Skepticism over Toyota's fixes grows as probe widens to Prius

Toyota will losse alot of money and customers this year.

Toyota has been hiding its problems for years. The problem is electrical, but they've been trying to pass it off as floor mats or mechanical. It's time to properly fund the NTSB so they can effectively go after the auto makers who knowingly sell defective products that kill people.

was it that Toyota was too fast to cash in on GM bankruptcy? 10M sale units...never materialized.

They never told Ford or GM owners to stop driving their cars amidst the dozens of recalls they've had.

Way to scam America. The US is now blowing this up too to save the American Car Industry. All cars have recalls. Ive never owned a car that hadnt had 2 or more recalls, american or otherwise. (all recalls are serious in nature otherwise they wouldnt be recalled!) They waited for the perfect time to attack. Lets see what japan does over this in the future. (but what can they really do, block the import of hollywood movies)

A few problems with Toyota, struggling US automakers, and US congressman desperately trying to keep their union supporters in their jobs are milking this problem for all it's worth. All this is shaping up to be a perfect storm for Toyota, and in turn Japan's worldwide image as a producer of quality cars. For the sake of the Japanese economy and their future, I hope they weather this storm.

There is a global economic crisis, and business is a war fought just as enthusiastically as real wars. American automakers and the congressmen that support them will do anything to gain market share.

Anything.

Watch your step, Toyota.

olsmonkey/lovejapan21/bamboohat -- you cannot be serious with that nonsense? The J-authorities, and puppy-dog press, basically put Schindler out of business here because of a single accident, and reveled in publicly humiliating Citi Bank several years ago over a minor infraction (conveniently while the big banks here were struggling, and you have the gall to accuse the U.S. of doing the same. Please, stop blindly reacting and actually start educating yourself. Even NHK is now questioning Toyota's trustworthiness given the problems now developing on the Prius braking system -- which they noted are ALL made in Japan. The fact is that Toyota knew about the sudden acceleration issues as far back as 2007, and at least 19 Americans have been killed in accidents due to this problem since then. If Japan had a right to made a big stink about the one tragic death that occurred due to the Schindler problems, the U.S. certainly has a right to do the same with 19 deaths and Toyota.

Considering the amount of money that was spent in bringing Toyota factories into the southern US, I don't see how there can be much of a political angle in this. But it sure getting strange. Was talking to somebody who's car (not a Toyota) had a stuck accelerator on the freeway, and she said it was no big deal. Just turned off the engine, used the hand brake, and pulled off into the rest area coming up. I think it is hard to believe that the highway patrol policeman in the 911 call didn't think of that, which must mean there is more going on than just the pedal.

U.S. Govenment should be a equal opportunity. Ford should be recalled too. The second highest occurrence of sudden acceleration was Ford, especially in their F-150 models. Toyota is about one in nearly 50,000. Ford's risk is about one in nearly 65,000.

If all factories are closed, so many Americans are out of jobs, they say the US economy gets deeply worse like Lehman shocks because millions of Americans are involved with Toyota. I'm not sure but I guess so.

It stinks to do business in "the land of the lawyeering."

That is Toyota's main market. Get out and you close Toyota.

You are correct Kwatt. You cannot go after Toyota. Way too many jobs at stake.

I don't think Toyota will loose market share to US car makers. I think it is more likely that Honda and Nissan will gain any share that Toyota looses.

Sfjp330- you somehow keep getting off track.

"U.S. Govenment should be a equal opportunity. Ford should be recalled too. The second highest occurrence of sudden acceleration was Ford, especially in their F-150 models"

But didn't you just explain the reasoning in another post ? Wait- here it is- from your own mouth I presume;

"Some consumers’ personal accounts indicate that the pedal arrangement in the popular F-150 pickup makes it too easy to hit the brake and accelerator at the same time"

That sounds more like driver error than a design flaw " Sorry, but you continue to talk incircles and really don't know what you are talking about. Unfortunately the problems for Toyota seem endless. I mean just the other day the headline read "14 reports of faulty brakes in the Prius". Upon closer look though we see now that the numbers reache well into the dozens, surpassing 100 for the US and Japan, and this is probably just the tip of the proverbial iceberg. In the meantime investors can't seem to dump their Toyota stock quick enough- Egads what a shame, but hey, Toyoyta had a nice run, and they did get that #1 crown... for a few months !

I hope Toyota goes bankrupt. Soon Japan will learn that money is not everything.

Toyota's in some pretty serious trouble here, even though most of the problem is merely perception.

That being said, LaHood's comment was indeed pretty irresponsible, and I've no doubt it was meant merely as a jab at the number one car manufacturer in the world, simply because it is not American. Damage done.

smithinjapan- your final comment is way off the mark. The US market has always been wide open for any and all comers. From the European VW's to the Korean Kia. The Japanese have had ample opportunity to milk the US consumer for as long and often as they wished. Unfortunately the same is not true for American auto makers in Japan, Korea, or even Europe for that matter. Toyota is in deep doo doo of it's own making and has nothing to do with not being an American company.

The answer is simple. Just buy Honda.

"The answer is simple. Just buy Honda."

The same Honda that just recalled about 650,000 vehicles world wide ? Granted, a small cry from the millions of recalls that Toyota is producing but still- Them Fords and Chevys just keep looking better and better by the minute- must be the new ad campaigns that keep popping up here at japantoday. Hey, may the best car win !

Branded -- absolutely. Toyota gets about 40% of its profit from the U.S. If they were not smart enough to protect that business when the gas pedal issue first arose in 2007, then they should get what they deserve. Respectfully, the Transportation Deparment in the U.S. acts totally differently than the one here. Here, the transport ministry basically works to protect Toyota and Japan Inc. In the U.S., they work to protect the consumer/citizen. If Japan is so myopic/dense that they have not figured that out in all these years, then they deserve to fail.

The press coverage of this is starting to remind me of the "sudden acceleration" problem that Audi was facing in the 80s with the 5000 series.

It turned out that the source of the problem was driver error, but they were still crucified by the US media - and they took a beating in the market as a result.

It turned out that the source of the problem was driver error

No it was not driver error.

If you have a car accident because of the pedal or brakes in the Prius and you knew about it without getting them fixed, you personally are liable. Do not drive your vehicles without getting them fixed. He was correct.

Junnama. Plz don't keep us waiting in suspense. Elaborate, man.

The whole affair makes me ashamed to be human.

Ultimately I guess Toyota are victims of the old "Deru Kui..." Japanese proverb, "The stake that stands proud gets hammered down".

I don't think Toyota will loose market share to US car makers.

Lose/loose fail.

Yahoo news and the Associated Press are now reporting that more than 180 complaints have been filed against the Toyota Prius. This is the crux of the problem folks- what Toyota says and what the US media are finding out are completely different. I sense a cover up of major proportions.

Nandakandamanda: The problem is well known in the industry plue in aviation. Airbus anyone? I will hint no further but for the right fee I can give anybody the full scoop.

correction: "plus in aviation."

Smith: La Hood is absolutely spot on! Pity he is being conned into rewording himself.

GJDailleult,

If I read correctly the articles concerning the CHP officer who died, he wasn't able to simply turn off the ignition to his Lexus because the car was equipped with keyless operation, and in order to turn the car off while in motion, he would have had to depress the off switch for 3 continuous seconds -- which, when hurtling down the highway at 120mph, might have a difficult detail to remember in a moment of panic. While that information was included in the owner's manual, the NTSA stated that this information should have been posted on the dashboard somewhere.

However, putting the car in Neutral whie in motion is possible in any car, as far as I know. And putting it in Park while in motion will automatically disengage the transmission and cut off the engine in some American and Japanese cars I know of. But again, in a moment of panic, it's hard to say with 20/20 hindsight what one should or shouldn't do.

Just turned off the engine, used the hand brake, and pulled off into the rest area coming up. I think it is hard to believe that the highway patrol policeman in the 911 call didn't think of that, which must mean there is more going on than just the pedal.

Even assuming the CHP man's civil suit against Toyota ever made it to trial (which it won't since Toyota will settle in a heartbeat), what do you think the chances would be of Toyota's legal team ever raising this kind of meritless argument in front of a jury? "Ladies and gentlemen, all he had to do was turn off the ignition and this whole problem could have been avoided." Lol.

The thing about these sudden reports of complaints about the Prius, or any other Toyota model out there, is that they are just that -- Very sudden.

Why now, of all times? Did people suddenly remember, "Hey, my brakes didn't work last month. I completely spaced that out." Or, "Wow. I totally forgot about that time last year when my car suddenly sped up on the the freeway and I couldn't stop it." In those cases, wouldn't they have gone to their dealer/repair shop immediately, and wouldn't possible problems or defects have subsequently been discovered sooner?

Exactly how many of these "sudden" reports of problems with Prius or other Toyota models are the result of the pedestrian variety of the "poor me" complex, in which people latch on to current headline news and try to make it apply to themselves? I just find it incredibly hard to believe that these new reported cases are legitimate. It reminds of when a UFO report hits the local news, and suddenly, everybody’s seen it, despite having been nowhere near the alleged sighting. Color me skeptical about these new reports.

The thing about these sudden reports of complaints about the Prius, or any other Toyota model out there, is that they are just that -- Very sudden.

That's not surprising at all. It's quite common behavior. For example, let's say someone brought to light that mr. X was sexually harassing someone. Once a victim makes a public claim, there will be more people who will recognize that something similar also happened to them and it was not imaginary --imaginary in the sense of mis-interpretation. In the case of Toyota, people, realizing it's an officially acknowledged problem are likely to bring up something that had previously chalked up to something inconclusive.

Not saying you should not be skeptical, just saying it's normal.

Here's an interesting article, if anyone cares to read it.

It takes a look at the relative average-ness of these supposed problems with the Prius.

m5c32,

That's a plausible explanation when you put it that way. Thanks. I'm still skeptical though. ;-)

"The thing about these sudden reports of complaints about the Prius, or any other Toyota model out there, is that they are just that -- Very sudden."

How do you define "sudden" ? Many of the reports against Toyota have dated back 3 years ! As for the Prius- obviously these clunkers have just rolled off the assembly line.

The fact that Toyota has said that only 11 complaints were made, and suddenly 110 complaints pop up points to a coverup. These complaints were dug up from investigations and did not pop up. Investigations and lawsuits are all over Toyota, like a cheep suit.

As far as the CHP officer killed in his Lexus, who is to say that he didnt press the button for three seconds?

The Prius's brake problem is a totally different kettle of fish. The Japanese press are saying that here is where real problems could lie for Toyota, where they are in a world-leading postion in computer-controlled hybrids.

Compared to this, the accelerator pedal problems, both the voluntary recalls and the compulsory recalls, are far easier to check and fix, they are saying.

For far too long Toyota have puttings guns to their suppliers heads to reduce costs (AKA increase their profits). Well the chicken has at long last come home to roost folks....Downsizing,price gouging,out-sourcing,insatiable corporate/shareholder greed, short term planning = Higher risk, lower quality and a really happy bunch of delirious lawyers

These problems will be fixed much more quickly if the inept American government stays out of the picture.

"In Washington, U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood startled the public with a comment, which he later retracted, that Americans should park their recalled Toyotas unless driving to dealers for accelerator repairs."

The above statement is the act of a buffoon. The current administration is replete with buffoons. For example, our Treasury Secretary, Timothy Geithner, managed to not pay his taxes.

Remember also that GM is being run by the US government and definitely benefits by the bad news for Toyota.

Again, big US government should stay out and let Toyota fix the problems.

"As far as the CHP officer killed in his Lexus, who is to say that he didnt press the button for three seconds?"

Oh, dear god, quest. Who's to say he did?!

Your desperation to make this sound like a conspiracy is astounding.

If anyone is interested in the recent "surge" of complaints about the Prius, you can view them in their raw state here: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/complaints/index.cfm

Some comedy gold on that site.

Some comedy gold on that site.

So what is the funny part about this?

I find it downright astounding that they would screw up such a basic system. Braking systems have been in use for a hundred years and are among the simplest systems in an autumobile. Simple hydraulics. And...not to mention that one's life depends entirely on them while driving.

i hv to point out toyota is more reliable than german car makers though i am fm china.most of ppl in china like japanese cars.

I trust Toyota more than NHTSA, which is more interested in getting more fundings from the US Federal Government.

In order for NHTSA to stay relevant, while wanting to show off their power, they have to forge big cases every now and then. This time, their scams had fallen upon Toyota.

Here's an interesting article, if anyone cares to read it.

Sadly the author of this report lacks technological understanding. Especially the section about the brakes is completely flaw.

The "redundant system" is a separation of the left front / right rear brake and vice versa. Hence if one circuit fails the car can be stopped without spinning out of control, but at a far longer distance than normal.

The statement that the braking system out-powers the engine is incorrect. Typical car brakes are designed to deliver in average 30 - 50% of the engines max. torque. Plus the report completely fails to address the issue of loss of brake power support if the gas throttle is full open and brakes pressed more than three times due to lack of low pressure that powers the system, as seen in the accidents of Lexus vehicles.

It can help to read some modern books on Automobile technology, before writing a "news report".

In order for NHTSA to stay relevant [..] they have to forge big cases every now and then.

And for Toyota to stay in business they have to do everything to avoid staining their quality reputation. Remember the Japanese saying "A lie is not a lie, if it is for the sake of the company". Better not to trust any of them.

i hv to point out toyota is more reliable than german car makers

Bold statement.

I'm driving an Alphard here in Japan... should I be worried? I guess we are safe over here... err, aren't we?

Anyone else driving a Toyota in Japan?

Has anyone seen the president of Toyota? All the announcements are done by his subordinates. Only as he was "caught" in Davos Mr. Toyoda gave a short apology and the went into hiding again.

Any idea where he is and why is not managing this crisis in public?

Judaisers said:

In order for NHTSA to stay relevant, while wanting to show off their power, they have to forge big cases every now and then. This time, their scams had fallen upon Toyota.

So the problems that are surfacing in products manufactured by Toyota are the result of a forged defect scam by the United States' NHTSA?!

I'm surprised you crawled out of your defense bunker long enough to post here! You should hurry back into your shelter because now the government KNOWS you're "on" to them and KNOWS where you are now and will spend billions of dollars just to hunt you down and silence you! (rolleyes)

Daily show is also asking where Mr. Toyota is hiding and then shows him getting into an Audi after he was caught by journalists in Davos.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-february-2-2010/toyotathon-of-death

I hope you go to hell, because you are super-imposing America and Jewish ideas wrongfully upon Japan, thereby doing false-accusations.

Can you post a link, to back up your facts? Sounds interesting!! Its not that i`m doubting you, but a few others might not be so trusting, and like you said, you wouldn't want to go to hell for super-imposing America and Jewish ideas wrongfully upon Japan, because without proof, wouldnt you be guilty, and thereby doing false-accusations. Have you been talking to Osama? Reading your Koran? Your name is judaisers is that like The Jew Hunter? In any event, You should get together and compare notes, maybe the Jews are tricking you even now, and they have an even bigger plan for super-imposing America and Jewish ideas wrongfully upon Japan, in the future. You can be the hero that saves Japan, like a Manga or Gundum.

You gotta love the mental state of these lunatics, their egos are gone, self esteem, and image in tatters. Its a horror show. Pure Comedy gold. Judea-Christian Japanaprobes conspiracy theorists

Short Toyota... They are flying JAL.

Imacat- "I'm driving an Alphard here in Japan... should I be worried? I guess we are safe over here... err, aren't we?"

FYI, this information just came off the AP news wire an hour ago. Here are some of the highlights;

-Toyota acknowledged that it has begun fixing problems with the brakes in its prized Prius, but remains undecided about a recall

-Toyota Motor Corp., already reeling from massive global recalls involving faulty gas pedals in other cars and trucks, said Thursday that Prius models sold since late last month, including those shipped overseas, had the problem with the antilock brake system corrected.

-But that still leaves the potential flaw in Priuses sold in Japan and overseas before late January.

-Japan's transport minister urged Toyota to consider a recall of the Prius and said he is ordering an investigation into the brake problem

-Toyota executive Hiroyuki Yokoyama said the company hasn't yet decided if a recall is necessary.

-The U.S. Transportation Department said Thursday it has opened an investigation into brake problems in the 2010 model year Prius.

-The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration told The Associated Press it has received 124 reports from consumers, including four reports of crashes.

-Toyota acknowledged the brake problem while reporting a $1.7 billion profit for its October-December quarter.

-The remodeled gas-electric Prius hybrid, which went on sale in the U.S. and Japan in May 2009. Complaints about braking problems in the Prius have been reported in the U.S. and Japan, combining to some 180, and come amid a recall of nearly 4.5 million vehicles for faulty gas pedals.

-The flaw, which requires a software programming change to fix, makes the brakes momentarily unresponsive.

-the time lag for brakes kicking in felt by drivers stem from the two systems in a gas-electric hybrid — the gas-engine and the electric motor.

-The brakes start to work if the driver keeps pushing the pedal, but the driver may momentarily feel they aren't working.

@Branded Many thanks. I'll keep my eye on the news coming out in Japan.

I've quite liked the Alphard so far but if it suddenly starts propelling me down the Tomei Expressway with no brakes I think my feelings might change...

Anyone else driving a Toyota in Japan?

Ive driven a Toyota for the past 5 years in Japan, and love it. Is not one of the death trap coverup ones though.

@guest

Which Toyota r u driving? I've always quite fancied the Mark 2 (I think it's a Mark X now) but ended up with the Alphard... damn!

"Ive driven a Toyota for the past 5 years in Japan"

Most everybody does- that's about all that's sold there. You outta see the look on my Japanese wife's face when we pull into an American shopping center- cars from all over the world sporting different brands. She has actually commented on this numerous times- "look a volkswagon, a chevrolet, a Kia, a "Beema" ! Stay safe quest !

Fadamor at 12:55 AM JST - 5th February Judaisers said:

In order for NHTSA to stay relevant, while wanting to show off their >>power, they have to forge big cases every now and then. This time, their >>scams had fallen upon Toyota. So the problems that are surfacing in products manufactured by Toyota are >the result of a forged defect scam by the United States' NHTSA?! I'm surprised you crawled out of your defense bunker long enough to post >here! You should hurry back into your shelter because now the government >KNOWS you're "on" to them and KNOWS where you are now and will spend >billions of dollars just to hunt you down and silence you! (rolleyes)

That's how it works in America: forge crisis and sell solutions. --> This makes up 80% of American economy. This is why the American economy is unsustainable.

Likewise, American military industrial complex cannot create revenues, unless the US government constantly create more crises and wars.

As for NHTSA, these days, cars (whether American or Japanese) are so good that they have flies in their offices. With the US government in deficit, it was very likely that this beureu was first one to be gotten rid of. So they have to create crises to say it is needed in the US government.

Everyone who works for the federal government knows this scam. Because these days, they are so afraid that their department would be eliminated for saving money.

ROFL. The National Highway Transportation Safety Administration deals with a lot more than just cars. They also deal with trucks, the roads, the bridges, and all the safety-related devices that go along with those items. They don't have to make things up to justify their presence. Your "NHTSA business model" fails epically for one main reason... Rulings by the NHTSA generate negligable support (if any at all) for the U.S. economy. If anything, they usually HURT the economy because of the hit that affected companies take in the stock market.

Toyota's problems were caused by Toyota - not some regulatory agency in a foreign country.

Wow..and just a few days ago I thought this problem was superficial pertaining to an oversized accelerator pedal and floor mat. If it is electronically connected, I'd be interested in the source of these electronic parts. I hope it wasn't China. U.S. automotive companies better be on the up and up checking their systems as well and not be complacent about these problems either.

Branded at 01:33 AM JST - 5th February. FYI, this information just came off the AP news wire an hour ago. Here are some of the highlights;

Everybody knows this this already about Toyota's brake problem. Here again, the samples you provided are speculation. Branded, don't you have any opinion on your own rather than copying th AP wire news and talking in circles?

"Everybody knows this this already about Toyota's brake problem. Here again, the samples you provided are speculation."

Hardly "speculation", the words are from the mouths of Toyota's executives. The revelations are stunning to say the least. I mean, they knew about the design flaws last year during the "cash for clunkers" program- yet decided to keep it a secret, then make the repairs- all while failing to address the thousands of defective cars sold and currently on the streets of America and Japan ! This could be the death nail- ummm, my opinion of course.

Branded at 03:37 AM JST - 5th February

Read clearly, do you understand English? This is still under "investigation" which means speculation and not factual yet. "Japan's transport minister urged Toyota to consider a recall of the Prius and said he is ordering an investigation into the brake problem -Toyota executive Hiroyuki Yokoyama said the company hasn't yet decided if a recall is necessary. -The U.S. Transportation Department said Thursday it has opened an investigation into brake problems in the 2010 model year Prius.

There is a irresponsible behavior from Transportation Secretary LaHood when he told a congressional panel Wednesday morning Toyota customers should not drive the cars until they get gas pedals fixed. Later in the day, he retracted that stance from his earlier comments. Why would he suddenly retract this statement when he knew full well what he said. This was intentional statement to damage Toyota and the damage was already done. This is a top govenment official making this irresponsible comment to create choas in the public. Some of the Camry owners, was frightened after seeing the alert flash across the screen this on news media that urged Toyota owners not to drive their vehicles.

Sfjp330- This is absolutely correct-

"Japan's transport minister urged Toyota to consider a recall of the Prius and said he is ordering an investigation into the brake problem"

Too bad you decided to gloss over this first though- which is not "speculation" but fact !

"Toyota acknowledged that it has begun fixing problems with the brakes in its prized Prius"

Now, to emphasize my point,

"The revelations are stunning to say the least. I mean, they knew about the design flaws last year during the "cash for clunkers" program- yet decided to keep it a secret, then make the repairs- all while failing to address the thousands of defective cars sold and currently on the streets of America and Japan" !

"Transportation Secretary LaHood told a congressional panel Wednesday morning Toyota customers should not drive the cars until they get gas pedals fixed."

Seems pretty obvious to me- especially if you are driving one of the clunkers that's been recalled. Why wait for an accident? Seems to me Lahood just did Toyota a huge favor !

Branded: This is absolutely correct-

What is correct? You are misinformed again. Transporation Secretary LaHood "RETRACTED" his statement immediately that afternoon (same day) and this means he takes back the statement. Also means he made a mistake if you are retracting a statement without admission. Read between the lines.

sfjp330- "You are misinformed again."

Huh ?

"Transporation Secretary LaHood "RETRACTED" his statement immediately that afternoon (same day) and this means he takes back the statement. Also means he made a mistake if you are retracting a statement without admission."

Yo dude- My comments are directed at Toyota management and their poor decision to sell defective cars in the US and Japan for months on end taking full advantage of the "cash for clunkers" program in the process. Highly unethical !

"Toyota acknowledged that it has begun fixing problems with the brakes in its prized Prius"

As for Lahoods comments- I don't care what he retracted. In my opinion he did Toyota a huge favor ! No misinformation here- I simply disagree with those who feel his statements were taken out of context. This falls in the cup 1/2 empty or full realm. There are those who see only the negative- I see the positive !

“If it is largely believed to be a rare instance, why would he tell people to stop driving their cars?” asked Waterman, of Burrillville, RI. “It was an irresponsible thing to say.”

Hello Meridyth!!! Cars weigh alot, tons, you know. If it stops braking it could kill someone. Take it in to be fixed. Stop being irresponsible!!!

Any company attempting to introduce vehicles which use less or no gas are going to have to be extremely careful forthings exactly like this as there millions of dollars, PR, and everything else going into attempting to reduce or get rid of anything which may ween us (in the U.S) off of oil. Has been this way for 50+ years when there were already electric cars on the road. For a good, but unsurprising and predictable, look at such antics, see the film 'Who Killed the Electric Car'. The moral rational folks who desire to replace the always profitable oil with cheap, clean, etc...are going to have to fight tooth and nail. One needs look no further than a recent president to see just who and what sorts of folks drink, bathe, and profit from oil 24/7.

For those of you that missed it- probably because Toyota execs have refused to offer the info voluntarily- the total number of Prius cars sold, those with the defective brakes not yet recalled or secretely repaired, is well over 270,000 ! This is pure comedy folks, no really- David Letterman's monolugue was completely dominated by the dangers of driving a Toyota lastnight- I look for his "top ten" list to just be dedicated to Toyota in the next few days. What a farce this has become.