crime

2 channel leaves 90% of illegal posts online despite police request

29 Comments

Internet bulletin board site 2 channel refused to remove 90% of illegal posts between January and June despite a National Police Agency request to do so.

The monitoring agency working with the police, the Internet Hotline Center (IHC), reported 162 messages of an illegal nature, NTV reported Friday. However, the site operator removed only 16 messages. According to the IHC, most of the illegal messages involved the sale of illegal drugs, as well as porn and a bank account info.

An NPA spokesman was quoted as saying: "There are still too many remaining cases, so we are strongly requesting that the site take action."

The 2 channel site, which was launched in 1999, frequently runs afoul of the law and has had numerous lawsuits filed against it over the years regarding malicious and illegal content.

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29 Comments
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Its a great site. why bother with it.?

-8 ( +0 / -9 )

kiyoshiMukai: it's a site full of right-wing hatred-fuelling racism, lies, and outright bigotry.

And what are the police going to do about it? NOTHING. If it goes afoul of the law, the site should either comply or be forced to shut down, bottom line. This 'request' thing is ridiculous.

6 ( +11 / -5 )

Never heard of it. What's the URL?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Last time I checked a request was not an order.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Justin: "Last time I checked a request was not an order."

Last time I checked police arrested you for breaking the law -- not that they request you stop doing it.

"According to the IHC, most of the illegal messages involved the sale of illegal drugs, porn and bank account info."

ILLEGAL messages. ILLEGAL actions. There should be ZERO requests, and instead a lot of arrests. But hey, why should the police do their jobs?

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Agree with Smith. This is a fine commentary on the state of respect for the law and law enforcement in Japan. Two Channel is violating the law. And the police are making a "request" that this website obey the law and remove illegal content. Requesting that the law be obeyed is stupid. If you have beg someone a favor to obey the law, the law is not really the law. It is merely a set of suggestions. What have police done about this website's refusal to obey the law? Nothing. Question. Are the police really serous about seeing the law obeyed? Or is the just a show? Are the police in fact sympathetic with the bigotry that prevails on 2 Channel? Or are they just too lazy?

Try refusing to pay for a speeding ticket and see what happens. You will get more than a request.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

smithinjapanNov. 09, 2013 - 08:58AM JST

ILLEGAL messages. ILLEGAL actions. There should be ZERO requests, and instead a lot of arrests. But hey, why should the police do their jobs?

OK, OK. Who said they are truly illegal? The reality is that the messages which police call illegal are not illegal for there are not so many laws that criminalize messages in Japan and freedom of speech is written in the constitution.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Gotta love 2ch.. the only regret is the site isn't in English so that the English speaking world can't benefit from the fountain of wisdom and intelligence that is 2ch.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

KabukiloverNov. 09, 2013 - 09:17AM JST

Agree with Smith. This is a fine commentary on the state of respect for the law and law enforcement in Japan. Two Channel is violating the law.

Under Japanese law, the police has no power or right at all to decide which comment is legal or illegal. The police is just requesting moderation to the 2ch operators. It seems they are unhappy and trying to lead the public opinion to create a law to give them the power to control messages on the internet.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

You're nobody important until you've been slandered multiple times by the nutter posters on 2 channel. Most of them should be taking anti-psychotic medications like aripiprazole. Reading 2 channel posts is like lifting a rock and looking at subterranean creepy-crawlies. I used to chat online with Japanese in Yahoo, but quickly realized that anything I said, no matter how innocuous, might touch a raw nerve and set them off on hysterical rants. 2 channel addresses their deep-seated urge to go crazy and is performing a valuable social function.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I believe 2chan is hosted overseas, which means the police couldn't do anything even if they wanted.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

I believe 2chan is hosted overseas, which means the police couldn't do anything even if they wanted.

That would make it easier to block access by users in Japan, wouldn't it?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

"frequently runs afoul of the law and has had numerous lawsuits filed against it over the years regarding malicious and illegal content."

WAY WAY too vauge. How does a website run afoul. Its not a torrent site and it not hosting child porn (I don't think). and why would it have lawsuits filed against it? Its a BB right? So how is the website being held liable. well....? I have no idea.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

inakaRobNov. 09, 2013 - 01:23PM JST WAY WAY too vauge. How does a website run afoul. Its not a torrent site and it not hosting child porn (I don't think). and why would it have lawsuits filed against it? Its a BB right? So how is the website being held liable. well....? I have no idea.

Actually 2chan has in the past been requested to remove child porn and links to child porn sites, in addition to advice on how to acquire drugs, make drugs and other illegal activities.

Also I'm astounded that you can even ask how a website can be illegal or held liable. A website and/or domain name is owned and paid for by a person or company just like a person or company can own a billboard. If you posted a billboard on the side of the road telling people how to get drugs you'd be arrested. If you sub-letted the billboard to others and they posted information on how to get drugs you would likewise be arrested as an accomplice if you didn't remove the information in a timely fashion once you became aware of the illegal content.

Websites are just the same. In fact 2-chan is registered to a single individual, who is technically liable for its content.

People need to shake the idea that the internet is a magical zone of anonymity where you can do anything you like and never bear any consequences.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

What kinds of comments should be illegal on the Internet?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

CH3CHO: "!Under Japanese law, the police has no power or right at all to decide which comment is legal or illegal. The police is just requesting moderation to the 2ch operators. It seems they are unhappy and trying to lead the public opinion to create a law to give them the power to control messages on the internet."

If what you say is true about Japanese law then Japanese law is absolutely ridiculous and arse-backward. They give some pretty clear examples in the article of illegal messages, and that they are illegal, and if police aren't allowed to enforce legalities 'under Japanese law', what's the point of having any? By the contradiction you are suggesting, police shouldn't have to follow the Japanese law you mention either.

"According to the IHC, most of the illegal messages involved the sale of illegal drugs, porn and bank account info."

If I got your bank account info or messages of you selling drugs and posted it, could police not do something about it to us (me for the info, you for the drugs)? or only make a suggestion.

Meanwhile, posting something on YouTube that infringes on copyright and it gets taken off immediately. Keep doing it and you can get in trouble.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Its a simple site. Another dump place on the internet like millions they cannot do anything about it

0 ( +1 / -1 )

That would make it easier to block access by users in Japan, wouldn't it?

This isn't China, and there is no Great Firewall like there is in China. The government does not block websites.

WAY WAY too vauge. How does a website run afoul. Its not a torrent site and it not hosting child porn (I don't think). and why would it have lawsuits filed against it? Its a BB right? So how is the website being held liable. well....? I have no idea.

The issues are primarily slander, however there are issues where people will sell drugs, or sell criminal services on the site. These are they types of issues the police request.

If what you say is true about Japanese law then Japanese law is absolutely ridiculous and arse-backward.

We'll, Japanese law is often ass-backward. But, in this case the law is similar in many countries. The police are for enforcement, however a determination of illegality and a take-down order must come from the judiciary. The police are not charged with determining what is illegal or not, they are tasked with enforcing known laws. So in the case of a take-down request from the police, it would be a request, not an order.

Websites are just the same. In fact 2-chan is registered to a single individual, who is technically liable for its content.

Actually you are incorrect. Websites are only liable for their content if they post it themselves, or refuse a take-down order. User generated content is not the responsibility of website owners. And finally, 2-chan is not registered to an individual, it's run by a company in Singapore.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

StrangerlandNov. 09, 2013 - 09:41PM JST Actually you are incorrect. Websites are only liable for their content if they post it themselves, or refuse a take-down order. User generated content is not the responsibility of website owners. And finally, 2-chan is not registered to an individual, it's run by a company in Singapore.

Actually I am correct, you merely misread my post. If you read my billboard analogy I was clear that the owner was only liable if they refused to take down the illegal message after they were notified of the content. The website owner is liable for the board's content.

And again you're incorrect about who owns the website. The Domain name has been sold to a company in Singapore, the servers are located in Japan hosted on Sakura Internet Inc., and the person in control of and who owns the actual website (i.e. the person responsible for actually removing objectionable content) is Japanese and living in Japan. I know this may seem confusing, but the important issue is who controls the actual website, i.e. who the police take-down notice was addressed to and who was responsible for enforcing it.

It may seem confusing, but the domain name isn't the website, the server isn't the website. The website is a set of code sitting on a sever accessed by typing an address in a certain domain into your browser. The owner of the actual code is still in Japan, the server on which the code is hosted is still in Japan... all they did was sell the domain name. I've cross-checked this information with toolbar.netcraft.com, domains.nerdydata.com, alexa.com and done a reverse IP lookup on 2-chan's address(es). I understand how you may have been mislead by the front page of wikipedia which said that the whole thing had been sold to a company in Singapore, but it is a bit more complex than that.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Frungy, the servers are not in Japan.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

homleandNov. 10, 2013 - 12:02PM JST Frungy, the servers are not in Japan.

Sakura Internet doesn't have any servers outside of Japan. That's where the IP lookup dead-ends from this side, so they're either routing the Japanese traffic through Sakura and then bouncing it to a server elsewhere (which the very low ping time does NOT support) or 2-chan is on a Sakura Internet server in Japan.

The evidence is against you.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

we are strongly requesting

The NPA would be doing more than 'strongly requesting' if 2 channel were a hotbed of leftwing expression. As it is, the powers that be are disinclined to push too strongly. Abe and his ilk derive a lot of support from the nationalist loons on 2ch and appreciate the memes that spread outward from it.

Abe and his advisors are keen to use media to further their rightist agenda. Just look at what Abe is doing to NHK.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

An anonymous internet forum is obviously not a good idea.

Japan needs to deal with its anonymity problem - a tendency for people to not want to take responsibility for themselves. Nobody takes any responsibility for anything in Japan.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

The issues are primarily slander

How do you know from an Internet message what is slander? Your mother has AIDS. Is that slander? How do the police know she doesn't have AIDS?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Hmm. Never heard of it, til now.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

There's not much they can do to shut it down. The website will just pop up again on an overseas server or as a tor service. Good luck trying to shut it down then.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

That's where the IP lookup dead-ends from this side

It's proxied to servers overseas. Load time is helped by caching. It's actually a very well done setup we have.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@Jean, it's what 4chan was modeled after. But 4chan actually does some good sometimes.

My son reads 2ch and its offshoots, and it's a problem. Not because it makes him a brainless right-wing, but because the cynicism about the future that's rampant there has gotten into him, yet he's only 18 years old. There's plenty to look forward to over the next 50-75 years if you're smart about things at all.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

2chan or any other site, including 4chan, shouldn't have to hand over private messages or information of its users to anyone.

Besides, the NSA probably has all that information anyway..

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

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