crime

American father and son plead guilty to helping Ghosn flee Japan

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Let me guess, even if they pleaded guilty, the prosecutors will drag this on in the "trial". Because if their job here is done, they'll be back to doing nothing again. You know, 9-5.

-8 ( +17 / -25 )

Smart move. They’re cooking up something. It’s no secret how dirty the Japanese judicial system is.

-7 ( +24 / -31 )

After blabbing and showing off to magazines and media outlets all over the world, these two muppets could hardly deny what they did.

26 ( +35 / -9 )

Not really anything else to do, their situation is as dire as ever but probably they are hoping for a relatively fast trial.

27 ( +28 / -1 )

$1.3 million isnt much money between two. Especially when they have a big, expensive legal team to pay, and are looking at probably 2 years hard labor.

If Ghosn had a thread of decency left, he will look after these two once they are released. He should come back and have his day in court.

0 ( +24 / -24 )

nishikatToday 04:44 pm JST

Why all the haters of the Japanese criminal system? I'd much rather have the Japanese system in the US than the scam the US system presents to its own citizens. Japan 50 thousand prisoners vs the US's over 2 million. Japan may be mixed up in certain ways but in the US it's a real business.

It's not about the number of people in prison. That's the result, not the cause.

The problem with the justice system here is that it is not only borked set up, but completely wrong. Forced confessions in the form of hostage justice. In the end, the judge just taps out what the prosecutor wrote. Here in Japan, the judge doesn't give the verdict, the verdict is already delivered to him. Fair trial is the basic right. They were brought here already as guilty. Not as innoncent with suspicion of crossing the law. Straight away guilty.

3 ( +22 / -19 )

These 2 ex-green berets are true heroes.

They stand for what they believe, their motto: de oppresso liber

-14 ( +19 / -33 )

Forced confessions in the form of hostage justice. 

Sounds like North Korea justice. If I had that kind of fear I'd be out of Japan like yesterday if they torture you like that.

4 ( +22 / -18 )

Cooperation with the court, pleading guilty, they are probably hoping for a suspended sentence. Probably the father takes all responsibility and gets an unsuspended sentence in an effort to get his son a lighter, suspended sentence so he can go back home. The father already did time in an American jail for some kind of financial crime as a government contractor, so he can handle another year or two in a prison here.

16 ( +20 / -4 )

This has nothing to do with 99% conviction rate. They helped Ghosn to escape and they got caught. Now they are victim of Ghosn who is free, laughing and pleating to be innocent.

11 ( +24 / -13 )

hoping for a suspended sentence

That would be a good deal if they paid millions. I'd go for that.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Well everything here is Japanese size. You know bento, room, pillow, dress down to toilet. Prison life going to be tough for both of them. They plead guilty to avoid further interrogation. They only question left for investigator is how did you do that? Just for documentation purpose.

-6 ( +7 / -13 )

I suppose they’re thinking real hard in their detention cells if the $1.3 million was worth spending a year or two in a prison in a foreign land.

15 ( +19 / -4 )

Rather than hiring that expensive Boston law firm to fight the extradition, the Taylors should have come to Japan on their own. They would have gotten 1 year suspended if that, instead of a failed attempt to resist extradition followed by a huge US legal bill, and ensuring that the Tokyo prosecutors won't cut them any slack. The arguments Ghosn uses to bailjump and remain outside of Japanese jurisdiction are only good for someone who has escaped. They are not a defense because they are not presented in Court, just an excuse to justify the flight. Japan has a 99% conviction rate because the prosecutors don't indict unless they are 99% sure that they'll get a conviction. The Taylors should have bypassed Boston and retained a Tokyo criminal defense firm from the get-go.

8 ( +19 / -11 )

3 years very light sentence for them. And why Ghosn is still free ???

-2 ( +18 / -20 )

Maybe Ghosn will fly back to Japan to whisk them away.

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

Let me guess, even if they pleaded guilty, the prosecutors will drag this on in the "trial". 

Yes. Is that a bad thing? In Japan you still receive a trial even if you plead guilty. It's one of the safeguards of the Japanese system missing in the Anglo world.

A suspect in Japan cannot be convicted solely based on a confession and a guilty plea is treated as nothing more than a confession. The prosecutor still needs to present their case and the judge will have the final say on whether the Taylors are actually guilty or not, regardless of how they plead.

10 ( +20 / -10 )

 In Japan you still receive a trial even if you plead guilty. It's one of the safeguards of the Japanese system missing in the Anglo world.

People in Japan plead guilty chained to a chair, without lawyer, on privation of liberty.

That kind of confessions can never be used in a modern justice system.

A confession must be done from your freedom and with lawyers to assist you.

-7 ( +15 / -22 )

"that he understated his compensation in Nissan's financial statements" Presumably, CEOs are not involved at this level, and any competent forensic auditor is going to find a paper trail. In addition, if it can't be demonstrated that he actually received funds and evaded tax, which was the initial charge, what crime was committed that justified his treatment in custody? I guess these guys know from the get go that the faster they started their sentences, the sooner they'd finish, so why fight...

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

These 2 ex-green berets are true heroes.

Fact check: Peter Taylor isn't a former Green Beret. He never even served in the military.

And Michael Taylor is the polar opposite of a hero. He's had numerous run-ins with the law (sexual assault, tampering with evidence) and was convicted and sentenced to two years in prison for procurement fraud. He has forever sullied the reputation of the Green Berets and all of the U.S. military.

16 ( +23 / -7 )

The problem with the justice system here is that it is not only borked set up, but completely wrong. Forced confessions in the form of hostage justice. In the end, the judge just taps out what the prosecutor wrote. Here in Japan, the judge doesn't give the verdict, the verdict is already delivered to him. Fair trial is the basic right. They were brought here already as guilty. Not as innoncent with suspicion of crossing the law. Straight away guilty.

As if you are/were a judge or a prosecutor here in Japan

4 ( +11 / -7 )

Sounds like North Korea justice. If I had that kind of fear I'd be out of Japan like yesterday if they torture you like that.

Were Taylors tortured?

8 ( +15 / -7 )

These 2 ex-green berets are true heroes.

They stand for what they believe, their motto: de oppresso liber

How did the Taylors suddenly happen to face some unreasonable phenomena to believe and feel they must take actions? Japanese hostage justice system read through media? or through Ghosn's family?

5 ( +9 / -4 )

@kennyG

Won't you mind to Google "hostage justice" ?

You'll find Japan all over the results.

We all know for a fact that the j-justice is an Hostage Justice.

-10 ( +8 / -18 )

Now that they hsve pleaded guilty, how much money will the Japanese legal system (culture) try to scam out of them. It will.mo doubt be disproportionate and exorbitant.

-14 ( +5 / -19 )

Those who always play a trump with that Japan's 99% conviction rate probably love the society where everybody sues everybody, every lawyer recommends you sue anyway, have no idea about abuse of legalism.

I rather think Japanese prosecutors too passive

8 ( +15 / -7 )

Is there still a trial if they plead guilty? There should not be if there is, as they have already admitted to their crimes. I wonder if there was some sort of bargin if they plead guilty...Anyway Max ¥300,000 fine, and 3 Years is literally nothing for these fine gentleman. Look up their history. They are certified killers!

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Is there still a trial if they plead guilty? 

Why not. Who decides sentence if not.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

Ghosn is not free. He is in a prison called Beirut.

8 ( +14 / -6 )

99% conviction rate means nothing. The prosecutors know the law and don’t waste their time with cases that won’t end in a conviction. Prosecutors did not charge Gregory Gumo for murder, for this reason, even though it was obvious that he was guilty.

15 ( +18 / -3 )

It's so amazing the fixation of Ghosn when there are other cases like Gumo or Yevgeniy Vasilievich. If you want to commit a major crime, Japan is your best choice.

7 ( +12 / -5 )

I would be more than happy to exchange only 3 years of my life for 1.3 million. I guess that is why they pledge guilty.

10 ( +12 / -2 )

Yen?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Let's do some math here.Average salary in Japan is around 20 man for most people unless you work as a professional.The lucky ones sometimes get bonus.English teaching is about 25 man.

Subtract tax,rent,food,utility bills,miscellaneous and you have nothing left.And to make matters worse,many people slave till death living from hand to mouth.

If I had a chance to pull what the Tailors did..I would go for it.3 yrs in the slammer and maybe suspended for a mil $$$ what the heck..

13 ( +15 / -2 )

Ghosn is not free. He is in a prison called Beirut.

Ghosn is free, and not in prison. He lives in Beirut, Lebanon which has an advanced legal system that has integrity. I wish Mr. Ghosn a long, happy, phosperous life with his family, free from a hostage taking, blackmailing culture called Japan. (Incidently, Japan still owes Mr.Ghosn money for illegal detention).

As for the Taylors, true martyrs, and true hero's.

-11 ( +9 / -20 )

I would be more than happy to exchange only 3 years of my life for 1.3 million. I guess that is why they pledge guilty.

on paper it actually doesnt sound too bad. i'm guessing the illicit 'celebrity smuggling' business is on the rocks at the moment with COVID and minimal passenger aircraft and thus more vigilant security, and it will also take years to blow over and get back to profitable (low-risk) business.

i'm also guessing the $1.3m is no doubt squirreled away in some untouchable account so it cant be taken from the pair.

prison in Japan will be tough, sure, but i doubt it's "hard labor" in the concentration camp sense aka North Korea et al. Horiemon did 2.5 years and looks miles healthier post-incarceration than the mori tower izakaya yakiniku bloated mess he was before...in fact, the stint will give the pair some time to lose weight (if they need it, not sure), learn the language a bit and appreciate the pastime of reading. they look like they might be used to a strict scheduled regiment that prison would ensure them.

even if youre a successful "1000万" entrepreneur or expat in Tokyo living a relatively high life, that's still less than $100k USD before tax, and you still have to pay for food and accommodation! sure, they wont have the pleasure of beer or any other 'entertainment'--their hand will be their best friend for a few years--but it still sounds like a good deal on paper!

10 ( +13 / -3 )

Heros. Good men.

-9 ( +6 / -15 )

A suspect in Japan cannot be convicted solely based on a confession and a guilty plea is treated as nothing more than a confession. The prosecutor still needs to present their case and the judge will have the final say on whether the Taylors are actually guilty or not, regardless of how they plead.

Sounds good on paper. But how many of those who plead guilty are free? Very close to zero. 99.95% conviction rate is the goal, not justice. If the prosecutor convicts you, guilty or not, you are guilty. That's Japan's way. You can't change it with wishful thinking.

-4 ( +7 / -11 )

If Ghosn had a thread of decency left, he will look after these two once they are released. He should come back and have his day in court.

They signed for it, they knew the risks. You can't do an illegal job paid millions and then complain when there are consequences.

If they were clever enough they would have hidden in another country than US.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Is there still a trial if they plead guilty? 

Why not. Who decides sentence if not.

That would not be a trail. That would be "sentencing" A trial is to find out if someone is guilty or innocent. They already plead guilty..so there should be no trial. If the prosecutors "accept" the guilty plea, then it would not make sense to have a trail as they already admitted to their crime. If the proescutors do not accept the plea, then I think there is a trial. I was asking because I am not sure.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

"Maybe Ghosn will fly back to Japan to whisk them away."

FANTASTIC.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

@Peeping_Tom

"People in Japan plead guilty chained to a chair, without lawyer, on privation of liberty."

Its a fact well defined and documented by United Nations, Human Rights, JABA , lawyers, etc.

Go and watch the Ghosn movie, you'll be surprised:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKftGmjdZ7w

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

So the Japanese government hires them to go to Lebanon and kidnap Ghosn and bring him back.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Japanese court: How do you plead?

Taylors: Guilty

Japanese court: Oh! Okay, well, then we sentence you to.... clerk, what is the punishment for helping someone skip bail?

Clerk: There is no punishment.

Japanese court: What? Why not?

Clerk: Because there is no law.

Japanese court: ....

Taylors: Later, losers! leave Japan

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

Its a fact well defined and documented by United Nations, Human Rights, JABA , lawyers, etc.

Don't forget they drill holes in your knees

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

In the great escaped bitcoin is fine as long as Karpeles doesn't hold the wallets.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Huge change of tune from after Ghosn escaped when people celebrated his escape and called the Taylors heroes.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Interesting that not even one comment in this thread says anything about USA, which arrested these two US-citizens and extradited them to Japan.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@Alan Harrison Sadly, not everyone in Lebanon gets the same treatment as Mr Ghosn.

https://www.dailysabah.com/world/mid-east/i-wish-i-would-die-syrians-tortured-in-lebanon-report-reveals

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Japanese court: Oh! Okay, well, then we sentence you to.... clerk, what is the punishment for stuffing someone inside a comfy, huge black box, bypass immigration and smuggle that same person out of the country?

Clerk, i.e. you: Ahem.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Only 3 years in Jail? They are laughing as Ghosn will make sure they get millions for their work.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Beautiful !!..

Go Japan justice, jail awaits for criminals !!..

I love Ghosnbeliever's tears with my coffee in the morning..

Lol!!..

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Not surprised at all the support the two Americans have on here, and the usual hysteria about how these two were 'tortured' by the biased and xenophobic Japanese justice system to coerce confession.

I mean, I'm pretty sure it was those two caught on camera at the Japanese airport, and I'm pretty sure there's a money trail where the two were compensated handsomely (over $1 million USD). Doesn't take an IQ of 45 to see that they are clearly guilty of what they are accused of.

I absolutely guarantee, were this a case of two Japanese citizens who somehow were able to helping one of their fellow citizens escape the U.S. justice system, the same people here who automatically side with any entity against the Japanese government, would then be angrily calling for the two Japanese citizen's heads, how dare they break the laws in America, extradite them and send them to prison for many years, etc.

Double standards and hypocrisy, always and forever.

2 ( +10 / -8 )

1.3 million. Was that on top of expenses? Probably not, maybe just a little more than enough to cover it. They paid a lot of people for the operation. Whatever's left split 3 ways at least.

They're probably funding their defense digging deep into their savings. Facilitating the escape of someone charged with being paid a ton of money and not declaring it properly.

They may be stupid heroes to some but seem to me just stupid stooges

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Only 3 years in Jail? They are laughing as Ghosn will make sure they get millions for their work.

You mean ghosn doesn't pay right taxes so he could reward crooks aftey they've done the dirty work already?

Ghosn is most probably laughing at them for their stupidity, purported security experts helping him escape to a country with no extradition agreement with Japan but themselves staying in a country with one

1 ( +4 / -3 )

These Soldiers of Fortune gambled, and lost ... period!

2 ( +5 / -3 )

No surprise that they’ve pled guilty, since they’ve never denied what they did. However, I’d be satisfied with a suspended sentence/time served in return for throwing the Ghosn family under the bus. Ghosn lied about his family’s involvement. His wife sought out the Taylor’s. Daughter met with them before the escape. Son-in-law wired the money. And what do the Taylor’s know about Koseman? I never believed his story that his family was threatened. Hard to believe his story when over $200K was deposited into his bank account. He’s the only one of the conspirators that I’d like to see locked up.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

""Suspects in Japan are interrogated without their lawyers present and are often denied bail before trial. Japan's conviction rate is 99%.""

99% conviction rate because suspects are interrogated, tortured, threatened, possibly beaten before their lawyers assistance, suspects don't stand a chance , the investigators will record all the hours long and the suspects lawyer has NO access to these tapes to prepare for trial.

This goes against all the norms of having a fair trial, and guarantees conviction.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

That’s probably the smartest move these dumb dumbs have made so far. In Japan you need to play by their rules: play dumb, say sorry, act contrite and lower your head and possibly cry. I guarantee they will get a lesser sentence just for that.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

If they're smart, they'll eat a large slice oh humble pie, bow their heads, cry a bit and promise they've learned their lessons.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@Mark - I would sort of exclude the "tortured bit", but yes, some Japanese Police can be pretty bad, yet on the other-hand, like other Police forces Worldwide, some can be pretty good too.

Following an RTA, I was interviewed, as if I had caused the accident - even though I was in the right, and they knew it! The key thing under such a situation, is to stick to the script of exactly what you are certain about - keep it factual, don't waiver, don't add stuff, minimalize, and don't ever let there be any doubt about your statement - keep to the facts. Being interviewed by the Police is a Stressful thing... it's lengthy, and repetitive - they ask the same questions over and over again, maybe slightly differently, but ... that's just their process. If you're on the right side of the Law, stick to the simple script I've mentioned - and you'll be fine.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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