crime

2 U.S. sailors get 9-10 years for raping woman in Okinawa

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They got what they deserved. They have a long time to figure out where they went wrong. Also they have much time to perfect their chopstick skills while dining on prison chow ...

3 ( +8 / -5 )

@Edojin If it's anything like yokosuka area, they will go to a special section of the prison where they will get much better treatment than other prisoners and they will eat food bought in from the base. None the less, prison is prison.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Nah,edojin, they'll be eating steaks man. I read somewhere that SOFA personnel imprisoned get different treatment/means while in prison. Before anyone begins with the confessions being coerced, remember that one of them admitted to the rape when this first came up.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

There's something seriously wrong with sentencing here. I think what these men did is horrid, and deserves what they are being sentenced to, but wasn't it only earlier this week we were hearing about a murderer getting four or five years?

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Too Bad their not gonna visit the Military Prison in Ft. Leavenworth for the next decade !

4 ( +5 / -1 )

They deserved more time inside. I really hope these two cowardly thugs cop a rough time from the Okinawans inside. Not so tough now are you, boys. I just hope the poor victim can somehow rebuild her life.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

They got off easy . They deserve at least 25

4 ( +10 / -6 )

Would someone care to QUOTE STASTICS on HOW LONG the average Skum Japanese Rapist gets for doing the EXACT same thig these guys did ?; ' Inquiring Minds want to Know ' .

Moderator: No difference.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Question is will they serve their full term here in Japan , sometimes the sentencing is finished out in their home country. After this term do they get more punishment from the USA military side ??

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Probably will get time already served and a Bad Conduct Discharge when they get out. While I agree with the sentence the Japanese justice system is unbalanced.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

I don't think the punishment fits the crime.

0 ( +5 / -6 )

Interesting how rape is defined in different cultures, this a ON topic read:

http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/cross_fac/iatl/ejournal/issues/volume1issue1/gray/

0 ( +1 / -1 )

they should be fluent in japanese by the time they get out .

1 ( +3 / -2 )

The quote from the judge concerns me. These guys got "severe" punishment because the community was angered. Why were they angered? Not because it was rape but because it was foreign servicemen that did it. While I agree with most that 10 years is no where near long enough for rape, Japanese Judoka Masato Uchishiba only got five years. Where was the community anger then?

18 ( +21 / -3 )

No Miso-san,

I don't think the punishment fits the crime.

What would you suggest?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Oki, he said he was sorry...

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

Judge Hideyuki Suzuki said. "The ruling may seem severe,"

Err not at all actually.

Yongyang, thanks for the link. It was very interesting, but there's so much there that's arguable or that I completely disagree with, and so much opinion-as-fact and hearsay that I'm shocked it was published by Warwick and done at Sheffield.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

No Miso-san,

I don't think the punishment fits the crime. What would you suggest?

There is inbalance in the justice system that ends up with a sentence like this. There is also a lot of foggy history around this particular case that suggests there may be more about appeasement for the general presence of the US in Okinawa than dealing with this particular case.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Don't worry folks. After they served time in Japan, they will face more jail in the US.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Why should they serve time in the US if they were charged in Japan and punished unde Japanese laws? Seems very unfair. The Japanese always want them tried in their courts and they got their way. Not "fair" to have them punished by both in my opinion. We all know sentencing here is a joke but it should be one or the other, not both.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

@Edojin If it's anything like yokosuka area, they will go to a special section of the prison where they will get much better treatment than other prisoners and they will eat food bought in from the base. None the less, prison is prison. -

There is no base even close to the prison in Okinawa and from what I understand they get treated the same as any other Japanese prisoner here. Their Japanese is going to get good real fast.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Case closed.... Hopefully the victim can move on.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

I just read another article from "Stripes". It gave good details about the trial and what actually took place during testimony. After reading the disturbing details, I think they should have gotten more time. The incident was actually caught on security camera.

http://www.stripes.com/news/sailors-sentenced-for-gang-rape-in-case-that-sparked-curfew-1.210106

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Serving time in the US after committing a crime and doing jail overseas is standard procedure. Go ask a nice serviceman.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

i just wish every rapist got a sentence like this.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

"The ruling may seem severe...." I'm sorry but it seems about right as a US citizen. Plus upon release they would be automatically listed as a registered sex offender. I know Japan is not the US but I think that's another cue that Japan's law enforcement should pick up on is have a system that keeps track of those convicted of rapes, and attempted sexual assaults.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Public lashings would be a good punishment to add on to these abusers of power and trust.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

In addition to the punishment in Japan they'll get more under UCMJ after serving time in Japan. Their lives are effectively over.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Serving time in the US after committing a crime and doing jail overseas is standard procedure. Go ask a nice serviceman.

In addition to the punishment in Japan they'll get more under UCMJ after serving time in Japan. Their lives are effectively over.

I would really appreciate both of you putting up some links or factual information that backs up what you both are saying here other than just supposition.

As I noted previously in the 95' rape all three were released from Japanese prison and discharged from the military with NO other jail time in the US or in military prison either. They were all given dishonorable discharges.

These two guys are facing the same thing.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

“The ruling may seem severe, but the damage to the feelings of the victim and residents is more severe,” he said in a statement after the case, according to Kyodo News.

No it isn't severe at all: they ruined a woman's life - they weren't dealt with severely enough in my opinion.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

No it isn't severe at all: they ruined a woman's life - they weren't dealt with severely enough in my opinion. -

In comparison to some murder sentences here in Japan it is severe. Rape convictions sometimes get harsher sentences than murders do.

This sentence, like it or not, was also politically motivated as well, the guys in the 95' rape case, they raped a 12 year old girl, received lighter sentences than these guys did. The judge obviously was taking the public discord into consideration.

FIne by me, however I would prefer to see more balanced sentencing than basing the sentence upon public sentiment.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

@Patric Spohn

No they will not! This crime did not happen in the US. They will be discharged from the Navy once they return to the US. It is not standard practice to jail someone again after time served elsewhere. Educate yourself and look up Double Jeopardy.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Now they have long time to think about what they did and they will call them self stupid every morning they wake up.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Justice is being done means case is closed. The people of Okinawa see the criminals going to jail. When they get out in 2022 and are discharged they will have nothing.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

For those who think they're getting off light, know this; After they finish their imprisonment in Japan, they will still be in the military and subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ).

As such, they will be tried under the UCMJ, most likely found guilty, be imprisoned in the U.S. - probably Ft. Levinworth - for a significant number of years (up to Life) and be given Dishonorable Discharges with loss of all pay and benefits including VA.

Again, this is AFTER they finish their Japanese imprisonment.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Yubari

FIne by me, however I would prefer to see more balanced sentencing than basing the sentence upon public sentiment.

There's something wrong with how your brain is wired. There were more attention and reactions from the public because they were AMERICANS. And do you think they'd get a fair trial?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

One other note, to my above. Trying them under the UCMJ does NOT constitute double jeopardy. Since they were tried and found guilty under specific sections and articles of foreign law, they are still eligible to be tried under U.S. Law. The "Double Jeopardy" provision only prevents the accused from being tried twice under the exact same section of the U.S. Criminal Code. Even then, it's subject to a very, very narrow interpretation.

In short, they're not going to be free for a very, very long time.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

As such, they will be tried under the UCMJ, most likely found guilty, be imprisoned in the U.S. - probably Ft. Levinworth - for a significant number of years (up to Life) and be given Dishonorable Discharges with loss of all pay and benefits including VA.

Are you sure? It seems like double jeopardy. I can understand a trial by UCMJ for a separate "military" offence which is not covered by civlian offences.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

One other note, to my above. Trying them under the UCMJ does NOT constitute double jeopardy. Since they were tried and found guilty under specific sections and articles of foreign law, they are still eligible to be tried under U.S. Law. The "Double Jeopardy" provision only prevents the accused from being tried twice under the exact same section of the U.S. Criminal Code. Even then, it's subject to a very, very narrow interpretation.

In the 1996 case, the three ex-officers served time in Japan but there was no mention of subquent punishment by U.S. The article simply states that they were "released from prison in 2003 and dishonorably discharged."

http://www.stripes.com/news/former-marine-who-sparked-okinawa-furor-is-dead-in-suspected-murder-suicide-1.53269

3 ( +4 / -1 )

I applaud many of the comments above but I really dislike the term ' fits the crime'. I am against the death penalty but these men have done that for this young lady. I know a few rape victims in Japan and they have never recovered from their ordeal. Ten years later these men will leave Japan for a life back in the USA and get on with their life. But, will the victim ever be able to 'get on with her life'?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Call it possible double jeopardy if you wish, but they should be prosecuted AGAIN in military court after their release in Japan.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

None of you have realize the most important change US Secretary of State (Hillary Clinton) and Defense Dept (Panetta) have made in Japan/US Treaty recently under Obama. Now legal jurisdiction has completely handed over to Japan to try the case like this. There have been a lot of negotiations between Japan and US behind the revolving door. This is very fair and just for Japanese victims. You asked for it and it was done for you.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

they should be fluent in japanese by the time they get out .

That's a great one Richard. lol. ^^

0 ( +1 / -1 )

“The ruling may seem severe, but the damage to the feelings of the victim and residents is more severe,” he said in a statement after the case, according to Kyodo News.

Not severe at all. This is exactly what they deserve for assaulting and raping her.

None of you have realize the most important change US Secretary of State (Hillary Clinton) and Defense Dept (Panetta) have made in Japan/US Treaty recently under Obama. Now legal jurisdiction has completely handed over to Japan to try the case like this.

eh, What? The SOFA agreement has been in effect since 1960 and clearly defined even back then that Japan has primary jurisdiction for cases like this. The ONLY time the U.S. could override that would be if the U.S. personnel were acting under orders, otherwise performing their duties, or if it was a case of one U.S. service member committing a crime against another U.S. service member (none of which applies here). Clinton and Panetta didn't do anything to change that - because they didn't have to. Check out the text of the 1960 Agreement and in particular take a look at Article XVII, Section 3a (which states which offenses the U.S. can claim primary jurisdiction over), and Section 3b (which says Japan has primary jurisdiction over ALL other criminal offenses committed in Japan). You'll note that NOTHING in Section 3a matches what these guys did, so Section 3b is the applicable jurisdiction rule.

1960 SOFA Text in Japanese and English: http://www.mofa.go.jp/mofaj/area/usa/sfa/pdfs/fulltext.pdf

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Why should they serve time in the US if they were charged in Japan and punished unde Japanese laws? Seems very unfair.

Japan charged and convicted them for breaking Japan's laws regarding rape. The two convicts STILL will have to face a military courts martial for violating sections of the Uniform Code of Military Justice regarding violent crimes and the "General Article" that covers embarrassing the U.S. Military and the United States. They may get prison time, or they may have their prison time waved in lieu of the time they already served in Japan. Regardless, they ultimately will be reduced in rank prior to being cashiered out of the Navy. Their lives from the time they entered the Navy until the time they are dishonorably discharged will become a huge "black hole" on their resumés. They won't want to note that they received a dishonorable discharge, so they'll just treat that block of years as nothing, or lie and make something up.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

good riddance bad rubbish.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@Fadamor SOFA is also your best friend because you're left US custody until charged. That short circuits the normal J-Cop way of doing things. Prosecutors don't like to charge people without confessions. J-Cops like to get confessions by holding people for long durations without charge. Obviously it was open and shut for those rapists mentioned here. But for other kinds of cases the J-Cops would actually be forced to do real police work.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

The two sailor's will face double jeapordy, as is the policy of the United States Navy, and you are warned in bootcamp, if you commit a criminal act in a forein country you will face their justice system, then face a captain's mast, or most likely ending in full court marshal, and a "BCD" ( Bad Conduct Discharge). Once more over they could face Civil charges if the victim want's to sue in an American Court. I hope and pray the girl becomes stronger, and she deservse's all the good thing's this world has to offer...Bless her heart...

2 ( +2 / -0 )

In Okinawa the "word in the bars" by the GI's was that the girl was a prostitute as if it was okay. Ends up she wasn't a prostitute.. more character assassination by the drunk GI's in the bars. Amazing how many yearn to believe these things.. kind of a self defense mechanism or something.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

In the 1case, the three ex-officers served time in Japan but there was no mention of subquent punishment by U.S. The article simply states that they were "released from prison in 2003 and dishonorably discharged."

They were tried twice. The military court martial resulted in a dishonorable discharge. There is nothing that says you have to be thrown in jail. It's case by case. It depends on how much time was served and rather or not they think you deserve more. There was another rape case in Hiroshima that was thrown out by the Japanese courts because the 'victim' changed her story. The same people were then tried under military court and punished.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Oki, he said he was sorry...

So did the service members in this case. You should read the stars and stripes article for a more recollection of the case.

http://www.stripes.com/news/sailors-sentenced-for-gang-rape-in-case-that-sparked-curfew-1.210106

1 ( +1 / -0 )

No wonder that Okinawa wants the US out of there.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

@umioso I don't think the US military leaving would change crime rates. If anything they'd go up per capita as US Military members are actually far less likely to commit crime.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I

n the 1996 case, the three ex-officers served time in Japan but there was no mention of subquent punishment by U.S. -

First they were not officers. But you are right and as I have been pointing out and people are missing here, these guys could be charged by the military for other offenses as well, like desertion, but the military will more than likely just kick them out when their time is completed.

The military doesnt want to have to pay to keep them incarcerated either for a crime that they already served time for. Whether or not they can be tried for the same crime is up to the JAG.

That's a great one Richard. lol. ^

Thank you but my name is not Richard. Lol!

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

For all the folks making claims that they will be tried by the military for the same offense, please support your claims by showing some information regarding prior incidents where the military tried them AND imprisoned them for said offense.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

There's something wrong with how your brain is wired. There were more attention and reactions from the public because they were AMERICANS. And do you think they'd get a fair trial?

Think so? You really need to get your brains wiring checked out. First off in the previous case there was public outrage here like I have never seen before in my nearly 30 years of living here. In comparison this case's "public outrage" was mild.

Next there was NO TRIAL, they confessed, AND there was a 50 minute security video showing them committing the crime. It has little to do with their being AMERICANS, foreigners MAYBE, Military, YES in my opinion very probable.

However it doesnt change the fact that the sentencing is harsher this time than last, and the last was a MUCH worse crime by far, read the details. Those guys KIDNAPPED and RAPED a 12 year old girl, it was a premeditated act, and heinous. They should STILL be rotting in jail as far as I am concerned.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The double jeopardy standard applies here. They cannot be punished for the same crime twice; even by the military. They will be discharged once released from prison. They most likely will not have anymore charges placed on them by the military.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

@Little Boots It's only double jeopardy when under the same legal system. You can be charged twice under two different legal systems for the same crime. I've been in the military and worked as a YN. Legal was part of my job.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

@darknuts- Thanks for clearing up the DJ thing. I still don't think the Navy will do anything after they have served 10 years; I wouldn't think they would wste their time.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Vernie - thanks for the link to the Stars and Stripes article !

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Why not have a permanent curfew for all member under 30 years of age or in the service for less than 5 years? That would solve 99% of the problem. Add in extra flights to Guam for R&R, nobody has to suffer.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Why not have a permanent curfew for all member under 30 years of age or in the service for less than 5 years? That would solve 99% of the problem -

No it wouldn't, not by a long shot, but then you's have to know and understand the history and situation.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Why not have a permanent curfew for all member under 30 years of age or in the service for less than 5 years? That would solve 99% of the problem. Add in extra flights to Guam for R&R, nobody has to suffer.

There's been a curfew for the last two months now. Crime has gone up since then. The curfew is a joke. It can't be enforced.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Good. They deserve 25 years actually. Stupid fools! I hope the young ladies heart heals!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

well they got off easy. the woman and her family got a life sentence.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Crime has gone up since then.

No it hasn't gone up, just your perception of it because of all the complaining done in the media.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

They got what they deserved! I hope they don't get special treatment or something. Rapists, regardless if they are American should be locked up for the remainder of their miserable lives!

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The double jeopardy standard applies here. They cannot be punished for the same crime twice; even by the military. They will be discharged once released from prison. They most likely will not have anymore charges placed on them by the military.

You're missing the concept of double jeopardy. "Double jeopardy" involves being tried for the same crime twice in the same judicial system. There is no "double jeopardy" when the suspect is tried in one country's judicial system, then tried in the U.S. military judicial system. Two different systems with two different sets of laws on the books. As T-Mack noted above, this was all explained to the sailors when they went through boot camp. If their legal counsel in the courts martial tried to claim "double jeopardy", the judge would likely dismiss him/her for judicial incompetence.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

http://law.freeadvice.com/government_law/military_law/military_court_civilian.htm

Yes, the military may try someone under their own rules, even after a state court trial. The reason is that military and civilian courts are fundamentally separate systems with their own sets of requirements. As a result, the constitutional right to no double jeopardy or no double punishment is preserved by having separate trials in the two different systems. Both the federal government (which usually represents military interests) and a state may prosecute someone for the same conduct.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

So was this woman Japanese? I hear rumors that Japanese news is reporting the woman to be a Filipino prostitute who raised the price after the fact. Just trying to clear speculation. @YongYang very good article and well cited. Better than most articles by the host website.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

So was this woman Japanese?

From the article:

Two U.S. sailors who raped a Japanese woman in Okinawa

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I thik that 10 years in a Japanese prison sends a pretty strong message. The Japanese courts appear to have got this one right.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

They will get out early for good behavior me thinks.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

10 years? and the Judge said "It may seem severe". 10 years is a joke! I pray they get tried again and sent into the American prison system. Only then will the word 'severe' actually have meaning...don't drop the soap.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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