about.

The increasing "market" that China claims is nothing more than an illusion for their internal consumption as a % of GDP is a woeful 36% and declining. In other words, their rise in GDP is mostly attributed to capital spending (government and construction) where there exists a numerous ghost towns with newly constructed condominiums with high vacancy."

I am not bringing up Nikkei or Kantan. No matter what you say.:-)

Likewise, fortunately, or unfortunately, you and I don't get to decide where others do business.

Chinese market as illusion? You are entitled to your opinion.

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Not just discovery. China has published a white paper on this. I thought you got this already from your open and thorough and fair media. I don't think you will need my help for the search if you care to find out. If you don't, more will find out anyway.

Why not do it now? Where are documents that specifically prove that China exercized soverignty over the islands before Japan's incorporation? As you stated, "Not just discovery" right?

And Japan said a Japanese discovered the islands in 1884, therefore it should not fall into the category of Japanese-occupied Chinese territories to be returned to China under the term of Japanese surrender. Is it not important to sort it out why lied?

Where does it state that Japan "discovered" the islands in 1884? What Japan is claiming is that the official investigation of the islands started in 1885 at the request of a businessman named Koga who wanted to exclusively operate on the islands. Need I remind you again that "title by discovery is only an inchoate title"?

Chinese market as illusion? You are entitled to your opinion.

Opinion based on low domestic consumption as a % of GDP. That's how arrived at my opinion. Duh!!

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from "callmeB"

Your Business and investments are unwanted in China. Leave now and American businesses and European businesses will replace you immediately.

Europe is in shape to invest? Have you been reading the news? Does "Eurozone crisis" ring any bells? Also, did you read that Japanese foreign investment in China is double that of the US over the past year? That Japanese investment in China increased last year and is only behind Taiwan and Hong Kong? Also, like the way how you totally dissed the entire Phillipine nation to make your point - hope you don't call customer service for any products you buy and say that - see what kind of response you get! You also appear to be from the US, and are apparently unaware how much people don't seem to care much for the US these days either. Maybe some saying about "people living in glass houses" would fit your position quite well...

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Burma is best option for investing in Asia. Burma is back door to India and China and easy to export Japanese products to Middle East and Africa by sea.

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This argument is quite relevant to the risk of disasters like in case of a big earth quake. After the big quake last year, Japanese companies started thinking of alternatives in terms of components, raw materials and etc. If you expect to see China risk again, it's very natural to seek for back up solutions in terms of production sites.

Regarding countries as alternatives, companies should have much more discussion. in addition to a moral level of a country, they should investigate carefully basic infrastructures when it comes to producing the goods. It should include not only material wise but also skill sets toward good quality, motivations, learning curve and so on....

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$60bln trade surplus a year from China is being blown away by some silly extreme right Japanese nationalistic politicians' antics. Japan certainly cannot afford economically and socially. There is little alternative to the 2nd largest economy in the world with a 1.3bln neighbouring consumers. US factories are still too expensive relative to China and can only serve the American markets. The rest of Asia is too small in scale as compared to China. A lose-lose situation for Japan. Japan is not wise to stir this hornet nest. US will be selling more expensive military weapons to Japan. Trade deficits of Japan will become a trend and widen further, even eroding the current account surpluses. Japan's doom economy will be "doomer" because of a few rocks from Senkaku....thanks to Ishihara and....

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mr_jgbOct. 02, 2012 - 08:34AM JST $60bln trade surplus a year from China is being blown away by some silly extreme right Japanese nationalistic politicians' antics. Japan certainly cannot afford economically and socially.

Actually, if Japan goverment maintains the firm and consistant stance against China, the long term relations might result in more manageable diplomacy and mutual respect between two goverments. Japan has every rights to administer the island based on 1970 Okinawa agreeement. China also has alot to lose if assertive diplomacy with Japan does not go well. The top goverment officials in Japan is getting alot of consultation from the U.S. goverment and their lawyers that understand international law, and they are following the process.

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why do not you go ahead in time and build productive automated production without workers?

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