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© KYODO10% of young people in Japan have experienced being groped: survey
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virusrex
That makes no sense at all, first because the statistic in no way demonstrate the groping is being done (in any significant degree) by women, second, because making this clear do not constitute blaming the victims at all, you seem to have a terribly bad understanding of what this mean. The criminals and victims are not the same group of men, so it makes no sense to pretend any victim is being blamed for being groped. This would make as much sense as saying the same for female victims of groping just because they are human the same as the gropers.
Yohan
True! I have never seen any statistic, which is claiming otherwise, for example, safest countries in the world, safest cities worldwide, safest countries/cities worldwide for tourists, prison population worldwide, etc.
Living in Japan - in Tokyo and moved to the Kansai area after my retirement - since more than 40 years nobody of my Japanese family has anything negative to report about safety. You can go out day and night, nothing to worry about it.
Of course there is no country which is totally crime-free, but it can be said that Japan - despite 125 million people living in a rather small country and its large cities are crowded - is a crime-low nation. Outsiders are rarely attacked, most crimes take place within family members or co-workers, among people who know each other.
About this groper-survey it is not mentioned how this 10 % should be understood. If nationwide, likely 10 percent is correct. I am living now outside of the large Japanese cities, there are no trains and there are only few public buses a day used mainly by the elderly, which are never crowded. Most people living around are elderly couples, some young men continue farming, but hardly any young woman, some schools closed down already as there are no children and most people living around us are driving their own small kei-car.
Some comments here are written like if Japan is full with criminals everywhere you go, but this is clearly not the case.
zibala
To review, from the article:
3.6 percent of men had been groped in the past.
So to, you, this statistic:
Blaming the victim now. How conventional!
virusrex
Something that is still completely unrelated to the text you quote. If anything the statistic would indicate how this segment of the problem is caused also by men.
ian
Would be interesting to know how many have been prosecuted for groping
zibala
and 3.6 percent of men had been groped in the past
Interesting statistic.
It would also be interesting to see how many women have been prosecuted for groping men.
ian
The online poll by the Cabinet Office targeting individuals aged 16 and 29
ian
Poll in this article by cabinet office also
ian
Anyone know of a more authoritative survey than this one?
girl_in_tokyo
falseflagsteveToday 05:42 am JST
Yes we do. There is a phenomena where salarymen seek out women to purposefully shoulder-check and/or push/shove them to the ground because they think women won't/can't fight back. I have witnessed women being thrown to the ground and hurt.
Then there are the touts who follow women grabbing their arm and trying to pull them into bars or clubs, and solicit women for work in the sex business. They often get upset/angry/violent when women say no and use womens' fear of male violence to bully them into saying yes.
My friend and I had to step in to help a girl who was being followed by three guys in Shibuya. One of the guys wanted to fight us when we intervened, and it was lucky that his friends stopped him.
Besides that, why are you even comparing apples and oranges? Men getting into drunken arguments with one another is no way similar to women being violently sexually assaulted or physically attacked by men.
Three or four times in 23 years. Interesting.
I can't even count the number of times I've been grabbed, groped, followed, verbally harassed or men just being mean and insulting to me because they have an inherent need to make women feel afraid.
"Don't go on about it" - why should I stay silent? This sounds like you have a vested interest in keeping women quiet so that you can continue to blithely ignore what we go through.
Such comparisons are completley invalid - we don't live in "most nations"; we live in Tokyo. Again, it sounds to me like you just want women in Japan to stay silent about their experiences so that you don't have to hear it or care.
You don't see much to complain about because you encourage women to shut up and not talk about the things that happen to them. You don't see women's issues as important or worthy of discussion. Thus:
Of course your position will stay the same, because you don't give a damn about women.
I'm also not replying to change your mind. I'm replying because you make it very very easy to show people exactly how men like you think, and how little they really care about and how easily they dismiss violence against women as unimportant.
And believe me - the women you meet also see that, so you can fully expect them to see you as a potential threat. I will bet you anything that among your friend group the women see you as "that guy" - the one they warn other the women about.
eug145
I assume that this was a nationwide survey, whereas the majority of commentators live in the center of metropolitan areas with crowded public transport systems. This would be like comparing the knife crime statistics in the rough areas of Chicago with the numbers for the whole of the USA. Remember, Japan is much bigger and more varied than just Tokyo...
virusrex
Yes that is an obvious assumption, this becomes clear the moment you could not even address the example given that proves the assumption. Not having an argument means you recognize the criticism is correct.
To a degree that would make it the default situation? no, not by far. That would be wrong.
"It is worse in other places" is not an argument against criticism that this could be solved and that this has been proved so in other places.
falseflagsteve
Girl
Ive had drunk twats try and start fights with me here, women don’t get that BS. Granted not often but 3 or 4 times I’ve had that in 23 years. Don’t go on about it, you get nutters in life who do bad things to men and women. Japan is safe in fact very safe compared to most nations.
women and men here are in a very privileged place compared to most worldwide, can’t see much to complain about myself.
Not rethinking my post, position stays the same.
girl_in_tokyo
falseflagsteveJuly 15 11:22 pm JST
Every woman I know has experienced some kind of sexual assault in Japan, from stalking to groping to rape. And some have experienced physical assault, e.g., I was shoved by a Japanese man on the train platform, and another girl I know was punched in the face.
According to Japanese sex crimes prosecutors and womens' advocacy groups, only 4% of rapes are even reported, and from this article it's pretty clear that train groping is also extremely under reported.
What you're doing here is minimizing the problem and ignoring the fact that Japan has extreme gender power imbalance that contribute to the violence against women.
Re-think your post.
falseflagsteve
Japan is a safe country for men and women, it’s false to say otherwise.
ian
What ages constitute young people?
kaimycahl
@WasabiWit There is no need for comparing the US to Japan when it comes to perverted acts like this. I have personally seen for myself where a guy was molesting a women and she asked him to stop and a group of men rushed to her safety, they took the guy to the back of the bus and pull the emergency door open and threw him off the bus!!! No need to call the police its not tolerated period!
Why bother even comparing then? Why does everything in Japan have to be compared with the US? Very different countries.
What about other parts of Asia or Europe where public transport is more common?
tora
From the article:
Um, no lady(assuming it's a lady) due to the way the system is set up, I definitely won't be getting involved since will utterly ruin my day and don't want to get involved with the police and have to spend hours at the police station and to have to take my gaijin card out and explain my visa status etc, and to get into trouble for possible assault against the perpetuator as it is all twisted against me.
How about if victims actually spoke up and shouted some Japanese expletives and hit the perpetuator where it hurts the most? If they all did this, it would solve most of the problem almost overnight.
gcFd1
Nobody is assuming that.
But facts do support that women do grope men.
buchailldana
It's a really seedy crime.
Have they ever done a study on the age, financial status, of the gropers.
Apart from the cheap thrill why do they do or even feel enabled to do it.
owzer
None. girlintokyo said she didn't know a single woman who... nevermind. It's never as funny when you have to explain it.
Derek Grebe
This is my #MeToo moment. Many years ago when I was younger and prettier than I am today, a dirty old sod decided that, given the crowded nature of the Chiyoda Line train we were sharing, he should exercise his curiosity about the package a six-foot Englishman was toting.
I will never know if I measured up to his expectations, but I am pretty sure he won’t be trying that kind of exploratory research again.
JDoe
@jennie Understood, tho I dont necessarily agree.
There is little violent crime here... 100% true... however violent crimes that do occur often involve women and/or children. Dont have stats to back that up but at the moment, but t is my general feeling & observation from being here a couple plus decades.
Also 100% true women typically do not report crimes against them.
I always tell women the FIRST thing they need to do is call or go to the police station and make a report, even if/when the officer isn't interested to do making one.
Jennie
@ Jdoe
Apologies for the misunderstanding, when I used the word safety, I was literally referring to the physical safety rather than other social challenges and discrepancies women face in Japan. I wholeheartedly understand your point of view and apologize if my comment sounded cynical in any way. I actually agree with you on gender gap here, even going back to the article whenever there’s an issue brought up, women are more likely to be silent instead of raising awareness.
Again, my comment was solely on the physical well- being and protection which may indeed is a big issue at hand here, but I think I was broadly comparing to other regions where it’s much more dire and a matter of life and death, but obviously didn’t mean to undermine the issue at hand.
JDoe
@Jennie In general I love living & being in Japan. I have a daughter (and son) born & raised here. People here for a short time 'tourists' or for a handful of years should be careful not to glaze over the facts just because 'it hasnt happened to me' or 'I luv the culture'. Im not saying or assuming that is you... but I see/hear many foreigner stories/comments with that perspective/position.
For me Japan is safe. I wont feel afraid/intimidated anywhere in the country at any time of night/day which I cant say for my birth country.
Unfortunately, for women its another situation entirely and glossing over the facts (esp by women) enables and fuels the fallacy that 'Japan is super SAFE'. Yes, Japan is safer than many 3rd world countries, yes it is by & large safe for men of all ages, ethnicities. Not so much for females of any age or ethnicity.
Japan has the widest gender gap among developed countries, ranking 73rd among 190 economies in a World Bank report released on March 4.
Japanese women enjoy only 72.5 percent of the legal rights and protections that Japanese men do, according to the annual Women, Business and the Law 2024 report published ahead of International Women’s Day on March 8.
Jennie
@Jdoe
If percentage of women being groped is a statistics we’re basing on safety for women, we may have bigger issues at hand…
It’s a start though.
JDoe
Try 2 3 maybe 4 times higher. Japan is not a safe country for women, period.
Yohan
No crime, even if it is extremely rare, is practically negligible - all crimes have to investigated and prosecuted as well. These 5 % are only these cases which make it up to the prosecutor, but the real number of false accusations is much higher. These 2-5% are manipulated data anyway.
https://apnews.com/article/b5c40b513448cfc1269d51d923bb76f7
shogun36
who's groping dudes? nothing worse than a train car full of sweaty, smelly males.
Pukey2
I had two Japanese male colleagues tell me that they were once brushed against or touched inappropriately by women on the trains. I also had one women standing in front me while I was sitting down. She was facing me and swaying back and forth, her assets were getting really close to me. Had the sexes been reversed, a woman sitting down would have felt very uncomfortable. On a train, standing like that, you'd normally sway from left to right, not back and forth. I was about to get up and walk away, but fortunately we arrived at her stop.
owzer
My wife was groped last night so the number might be higher than 10%!
kiyet
This is true of women too - more than 95%, by some accounts, do not report.
This is about 2-5% of all cases reported, which is extremely rare and practically negligible.
Cameras in all train carriages and a campaign that targets women and their fear of speaking out and reporting
Yohan
Men will hardly report such an incident, nobody will believe them.
There are cases known and not only in Japan where women did accuse totally innocent men of sexual assault in trains and sometimes tried to extort money from them.
So far there is no real good solution for this situation, there are some women-only train cars but this is it already. What should railway companies really do? What else can be done?
https://asia.nikkei.com/Editor-s-Picks/Tea-Leaves/In-Japan-it-can-be-hard-to-be-a-man-say-men
Some people ask now for men-only train cars....
WasabiWit
What difference does their marital status make?
The men who assault women on public transport don't just attack random women they have specific targets, e.g. attractive and vulnerable-looking women. So if you don't know any women like that, then you won't have heard about it.
owzer
Yes, yes, but what about married women?
virusrex
Made immediately after a quoted text, which obviously means they are related.
Your position on the other hand is to pretend the person quoted text without any reason, and made a completely unrelated question again for no reason. That is deeply irrational and obviously incorrect.
This is quite simple the moment you could not explain why the question was made in this way since you can not offer any explanation. You had not even the capacity to address the example I give since it demonstrates your position as illogical.
zibala
There was no assumption, only a question. And you misstate the hypothetical. The poster did not ask "why women have not been arrested." Instead, he asked a question bare of assumptions in the below:
Has a woman ever been prosecuted for groping a man in Japan?
WasabiWit
Why bother even comparing then? Why does everything in Japan have to be compared with the US? Very different countries.
What about other parts of Asia or Europe where public transport is more common?
Meiyouwenti
If the same survey was conducted in the US, the percentage of women who answered yes would be much lower since only 0.2 percent of surface passenger traffic in America goes by rail. In Japan, the comparable figure is 30.3 percent.
dido
Same here. All the women I dated in Japan had been sexually assaulted on a train in Japan at least once some more - one girl while I was with her and another who said it happened every day on the way to work.
virusrex
Yes it does, without that assumption there is no meaning in asking why women have not been arrested. If someone commented why not people of a certain ethnicity have been arrested after the quote it is obvious they are assuming that ethnicity was behind the numbers, the same applies here. It should not be that difficult to understand but I guess some people always require explanations.
Because that is being demonstrated, there is no need for prejudice when the same conclusion is being reached by examining the evidence.
Do you have any evidence that contradicts this conclusion? if not then the current one is perfectly adequate.
Banthu
Why automatically assume men are the ones groping girls?
Easy, because of prejudice and sexist beliefs.
zibala
That’s nearly 1,300 men. Has a woman ever been prosecuted for groping a man in Japan?
No assumption, because nothing in the other poster's comment maintains only women, or even women, are groping men.
girl_in_tokyo
spidersensesToday 07:27 am JST
This number is far more likely to be accurate.
But I don't know a single woman who hasn't been groped, either on the train or on the street, in a bar, or somewhere else.
All the women I know have experienced some form of sexual assault.
TokyoResiding
He/she might have been referring to this - 40% not 70% but still higher than 10%. That was only last year.
This is not just young people though.
Over 40% of women, nearly 10% of men in Tokyo have been groping victims: survey - The Mainichi
https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20231226/p2a/00m/0na/004000c
sakurasuki
By who another man? Johnny scandal prove that can happen.
Asiaman7
The link you gave above doesn’t match the information you indicated, but a Tokyo Metropolitan Government survey released in Dec 2023 reported “More than 40% of women and nearly 10% of men in the Japanese capital have been groped in public at least once.”
—
https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20231226/p2a/00m/0na/004000c
dido
Yeah, it's lower than I've seen.
46% of women and 20% of men in this one. Maybe the way they word the questions - that can make a big diffrence to results.
Tokyo, Japan | 5 | Transit Crime and Sexual Violence in Cities | Seiji (taylorfrancis.com)
https://www.taylorfrancis.com/chapters/edit/10.4324/9780429290244-5/tokyo-japan-seiji-shibata
virusrex
Why automatically assume women are the ones groping men?
KazukoHarmony
That’s nearly 1,300 men. Has a woman ever been prosecuted for groping a man in Japan?
spidersenses
Very dubious results.
How come all previous research shows far higher percentages, ranging from 50 - 70%.
E.g.
Mainichi Shimbun (2018) reported that in a Cabinet Office of Japan survey, 70% of women in Japan stated they had experienced groping and molestation while using public transportation.
https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20180330/p2a/00m/0na/005000c
Asiaman7
The second paragraph presents the following information:
*The online poll by the Cabinet Office showed 13.6 percent of women and 3.6 percent of men had been groped in the past.*
Yubaru
Where did you get this number from?
Chabbawanga
36000 is a significant number or respondents, this is pretty horrifying.
JeffLee
Many of the evening commuter trains are stupidly crowded. Last week, a couple of passengers near me were moaning in pain on the Keio out of Shinjuku. The operators need to increase frequency in the evenings, when the waiting times are relatively long.
Samit Basu
10% of young people means 20% of young women?
Since it's mostly the women who are being groped.