business

The EU: In or out - what Japanese firms think about Brexit

47 Comments
By Julian Ryall and Alan Osborn for BCCJ ACUMEN

Almost certainly the vast majority of UK-based Japanese-owned businesses want Britain to stay in the European Union (EU) after the in–out EU membership referendum planned for June 23.

However, few of them have stated this publicly and no Japanese firm has yet said it would move elsewhere were there a vote to leave the union.

Nick Woodford, partner responsible for PwC’s Japanese business network in the UK, told BCCJ ACUMEN that many Japanese firms are looking to expand their operations globally because of the frailty of the Japanese economy and Japan’s aging population.

In Europe, these firms have been focusing especially on investment in the UK and Germany. For some, a “Brexit” (Britain exiting the EU) could cause problems.

Woodford said this would be “quite a challenge for companies like Nissan”, given its major plant in Sunderland, northeast England, from where the vast majority of the cars produced are exported to the EU. A Brexit may result in additional trade red tape or even the introduction of import duties.

According to Carlos Ghosn KBE, chairman and chief executive of Nissan, “Our preference as a business is, of course, that the UK stays within Europe—it makes the most sense for jobs, trade and costs. For us, a position of stability is more positive than a collection of unknowns”.

And while Nissan said it would not take part in the referendum campaign, the firm has declined to “speculate” on its response to a vote to leave the EU, such as the relocation of its manufacturing facilities to mainland Europe to take advantage of the benefits of EU membership.

“We obviously want the Nissan UK plant and engineering centre to remain as competitive as possible when compared with other global entities, and each future investment opportunity will be taken on a case-by-case basis, just as it is now”, Ghosn said.

A move from Britain would be serious. Nissan employs 8,000 people in the UK across its manufacturing, engineering and design facilities, as well as a further 32,000 indirectly through dealerships and its supply chain.

That said, moving such a major plant would be difficult. And Woodford said that it and other major Japanese investments in Britain were often in heavy industry, all costing money to close or move.

These also include Hitachi Rail’s railway equipment manufacturing subsidiaries and its nuclear energy project through Horizon Nuclear Power, a UK energy firm, as well as NuGen, a nuclear energy joint venture between Toshiba Corporation and France’s ENGIE.

“These are significant investments in terms of money, but also in infrastructure and in nuclear plant and physical presence”, said Woodford implying that these could not be easily or quickly moved.

Such quandaries have been highlighted by automotive manufacturer Toyota Motor Corporation, which would “keep making cars at its plant in the English Midlands [in Derby] even if the UK votes to leave the European Union”, Akio Toyoda, the firm’s chief executive, told the Financial Times in January.

Another Japanese giant—Otsuka Pharmaceutical Co., Ltd.—has echoed these comments. It wants the UK to stay within the EU, but says it will not leave a Brexited Britain.

Astex Pharmaceuticals, an Otsuka subsidiary, joined 50 UK-based biotech and pharmaceutical executives in sending an open letter to the Financial Times in February detailing their reasons for supporting remaining in the EU. These include the benefits of a pan-EU regulatory system, the UK’s receipt of more EU research funding per capita than any other EU member country, and the risks to Britain’s attractiveness for investment following a withdrawal.

“Otsuka favours the UK remaining part of the EU due to the common regulatory framework and access to a large, single market as well as to a mobile talent pool”, Otsuka spokesperson Jeff Gilbert told BCCJ ACUMEN.

Gilbert is concerned about the “potential disruption” to EU pharmaceutical market approvals that may be caused by a relocation from London of the European Medicines Agency (EMA). Following a Brexit, the EMA would have to leave, “because EU institutions are required to be domiciled in member countries”.

Moreover, in 2017, a unified EU patent registration system and unified patent code will be implemented. The related tribunal to adjudicate Intellectual Property disputes in the area of life sciences is scheduled to be established in London. Again, that would be located elsewhere if Britain leaves the EU.

Otsuka’s UK pharmaceutical operations employ nearly 400 people in commercial and research activities, primarily in west London and Cambridge. But the firm would stay in Britain, even after a vote to leave the EU.

“First, our employees are highly satisfied working in the UK, and a move to mainland Europe would be highly disruptive for many of them”, Gilbert said. “Nonetheless, over the long run, the issue for any life sciences-related business is ensuring that it has unhindered access to resources, especially highly talented staff in areas such as the sciences, but also capital—especially for biotech companies—in what is a capital-intensive field.

“Second, the UK has a critical mass of pharmaceutical and biotechnology companies, leading universities in the sciences, and other centres of academic medicine, making the country a hospitable environment for drug discovery and drug development”, he added.

Such practical constraints on quitting a non-EU Britain would not necessarily apply to the same extent to Japanese conglomerates that, while owning UK businesses including manufacturing, operate management and ownership hubs in London. These offices and registrations could—in theory—be moved to the Continent, were there a Brexit.

Alternatively, these firms could keep their European headquarters in place and start shifting investments out of Britain into remaining EU member states. The most important players here are Mitsui & Co., Ltd., Mitsubishi Electric Corporation, Sumitomo Mitsui Banking Corporation, Itochu Corporation and Marubeni Corporation.

“At one level, it would be possible for them to continue with European headquarters in London because they’re looking at investment decisions for the region”, Woodford said.

“It’s a different matter as to whether they’d continue to invest in the UK, but they could continue to run their headquarters’ activities from the UK—many of the Japanese megabanks have got significant presences in London so they are very embedded in UK activities”, he added.

Moreover, regarding domestic firms looking to global markets for expansion, and newer hi-tech Internet-based firms, “a Brexit might have an impact as they are more mobile”, according to Woodford.

Unsurprisingly, some businesses prefer to keep their counsel. Suntory Holdings Limited has its European headquarters in west London and, while stressing that “this is an important debate for the UK, and it is crucial that the discussion is as informed as possible”, it said that, “as the third-largest branded soft drinks supplier in the UK, the European Single Market plays a significant role in how we operate”.

Regardless of the decision, Suntory said it “remains committed to our staff, suppliers and customers across the UK and looks forward to continuing to grow our contribution to UK plc through innovation, job-creation and skills”.

Of course, in the short term, one sure consequence of the referendum is uncertainty, and no one likes that.

“Generally [the approach of Japanese firms] is one of concern about the uncertainty, leading to the postponing of decisions that can be postponed, but I’ve seen no evidence of them saying they would leave”, said Chris Bryant, antitrust and competition partner at the international law firm of Berwin Leighton Paisner. Bryant said that it was difficult to generalise regarding whether Japanese firms really would have an option to leave Britain after a Brexit. “It wouldn’t be easy but it wouldn’t be impossible”, he said.

Custom Media publishes BCCJ ACUMEN for the British Chamber of Commerce in Japan.

© Japan Today

©2020 GPlusMedia Inc.


47 Comments
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Remaining in the EU is a no brainer for ordinary Brits. The entire Brexit campaign has been built on half truths, outright lies and pure fantasy.

People who support Brexit love to repeat that Britain buys more EU goods than it exports to the EU, suggesting that the EU should be willing to strike a trade deal in order to keep selling their goods to Britain. What they always fail to mention is that those British exports to the EU represent over 50% of all UK exports, while the amount that the EU sells to Britain represents only 10% of total EU exports. Britain has absolutely no leverage in terms of trade.

11 ( +11 / -1 )

Maybe politicians have forgotten that countries can make trade treaties with other countries, even those that include no tariffs and no red tape?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

M3M3M3:

The UK's EU referendum is not just about an economic issue. The reason for most people wanting to leave is because of the democratic or immigration issues. However, the UK does have the advantage when it comes to trade with the EU. If the UK left the EU, it would make Germany the sole net contributor into the EU. The UK is Germany's largest consumer in Europe and Germany couldn't afford to lose that business. Trade would continue as before or with minor changes.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

The Brexit debate is useless. Whether they vote in or out the loser will call for another referendum. The real issue isn't the EU, it's capitalism. Basically every aspect of British people's lives are controlled by private companies, not the EU. A quarter of schools are not control by private companies with MPs and the general public having no way of affecting change. Transport outside London is a mess. Bus companies demand money from local government to run services (the services used to be run by local government until central government forced the change). There are many other examples of this. Going back to the referendum and Japan, I supect a fair few will start to move their offices to the mainland. As for the idea of trade negotiations. They can take years to complete! Also how many trade deals can you do per year?!

2 ( +4 / -2 )

As a net contributor to the EU, which is manned by unelected pen pushers, it is more than possible that the British would actually save money by leaving.

There are so many factors that allow the UK to rid itself of the leeching EU. The UK is growing, the main language is English, infrastructure is well developed with massive investment in the South East going forward.International access is of a high level.London is a major international centre for investment. This referendum will also show that the people of the UK that they can determine their own future and that their opinions count......

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

The UK is Germany's largest consumer in Europe and Germany couldn't afford to lose that business.

Not really. The UK only accounts for 6.9% of German exports and France accounts for 7.8%.

Bottom line is the UK only accounts for about 11% of total exports from the rest of the EU, and on a country-by-country basis it can be as low as 2% for some member states. The UK exports 45% of all exports to the EU, it is the UK's single largest export market and any future negotiation will be heavily in the EU's favour, if the UK leaves.

Also, many Brexit supporters are very shouty, xenophobic people who have some very misplaced ideas about immigration. None of this is helped by the fact that the populist tabloid press stokes all of this to sell more.

It is quite surprising then, that many British were up in arms about what Obama had to say about Brexit over the weekend, saying that foreign nationals should not be involved at all. Yet they are quite happy to read the opinion of an Australian media mogul who owns most of the UK press and lives in the USA. Also, which is quite shocking, the Brexit campaign leaders have invited Marie le Pen (from the FN in France) to come and 'help' out with the campaign. All very hypocritical.

And these are just some of the reasons that I will be voting to Remain in June!

9 ( +11 / -2 )

Adam Shrimpton:https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigures/NationalEconomyEnvironment/ForeignTrade/TradingPartners/Tables

You forget to include the amount Germany buys from France. France on a trade balance term is not as valuable to Germany as the UK.

I haven't decided myself, but I don't think I'll choose by how I see the people presenting the arguments. I'll choose based on the arguments themselves.

I think Murdoch is actually an Australian born American. Lots of British people who want to leave don't like him interfering either.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Also, many Brexit supporters are very shouty, xenophobic people who have some very misplaced ideas about immigration.

Didn't take long for the 'Little Englander' jibe to surface, did it?

The Bremainers sound far more hysterical than the Brexiters, who at least have a vision of how they would like to improve the U.K. (whether or not Bremainers agree with this vision). People don't get to vote on capitalism, so they vote on E.U. membership instead.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

@Tangerine2000

The UK is Germany's largest consumer in Europe and Germany couldn't afford to lose that business. Trade would continue as before or with minor changes.

Germany wouldn't lose that business because even after Brexit, WTO rules would prevent the UK from banning or heavily taxing the import of German cars (and vice versa with many UK exports to the EU). The unique problem that the UK faces is that many of its leading industries such as pharmaceuticals, aviation and financial services are in areas where the are fewer international agreements that prevent countries from taking protectionist measures. For example, the EU could delay approval of perscription drugs manufactured in the UK in a way that the UK would not be able to delay or ban the sale of German cars.

The reason for most people wanting to leave is because of the democratic or immigration issues

Do you think the UK is more democratic than the EU? The UK, where the House of Lords is entirely unelected, where there is no written constitution enshrining basic civil liberties or restricting the legislative power of the state, where there is no proportional representation in elections leading to parties like UKIP gaining 13% of the vote but only ending up with a single seat out of 650?

The democratic deficit in Europe exists largely because most people don't care about European politics to the same extent that they do about national politics. This is why so many oddballs get elected into the European Parliament in low turnout elections. It's a problem which elected national governments foresaw when the European Parliament was established and why they gave the power to put forward legislation only to the Commission. There is no reason why this can't change in the future. The only reason it hasn't changed is because our elected national governments have decided not to change it.

As far as immigration, there's alot that can be said about this, but suffice it to say that many European politicians have said that the rights of EU citizens to work in Britain would be non-negotiable in any future trade deal. It's a condition that both Norway and Switzerland have to accept as the price for access to the largest single market in the world. In any case, the harsh reality today is that unless you are ready for more cuts to public services, the UK is not in the financial position to be able to afford the shrinking economy that would result from cutting off the supply of cheap EU labour which boosts UK company profits.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Japan makes it completely difficult for foreign firms to set up business here, so I hardly think the UK should care what they think.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Either way Japan needn't worry. If the UK stays there will be no change, so no need to do anything. If the UK leaves, the EU will disintegrate quite quickly.

M3M3M3:

I agree with you. I don't think the UK is more democratic than the EU.

However, the UK government is much more accountable. Recently after this year's budget, Mr Osborne announced reductions to disability benefits and within 48 hours, due to the public backlash and pressure they decided to scrap their plans.

The EU has no accountability whatsoever and blatantly ignores the democratic system, which is much worse.

Ireland 2008 Treaty of Lisbon - Public voted against but result ignored Greece 2015 Bailout Referendum - Public voted against but result ignored Netherlands 2016 Ukraine EU association- Public voted against but result ignored

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

*

A.N. OtherApr. 25, 2016 - 09:34AM JST

Also, many Brexit supporters are very shouty, xenophobic people who have some very misplaced ideas about immigration.*

**

I actually organise an Anglo-Japanese Society and a Brexit supporter! But then I am 72 with a little more knowledge of history and the 'lived through' experience as our 'Europe' venture developed.

After the EU's post-war formation of a few countries the UK considered joining. Then President DeGaulle of France said 'Non'. He believed the UK would be used as an 'umberella' under which the USA would creep and seek to 'control' and dominate Europe. Not far wrong there was he? (NB Obama's recent threat that the UK would be 'back of the queue' for any USA trade agreement if we left. Actually in 40 years the USA has not had a trade agreement with Europe anyway and their present 'all enveloping' TPP agreement we are better off without...and even Abe has seen the light and suggested 'holding it up'. ). Commissioned advice to the then Harold MacMillan government advised entering the 'Common Market' as it expressed concern about our future trading position and did not think China had any future viability as one example (you can see the quality of logical thought around at the time!!!).

We did not have a referendum to 'go in' which was negotiated by our eventual Prime Minister Edward Heath. We were told not to worry as it was only a trading bloc and would not involve our sovreignty loss or any political union and we could always veto anything we did not like. So....flash forward to the present you can see the deception involved or crass stupidity and dumb thinking...whichever way you care to put it. And for a President of the USA to have the audacity (and one born in Hawaii...forget the Kenyan heritage......itself not ceded as a United State to the concern of many of its inhabitants hence some protesters that Obama was not eligible to be President) to accept an invitation to meet our Royal Family whilst standing next to our wofeful Prime Minister 'Call me Dave' and as good as threaten us unless we stay in a political union as it suits the USA sucks. It was about a large an example of bad manners as you can get. Several years ago American politicians entered a debate explaining they had always been mystified about our idea of a 'special relationship'; 'there was not one nor ever had been'. Quite right too. I actually heard Edward Heath in an interview, with furrowed brow, say just that when an interviwer mentioned it. "There is no special relationship" he stated. So...Obama did not come here to 'help out a friend'....he came here to help the USA...just as they did with their new found status with 'shoot from the hips' diplomacy (Afghanistan, Iraq, Lybia, Syria, Arab Spring etc).

The UK is IN Europe.....but it wants to get out of the administrative and political mess that the EU has become. No trade agreement with any country need change a jot. What we will not have to abide by is being a cash cow for wasted trillions, soft money for an unelected conglomerate of 'little people' who none of us would otherwise have heard us....and that the EU's books of accounts have not been signed off by its Auditors for 20 years at least should be enough of a warning. All business' / corporates have to have their books audited...let the tax man find the auditors would not sign off their books for one year and see how long they last before they are voluntary closed down and equate the EU to that...then you will get some idea of the mess. The UK protests of course....but the majority of those running the EU wave the books through regardless to allow it to remain 'trading'. After all...if they run out of money they can 'print it' or call on 'richer' Euro countries (guess who) to shell out to such as Greece.

So that's want we want to get out of before its too late and we come crashing down with it.

I don't mind shouting about that...and also how much I love peoples of the world. As for immigration. It has nothing to do with being xenophobic....anyone who dismisses concerns with such comments is a crass idiot. Surely you can see that people from a foreign country (or anywhere in the UK...if large numbers of people living in Lancashire suddenly moved to Yorkshire!) brings accommodation, educational and subsistence problems. Mass immigration has brought religious problems also. We don't need it and why should any country have to open its doors to people not always with our countries well being at heart and least of all any understanding of its history. The notion of 'multi-culturalism' was a policy now rightly derided but we are stuck with it. That is not to lack appreciation of other cultures....the UK has always welcomed those wishing to settle in the UK and bring a 'freshness' to its shores (Japan needs to learn from us with its decreasing 'Japanese' population) but not to have so many in such a short time and causing our sevices to be streatched beyond reasonable toleration.

I could say (and probably with some justificaion) those wishing to continue to remain in the EU do not have the UK's future at heart.....lining their own pockets is their priority and of their own kind. Its nice to have some foreign bank hide away the stash of dough they hope the tax man does not get what he is entitled to. And they seem to have been doing quite a lot of shouting just recently. After Brexit...they might not find 'not paying their dues' so easy as it used to be.

Yes...we 'Brexits' do have a vision....not one that looks through 'rose coloured glasses' but one of purpose, intention and, most of all, for Great Britiain to govern itself for the benfit of its inhabitants and as an example to the rest of the world based on the talents of its people and not to have that continually dragged down by the 'over stuffed pockets' of dead weight non-entities patting each other's backs in the cock-tail houses of Europe.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Good luck GB! The Dutchies just finished their referendum a few weeks ago and it did f*** all. The government is completely ignoring a valid 30%+ voter turnout that voted against the Ukraine association agreement. Not only that, it was a shout to become once again a free democratic country that doesn't want to be pressured by the EU. A kind of Nexit referendum. You can read about it here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-3525852/Polls-open-Dutch-referendum-EU-Ukraine-trade-deal.html

0 ( +3 / -3 )

This reminds me of the "Frozen" song, with a different wording:

"Let'em go, let'em go If they wanna leave let'em go!"

Europe can do without GB, but can GB do without Europe?

5 ( +7 / -2 )

@M3M3M3

People who support Brexit love to repeat that Britain buys more EU goods than it exports to the EU, suggesting that the EU should be willing to strike a trade deal in order to keep selling their goods to Britain. What they always fail to mention is that those British exports to the EU represent over 50% of all UK exports, while the amount that the EU sells to Britain represents only 10% of total EU exports. Britain has absolutely no leverage in terms of trade.

Absolutely correct. The Brexit argument is convincing only to the economically illiterate.

@ ANOther

The Bremainers sound far more hysterical than the Brexiters, who at least have a vision of how they would like to improve the U.K.

The vision seems to be "leave the EU, cease all immigration, and then everything will get better." But if we leave, immigration will continue, nothing will get better, and some things will get worse.

People don't get to vote on capitalism, so they vote on E.U. membership instead.

Are you under the impression that a Boris Johnson led, Tory led UK would cease to be capitalist outside the EU?! If you want to make a stand against rampant capitalism, a vote for Corbyn would do far more than a Brexit vote!

@tangerine

Either way Japan needn't worry. If the UK stays there will be no change, so no need to do anything. If the UK leaves, the EU will disintegrate quite quickly.

I think the disintegration of the EU would be a very great worry indeed to Japanese firms, and to all firms in the EU or trading with the EU, and to the global economy as a whole. It would be a disastrous mess and the only party that would benefit from it would be Putin and his KGB klepto gang.

Ireland 2008 Treaty of Lisbon - Public voted against but result ignored Greece 2015 Bailout Referendum - Public voted against but result ignored Netherlands 2016 Ukraine EU association- Public voted against but result ignored

This illustrates the problems with the Brexit campaign; half-truths and disinformation. None of those referendums were ignored. The treaty of Lisbon was modified as a result of the Irish rejection and then put to a second vote which it passed; Greece rejected the bailout on the basis of the referendum and was then able to negotiate a better one; the Dutch referendum was non-binding anyway, but if it were ignored it would be the Dutch govt, not the EU, doing the ignoring - but in any case it has not been ignored, has it? Following the vote, the Netherlands has not in fact ratified the EU Ukraine agreement; it has adhered to the result (so far); this means the agreement is not ratified and not in force. So why does the Brexit campaign falsely claim the referendum has been ignored?

@godfrey

After all...if they run out of money they can 'print it' or call on 'richer' Euro countries (guess who) to shell out to such as Greece.

Guess who? Not the UK. The UK is not in the Eurozone and did not bail Greece out. It's a pretty good position to be in, benefiting from EU membership without having to join the Eurozone as all other members must (bar Sweden)

Mass immigration has brought religious problems also

Are you talking about the 'mass immigration' of Catholics from the EU? Or the 'mass immigration' of a certain other religion from non-EU, mostly Commonwealth nations, that has been going on for decades, has nothing to do with the EU, and would continue if we left the EU?

The notion of 'multi-culturalism' was a policy now rightly derided

It's only derided by those who don't like living with other cultures.

the UK has always welcomed those wishing to settle in the UK and bring a 'freshness' to its shores (Japan needs to learn from us with its decreasing 'Japanese' population)

Your position here seems very contradictory. If the UK were to leave the EU and cease all immigration (which wouldn't actually happen - immigration would continue anyway), we would wind up in the very position you're saying is causing Japan to have problems.

I could say (and probably with some justificaion) those wishing to continue to remain in the EU do not have the UK's future at heart.....lining their own pockets is their priority

Sorry, but I don't think you're justified in saying that at all. I wish for us to remain in the EU and it has absolutely nothing to do with lining my pockets; I wish to remain because I think it is better for the UK.

After Brexit...they might not find 'not paying their dues' so easy as it used to be.

I disagree. After a Brexit, they would find it easier to not pay their dues; do you really think that a Boris Johnson Tory government would be more able or willing to go after offshore tax dodging than the EU is?

@those considering voting for Brexit

Pay attention to the fact that Japanese firms want us to stay; to the fact that following a Brexit they would, over time, move assets and jobs out if the UK; and consider that this applies not only to Japanese firms.

From the perspective of Japanese firms, it's a no-brainer. I agree with them.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

The main reason that many in the UK the country the it wants to leave the EU is the loss of sovereignty - of the right to determine who comes into the country and who does not, of the right to determine with whom it trades, and what support if any it gives to other countries over a whole range of matters. Its citizens have always had the right to work in other countries if that country wants them, and vice versa. It is likely that the UK will vote to stay in, unfortunately, but personally I hope it votes to leave, and if that causes the whole EU to collapse, so be it. Japanese industry can surely re-negotiate any agreements necessary for its factories in the UK; it's hardly likely that the UK government of the day will want them to leave and lose jobs!

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

I could say (and probably with some justificaion) those wishing to continue to remain in the EU do not have the UK's future at heart.....lining their own pockets is their priority and of their own kind. Its nice to have some foreign bank hide away the stash of dough they hope the tax man does not get what he is entitled to.

"Probably with some justification" sums up Brexit nicely. Thank you!

3 ( +4 / -1 )

@Godfrey King. You may be "72 with a little more knowledge of history and the 'lived through' experience as our 'Europe' venture developed," but one of your assertions is a little dishonest. Strictly speaking you are right that "we did not have a referendum to 'go in' which was negotiated by our eventual Prime Minister Edward Heath" but there was a referendum in 1975 on whether to remain in the EEC. "The electorate expressed significant support for EEC membership, with 67% in favour on a 65% turnout."

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Japanese industry can surely re-negotiate any agreements necessary for its factories in the UK; it's hardly likely that the UK government of the day will want them to leave and lose jobs!

Utterly naïve balderdash.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

This article gives you an idea of the kind of reasoning after the humanities will have been abolished and let the corporates rule.

Govts are indepted and Corps have the money.

So who decides?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

@Tony W

The main reason that many in the UK the country the it wants to leave the EU is the loss of sovereignty - of the right to determine who comes into the country and who does not, of the right to determine with whom it trades

This is true; for the majority who want out, it's a question of the perceived lack of sovereignty and the emotional response they have to that. But looking at it logically and practically, leaving the EU will make no difference to the issues you've raised. The UK is not in Schengen, which means we already do determine which non-EU citizens come in; and if we leave the EU but then want to sign a free trade agreement with the EU (as the Brexit campaign says we would), it has been made very clear that one of the requirements of such an agreement would be free movement for EU citizens (this is the situation that Norway and Switzerland are in). So leaving the EU would make no difference to who we let in, but it would take away any influence we have over EU decision making so it would in fact be worse. The only alternative - to not sign a trade agreement with the EU - would be economic suicide and would do far more damage to the UK than any of the things that presently upset Brexit supporters.

As for the right to determine with whom we trade; we are far better off negotiating as part of the EU block than we would be alone. What Obama said is true; the UK would be at the back of the line. Meanwhile China would be most happy to eat us alive.

Japanese industry can surely re-negotiate any agreements necessary for its factories in the UK; it's hardly likely that the UK government of the day will want them to leave and lose jobs!

Naturally the UK government wouldn't want the Japanese companies to leave; but the Japanese companies won't give that the slightest importance when they make their decisions. They will do what is best for them, and that would be to relocate to the EU. What do you mean they can re-negotiate any agreements? Japanese companies have no power whatsoever to negotiate trade agreements between the UK and the EU or anyone else. If we leave the EU, Japanese companies (and those from everywhere else) will find the UK to be a less attractive business environment than it presently is, and would, over time, withdraw their investment and their jobs to the EU.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

The fear-mongering insider-cronies will stop at nothing, including vote fraud to prevent a Brexit. It's a dog-and-pony show. Japanese businesses needn't worry.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

I am sure Japanese companies will wait until the referendum result before stating their intentions. I just can't see them moving all of the plants and offices into a new, poorer EU if a UK exit happens.

M3M3M3 was bit off with the 50% export figure.That figure was correct in 2008, but in 2014 the EU only made up 44% the UK exports (according to the IMF). This figure also doesn't take into account how much export is classed as going to the Europe Union but travels through Rotterdam to countries outside the EU. It's very difficult to slap a precise percentage on it.

What I'd take away from this is that in 8 years there has been at least an 11% drop in exports to the EU (It was 55% in 2006) and the EU is a market that is shrinking. That being the case I don't think Japanese companies see any profit in moving everything over to the continent.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Whether it's 44% or 50%, the point stands that EU trade is a far larger percentage of the UK's trade than vice versa, and that it is therefore false to say that they need us more than we need them.

I don't think Japanese companies see any profit in moving everything over to the continent.

It's not about profit in moving; it's about avoiding a loss of profit by staying after a possible Brexit..

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

A lot of people don't get it! Staying in Europe allows faceless entities to govern the British people! That can't be right. And to have a one law for all approach for all countries seems politically right on - in reality it is not. I've lived in three EU countries,all with significantly large differences.

The EU doesn't and cannot work and for those wishing to take a harder look you'll see that it is falling apart.......

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

I'm a Brit who wants to stay in Europe... last thing I want is the UK wallowing about looking for new friends to play with. All we hear from the Brexit people is we can do well, it'll be okay... but I haven't seen a shred of evidence or support from overseas to support that view.

Plus I want to be able to travel to Japan without applying for a Visa, and I have a feeling that leaving the EU would jeopardise that.

Also, I trust that loon Boris as far as I could spit him!

4 ( +6 / -2 )

In 1971 the then E.E.C. commanded 38% of Global GDP. there will need to be a five loaves and two fishes event if by 2025 the figure does not stagnate to below 12%.

The EU as a institutional political, and economic policy making body has reached the point of no return. The single currency has meant that member have lost the ability to manage and control any facet of monetary policy in order to respond to prevailing national economic conditions.

Fixed exchange rate mean the ability to respond to the destabilizing and ultimately cumulative effects of differences in productivity have reflected on youth unemployment, already unacceptably high, has become detrimental to the social cohesion of whole regions and states.

Current and future generations in Greece, Sweden, France, Italy, Portugal, Spain, and in many respects the UK have been caught by centralist political and monetary policy that in the past few years have dramatically exacerbated the enrollment in post/secondary higher education, a devastating disconnect between the right skills and a suitable job. The financing to make education more affordable and accessible does not exist.

A Interdependent flexible community is paramount to provide a more successful decentralized decision making governmental process.

The UK outside of the EU could certainly compete globally, as the EU will inevitably revert to protectionism, the UK can micro manage a more liberal trading relationship.

However UK on exit will certainly initially lose some 1.7% of GDP. This will reverse as a more flexible market policy evolves. This will depend on how focused a deregulatory approach a future UK government took on the economy.

Open up fully to free trade scenarios with like minded trading partners would bring permanent gains in GDP specifically where scenarios of mixes policy approaches were adopted.

It will be my generation that will have to face the consequences of the Brexit debate degenerating to what amounts to game of hide and seek with Churchill bust in a spate of White House redecoration, and a special relationship I am beginning to wonder ever really existed.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

What I'd take away from this is that in 8 years there has been at least an 11% drop in exports to the EU (It was 55% in 2006)

You can thank your new best friend, China, for that. Pity Xi's love for Britain doesn't include steel, though.

last thing I want is the UK wallowing about looking for new friends to play with

exactly, T2.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Rocknroll,

In 1971 the then E.E.C. commanded 38% of Global GDP. there will need to be a five loaves and two fishes event if by 2025 the figure does not stagnate to below 12%.

Nothing to do with "EU stagnation"; everything to do with the meteoric rise of China, and the Four Tigers before it, and India to come (you point out the EU's declining % share but fail to mention that the same decline is seen in all economies that were already developed in 1971). All the more reason for the UK to remain within the world's largest trading bloc (and largest economy); outside it, we would be eaten alive. The days when we could force unequal trade agreements on Asian nations are very long gone; China for one has not forgiven or forgotten the opium wars, and if we leave the EU we'll find ourselves completely outgunned trying to trade with those giants by ourselves.

However UK on exit will certainly initially lose some 1.7% of GDP

Initially. Far more again once we lost all the international business and jobs that we surely would, and more again once Scotland left the UK as it quite likely would.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Hi Yoshitsune, Open Europe has the numbers at around a loss at 0.9% ish quantifiable figures are dependent on existing trading relationships being maintained. I have overstated because I have always supported the UK membership of the EU because of the benefits of the single market above all else.

Humor me for a moment...

The EU single market has and is hampered by member states introducing new protectionist measures to influence direct corporate funding, i.e. Google, Amazon, Apple .

The political will to compel the EU commission to make any meaningful reforms has evaporated as the aggressive ECB bond buying stimulus has failed to produce fundamental cyclical recovery. In fact the whole sorry saga had totally failed to haul member states governments to meaningfully cut wasteful spending.

Remarkably the programme has perversely encouraged more government not less. Add to this a distortion in wage flexibility means that one state can substantially undermine another compounding falling incomes through slower wage growth because of the resulting lost industries.

The ECB monetary failure was/is to set policy for all not the chosen few. Present and future fiscal deficits in the South will ensure the markets will view the possibility of default as inevitable.

The debate must focus on the fundamentals, a proposed 'fiscal/banking union' which would transfer unprecedented powers to an executive body without member states parliamentary control? This would hollow out any structure of economic governance.

Scotland is a region within the EU not a member state. As for Scotland leaving the union, one has to consider currency and pensions. It's something of a red herring.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

When Edward Heath was given the assessment of what the impact of Joining the then EEC was on future British Sovereignty, his reaction was to put it in to his pocket and state "The Cabinet must never see this let alone the British people" The whole basis of the "story" sold to the electorate was that it was just a trading organisation. What was not told to them but has become eminently clear in the interim is that the generational programme of ever closer union (regardless of any inconvenient democratic objection) will be driven through to the final culmination of the eradication of any vestige of national sovereignty. What is at stake is the existence of Britain as a country, and the democratic right of the British people to have a say in their own future and the running of their own country. The immigration issues (which are also becoming more prevalent in a majority of European countries not just Britain) is merely symptomatic of the underlying problem of a lack of democratic viability and the helplessness engendered in individuals where the decision making process affecting their everyday lives are removed further and further away in to more corporatist and elitist un-elected hands.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

MoonrakerApr. 25, 2016 - 02:17PM JST @Godfrey King. You may be "72 with a little more knowledge of history and the 'lived through' experience as our 'Europe' venture developed," but one of your assertions is a little dishonest. Strictly speaking you are right that "we did not have a referendum to 'go in' which was negotiated by our eventual Prime Minister Edward Heath" but there was a referendum in 1975 on whether to remain in the EEC. "The electorate expressed significant support for EEC membership, with 67% in favour on a 65% turnout."

** Hi Moonraker! sorry...you are wrong. In Harold Wilson's 1975 renegotiation the British people were asked to suport or reject the re-negotiated terms. That is not asking a direct 'Yes or No' to staying in or coming out. 'Dave' tried the same trick this time...in fact, unlike Wilson, he didn't even bother to re-negotiate anything meaningful and what he di 'offer' the EU can reject post-referendum.

Far better to add to what I wrote by studying 'aspyrgend' above this e-mail:-

englisc aspyrgendApr. 26, 2016 - 12:24AM JST When Edward Heath was given the assessment of what the impact of Joining the then EEC was on future British Sovereignty, his reaction was to put it in to his pocket and state "The Cabinet must never see this let alone the British people"

As I explained...deception was practised on the electorate as it still is.

*As for 'Yoshitsune' above (quoting me then making an assertion):-

After all...if they run out of money they can 'print it' or call on 'richer' Euro countries (guess who) to shell out to such as Greece.

Guess who? Not the UK. The UK is not in the Eurozone and did not bail Greece out. It's a pretty good position to be in, benefiting from EU membership without having to join the Eurozone as all other members must (bar Sweden) * **

Yoshitusune....you make the mistake that brought the whole of the Western Banking system and financial management of myriad contries and orgs, political theorists etc etc to its knees. That somehow if you take money from one fund, it does not effect another. It is very simple to grasp if you try. Abe in Japan fell for the same assumption. The UK may not have directly paid from a fund marked 'for loans to such as Greece on their uppers' but if a 'Union' you are supposed to be part of spend money in vast sums even if your pen is not on the worthless paper such sums are written on the the 'Union' is going to come cap in hand from whoever it can (including and especially the UK) to make up the deficit they now have / shortage of funds as Greece can't pay it back. Its gone, kaput, schtum, vamoosed! Learn simple economics 'Yoshi' and the world may learn with you. The 'bankers' indulged in ever complicated 'money earning' systems as a selling point.......they got so involved with 'trading names and PR' that come the end even they had no understanding of what they were selling.

I hope I have picked up enough misunderstandings relating to my input into yesterdays discussion....and 'Moonraker' and 'Yoshi' can now venture forth anew and fresh with real facts for their future. I wish you both well!

I must get on with a few things....but thanks for responding at least.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

In Harold Wilson's 1975 renegotiation the British people were asked to suport or reject the re-negotiated terms. That is not asking a direct 'Yes or No' to staying in or coming out.

The question on the ballot paper was, "Do you think the UK should stay in the European Community (Common Market)?" That seemed fairly direct to me at the time.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Well, the Peeping was not alive then, but he can sometimes read.

"Faced with the referendum question, "Do you think the UK should stay in the European Community (Common Market)?" Britons voted "Yes" in most of the 68 administrative counties, regions and Northern Ireland. Only Shetland and the Western Isles voted against the EEC. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/june/6/newsid_2499000/2499297.stm

Me thinks somebody is telling porkies right here on this site.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Rocknroll,

So are you an innie or an outie?!

Godfrey,

Learn simple economics 'Yoshi' and the world may learn with you

Simple economics is why leaving the EU is a terrible idea.

You haven't explained the contradiction in your position that while multiculturalism is bad for your home country the UK, you think Japan needs more of it and are happy to be part of making it so.

Moonraker' and 'Yoshi' can now venture forth anew and fresh with real facts for their future

You haven't provided any real facts; only the misinformation and nonsense that the entire brexit campaign is based on.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

*Peeping_TomApr. 26, 2016 - 06:48AM JST

Well, the Peeping was not alive then, but he can sometimes read.

Hi PT. But you can not 'feel' the first hand experience. I explained that "In Harold Wilson's 1975 renegotiation the British people were asked to suport or reject the re-negotiated terms. That is not asking a direct 'Yes or No' to staying in or coming out.". Whatever the question was on the ballot paper (as is the case to-day) that is how the Wilson Government presented it and backed the question up with mass and misleading assertions....the question on the ballot paper refers to 'A Common Market'....if it had said 'Would you wish to stay in the Common Market if it became an ever increasing political union causing the loss of Britains's sovreignty and its powers to decide its own laws and future' then that would have been closer to the reality that Heath himself knew likely and the arguments and the reation of the British electorate almost certainly different. I was not specific in my comments to what question was actually on the ballot paper.

It all depends on interpretation. And 'Yoshie' you seem to be 'interpreting' a lot based on assumptions otherwise on which authority do you assert this.....are you a Japanese Government spokesman sent in to continue to cause fear by writing to such forums as these? How can you possibly know this? I was at a dinner function where a leading Bristish politician told many leading Japanese industrialists and many from their political establishment the assertions you promote are false. The Brexit literature has take the trouble to explain that...seek out UKIP's and the Leave campaign's info on it. Going on saying 'you have not provided any real facts'...it is there...read it...it covers more pages and uses more words than I have time for.

Multicultualism: I said as a Government policy it was wrong.....I did welcome some aspects of it. and explained what I organised in that respect. No contradiction there. It is only that you are looking to make an argument when there is not one. Faced with a multitude of facts and you would deny there were any. I think you must be Japanese yourself! Japan has a falling Japanese population...it needs fresh blood and thoughts.

'Simple economics' reeferred to the banking system etc....and staying within a 'Union' who has no care that its auditors have refused to sign off their books of account for 20 years does not sound like 'simple economics' one should position oneself alongside

*

Naturally the UK government wouldn't want the Japanese companies to leave; but the Japanese companies won't give that the slightest importance when they make their decisions. They will do what is best for them, and that would be to relocate to the EU. What do you mean they can re-negotiate any agreements? *

Yes....I am sure some will based on 'lining their own pockets' of course. Thus my previous assertion (some!) of those wishing to stay in do so to line their own pockets. Take my advice on that one Yoshie....start arguing that way on behalf of the Japanese and the worms underneath the closed lid of the grabage bin will really burst open. Not a consideration as to the well-being of those that are hosts to the Japanese.....bow and smile and say how wonderful everything is until your obligations to the 'Emperor' demand you go elsewhere. Then 'switch off' and go elsewhere. Not everyone are capable of nomadic emotions. So be it....and China and the UK will profit from the lessons learned.There is more to life than financial profit Yoshie. Ever heard of the quality of life......but Japan would not dream of considering such principles would it. Obviously you are confident of that or you would not assert what you proclaim. But nails will stick up and too many to knock back down.

Say what Yoshi. Have a drink on me....put it on the EU tab and I'll pay them back sometime! (I note you have a new UK Ambassador soon in London. You're for it if he has been briefed to 'think differently'.).

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

are you a Japanese Government spokesman sent in to continue to cause fear by writing to such forums as these?

No, I'm a British citizen who sees that leaving the EU would make us less attractive to foreign business. Simple economics.

seek out UKIP's and the Leave campaign's info

I'm well aware of UKIP's "info". It is incorrect and disingenuous.

Going on saying 'you have not provided any real facts'

You haven't.

I'm still nonplussed as to your position on multiculturalism. Bad for the UK, good for Japan; why? Because you're a foreigner who wants to live in Japan?

I think you must be Japanese yourself!

? Please do elaborate.

staying within a 'Union' who has no care that its auditors have refused to sign off their books of account for 20 years does not sound like 'simple economics'

If you think that a Boris Johnson Tory govt would be any more transparent you're having a laugh. The Tories are far more in league with the bankers the EU is. We didn't bail Greece out, but we did bail our banks out. That is where the squeeze has come from.

bow and smile and say how wonderful everything is until your obligations to the 'Emperor' demand you go elsewhere

Sorry, I'm not sure what this ramble is about. I made the point that Japanese companies would find the UK less attractive if we left they EU, and would eventually relocate a lot of their business as a result. You've failed to address that.

There is more to life than financial profit Yoshie

Indeed there is, but that won't stop international businesses leaving; they are motivated by profit. That I recognise that doesn't mean I live that way myself. And that's another reason I will vote to stay in the EU - I trust the EU and the ECHR with my human rights and protecting my way of life far more than I trust the Tories.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I trust the EU and the ECHR with my human rights and protecting my way of life far more than I trust the Tories

That's an interesting point of view, and one I'm coming round to more and more. In general, I'm against large bureaucratic institutions such as the EU. However, the alternative of an increasingly south-east centric UK that panders to the rich and powerful is worrying.

So are you an innie or an outie?!

Some more navel gazing to do yet. :-)

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Hi albaleo, thanks for your input.

Indeed; as much as I dislike bureaucracy, as a Scottish-born Yorkshireman I have no logical reason to think that the politicians in Westminster would protect my rights any better than the bureaucrats in Brussels. The only reason to think that would be blind nationalism, and nationalism is not logical. In fact, I suspect that outside the EU a Tory government would actually be worse for our human rights.

Some more navel gazing to do yet

Haha!

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

"It all depends on interpretation... you seem to be 'interpreting' a lot based on assumptions"

Brave words from the source of:

"I could say (and probably with some justification)"

Which is happy to copy/paste a baseless (unfindable in Google UK or Google Scholar):

"The Cabinet must never see this let alone the British people"

Come on Brexiters, you can do better than this balderdash. Can't you?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Hi Yoshitsune, I am a Hafu, Japanese mother, English father. I chose Japanese citizenship and am the proud holder of a Japanese passport. Educated in the UK, and have spent the majority of my 28 years in London and voluntarily helping out on my English families farming and land holdings. At present I reside in Japan.

My experience is in finance as a quant, analyzing statistics and presenting measurement modelling, and research. I have experience as a research assistant at the London school of Economics where I obtained my qualifications.

I firm supporter of the single market, I think this is the 'crown jewel' to membership of the EU. I am not eligible for a vote so I am presenting a personal opinion. Of course there is a risk to the UK leaving the EU. Politically more than economically. I would vote to leave if the provisions of exit were amicably negotiated.....But in the cold light of day this is the same scenario of 'The guy works down the chip shop swears he's Elvis'. ....

I want to ask you a question, it is related to Scottish independence and is relevant .

Were you eligible to vote? Either way would you break the union or remain? and Why?.......

For a moment let make some assumptions, the Scottish Parliament was able to retain Sterling as a currency, and the rest of the UK was susceptible to underwrite future pension provision under the stewardship of the Bank of England.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Hi Rocknroll, thanks for the background. Regardless of your ineligibility to vote, you're certainly in a position to have an informed and interesting perspective and your input to the debate is something I welcome.

On the Scottish referendum, no I was not eligible to vote; eligibility was determined by being officially resident in Scotland (which I have not been since a young age - in UK bureau-jargon my 'habitual residence' is in England). In other words, Socttish people resident elsewhere didn't have a vote, while all Brits, EU citizens, and Commonwealth citizens resident in Scotland did (as a Japanese passport holder, you would not have been able to vote had you been officially resident in Scotland; but a citizen of e.g. India, Australia, or Germany would have qualified if resident).

Had I been eligible, I would have voted to remain within the UK - regardless of the sterling & banking issues.

If the UK as a whole votes to leave the EU in June, but the result in Scotland goes the other way, I would expect Scotland to hold another independence referendum in due course - likely with the opposite result.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

in UK bureau-jargon my 'habitual residence' is in England.

Hi Yoshie,

Well done rockandroll. Of course, you are an 'Habitual Residence' Yoshie but not one enveloped with the feelings of what it means to be someone born in the UK and what that feels like. You are so certain what a Japanese company will do and what the conditons will be to cause them think that way...that your 'facts' are your unshakeable assumptions no-one can possibly be truly aware of if we stay or leave the EU. And, typically, the minute a point is made about the facts of the EU (auditors not signing of their books for 20 years) you are perfectly capable of degenerating your argument into pointless speculation that the alternative to utter corruption is a Boris Johnson led government. I wouldn't vote for such a scenario and many others would not. It is not about who is the most popular personality to follow and that is how we will vote. It is about 'Independance' and your clear attachment to Japan as a quasi-spokesman for it (which many Japanese I know would not agree with you) but let anyone suggest Japan form a similar union with Korea, China, Taiwan etc etc and it would not even get on to a piece of paper for discussion. You want US to chuck our independance for the sake of a few Japanese companies who, judging by the Daily News, are best not relied on as honest dealers themselves and not what we would want here.

There you go again on Multi-culturalism....as if I said I was against it. Not at all.....I made the point it as a Government policy and allowing in large numbers culturally and socially ignorant of their hosts history and only their own, can only lead to social and economic disturbance...which it has. It was too much, too soon. The point I made about Japan is if the UK Gov position was one of being guilty of allowing 'too much, too soon' then the Japanese Gov could be accused of, if any encouragement, 'too little, too late'.

Anyway, Yoshie...I wish you all the best and would not be at all surprised to meet you one day. Do say 'Hello' which ever way you vote and whichever part of the UK you might find yourself in.

'Its only Rock and Roll if you like it!'

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Well done rockandroll. Of course, you are an 'Habitual Residence' Yoshie but not one enveloped with the feelings of what it means to be someone born in the UK and what that feels like

What on earth are you talking about? I know exactly what it feels like to be born and raised in the UK, because I was born and raised in the UK. If being resident in Asia now somehow invalidates my Britishness, then does it not your own? You do know what habitual residence means, right? Where is yours?

your clear attachment to Japan as a quasi-spokesman for it

?

You want US to chuck our independance for the sake of a few Japanese companies who

No, I do not. Don't try to put false arguments in my mouth; I have said no such thing. I want the UK to stay in the EU for the sake of the UK's future prosperity; it has nothing to do with 'the sake of Japanese companies'. The point about Japanese companies, and companies from everywhere else, is not that we should stay in for their sake; it's that when they say things such as this article reports, we need to pay attention to that as it indicates what will likely follow a Brexit, which is to say movement of investment and jobs out of the UK. To ignore that is burying your head in the sand.

let anyone suggest Japan form a similar union with Korea, China, Taiwan etc etc and it would not even get on to a piece of paper for discussion

It would be a good idea, but they're too busy hating each other.

the UK Gov position was one of being guilty of allowing 'too much, too soon'

Too much, too soon? Could you please specify when exactly you mean by 'too soon'? You've mentioned the religious problems caused by mass immigration, so I presume you're talking about immigration from places such as Pakistan. Immigration to the UK from Pakistan has nothing to do with the EU, predates the EU, and will continue even if the UK votes for a Brexit. Surely you realise this?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

No, the foreign companies would not leave the UK as where would they go? The Japanese rely on using English in their negotiations and leaving to set up in Paris or Berlin would be too problematic. Also, there are many reasons why the UK is the country of choice for many foreigners-the UK is growing and dynamic and free of a lot of the barriers that opening a business in continental Europe has.......

0 ( +1 / -1 )

*YoshitsuneApr. 27, 2016 - 10:04PM JST

Well done rockandroll. Of course, you are an 'Habitual Residence' Yoshie but not one enveloped with the feelings of what it means to be someone born in the UK and what that feels like

What on earth are you talking about? I know exactly what it feels like to be born and raised in the UK, because I was born and raised in the UK. If being resident in Asia now somehow invalidates my Britishness, then does it not your own? You do know what habitual residence means, right? Where is yours?*

My apology Yoshie. I had no idea when you referred to being an 'Habitual Resident' you were talking about what you thought the UK should do whilst not just living in another country but actually taking up a citizenship of it. I do know what being an 'Habitual Resident' means....I actually took up such a case on behalf of a Japanese Woman and her two children wanting to live in the UK ......! I hope I have got your somewhat confused background correct this time. You have moved to Asia (quite a lot to choose from as to your precise country of choice), call it home but think everyone should remain in the EU to the betterment of the pockets of those money orientated people who merely want the UK as a cash cow who have no other ties with it other than that. After having left it yourself it is what would one expect.

Yes...China , Japan etc....'Hate each other' (well...not each and every one but.....!). So you do not think it right then to force such 'little people' to-gether devoid of what they think about each other? Don't you see...this attitude of 'Thou Shalt Live To-gether For It Profiteth I' is why we are getting so much unrest in the world. Because people see these money men and 'no loyalty to anyone' campaigners move around the world, shifting their millions and hiding it in cozy little covet paradises so that those they earn from and help them earn it will pay their taxes will not see the fruits of their earning power in working for others to make them mooney...and that's all ok with you.....from afar.

I note JapanToday have ceased to reveal our discourse to the world....and no doubt you willl not wish me to have the last word....but it is my last word. Clearly you are an 'Habitual Resident' somewhere and not in the UK...you have written you are....but not one in the UK where you were born, brought up then chucked. Nuff said. I presume, then, you have no vote in the referendum. Why should you?

For the record...I was born in Somerset of Anglo-Saxon parentage, moved to London in 2004....and will vote 'Leave'.

All The Best Yoshie,

GK

0 ( +2 / -2 )

What on earth are you talking about? Habitual residence dies not mean I have taken up citizenship elsewhere. I haven't 'chucked' the UK. Habitual residence is a tax office definition of where a UK citizen's UK address is, in the event that they are a non-permanent resident overseas. I am not a permanent resident or citizen of Japan i.e. I am a temporary resident of Japan. I am a citizen of the UK, and in my case my habitual residency is my parents' home address, which is used by the tax office as my address for tax purposes and is where I'm registered on the electoral roll. If like me you are living in Japan but still a citizen of the UK, then you also have a habitual residence; if you still own a house in the UK, then it is probably that. So when I answered rocknroll's question about the Scottish referendum, I was explaining that for British citizens like myself eligibility to vote in the Scottish referendum was determined by having habitual residence in Scotland. My habitual residence is in Yorkshire, so despite my Scottish birth I could not vote in the Scottish referendum. Got it?

Now that you hopefully understand that habitual residence is something we both have and that it doesn't have anything to do with 'chucking' the UK, hopefully see that the rest of your comments are wide of the mark:

I hope I have got your somewhat confused background correct this time

No, you've got it utterly wrong.

You have moved to Asia (and), call it home

No, I call Yorkshire home, I call England home, I call the UK home. Asia is only my temporary residence at this time. I have also lived in Oz, NZ, Canada, and Austria (which was nice and easy what with them also being in the EU - no visa hassles, unlike in Japan!)

think everyone should remain in the EU to the betterment of the pockets of those money orientated people who merely want the UK as a cash cow who have no other ties with it other than that

No, as already stated I think we should stay because it is better for the UK's future prosperity and I'm not affected by the blind nationalism which motivates most Brexit supporters.

After having left it yourself it is what would one expect.

I have left it no more than you have.

you do not think it right then to force such 'little people' to-gether devoid of what they think about each other?

Little people? Your words not mine. No one forced the people of Europe together. We chose it. If Asia comes together, they have to choose it. Unfortunately they seem closer to war than unity.

Because people see these money men and 'no loyalty to anyone' campaigners move around the world, shifting their millions and hiding it in cozy little covet paradises

If you blame this on the EU, then it's understandable that you like the EU; but if you blame this on the EU, you've been duped. It has nothing to do with the EU and will continue just the same if we leave the EU.

You've attempted and failed to discredit my arguments on the erroneous basis that you think I've permanently left the UK. Now that I've corrected your misunderstanding, do you think you could address the arguments themselves? (hopefully without the attempts to make personal attacks)

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

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