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© KYODO80 women arrested Jan-Sept in Tokyo's Kabukicho for alleged prostitution
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Garthgoyle
Could have expanded on what goes behind these two situations in the article. I have no clue what underground boys bands are.
browny1
80 women have been arrested for allegedly soliciting customers.
How many customers (mainly men I presume) have been charged for soliciting the services of a prostitute?
Or do customers get a free pass?
CuteUsagi
Garth
I think those are secret words for Boy Hostess Pretty Johnny kinds of boys. I might be wrong though but that is what I heard.
Marr Bourdein
men or women soliciting sex in Japan is not illegal. It becomes illegal when money is used in the exchange. The prostitute (make or female) don't pay taxes so they are illegally employed up to that point. It's a small fine apart from the humiliation that is taken from them. The second time they are caught they can face a larger fine but no prison/jail time for that offense unless they test positive for drugs. If so that can range from fines, jail time and possible deportation (if it were a foreigner) but for the most part Japanese women just get fined.
Leo T
browny1Today 04:56 pm JST
80 women have been arrested for allegedly soliciting customers.
How many customers (mainly men I presume) have been charged for soliciting the services of a prostitute?
Or do customers get a free pass?
It is the woman fault, she is selling it.
Do police go after people who purchase drugs?
Or the drug dealers?
Elvis is here
Decriminalise it. Better still legalise it. Then you can control and tax it, and every one will be happy.
Tell_me_bout_it
Playing the victim card. As some users in this website prominently say, "the victim is always the victim. No matter the circumstances."
albaleo
Me neither. There's some info at the link below.
https://nextshark.com/japans-underground-boy-bands-charging-fans-10-per-minute-finger-kisses
Perhaps, but I guess it's just easier to catch the prostitutes by having plain clothes police hang around and be solicited.
SDCA
As the young are catching on that earning yen isn't going to get them anywhere, they are turning to other countries for sugar daddies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xG-EGqVPh2w
wanderlust
Only 80 in 6 months? There were 5 sitting on the wall outside my hotel in Roppongi last week, soliciting everyone going in and out! Zero interest from the police box around the corner.
diagonalslip
must be time for the pōlis to rack up some funds for the bonenkai....
nosuke
I’m n japan almost every train station has hookers I’m surprised they got arrested as this has been around forever n japan for decades
falseflagsteve
These fallen women need moral guidance about what is right and wrong in a civilised society.
As for the perverted men that go to these women, they should be named and shamed by the police by telling their families and partners about their activities.
These women are engaging in activities that lower the tone of areas and flood the area with men of low morals and most like criminal tendencies.
nosuke
Maybe because they were self employed and not under yakuza management prostitution and the police we’re not getting the chip of the coin
kurisupisu
Quelle surprise!
The police going after street walkers?
I am almost falling off my chair laughing!
Prostitution is rife all over Japan and makes a lot of money but the government doesn’t like streetwalkers as they don’t pay tax as the thousands of massage parlors do…
Elvis is here
That's a bit of an exaggeration. It's not like they have a sign on them that says so.
Almost every train station has lockers.
justasking
How many men who were soliciting these women were police and politicians???
JeffLee
I read about a certain type of racket years ago in a Japanese tabloid. The girls were young and made tons of money working as hostesses. But their bosses made arrangements with bossess at host bars, whereby the girls are pressured to to there after they finish their regular work.
The hosts relieve the girls of their hard-earning $$$ by massively overcharging them and pressuring them to keep coming back, until they go broke. It's plain and simple extortion. In this case, it seems street soliciting rather than hostessing was involved. To a large extent, "hosts" in Japan are a sham. Many of their female "customers" are forced to be with them rather than wanting to. Makes sense if you ever see those guys.
isabelle
Indeed. There's a lot more going on than that. Prostitutes have been operating constantly in Roppongi, and around most major stations, for as long as I can remember.
I would agree. People will always want to pay for sex so it's not something you can stop via legislation. As long as the parties consent and there's no coercion, I see no problem with it.
Make it safe and legal, and protect those involved. Some people would be morally outraged, but I think society would benefit.
nosuke
All hostess bars are own by the yakuza soo many in Kabukicho Shinjuku
falseflagsteve
Isabelle
That is ludicrous and will lead to broken marriages, increased STD infections and the breakdown off traditional family values without which the nation will quickly slide into a decedent hell hole.
falseflagsteve
Elvis
i have little empathy for criminals.
Elvis is here
Ditto. Well said.
Elvis is here
So legalise it.
koiwaicoffee
Quite hypocritical. There are literally thousands of establishments where these services are traded daily. Most if not all ruled by Yakuza.
I wonder if to regulate these is not possible because a conflict of interests between the LPD and local mafias. Or an understanding between both.
Mirai Hayashi
let em go!!!!!
Harry_Gatto
Lower the tone of Kabukicho? ROFL
2 Year Old
Party poopers!
2 Year Old
indeed.
you want find a more wretched hide of scum or villainy.
Tell_me_bout_it
Didnt they say the same about drugs in Canada? And now every other person in Canada is drug addicted? Or that's what some vloggers are sayin.
isabelle
Neither you or I know what it will lead to unless it is tried.
As I say, people will always pay for sex: you can't change human nature, but you can protect the people involved (who are sometimes, though not always, vulnerable) and remove the coercive/yakuza element.
It is legal is several countries, including parts of Australia and New Zealand. They haven't experienced the kind of things you talk of. Take a look at this, and try to think about it from the sex workers' point of view:
https://archive.thinkprogress.org/these-3-graphs-could-change-your-mind-about-legalizing-sex-work-346ea00c8037/
Kimberlee Cline, an independent sex worker based in California, told ThinkProgress in an email that she found working in Australia, where prostitution is decriminalized, to be “the most ideal scenario.” She listed free medical screenings, reminders of her rights as a sex worker, health and safety information, protection of her identity, and ease of setting up appointments legally as benefits of the system there. “When I started sex work in California several years prior, none of this support was available,” she said.
And a look at New Zealand’s decriminalization of prostitution, which was promoted by sex workers and legalized brothels, reveals none of the “catastrophic effects” promised by opponents of the model. A government-commissioned study examining the effects of the 2003 decriminalization law reveals some positive effects like greater likelihood of reporting violence to the police, widespread use of a government guide on health and safety practices in the industry, and no rise, or even a drop, in the number of sex workers in the country.
daikaka
The other 59% of the women don’t have debt ti host clubs or underground idols but are willingly paying them.
Pretty much 99% of all prostitution and kyaba etc is due to hosts or underground idols, whose market have been growing expoentially especially since covid. Right now even mid tier kabukicho hosts makes 8-10M monthly when you consider cash payments directly from the girls for extra services, with many of the girls underage.
if the government want to fix the issue, they need to regulate the host clubs. But that is becoming more unlikely by the day as the hosts now represent the richest class in Japan who can donate a lot of money
Yubaru
And just how many guys were nailed? If there is no market for their services, they wouldnt be there!
Legalize it, regulate it, tax it, and get rid of the stupid arsed "grey" areas in the laws that makes it only illegal to have "vaginal" sex at a soapland or fashion (insert your choice of service) health!
These "morals" laws are BS instituted by the American occupation, before that Japan was so prudish about sex!
If a woman or man, makes the choice, of their own choosing, to have people pay them for sex. SO WHAT!
If they are forced into it! Nail the arseholes who are responsible!
WA4TKG
Worked three or four different jobs in and around Kabukicho….Shinjuku.
Never a dull moment. Dubliners vs Shamrock
NotThe One
This is only for the optics. The main street with the hotels and restaurants for Japanese streetwalkers and trans (mostly Thai) streetwalkers is in front of Okubo hospital. That includes the side street across from Okubo park. On the corner of the hospital is the fairly large Shinjuku Koban. They can walk 2 minutes and see all the streetwalkers they want. During the summer depending on the night, that street has over 20 streetwalkers. There would be tons of cops standing outside of the koban because the number of police officers is large. All just talking to each other or attempting to look menacing to the passing foreigners. That puts that 80 arrests in 8 months into perspective.
That shows either the incompetence of Japanese police officers, or their true nonchalant attitude.
miss_oikawa
What! Prostitution in Kabukicho?? When did that start??
NotThe One
There is literally a shop for men to have sex with women next to or behind the koban on the corner of Yasukuni dori and Meiji dori in Shinjuku ni chome.
gaijintraveller
How many of the 80 were working in yakuza-owned establishments? The answer seems to be zero because were are told they were arrested on suspicion of prostitution for allegedly soliciting customers on the streets. Is it not equally against the law in yakuza-owned establishments? Does anyone else suspect they were arrested for being freelancers instead of choosing to work for the yaks? Would it seem possible that the yakuza complained to the police about girls working the streets, and the police obliged by arresting them?
John
There’s no real reason for prostitution to be illegal. it should be done legally and openly, under regulatory control to ensure women gets regular health checks and pay taxes just as everyone else.
Making it illegal doesn’t stop anything but causes illegal groups to own these type of activities, they may sometimes force unwilling women to do it, and higher health risks for the public.
Stephen Chin
In Tokio if one is hungry, one eats! In Tokio if one has no money one goes to the Kabukicho District to get money to eat.
How? Any how? And get arrested because one is hungry?
Why does Tokio not have a special district as in Dutch and German cities and in many countries where an hungry individual can go to get money to eat without getting arrested?
didou
Tens of videos are showing what is going on in Shinjuku, Okubo and has been going for nearly one year. Tens of young girls standing every 5 to 10m waiting for customers, I do not see them sollicitating anyone. The only streets hookers sollicitating customers are the foreign hookers. Nobody do seem to be bothered by the police. I am sure the police only acts when they see people going to hotels and having a proof of financial transactions. Some police officers are playing the customers. The police will crack down that as it has been spreading too much.
shogun36
Disgusting. Classless. Distasteful. I’m speechless.
So, where EXACTLY are all of these women hanging out?
I want to be very sure I don’t accidentally bump into these women while they are working.
Asking for a neighbor.
N. Knight
Not sure what is worse... the prostitution or that you choose to stay in that utter dump, Roppongi.
falseflagsteve
Fatrain
The man you mention is immoral. He needs to contain his urges, he made a vow to his good lady wife and it is his duty to uphold those at all times. He is weak and lacks discipline, this type of man is one of the reasons this illegal activity is prevalent.
Am an who does not put his wife first and even considers doing this cannot be trusted in any part of his life.
Mr Kipling
That's 10 arrests per month. Most nights there are 40 or more women waiting for customers around that park area.
So not much of a crackdown.
Mark
Make it Legal, collect the taxes instead of spending the tax payers money policing.
Jim
Many of these prostitutes enter the industry just to make ends meet. Some are forced into it. Some have no other option. If they go around arresting prostitutes then male prostitutes, male customers and all escort services workers should also be held accountable… not only women prostitutes! This all comes down to the fact that there are certain big people who want to monopolize the prostitution sector by having their high priced prostitutes dominate the market where the pimps run the prostitutes and bull of the money goes to the operators behind the scenes. So they arrested independent prostitutes who work by themselves and get the full amount of money from customers for themselves. There are certainly some high level people in the police who authorize these arrests getting their fair share from the owners of the so called organized sex industry. Their goal is to remove independent sex workers from the streets so that the organized company ones can work without competition.
Elvis is here
That's not for you to say. Walk in a man's shoes for a distance before you cast judgment
That oversimplifies a complicated topic. The posts above for legalisation/ tolerance is the way forward. Banning prostitution clearly doesn't work.
It just makes people involved unhappy.
It just satisfies the conservative side of the electorate. you see.
Paustovsky
Who, ironically, are the most likely to require their services.
Elvis is here
indeed. All that fire and brim stone rhetoric makes one peckish.
It also serves foil to one's weakness; Forgive me Father for I have sinned....
u_s__reamer
Legalize them and collect the taxes (ditto for drugs).
kaimycahl
@falseflagsteve If you say a *man made a vow to his good lady wife and it is his duty to uphold those at all times.* Shouldn't it go both ways? What is vow to uphold her duty to her husband!!! IF there is an agreement then they are both upholding their vow!
Fatrain
The man you mention is immoral. He needs to contain his urges, he made a vow to his good lady wife and it is his duty to uphold those at all times. He is weak and lacks discipline, this type of man is one of the reasons this illegal activity is prevalent.
Am an who does not put his wife first and even considers doing this cannot be trusted in any part of his life.
proxy
Inflation is organized robbery, by governments that steals money from citizens. With inflation rising faster that wages in Japan, a lot more people get more desperate to make end meet.
The worse the economy is, the better looking and cheaper prostitutes are. It is a better index than the famous "Big Mac" index.
kaimycahl
So the male hostess are nothing but corporate pimps!
nosuke
Prostitution is the oldest profession out of all.
quercetum
They are two different venues. One is a place where you pay , say ¥5000 an hour to sit, talk and drink with a handsome guy, host, or a beautiful and pretty girl, hostess. You have to buy drinks that are expensive fir yourself and the host/ hostess.
The other is an idol group, a boy band live concert where you pay money to shake hands or to talk to them for less than a minute or pay to take a picture with them, a two shot.
The places for these concerts or performances are of course not at the Budokan where the Beatles performed but the opposite, cheap places in Akihabara, Shinjuku, Shimokitazawa and so on. None of them are illegal; they just perform literally underground.
And
ClanPsi
Disgusting. Don't arrest the poor girls for trying to survive. If you have to arrest anyone, arrest the men taking advantage of them.
Thomas Twatt
That’s disgraceful.
Er, which hotel was it? (Asking for a friend.)
TT
CS
I would think 80 is nothing over the course of 9 months.
People go to Kabukicho to party, everybody doing everything is a big part of the party.
Kubukicho will never be a squeaky clean place for families to enjoy a night out.
nukkuheddo
in Kabukichou? really? I asked a cop for directions to the red light district...
Kurisu
How many pimps and johns were arrested? Or are we just targeting the women...?
TaiwanIsNotChina
Clearly a valuable use of police time /s
falseflagsteve
Elvis
Im not religious. You don’t have to be religious to have morals and not indulge in illegal activities and betray your loved ones and possibly bring shame to your whole family.
Chibakun
How are you supposed to collect tax revenue for cash in hand business?
Pia
Japan's respect for women is pretty low. Kabukicho is filled with places for prostitution. The thing is that they're grey zone, because they're supported by the Yakuza, who work with the government to maintain peace. A lot of these red-light district places all also have forced servitude and human trafficking. I personally have known several foreign people who've had their passports taken away. Some of the women (and men) come from other countries and are forced to stay in Japan indefinitely. The reason the women were arrested on the street is because they don't have pimps and aren't working under the heirarchical system. It's the same reason that Bousozoku get arrested; because they're not orderly or working under the strict rules of the Yakuza. Personally, however, I prefer the Yakuza to East LA in California. Because they provide a controlled environment for crime, criminals working alone have a hard time in Japan. It makes crime a lot easier to control. That being said, crime is just that, crime, and it shouldn't be condoned, or it should be recognized as having a role in society. By opening up the conversation, we could begin to see how to improve certain aspects of the situation, tax things, and make certain things illegal (like human trafficking). The Japanese government's involvement with the Yakuza is something that wasn't even touched upon in the article. It's like the elephant in the room.
Pia
I want to add to the first sentence that I meant this in the context of men not being chastised at all for going after prostitutes and making Kabukicho one of the richest areas in Tokyo, while the women re being arrested. I think it would be a cold day in Hell for men to get arrested for going into their favorite lingerie pub...
Elvis is here
Japan is a Buddhist country. Buddhists do not look down upon prostitutes. If they choose to practice dharma, they have an equal, if not better chance to become enlightened.
SaikoPhysco
I'd be willing to bet that all off those 80 arrested women were not affiliated with a Yakuza group. Also, the Yakuza does not want prostitution to be fully decriminalized / legalized because they would not easily be able to control it if it were.
Paul
By legalizing prostitution it would make it safer, cleaner, and pimp free. Win win!!!
Elvis is here
Confucianism, Taoism and Shintoism that make up the base of Japanese culture do not encourage strong moral principles regarding sex. In fact Shinto faith does not regard sex as a taboo. As clearly illustrated by the phallic festivals etc that tourists tend to gawp at.
Sexual restrictions and the association of shame or guilt with sex is a typically Judeo-Christian or Muslim characteristic.
And
The common image of prostitutes as a special group of outcasts walking the streets may not have arisen until the Victorian era in England, when health officials blamed them for the spread of diseases.
It seems prostitution here only turned out the way it has since foreign influences started to take hold.
2020hindsights
falseflagsteve
Maybe consider that they don't share your morals and that they consider what they are doing is morally fine.
If you don't want to engage with prostitutes because it is against your morals, fine. But be aware that not everyone shares your morals.
2020hindsights
falseflagsteve
So where do you get your morals from? How do you determine that selling sex is immoral?
Yubaru
I will bet you dont know the laws regarding these establishments. There is absolutely NOTHING illegal about them, nor the services they provide.
Your definition of "sex" and the Japanese legal definition, with regards to these establishments, is more than likely something totally different. Anal "sex", oral "sex" and anything else, so long as there is no vaginal penetration is perfectly legal. I know, sounds strange, but that's the law!
Yubaru
This is a great question! In my opinion, it's not immoral. It's immoral to enslave or coerce the people into working in the industry, but if it is by one's own choice, there is nothing immoral to it.
Society decided to create laws that made it "illegal", for a host of reasons but here in Japan, they literally created a cottage industry by specifically "defining" what "sex" is allowable.
2020hindsights
Yubaru
So where do you get your morals from? How do you determine that selling sex is immoral?
Totally agree!
Jay
You are right, not sure why you are getting so many downvotes. I guess people love to see young girls turned into hookers? Not sure what is wrong with people.
starpunk
Isn't most of this business, along with the porn industry, drugs and gun smuggling under the control of the yaks?
Jay
Ahh, yes! Let's encourage young women to be prostitutes! That is the best thing for society.
Jay
I would argue that having wild uncontrolled sex with tons of strangers is though.
2020hindsights
Jay
Sex is not evil falseflag
Why?
2020hindsights
Jay
Decriminalise it. Better still legalise it. Then you can control and tax it, and every one will be happy.
Quite the opposite. If it is legal, it can be regulated and made safe for sex workers. Sex workers can be checked for diseases and have recourse to the law if something bad happens. You get none of that if prostitution is illegal.
girl_in_tokyo
There is nothing wrong or immoral about sex work. The real evil is a society that doesn't support young, single mothers or runaway teen girls or even homeless men, so that their only choice is to engage in work that they otherwise would not have chosen.
A rich society that ignores poverty and punishes people for being poor and desperate is the epitome of evil.
girl_in_tokyo
I've also often wondered why prostitution is illegal, but paying women to have sex in a porn movie is legal, and the people who watch her doing it judge her and absolve themselves.
As long as it is consensual, and the person doing it is not desperate or being manipulated, lied to, or controlled, there is nothing wrong with sex work. The real evil is people condemning sex workers while enjoying the fruits of their labor.
opheliajadefeldt
Sex work is legal in my country, Germany, where there are estimated to be 3,000 brothels across the country, 500 in Berlin alone. The sex trade is worth over € billion a year, legalisation has helped expand Germany’s sex trade, there are an estimated 400,000 sex workers, and around 1.2 million men. Personally I see nothing wrong with it and do not really care, what people choose to do with their lives is up to them, but never forget, countless thousands of them are used and abused by politicians and business leaders, who have total immunity from prosecution, as do the majority of men.
opheliajadefeldt
Sorry, this should read €11 billion a year.
Yubaru
Notice the difference between "turned into hookers" vs freedom of choice in becoming a sex worker?
Nothing immoral or wrong with it, freedom of choice! Dont be such a prude about it.
Yubaru
Is there such a thing as "controlled sex"?
Let me guess, you have problems with gambling, drinking, tobacco, fast-food, and sites like "Only Fans" too, just to name a few.
Just attempting to understand where you are coming from here with your comment.
Oh and question here, is it safe to assume then that you have no problems with people having all sorts of sex with one's they know then, just so long as they aren't strangers?
Yubaru
https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/978-1-80117-127-420221004/full/html
Keepyer Internetpoints
Why single out Japan? Prostitution has been and remains illegal in many places.
So a better question is, why is it illegal in so many places?
There are reasons, and none of them are good.
A common one (which applies to Japan) is simply politicians making life hard and miserable so that the people are too frustrated with life's basics to be bothered with how the politicians are lying and stealing. We see the hippocrisy with prostitution all the time. So many politicians say it should be and remain illegal, but these same ones get caught with prostitutes.
Sex really is one of life's basics and making it hard to get is a common means of control over the people. In the past you had to even be married to get it legally!
This is the same reason (among others) why non-pixelated porn is illegal. Its just throwing rubbish at the people to keep them down.
And if you partake in any of it, they can now label you a criminal, and thereby make you fearful of getting caught and thus, stay out of politics and out of their way.
There are more reason of course, but this is one that applies to Japan.
Even more than that though is probably to foster materialism. It pushes people to find happiness in being a consumer of products instead of what is a far more satisfying and human service. And people always dream that if they amass the right products they will finally be able to land the lover of their dreams.....an expensive necklace, car, shoes, make-up, etc. If that was all cut short by a simply direct exchange, it would be difficult for business to leach off us near as much as they currently do.
Yubaru
Ever take the time to stop and read the title of the page you are posting on? Not to mention the location of the subject of the article being discussed?
Not here!
Keepyer Internetpoints
I do. But stopping there and refusing to look at the wider picture always leads to wrong answers, via bad questions. This is obviously not an "only in Japan" thing.
I even see some people whining that they only go after the prostitutes and not the johns, but that too was common in my country as well, and for various reasons which are universal, such as the obvious fact its easier prove the prostitute was offering services by her words and actions, and very difficult to prove someone walking down the street who was accosted by the prostitute was looking for services. And on top of that its easier to bust and jail 1 prostitute than hunt down her multitude of customers. Cheap too.
So yeah, you gotta try to find a bigger picture always. Its a given or one is doomed to simple minded screed.
Yubaru
But for here, it is just a Japan thing and bringing any other countries into the discussion ends up in censorship.
commanteer
I don't recommend this, but if they really want to end street solicitation they should have undercover police posing as prostitutes who then arrest clients who agree to pay them. Once word gets out, men wouldn't want to take the risk of engaging with a street walker.
Of course, that would just drive more business to the established "massage" parlors and online services.
Jay
What a stupid question. I'm sure you would love to see your wife or young daughter getting railed by tons of random ojisan for a couple of yen then?
Jay
Controlled as in "showing restraint".
Gambling, drinking, tobacco, and fast food are great in moderation. Onlyfans? Not much of a fan myself. It encourages female laziness and male simpery which makes modern relationships unhealthy. There are numerous reasons to not support digital prostitution.
To answer your question, having all sorts of sex with people you know would be leagues better than having all sorts of sex with strangers. (not that I recommend either though)
I assume you would be fine with letting me pipe down your mom, wife, and daughter? Feel free to send me their line.
TaiwanIsNotChina
If it is their choice, why should anyone stop them? In any event, they won't be stopped until months after they go down this route.
Strangerland
I've never understood why paying for sex is illegal:
• You can give it away free
• For many people, it's their only way to get sex
• For many people, sex is literally the only thing of value they have. So they should be held down?
I think forced prostitution should be illegal. But wilful? It's always seemed ridiculous.
Keepyer Internetpoints
@ Strangerland
A rare point of agreement between us.
I explained this above.
And I will add to the list C-blocking, beaver damming, jealousy, trolling and schadenfreude. Basically those come from the same place as it does with some other mammals, such as wolves. People are animals, and very often give in to the worst things about being one, all the while making but BS smokescreen excuses about "humanity".
But those mostly are only offering support for these laws from the public. The reasons why politicians make these laws are more in line with what I said before and is about political control, leverage and making money.