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Toyota ranked one of worst major automakers for emissions efforts

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Well, if we all wanna keep moving there may be entities that help us to that.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

That’s why they are successful. They sell what customers want, not what mind-sick politicians and the new eco religion members want to sell or see in the car stores.

2 ( +20 / -18 )

I don't see many US cars in Tokyo, but when I do, half the time it's a fully electric Tesla. When I see a Toyota, it's normally a gasoline car or a hybrid.

The Japanese giant is also "most vocal in such advocacy,

That makes a normal Japanese company. For example, food makers who raise the alarm on waste reduction, yet insist on triple-wrapping their products in plastic, etc., etc.,

9 ( +13 / -4 )

Not sure what criteria is Greenpeace using for labeling Toyota "F minus minus", but Toyota makes the most successful hybrid car (Prius), they started making fully electric cars, and they pioneered the hydrogen car (Mirai). Criticizing is easy, innovation is not

10 ( +17 / -7 )

What the heck does Greenpeace know about cars? LOL

14 ( +19 / -5 )

@JeffLee

The few American cars I have seen here are huge and elevated imported 4WD Ford or similar, larger than the road lane itself , certainly not eco friendly.

And a few Cadillac.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Not sure what criteria is Greenpeace using

Kudos for Prius and Mirai, yes, but these worthy efforts are reduced to virtue signalling against the huge volumes of Tundras, Landcruisers and Lexus high margin vehicles it markets.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

Ever heard of Tier 4 engines? What a joke they are. DEF often comes in plastic non-recyclable containers that need to be put in the ground somewhere or burned and Tier 4 engines, wait for it, actually use more fuel.

Sure particulates from tractors in Montana are reduced but these kinds of "solutions" brought to you by these out-to-lunch envriros cause more problems than they solve.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Oh, well. I'll make sure to consult with Greenpeace when I buy my next car.

11 ( +13 / -2 )

Kudos for Prius and Mirai, yes, but these worthy efforts are reduced to virtue signalling against the huge volumes of Tundras, Landcruisers and Lexus high margin vehicles it markets.

A more suitable name for the Mirai is Mirage as it will only offer the illusion of being green when the hydrogen it runs on can only be extracted from burning fossil fuels(like coal).

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

Electric cars are only slightly better than hybrids though, aren't they. In Japan at least, the electricity is coming from coal or natural gas.

Toyota have definitely been anti-EV, but so is society as a whole. Even a low penetration of EV, say 10%, would put massive strain on existing charging infrastructure. Fast chargers are 50kW each(!), so 10 spaces in a supermarket carpark will need the same juice and wiring as a large subdivision of houses.

Even in the USA, 60% of car journeys are under 6 miles/10km. Twenty-five minutes at most on a bicycle, with a motor if you want to insist there are big hills in there. The current model of doing this in a massive metal box is the problem, not what is powering the metal box.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Kudos for Prius and Mirai, yes, but these worthy efforts are reduced to virtue signalling against the huge volumes of Tundras, Landcruisers and Lexus high margin vehicles it markets.

Almost every late-model Lexus and Toyota I see on the road in my part of Japan is Hybrid. (That goes for Nissan and Honda, too.) So, they do a decent job of pushing that technology. And, in the US, at least in California, the Prius is easily their biggest selling model.

But, as the article points out, hybrid technology only reduces the carbon footprint by roughly 30%. And, Toyota seems stuck on pushing that as their main alternative to full ICE vehicles.

They also push fuel cell technology, which has zero emissions. But, it still leaves us at the mercy of the big oil companies to sell us the hydrogen, which one would assume is a big reason they are pushing it.

They are finally releasing a BEV model in early 2022. Its success or lack thereof will probably go a long way in shaping their future EV policy.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Even in the USA, 60% of car journeys are under 6 miles/10km. Twenty-five minutes at most on a bicycle, with a motor if you want to insist there are big hills in there. The current model of doing this in a massive metal box is the problem, not what is powering the metal box.

When a paradigm shift is necessary, a focus on hybrid cars, electric cars, hydrogen, etc as solutions only serves to reinforce the present paradigm.

Governments need to disincentivize car travel and incentivize more public and active transport systems.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Not sure what criteria is Greenpeace using for labeling Toyota "F minus minus", but Toyota makes the most successful hybrid car (Prius), they started making fully electric cars, and they pioneered the hydrogen car (Mirai). Criticizing is easy, innovation is not

The most heavily weighted criteria is plans to phase out ICE engine vehicles, which Toyota lags way behind most other automakers in (only Ford was ranked lower in this category). Basically Toyota gets slammed because it hardly sells any zero emissions vehicles now, and its one of the few makers that has no established plans to phase out ICE vehicles. GM, which scored highest, in contrast already sells quite a few such vehicles and has established its phase out plan.

Its true that Toyota was a leader in developing hybrids, but that was a big deal like 15-20 years ago, its since fallen way behind.

The full report is here if you want the details.

https://www.greenpeace.org/static/planet4-eastasia-stateless/2021/11/47de8bb4-gpea_auto_environmental_guide_2021.pdf

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Hybrids are great, and they make a big difference, but people can still drive them in ways that result in pretty heavy gasoline consumption: accelerating too fast from a stop, changing speeds often, stopping suddenly, etc. A hybrid car driven like that in an urban environment doesn't perform so much better than most conventional cars, regarding fuel efficiency. And indeed, hybrid technology really is not an effective alternative to internal combustion engines - they rely on them, after all. (But they might be a great stepping stone toward truly "clean" cars - hopefully.)

0 ( +3 / -3 )

It appears that Greenpeace aren't the only experts.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

@Tom San

What the heck does Greenpeace know about cars? LOL

Greenpeace knows that UK will ban sale of all new ICE vehicles including Hybrid/PHEV from 2030, Germany 2035, and the US will mandate half of all new vehicle sale to be zero-emission by 2030.

That's only 9 years away. In other word, Toyota would be able to sell only the same number of ICE vehicles as it sells EVs in the US by 2030. So if Toyota can't sell EVs, then it can't sell ICE vehicles in the US and will have to leave the market.

We are witnessing the turning point in the history of Japanese automobile industry becoming irrelevant, following the footsteps of Japan's electronics and semiconductor industries.

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

It is simple: the Japanese manufacturers threw their weight behind hybrid technology.

I might add that it is quite remarkable that governments cannot do anything about COVID, but they can lower the global temperature by one degree centigrade simply by raising our taxes.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

With all the automotive "authorities" here, who needs Greenpeace?

Anyone got any recommendations as to my next set of wheels?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

With all the automotive "authorities" here, who needs Greenpeace?

I haven't seen anybody commenting here claiming to be an authority on cars.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Meh. Toyota are like most companies in Japan and abroad that waffle on about their green credentials, real or imagined. Probably in order to boost their chances at securing lucrative fleet deals with equally disingenuous governments and corporations.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

We are witnessing the turning point in the history of Japanese automobile industry becoming irrelevant, following the footsteps of Japan's electronics and semiconductor industries.

Nissan have the second best selling electric car of all time. They've sold half a million of them. Their sales are about the same as BMW, Renault, and VW, also top ten BEV manufacturers, added together. Tesla aside, the other biggest players are Chinese.

Honda and Toyota bet on hybrids and hydrogen. This looks like a bad bet, but the game is still in progress. Get hydrogen to work as renewables storage and the tables could turn.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Nissan have the second best selling electric car of all time. They've sold half a million of them. Their sales are about the same as BMW, Renault, and VW, also top ten BEV manufacturers, added together. Tesla aside, the other biggest players are Chinese.

This is true, but its worth noting that Renault is the controlling shareholder of Nissan which makes it quite a bit different from other Japanese makers.

Honda and Toyota bet on hybrids and hydrogen. This looks like a bad bet, but the game is still in progress. Get hydrogen to work as renewables storage and the tables could turn.

Could be, but its looking like the rest of the world is moving towards electric rather than hydrogen and once they've got that infrastructure deployed in Europe and North America I don't see how hydrogen will be able to compete even if it ends up being a better technology (which it might not be).

To me it looks a lot like the Beta vs VHS battle in the early 80s. Beta was technically superior, but once everyone started buying VHS VCRs it didn't have a chance to compete.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Toyota, be "best" at whatever you do!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Another GR Supra or maybe the new 86???

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

The campaign group gave Toyota and US-European firm Stellantis "F minus minus" grades for decarbonization efforts including phasing out engines that burn planet-warming fossil fuels in favor of electric vehicles.

That has got to sting.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Or the 4WD GR Yaris RZ with the turbocharged 1.6 liter (G16E-GTS), in-line 3 and 6-speed stick shift?

Not shabby at 272ps and 370Nm of torque.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

@Samit Basu

Aren't you the same guy who said that Toyota won't release or doesn't have the ability to release a BEV until 2100

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Like all other industries that Japan led and failed, the car manufacturing industry seems to be heading that way as well.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

rainyday

The main problem with batteries is that they look unlikely to replace diesel in big vehicles, diesel is more energy dense than gasoline, and fuel oil in ships. Hydrogen is more suited to those applications, and that's how hydrogen infrastructure could roll out and catch up. The other big factor is the one I mentioned, using hydrogen to soak up excess renewable energy for use when the sun isn't shining. We're still early in the game of moving away from fossil fuels, and nothing decisive has happened yet. Better batteries could make BEV much better too of course.

For journeys under 5km, energy use can be drastically curtailed with pedaled and electric bicycles. Burning 2 litres of gasoline, about 16kWh of energy, to do that in each way (10km total) in a Land Cruiser carrying someone who is probably overweight is madness.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Toyota should change if they want to have world markets.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Don't forget to purchase your Greenpeace bumper sticker that says " simplify "

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Governments need to disincentivize car travel and incentivize more public and active transport systems.

Oh really? Why do governments "need" to do this? What's wrong with people having nice things that they want. Driving in a car is far more comfortable, and offers more privacy, than taking transit. Transit is also fine, and works well for some people. But saying "the government needs to intervene" is such an unreasonable attitude. What we actually need is for the government to back the hell off, and stop trying to control every aspect of our lives. It's starting to get quite dehumanizing, frankly.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Like all other industries that Japan led and failed, the car manufacturing industry seems to be heading that way as well.

Japan doesn't seem to do very well in "disruptive innovation". They're much better at "sustaining innovation", i.e. taking a good idea and incrementally improving upon and optimizing it. The problem is that lately there's been so much disruptive innovation coming out of the US in particular, that entire industries are being transformed. This is not really good for Japan. The silver lining is that other Asian countries aren't much better at spearheading disruptive innovation, and have only been out-competing Japan in terms of offering cheaper labour - but the gap is closing.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@Tom Doley

Like all other industries that Japan led and failed, the car manufacturing industry seems to be heading that way as well.

Toyota just released it's earnings results. You can cry hard after reading it.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Did greenpeace not take the fact into consideration that more than 26% of vehicles sold by toyota are hybrids?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Article proudly sponsored by Volkswagen.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@John DelaneyToday 02:43 pm JST

Japan doesn't seem to do very well in "disruptive innovation". They're much better at "sustaining innovation", i.e. taking a good idea and incrementally improving upon and optimizing it.

To be fair, Japan also doesn't quite have the oompf for "disruptive innovation". Suppose they were the first to make a workable electric car. No one will praise them. No one will make specialized recharging stands for them outside of Japan. And if they start being popular only in Japan, American carmakers will scream just as they screamed about kei-cars.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Greenpeace ranking? You can ignore the idiotic political activists.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Who cares! I will still buy either Toyota or Honda. They are great cars that haven't given me any trouble. They are reliable, durable, and great value for the money. No complaints.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

@SindhoorGK

Sure, Toyota is making killer profits now, but what about the next 30 years?

And when is the revolutionary solid state battery EV going to come out, as Toyota promised years ago?

Or is Toyota going to wait for another ten or more years to develope their batteries and hydrogen tech while other automakers like Tesla and Volkswagen continue to eat up market share with EV's ?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

In the UK I can charge my EV while I do my shopping-in Japan?

There’s the problem…

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Kurisupisu, I don't know where you live in Japan, but at least in Tokyo many shopping centers have EV charging stations in their parking lot

0 ( +2 / -2 )

For a long time the Toyota Prius line of vehicles put Toyota at the head of the pack for reducing carbon emissions, but they have sitting on their laurels, and not done enough to switch over to EVs. Doesn't make a lot of sense, given the ease with which they could increase the battery size in the Prius line.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

https://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-maps/daviz/cars-co2-emissions-trends-by-manufacturer-3#tab-chart_1

Toyota is the lowest compare to all the manufacturers, Greenpeace lied, as usual.

My Corolla hybrid has a tank of 43 liter, it goes for 1000km before refill. None of European cars or any other gasoline-based cars for that matter can match this mileage.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Greenpeace? They're still around?

Are they still protecting whales?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

But can you believe VW's emissions?

Dieselgate: https://fortune.com/2018/02/06/volkswagen-vw-emissions-scandal-penalties/

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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