crime

2 Americans wanted in Ghosn's escape now in Japanese custody

56 Comments
By ALANNA DURKIN RICHER

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56 Comments

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The Taylors are not going to enjoy their trip to Japan: Omoteinashi...Nashi!

17 ( +18 / -1 )

There'll be endless interrogations until they can convict.

or

There'll be endless interrogations until they give all relevant information that the prosecutors require..

13 ( +14 / -1 )

Man I just CANNOT believe they turned them over when what JAPAN did to Kelly.......this is insane!!!

13 ( +17 / -4 )

And the Brits are still waiting for the boy killer who fled the country under the false pretense of diplomatic immunity. Thank you America for getting your priorities right.

13 ( +14 / -1 )

There'll be endless interrogations until they can convict.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

Kelly got in detention for months and his trial is taking years to finish.

by now is pretty clear that his Japanese counterparts committed the fraud. but Kelly is the only that's actually paying for it.

the Taylors are going to suffer the same.

10 ( +14 / -4 )

I suspect prosecutors are hoping that the Taylors provide information implicating Ghosn's wife Carole or son Anthony in planning and financing the escape. Carlos himself is probably resigned to spending the rest of his days in Lebanon, but it's something else entirely to subject your family to the same fate. If his wife or son can be charged and extradited while traveling overseas, will Ghosn return to Japan to testify in their defence?

Probably right. If you can't get the man, intimidate his family. This tactic was used by the Japanese in occupied territory's in WW2. Once cowards, always cowards.

10 ( +14 / -4 )

I was curious as to what the extradition was and found the Taylors are being extradited for

https://casetext.com/case/in-re-extradition-of-taylor-1

Article 103  

A person who harbors or enables the escape of another person who has either committed a crime punishable with a fine or greater punishment or has escaped from confinement shall be punished by imprisonment with work for not more than 2 years or a fine of not more than 200,000 yen.

http://www.japaneselawtranslation.go.jp/law/detail_main?re=02&ia=03&vm=02&id=1960

Treaty on extradition (with schedule and exchange of notes). Signed at Tokyo on 3 March 1978

The requesting Party shall not, except in any of the following circumstances, detain, prosecute, try nor punish a person surrendered under this Treaty for an offense other than that for which extradition has been granted 

https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/volume%201203/volume-1203-I-19228-English.pdf

After checking the "following circumstances" they do not seem to apply in this case.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

Let's hope Ghosn fat paycheck was enough to support their families.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

Welcome to Japanese justice, It will be served !!..

Yes, Japanese “justice” will be served. Unfortunately, the Japanese “justice” system is concerned with convictions and not actual justice. Repugnant.

8 ( +12 / -4 )

Wow, looking at some of these posts it's like the North Korean justice system is better than Japan's. Like in Japan they force you to talk by pulling out fingernails and drilling into your kneecaps. And the US system is complicit in the torture of these fine people

Japan's justice system is full of documented physical and mental torture cases.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

@Michael MachidaToday  08:14 am JST

Clue me in. Does America have an extradition treaty with Japan?

really... the proof is in the pudding.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Tremendously sad news. Japan's highly flawed and racist justice system will ensure they are not given a just or civilised trial.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Michael Taylor, a............................ has never denied the allegations.

Under 人質司法, this is seen as the person is guilty and has done whatever the prosecutors came up with. I'd guess they will plead not guilty. Also, the suspect does not have the right to see an attorney before trial or have one present during interrogation sessions. Despite having the right to remain silent, you must be present at the interrogation. And the guys inside the interrogation room will just put a pressure on them. Ridiculous.

Yeah, it's 2021 here in Japan..

6 ( +7 / -1 )

I hear some Ghosnbeliever's sobbings in the distance..I love Japan !!..

why would Ghosn supporters be sobbing, Ghosn outsmarted J justice and is now out of reach to them.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Carlos himself is probably resigned to spending the rest of his days in Lebanon,

well he is a Lebanese citizen and with his money can live very comfortably in Lebanon with his wife

5 ( +7 / -2 )

I expected more from a great democracy like the US,if it was the other way around I seriously doubt that Japan would give one of it's citizen despite the crime.

These two guys will face inhuman interrogations and deprivation of the human dignity by a country which still doesn't fully comprehend the real meaning of democracy and human rights,which were imposed by the winner.

As a citizen of the EU I thank the providence that we didn't sign any kind of extradition with a country that still psychologically torture suspects.

Let us hope that with the world watching at this trial they might at least pretend to be more just.

After all we do all know that for them saving face is everything.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Ghosh help them. Just admit and sign whatever is put on the table and get leniency.

4 ( +9 / -5 )

The article does not state the crime they are being charged with.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

They are screwed...

4 ( +4 / -0 )

It certainly looks like they did it, but is this really enough to be sure? We just don’t have all the details.

Correct.

A presumption of innocence does not mean that the allegations are assumed to be wrong. It simply means that the accused cannot be punished prior to conviction.

Almost correct. The allegations are assumed to need to be investigated to determine whether they are incorrect.

You sure have a huge issue with the concepts of justice and innocent until proven guilty.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Your comments ring ‘familiar’ @P. Smith 10:02a JST in answer to 8:04a

Okay. Would you mind adhering to the posting conventions the rest of us use? Your messages aren’t easy to follow.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Vanity Fair?? Really??

Probably trying to get publicity for a future contract and should have just kept his mouth shut.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

I thought the US never allows it's citizens to be prosecuted out of US.

Many instances the US fights "tooth and nail" to have it's citizens tried at "home", what happened to these two being handed over to another territory?

Are their rights guaranteed?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Japanese prosecutors itching to take revenge is just pathetic. I'll bet they will be detained for hundreds of days for the irrational fear of incompetent Prosecutors of "destroying evidence". It's sad to be a lawyer in Japan. People look at them like a joke.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Let's hope Ghosn fat paycheck was enough to support their families.

thats their mistake , they should of asked for 3 times as much then retired to a country with no extradition treaty with Japan, Ghosn seems to outsmarted everybody

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Classic subterfuge.. Under Biden they were handed over...Trump in all probability would have blocked.

Classic gross mischaracterization of a staged fact. If Trump had been willing to block the extraditions, his State Department would not have agreed to extradite these two.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Another classic subterfuge..there is big difference between State Department initially agreeing to something and than later making amendments, the president can anyway, always block any such extradition.

Okay; however, none of this changes the facts that neither Trump or his State Department tried to block the extraditions. No amount of your mental contortions will change this.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Clue me in. Does America have an extradition treaty with Japan?

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Your comments ring ‘familiar’ @P. Smith 10:02a JST in answer to 8:04a.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I had no idea. Well, I have been schooled.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Is it always necessary for media to publish the names of people before they have been found guilty? These are all very thin justifications for revealing the name of someone who hasn’t been adjudicated guilty yet.

He already went public with it himself (and presumably was paid for it) -

[ Michael Taylor, a U.S. Army Special Forces veteran and private security specialist who in the past was hired by parents to rescue abducted children, has never denied the allegations.

He gave an interview to Vanity Fair magazine for a story last year in which he described the mission in detail. When asked why he did it, he responded with the motto of the Special Forces: “De oppresso liber” or “to liberate the oppressed,” the magazine reported. ]

[ How Carlos Ghosn Escaped Japan, According to ... - Vanity Fair

www.vanityfair.com › news › 2020/07 › how-carlos-gh...

Jul 23, 2020 — Ex-Green Beret Michael Taylor tells the whole story of helping the former Nissan and Renault exec flee house arrest in Japan. ]

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Wow, looking at some of these posts it's like the North Korean justice system is better than Japan's. Like in Japan they force you to talk by pulling out fingernails and drilling into your kneecaps. And the US system is complicit in the torture of these fine people.

Hyperbole much?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Classic subterfuge.. Under Biden they were handed over...Trump in all probability would have blocked.

There is a difference between the two. One follows the law (hint: Biden), and one doesn't.

At the end, even AG Barr choked on some of crap (hint: subterfuge) T'bone wanted him to swallow.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

i@nToday  03:32 pm JST

Seems many think its ok to do crimes in Japan and those who break the law should not be subjected to its justice system because it's "archaic".

Thats simply stupid, if you dont want to be subject to a country's "archaic" laws and justice system them dont go to there and break the law or dont go there at all.

These two people didnt even do something inadvertent, they deliberately went into Japan to smuggle somebody out.

But if they are wrongfully accused it may be another matter, are they?

So you put yourself in the position of judicator and decided who is stupid or not.

This is not to be for or against a country but for justice and treat humans in a correct way.

So Japan wants to compare itself to the west democracies but seems closer to China in it’s juridical system?

Absolutely wrong is your idea.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

These guys won't crack like the Japanese do when they are interrogated. These guys are not some weak chumps! If you get time search what these guys have done in their life, and you will find they are quite awesome!

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The Japanese legal system will ****them

in the ****.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

‘To liberate the oppressed’ must be an euphemism for being paid a lot of money.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Sign the confession, get 23 years suspended for 25, and get deported and never allowed to return.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Under Trump. the U.S. State Department agreed in October to hand the men over to Japan..

Classic subterfuge.. Under Biden they were handed over...Trump in all probability would have blocked.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Seems many think its ok to do crimes in Japan and those who break the law should not be subjected to its justice system because it's "archaic".

Thats simply stupid, if you dont want to be subject to a country's "archaic" laws and justice system them dont go to there and break the law or dont go there at all.

These two people didnt even do something inadvertent, they deliberately went into Japan to smuggle somebody out.

But if they are wrongfully accused it may be another matter, are they?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

is not clear if they committed a crime as defined in the Japanese law-book

Having committed a crime or not is precisely what they try to establish in court right?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I expected more from a great democracy like the US, if it was the other way around I seriously doubt that Japan would give one of it's citizen despite the crime.

Well it's at times like this that one sees how "democratic" the US is...geopolitical concerns win the day.

Although, as pointed out above, he sold his story to the media last year and admitted to the alleged actions.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@ i@n

Thats simply stupid, if you dont want to be subject to a country's "archaic" laws and justice system them dont go to there and break the law or dont go there at all.

These two people didnt even do something inadvertent, they deliberately went into Japan to smuggle somebody out.

But if they are wrongfully accused it may be another matter, are they?

Well, if you don't want to go to jail, don't break the law. That's true. However, this is all about getting a fair trial. Sure, they have done something. I do not dispute that. I think that nobody does dispute their actions.

However, you are not the judge, are you? It's up to the to give a verdict, declare guilty or not guilty. It's not about the spite of the prosecutors, government's revenge, etc. But in Japan and in this situation, it's only about the revenge of our governent and prosecutors being above the judge. And if under 人質司法, you deny the accusations, you're just being held as already convicted. That is archaic, barbaric.

Having committed a crime or not is precisely what they try to establish in court right?

Bingo! But not here. See just how they were brought here. And how they are/will be held until then.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@i@an

those who break the law should not be subjected to its justice system because it's "archaic".

you get to acknowledge that the Japanese justice is archaic. well done!

But if they are wrongfully accused it may be another matter, are they?

that's the subject of debate.

is not clear if they committed a crime as defined in the Japanese law-book.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

you get to acknowledge that the Japanese justice is archaic. well done

I simply do not know, thats why its in quotation marks

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

I suspect prosecutors are hoping that the Taylors provide information implicating Ghosn's wife Carole or son Anthony in planning and financing the escape. Carlos himself is probably resigned to spending the rest of his days in Lebanon, but it's something else entirely to subject your family to the same fate. If his wife or son can be charged and extradited while traveling overseas, will Ghosn return to Japan to testify in their defence?

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

When they became a part of such a high profile escape, they should have expected the consequences.

Their business is done for, once they are convicted it is doubtful whether they can travel outside of US.

I hope Ghosn paid them enough!!!

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Classic gross mischaracterization of a staged fact. If Trump had been willing to block the extraditions, his State Department would not have agreed to extradite these two

Another classic subterfuge..there is big difference between State Department initially agreeing to something and than later making amendments, the president can anyway, always block any such extradition.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

What i know is that many suspects are killed in other countries before they get to the non-archaic courts

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

So you put yourself in the position of judicator and decided who is stupid or not.

Lol everyone here does

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

You play, you pay.

they didn’t have to get involved in this scheme but chose to and will now pay a dear price. Hard to feel sorry for them.

-5 ( +7 / -12 )

Re: @8:04am -

This is a relevant question @Alongfortheride from ‘Your’ post Mar. 1  7:09a JST: “Is it always necessary for media to publish the names of people before they have been found guilty?”

Yes, @P. Smith Mar. 1  08:28 am JST These are all very thin justifications for revealing the name of someone who hasn’t been adjudicated guilty yet.”, in response to @Mark Mar. 1  8:10a JST regarding the public’s ‘freedom of information’

Debatable? @WilliB from ‘Your’ Mar. 1  12:34p JST post that really looks out of context here: “It certainly looks like he did it, but is this really enough to be sure?”

Seems out of context here @smh ‘Your’ Mar. 1 11:18p JST post: “And, yes, have met some uniform police officers with ‘questionable’ motives on the streets;....”

Agreed, in the context that You authored it @ReynardFox from‘Your’ 2:51 am JST post: “A presumption of innocence does not mean that the allegations are assumed to be wrong. It simply means that the accused cannot be punished prior to conviction.“

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Is it always necessary for media to publish the names of people before they have been found guilty? These are all very thin justifications for revealing the name of someone who hasn’t been adjudicated guilty yet.

It certainly looks like they did it, but is this really enough to be sure? We just don’t have all the details.

And, yes, have met some uniform police officers with ‘questionable’ motives on the streets. 

A presumption of innocence does not mean that the allegations are assumed to be wrong. It simply means that the accused cannot be punished prior to conviction.

-6 ( +7 / -13 )

Wow, looking at some of these posts it's like the North Korean justice system is better than Japan's. Like in Japan they force you to talk by pulling out fingernails and drilling into your kneecaps. And the US system is complicit in the torture of these fine people

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

Excellent news !!..

Welcome to Japanese justice, It will be served !!..

And remember, the big fat smelly fish will fall, sooner or later..

I hear some Ghosnbeliever's sobbings in the distance..

I love Japan !!..

-50 ( +7 / -57 )

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