Toyota plans to test liquid hydrogen car in 2023 endurance races

Cool.

Cool.

Yep, cryogenically cold.

Interesting. I have been watching these developments for some time now and commend Toyota’s efforts in this direction. I would really love to have a hydrogen car one day very soon. Fuel cell, or straight burn.

Why the extra step to convert energy to hydrogen, and then back to energy again?!

Electric cars make more sense to me.

There is no point, hydrogen combustion ban is included in the 2030(UK)/2035(EU/US CARB states) ICE ban.

Beside, Toyota's actually seeing a significant market share decrease in sales of plug-in vehicles in the US RIGHT NOW. 15 years from now, Japanese automakers would disappear from developed markets with ICE ban if Toyota doesn't change the course right now.

Only two forms of powertrain is acceptable in post-ICE-ban world; EV or hydrogen fuel cell.

https://insideevs.com/news/629813/us-toyota-plugin-car-sales-2022q4/

US: Toyota Plug-In Car Sales Decreased By A Third In 2022

Both the total volume and electrified car sales were down as well.

Worse, Koreans are now leapfrogging the competition in EV range by 2025, going from 330 highway miles per charge to over 500 highway miles per change. At that point, range anxiety and fast charging(18 minute to charge from 15% to 80%) is no longer a big issue for consumers.

https://insideevs.com/news/615829/hyundai-new-em-platform-offer-50percent-more-range-than-current-evs/

Hyundai's New eM Platform To Offer 50% More Range Than Current EVs

Starting off with the new EV platforms that will be introduced in 2025, the eM and eS, the Korean automaker said they will be created under its Integrated Modular Architecture (IMA) system, a shared hardware and software platform for its vehicles.

Please give us pictures of the car, esp the engine part!

@xin can. Many on the net if you search.

Edit. = xin xin

Hydrogen power is a thing that has been just around the corner for the past 60 years. I am certainly not against it, but take claims of its imminent introduction with a grain of salt.

There are some hydrogen buses.

Why the extra step to convert energy to hydrogen, and then back to energy again?!

Electric cars make more sense to me.

There is a reasonable case to be made for hydrogen. For one thing, the range of electric vehicles drops substantially in cold weather. Hydrogen is also easier to store than electricity, especially in remote locations. Finally, hydrogen engines do not require all the rare earth elements that batteries do.

Toyota will never give up on Hydrogen again!

@Septim Dynasty

It's the only choice they have. They (And the rest of Japanese automakers) are massively behind in EVs and will never catch up to the marketleaders. Already, they are posting YoY sales declines. Profitability will take a massive hit as sales drop and those fixed costs have to be spread over fewer units.

Their only option is to bank it on hydrogen and hope that they make some kind of breakthrough. Don't hold your breath. Japanese automakers have had a series of major missteps over the past few decades (Takata exploding airbags that continue to kill people to this day).

Why the extra step to convert energy to hydrogen, and then back to energy again?!

Electric cars make more sense to me.

The short answer is portability. If you live in a big city and don't have to travel great distances then electric vehicles can work. But for long haul trucking, heavy construction in remote regions, and those of us who live in rural areas from from big city amenities who must cover long distances between fuel stops, a hydrogen powered vehicles could make more sense. In really cold weather the heaters required for batteries consume a very large proportion of the total available charge and this greatly reduces their range. There are places in the US, Canada and Australia where fuel stops are hundreds of kilometers apart and there is nothing in between but open range or desert.

The maritime industry has a similar problem and is busy testing hydrogen and ammonia, and combinations of the two fuels, in the big five story tall engines that power the worlds biggest container cargo ships, tankers and bulkers. The Norwegians and other Nordic nations are prototyping plants that will produce hydrogen and ammonia using only renewable energy, solar wind or hydro power. The plants are built knowing there will be times when they lack energy to produce, but when there is energy they will produce enough to meet demand. In this way hydrogen and ammonia become zero carbon fuels. The maritime industry will lead the way on this technology. Wartsila has such engines undergoing tests now for ships to be built this decade.

It's the only choice they have. They (And the rest of Japanese automakers) are massively behind in EVs and will never catch up to the marketleaders.

Just me but I would greatly prefer a hydrogen powered vehicle to a battery electric vehicle.

@Desert Tortoise

In the end, economics will win. It's not wise to risk your entire business model (Economy, in Japan's case) on yet undiscovered breakthrough technologies that may or may not be possible.

Japan tried to beat China with EVs through NCM batteries while China focused on the "inferior" LFP batteries. While NCM batteries were more dense than LFP batteries, they were also more difficult to manufacture and more prone to fires. China was able to improve LFPs to the point where they're almost range-matching NCM batteries despite far lower costs. Japan, on the other hand, was unable to improve NCM as much and are lagging behind China.

The situation with "Fool Cells" is more dire, because at least with NCM, you at least have a starting point. There is no "starting point" for FCs; they're just much more inefficient and costly than EVs.

Your fears about EVs can be solved easily - Your range anxiety / weather-dependent range will be fixed via Tesla's 4680 cells, which they're ramping up. They're now at 2k 4680 car production per week.

They're also opening more charging stations by the year. The roadmap to mass-EV adoption is already clear. The roadmap to Fool Cell adoption, otho, isn't. Are you going to risk your money on some ungrounded moonshot breakthrough technology that no one even knows about yet? Japan certainly thinks it's a good idea.