2 men arrested for assaulting 12-year-old girl they met by using Nintendo 3DS

I'm a few days late, but I'm going to have to agree with Lowly here, guys. Don't get blinded by rage and disgust.

Basically, he's just saying that this case isn't a "violent" rape case, in the sense that there is force or intimidation, since it LOOKS LIKE the girl willingly went with those men (she got molested by 1 guy 2 times, which somehow points toward that scenario).

HOWEVER! Since the girl is underaged, she is legally incapacitated to give her consent, which makes this a statutory rape, again, just like Lowly said. People, just because she's 12, doesn't mean she can't make her own decisions. Legally, she can't, but let's face it, when we were kids, we like to think we're all making our own decisions. Unfortunately, her decision wasn't the right one.

It's similar to two under aged teens having sex, it's still statutory rape, only nobody goes to jail. These two men are scum of the earth and should go to jail.

You're basically saying, "She knew what she was doing". No.

My words exactly. NO! I did not say that.

Readers, please stop bickering.

Lowly

Ya, legal definitions of rape to protect children use words like "informed consent" etc. That's fine for making laws. ALL I WAS SAYING WAS SINCE SHE MADE A DECISION SHE WILL BE ABLE TO GET OVER WHATEVER TRAUMA SHE HAS BETTER THAN VIOLENTLY RAPED VICTIMS. Therefore let's use different words. I did not say AND DO NOT THINK that it was her fault. If you want to keep thinking I said something different, go ahead, live in your own imaginary world, I am finished here.

Maybe it would have been better had you said "a violent physical rape is much worse". You can't even be certain that she won't suffer trauma any worse. How do you even know? Jesus H...

You don't get it, Lowly. You're essentially saying that "Since she made a DECISION, she knew what she was doing." And the point is, no, she didn't know what she was doing because no 12 year old knows what he or she is doing especially regarding sex and its consequences (how do you know that they won't regret it, or even feel violated, manipulated, etc, afterwards?).

I know that you're trying to separate this from violent physical rape, but you're not really doing a good job of it. You're basically saying, "She knew what she was doing". No.

Well I will only say one thing; I do teach 12 year olds, and some of them know stuff which I wouldn't even want to know (like the full lists of alcoholic cocktails offered in the partying hub of my country, or other things which are unmentionable here, but made my jaw drop) . Kids are PHYSICALLY maturing faster, and I think what Lowly meant to say is this; although they know certain stuff, can crave to do certain things and WILL try and do certain thing, they still CANNOT make a WELL THOUGHT OUT decision about it (hence, they might choose to go with it.) I.e, kid will want to try, will not realize that it will be damaging towards her, especially if her peer group encourage certain things..it affects a lot. It hasn't been a long time since I was a teen...

OK Eiji, sorry, this is tedious, if you look all along the whole time I said "lock up the guys" not, "they have no responsibility", so you are simply wrong about me.

Ya, legal definitions of rape to protect children use words like "informed consent" etc. That's fine for making laws. ALL I WAS SAYING WAS SINCE SHE MADE A DECISION SHE WILL BE ABLE TO GET OVER WHATEVER TRAUMA SHE HAS BETTER THAN VIOLENTLY RAPED VICTIMS. Therefore let's use different words. I did not say AND DO NOT THINK that it was her fault. If you want to keep thinking I said something different, go ahead, live in your own imaginary world, I am finished here.

Cleo-

Same for you.

it is not violent rape which is a totally different thing

That's fine, and as far as it goes, I agree with you.

Then we're done.

As stated above, this isn't about "fault" it is about degree, (and necessary methods of treatment) which are very different for the two different situations.

RE pics and looks. I have the feeling you want to attatch something talisman-like to ppl's looks at the age of number "12". There is so set way that all ppl look at any age, in my years in schools I have taught elementary kids thru grad students, hundreds of them. There are often enough 24 year olds who look 12. Is anyone who dates them automatically a closet child abuser? And there are often enough 12 yr olds who look over 18 without trying hard. Not everyone, but they are there. Pics, well, can be made to look like anything.

I never said that the guys have no responsibility. Just that these guys may have child abuse as a goal, or they may just be guys looking for a hooker. I do not know which. I don't believe you do either. That's all. The article, as often happens on JT, doesn't seem complete, and like the headline is different from the story. That's it, end of story.

Well this is what you said:

Lowly

Well, ambrosia, it sounds on the surface, like enjo kosai to me. If that is indeed the case, it means she went willingly, which is different than rape which is where you either threaten someone with violence or you incapacitate them with violence or drugs, and do what you do to an unwilling person. In enjo kosai you willingly participate in it.

You're saying that it's not rape, because she "went willingly". I'd say your definition of rape is rather narrow (according to you, you must threaten someone with violence). Let's say that the definition of rape is to force someone to have sex. If a 12 year old is having sex with an adult - for whatever reason - then I'd say that's rape/force because the adult obviously has so much more power and influence over the 12 year old. A 12 year old is not equipped to make such a decision, therefore it's essentially rape.

it is not violent rape which is a totally different thing

That's fine, and as far as it goes, I agree with you.

So what is all this about jr high school girls can often look a lot older, we have to keep in mind there is a possiblity these guys thought she was older than that - a namaikki jr high school kid out to get attention, or a thrill, or pocket money for a gucci bag from a socially challenged middle aged guy. - getting fooled by her puri-kura effects pic - it is her choice - she was hooking, she might be taking adult-looking pics - they cannot possibly have 'thought' she was old enough to be a legitimate sexual partner, a 12-year-old with a gucci bag? - be serious!

Saying she is twelve and can't make a decision is like a nice legal argument for making laws to protect kids, but it is not something you can actually apply to the actual situation.

It is not 'like a nice legal argument', it is the basis on which we choose to enact laws to protect people who are not capable of protecting themselves. To go back to my shoplifting analogy, there are laws to prevent theft, and saying that you just really fancied that chocolate bar so the law on theft cannot be applied to your actual situation simply doesn't hold up. Theft is theft, and two grown men sexually assaulting a child is statutory rape and an actual situation where the law absolutely needs to be applied.

She, making a decision, went around her mom's back, on purpose

The other day round at my daughter's, my three-year-old granddaughter had been told by her Mum not to go upstairs on her own because she might hurt herself if she fell; but the little minx wanted a toy she had left upstairs and, spying a moment when Mum (and, she thought, Nana) wasn't looking, she pulled away the baby circle guarding the stairs and headed on up. As it happened I was watching and stopped her, but if she had fallen and concussed herself, by your logic it would have been her own fault for going around her mom's back, on purpose. I don't see any difference between that and this, except that the danger came from grown men who should have known better, rather than a set of stairs.

Sorry bro, you are totally not reading anything I said. I did NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT "perfectly consensual". quote of me:

nor did I say anything about "she made a decision so, tough, therefore it is all her fault, not the Johns' faults". I did not say that because I don't think that.

Obviously any 12 yr old can't give informed consent. I was talking about something different. Please read the post before replying.

Are you talking to me Eiji? Read and think about the posts before commenting, please.

Yes, of course I'm talking to you. And none of what you say is relevant is because an adult shouldn't be going out, let alone having sex with a 12 year old.

But you're saying that the 12 year old girl made a "decision", therefore it was perfectly "consensual". The point is that a 12 year old is not mature enough to make such consent.

Geez, you guys, I don't really want to keep writing about this.

Are you talking to me Eiji? Read and think about the posts before commenting, please.

I never said anything about a 12 yr old making a well thought out decision nor did I say anything about "she made a decision so, tough, therefore it is all her fault, not the Johns' faults". I did not say that because I don't think that.

What I said was making a decision to do it means it is not violent rape which is a totally different thing. I was talking to another poster.

That's ridiculous, a 12 year old, not being an adult, can't possibly make a well thought out decision.

Well, Cleo, you and I may not like it,

but lots and lots of girls are actually doing that. Saying she is twelve and can't make a decision is like a nice legal argument for making laws to protect kids, but it is not something you can actually apply to the actual situation. She, making a decision, went around her mom's back, on purpose, by doing whatever to reconnect her game to be able to meet strangers. Whether this girl in particular was hooking for sure or was lured I do not know, tho she did go more than once, but anyway lots and lots and lots of girls do hook. It is not something I "want to believe" or "want to suggest," so much as it is an actual reality. They want Gucci bags or they want attention or they want sex. And they do in fact make decisions to do it. All that I am saying was that therefore, the kind of bad feelings they may be left with are going to be different than ppl who've been violently raped, so let's distinguish between them with different words.

The world is rotten!

she made a decision

She's twelve years old. What 'decisions' she makes is irrelevant, what kind of photos she might or might not have taken is irrelevant, whether she looked a couple of years older is irrelevant. The article states that the men lured the girl. I don't know why you want to believe or even suggest that a 12 year old girl was 'hooking'.

...I don't think this is Nintendo's fault, at all. ADULTS are adults only if they can protect the small ones in society, instead of jumping to the occasion to a rape a KID. Kids, are kids because they still cannot think well, are not mature enough and usually are naiive and innocent. I don't know the whole story, they might have convinced her that they're good people or maybe appeared to be "fatherly". Her "warning bell" might not have rang in time..or her sense of danger hasn't yet developed well..but it is curious how one of them raped her twice. Anyway, girl needs care and guidance..the men (honestly, they don't deserve to be called men) need jail time and psychological care.

Cleo,

I can't help but get the feeling that you are reacting to something besides what I am writing.

cannot decide to take part in a sexual act and therefore cannot decide to engage in prostitution

"cannot," except she did. Look,

My post is NOT about those guys not having responsibility, my post was in response to the poster before me who was talking about violent rape. Sorry, however young she is, the fact that she made a decision means she will (sure, depending on the person) be able to regain self-respect or integrity much more easily than someone violently raped, so please don't confuse the two situations.

You can use that word "cannot" to say they aren't capable of making good decisions and therefore we should have stat rape laws. But that's not really what I was talking about. I was responding to another poster and pointing out that since she made a decision, she is in different circumstances.

I really have no idea what if any pics the guys saw, nor did I say it excuses harming a kid. Just mentioning if they did see a pic and she was hooking, she might be taking adult-looking pics. People don't just make themselves look older or younger they look like totally different people.

Because my first post was in response to someone calling it a "violent rape." Hence I was suggesting making a distinction. You then replied to me. Maybe you didn't read the post before mine, I don't know.

I replied to you quoting the bit I was concerned about. No mention of violence.

I personally stand by my statement that prostitution and violent rape are two very different problems...if this IS enjo kosai, it is her choice

I see I am reading you right. A 12 year old cannot decide to take part in a sexual act and therefore cannot decide to engage in prostitution. By claiming that she might have been prostituting herself you're taking (at least some of) the blame off the men and putting it on her shoulders. Any man who can be 'taken in' by a puri-kura effects pic or whatever to the degree that he cannot stop himself using a child to satisfy his urges is not fit to be let out in public in possession of a willy.

lowly: Sorry Cleo and Ambrosia, I don't think you are reading or understanding my posts.

I can't speak for Cleo so I'll just speak for myself. I read your post and I understand it. I simply disagree. Is that clear enough for you?

Sorry Cleo and Ambrosia, I don't think you are reading or understanding my posts.

That is relevant here how?

Because my first post was in response to someone calling it a "violent rape." Hence I was suggesting making a distinction. You then replied to me. Maybe you didn't read the post before mine, I don't know.

I personally stand by my statement that prostitution and violent rape are two very different problems, and calling one the same as the other can really serve to confuse things. I think a distinction should be made.

I stand by saying these guys should be prosecuted for sleeping with a 12 year old. Because I think they should be. I did not justify anything whatsoever. As for her looks, to me it makes a difference if they are looking for someone who is prepubescent or not. Maybe you don't care, but if the guys were looking for a small child, it is different than looking for an adult and getting fooled by her puri-kura effects pic, then to me it is a different. What they got was not an adult though, so, AS I SAID, they should be prosecuted. Kids should be protected.

One thing I did say was that if this IS enjo kosai, it is her choice which gives her a great power in helping herself get over that stuff. I don't know if you don't want to admit that for some reason, or if you just don't know, but someone who has been held down, intimidated, and violently abused is in a different class of s**-to-get-over-in-life than someone who got in over their head in something based on a CHOICE they made. I understand you want to take the position that she's a kid and should be protected no matter what. IN fact I believe the same. I never said it's her choice so the guys aren't guilty. I'm just saying "Please don't call it violent rape. Because that is something different from somebody who made a choice."*

lowly: In enjo kosai you willingly participate in it. Her age is something that has high ick-factor, true. However, jr high school girls can often look a lot older, we have to keep in mind there is a possiblity these guys thought she was older than that.

Her age doesn't have a "high-ick factor". It has a high she-isn't mature-enough-to-have-made-this-decision-and-the-two-men-raped-her factor. How old she looks is pretty irrelevant. As Cleo said, even if she looked a little older she would still have looked too young.

Have you seen the results of violent rape up close?

Just because a person isn't beaten doesn't mean the rape wasn't violent. A threat of violence, a threat to tell someone the victim knows, a threat to repeat the act are all used to prevent a victim from fighting back. The victim doesn't have to be beaten or hit for it to be violent. Someone forcing you to have sex is violent. If she had been eight years old and known and trusted the perpetrator who had "gentle" sex with her, would you consider it violent rape?

All I was doing was saying there is a difference between choice and violent attacks on an unwilling participant.

The point is that someone the age of this victim isn't mentally or emotionally mature enough to have made this choice.

shinjuku no yaju: I don't think you know what "statutory rape" means. I'm not saying it's not a vile and harmful crime. I know that it is because i've seen the effects of it on a loved one.

Thank you for jumping to conclusions about my supposed ignorance but, yes, I do understand what statutory rape is. It's when sex occurs with one of the people being under the age of consent. The problem with labeling a rape as a statutory rape is that it diminishes the seriousness of the crime and allows people to be somewhat okay with it, as if the fact that the victim were underaged is a mere technicality. It's rape and should be called that. We're not talking about a 16-year old girl whose parents don't like her 18-year old boyfriend here. We're talking about a child and two grown men.

I'm saying that when I first saw the headline i imagined some deranged guys assaulting some defenseless girl on the street.

Why would you even think that? If you know anything about rape then you know that the image of some stranger assaulting a woman walking alone down a dark street is actually far from reality. According to most statistics, only 9% of rapes are committed by a stranger. The rest are committed by someone the victim knows in some way or the other. You don't get raped because of what you're wearing or because you were out alone. You don't get raped because you were asking for it. It's still rape even if you didn't fight back. Unfortunately myths still persist, even among people who claim to understand what rape is all about.

The article says:

" she found a way to reconnect the device and go online", so it is not a manufacturing defect.

girl 12 fooled into having sex I think thats a better title

Disgusting bastards. Knowing the loli-con term is assumed to be the "nice" way of saying all out pedophile. Japan needs to get with the times. They need to be labeled straight off as pedophiles and sexual predators. If only there were better freakin' laws and judicial measures against these types of crimes!

No, the manufacturer is liable and should be sued. They provided an option that SAID it disabled the internet connection, but it didn't, and the parents used that in good faith. Nintendo should pay damages.

Nintentdo provided a software option that can disabled the internet, it clearly did disable the internet connection otherwise the girl would not have gone to the trouble to circumvent it. Any parental controls can be circumvented. Most likely the girl was able to guess the password/pin to get around the parental control lock.

Have you seen the results of violent rape up close?

That is relevant here how? The girl is a child. She is not capable of making a decision regarding sex and so any sexual act performed upon her is statutory rape. The laws are in place because it is acknowledged that children are not always capable of making the right decisions and need to be protected. I don't see how describing what happened to her as statutory rape in any way detracts from the trauma of violent rape perpetrated on an unwilling adult (or child). You may as well try to argue that shoplifting isn't theft because some people get mugged and that's worse.

I did not justify the guys' actions

Sorry, but she went willingly ... jr high school girls can often look a lot older, we have to keep in mind there is a possiblity these guys thought she was older than that sounds a lot like you're trying to excuse what the men did, as in it was her fault for being a child and looking older than 12. There is no excuse at all for grown men to be luring a young girl to a hotel room, there are no mitigating circumstances and these two deserve to have the book thrown at them good and hard.

Cleo,

Have you seen the results of violent rape up close?

I don't want to be too graphic, but I have seen women who were beaten up and raped. It was definitely not a choice the woman made. I also had a couple of friends growing up who were violently coerced into sex when still in elementary school.

(Assuming this story is about enjo kosai which it seems like to me) I personally cannot compare the trauma I've seen and dealt with 1st hand with ppl close to me, to a namaikki jr high school kid out to get attention, or a thrill, or pocket money for a gucci bag from a socially challenged middle aged guy.

The high ick factor comes from posters trying to justify the actions of men who mess around with kids. She was 12.

I hope you're not implying me; I did not justify the guys' actions and said they deserve to be arrested. All I was doing was saying there is a difference between choice and violent attacks on an unwilling participant. Don't put words in my mouth.

I am sure the choices this young girl is making will not be be "good" for her, and there may very well be reasons for her to make these decisions such as neglect at home that are not very happy reasons. However the power she has in making those choices is exactly what is going to help her get over them when and if she is ready to take charge of her life in a different way.

People who have been completely violated and beaten and broken often lose that power. You might not want to, but I differentiate between the two situations.

AussieboyNov. 08, 2013 - 08:28PM JST What about the people that work in the love hotels that allow a 12 yo girl to go up into a room with a 30 or 40 something yo. This is where it can be stopped.

I think maybe you've never been to a love hotel. I've been to several with my wife. Most of them are automated. You walk into the lobby, choose your room from a menu, put your money into a machine and follow the arrows/lights/etc up to your room.

What about the people that work in the love hotels that allow a 12 yo girl to go up into a room with a 30 or 40 something yo. This is where it can be stopped.

AKBfanNOV. 08, 2013 - 12:59PM JST i think the nintendo 3DS should be banned.

You want millions of children, teenagers, young and old adults also grannies and granpops around the world to sob in depression? Banning the well-loved hand held device is not the solution. It was nonetheless the lack of good parenting.

ambrosia

I don't think you know what "statutory rape" means. I'm not saying it's not a vile and harmful crime. I know that it is because i've seen the effects of it on a loved one. I'm saying that when I first saw the headline i imagined some deranged guys assaulting some defenseless girl on the street. It seems clear that she arranged to met them in the hotel and probably agreed to the act. but she's only 12 and doesn't have the maturity to MAKE that call and these two "men" know that. rickyvee was right that a lot of girls abused and used at early ages do fall into the sex trade and I hope this poor girl isn't one of them

The article says that police on Tuesday re-arrested 49 year-old Hiroshi Nagata, who had been previously charged for “indecent assault,” on suspicion of raping the girl. The Yokohama resident allegedly assaulted the girl in January and February in an Ibaraki hotel.

The second man arrested was 36-year-old Shu Ishitobi from Chiba Prefecture. He was held for attempted rape and is suspected of molesting the girl on Feb 11 in a hotel in Ibaraki Prefecture.

Nowhere does it say that the girl met the man twice. It's possible that the initial charges may have been indecent assault, but after investigation changed to rape.

I'm also having a hard time with some people basically saying the girl went willingly to have sex - she is TWELVE for Pete's sake, not some teenager out for extra credit on her phone or whatever.

it sounds on the surface, like enjo kosai to me. If that is indeed the case, it means she went willingly, which is different than rape which is where you either threaten someone with violence or you incapacitate them with violence or drugs

Whether she went 'willingly' or not, she was incapacitated and unable to participate willingly in any sexual activity on account of being 12 years old. That why there are laws covering statutory rape, to protect little girls (and boys) who don't know any better and are easy pickings for dirty old men.

The high ick factor comes from posters trying to justify the actions of men who mess around with kids. She was 12. If she looked five years older (nearly half as old again as her real age, yeah, right), she's still underage and jailbait.

Well, ambrosia, it sounds on the surface, like enjo kosai to me. If that is indeed the case, it means she went willingly, which is different than rape which is where you either threaten someone with violence or you incapacitate them with violence or drugs, and do what you do to an unwilling person. In enjo kosai you willingly participate in it. Her age is something that has high ick-factor, true. However, jr high school girls can often look a lot older, we have to keep in mind there is a possiblity these guys thought she was older than that.

To me, I prefer to distinguish between enjo kosai/ prostitution and actual violence. Should the guys be prosecuted for statutory rape? In this case, yeah certainly. But I feel calling this situation (as it is presented to us here) "violent" rape is not effective, as it really takes away from an actual scary violent situation that another person may experience.

Of course, there could be details we don't know about, just as it looks based on this.

shinjuku no yaju: It doesn't seem like it was violent rape,

All rape is violent. Rape means you are being forced to have sex. You are being made to have sex without your consent. How is that not violent? Again, she's a child. I don't care if she went there willingly or not. She's incapable of making the decisions necessary to consent to sex with grown men and incapable of understanding the consequences of her actions. Seriously! Were none of you ever 12? Do none of you have sisters or daughters who were once 12? This isn't cultural. This isn't acceptable. This isn't "dating". This is rape. I feel sick just reading some of these comments.

These guys are predators pure and simple and should be thrown to the wolves.

But we needn't all fear our children are in as much danger. The girl went out to meet them possibly with the intention of having sex. One of the men she met twice. As Ambrosia said, this is not a decision a 12 year old is adequately equipped to make. You have to wonder what other factors in her life drove her to do this. Troubled children are always easy targets for manipulative old pervs. Where was the family?

gaijin6000Nov. 08, 2013 - 02:23PM JST If you want to end the internet connection: Throw the device away, Or (if you know how) physically disable the hardware with a soldering iron.

No, the manufacturer is liable and should be sued. They provided an option that SAID it disabled the internet connection, but it didn't, and the parents used that in good faith. Nintendo should pay damages.

Yeah, how did this all come about? Did she know they were old men when she met them?

rickyvee: she met two guys and went to a love hotel. sounds like enjokosai to me, and only statutory rape. i hope this doesn't portend a future in the sex trade for this girl.

Seriously? She's 12, for pete's sake! She's not even a teenager. She sounds like a naive, little girl desperate for attention. Her naivety, stupidity, whatever you want to call it, should in no way mitigate what these two men did - which was rape, plain and simple, nothing statutory about it. I'm sorry but a 12-year old is a child and as such is not capable of consenting to sexual relations, especially not with men the age of these two rapists. Let's hope she gets the counseling she seems to desperately need and they get the prison sentence they deserve for raping a child.

If you want to end the internet connection:

Throw the device away, Or (if you know how) physically disable the hardware with a soldering iron.

Sorry, but why didn't the parents know she was meeting men? I hope these two pedophiles are locked away for a very long time, but I know Japanese law is not very strict about this kind of assault and they will both be given suspended sentences. If Japan was to invoke a sex offenders list like other countries it would take months to read them all.

i think the nintendo 3DS should be banned.

It doesn't seem like it was violent rape, which restores a tiny tiny bit of my faith in humanity. But it was definitely statuary rape and child abuse. I know a girl who was abused that way at that age and the effects last for years. I hope they through the book at these predators.

What exactly is “indecent assault”?

she met two guys and went to a love hotel. sounds like enjokosai to me, and only statutory rape. i hope this doesn't portend a future in the sex trade for this girl.

This is a bit strange

The Yokohama resident allegedly assaulted the girl in January and February in an Ibaraki hotel.

2 times? So after the first rape she came to the hotel again willingly or was abducted a second time? And how did she met the other guy, also at a hotel?

Either way these guys need to get punished hard, only 12 y.o. ffs

So instead they can just use the internet or cell phone sites. It's not Nintento's fault -- it's the fault of the sick men.

Sounds like a large grooming ring. Scary.