Ghosn's continued detention keeps Japan's justice system under microscope

Oops! Bet they didn’t want this.

Come J-""justice""  START a damned trial!

Time to put up or SHUT UP!!

"Don't ever compromise on your innocence," here is the quote of the year,

dont admit to anything you didnt do, mental torture whatever they throw at you, make the prosecutors do their jobs and compile evidence, its their job to prove your guilt, not your job to prove your innocent. innocent until proven guilty in any proper democracy.

Every time i read about this it makes me so freaking mad. If ghosn broke the law, he needs to be punished. But this prolonged detention is rediculous. And not a single japanese executive arrested. It's times like these when i harbor so much hatred and animosity towards japan and its many idiotic ways of doing anything. They deserve to be shamed and have everything bad happen tp their backwards little society.

This has been a total disaster.

I’m dead certain there are people who have thrown Ghosn under the bus for their own ends here, and the reality of the justice system allowing a man yet to stand trial to go through this crap is just a major embarrassment for Japan as a supposedly lawful state.

Fortunately this couldn’t have happened to a richer person, but just imagine if it were happening to people of lesser means...

The never ending BS that Nissan makes up, first it was "look at all the homes he has and all the spending"... yet the home were owned be Nissan... then it was "ohh he has secret files in his safe"... This sort of spot light you know 100% he is getting a suspended sentence and might pay a fine.... the real losers? The shareholders and Japan in general. Nissan's management will now be taken over and all C levels replaced.

Apparently prosecutors have now issued a subpeona for Santa's list to find out whether Carlos has indeed been naughty or nice. Not entirely unexpected. The question is whether it's inadmissible hearsay or allowed as a contemporaneous business record.

Somebody should drive one of those megaphone vans outside his detention center and broadcast in his native tongue that people are rallying for him, and to hang tough, don't give in, etc. I would personally love to drive the car.

I hear now that the prosecutors are looking into reports that Carlos wore shoes in the houses owned by Nissan..........Oh the shame !!

I have noticed that Suga is particularly quiet on this. You would think the government spokesman would have something to say when the CEO of 3 companies is held without charge or conviction. The legal system is a joke, a bad joke. Beating a employee to death suspended sentence. Take ¥10 from a box, year in jail. Gang rape suspended sentance, take toilet paper ¥200,000 yen. What a sad state of affairs.

It would be extremely difficult and time consuming for the prosecutors to collect evidence from France/ Brazil/Lebanon, who are siding Ghons and not cooperating with Japan.

Don't think siding, Nissan concocted charges, got prosecutors and government on side with no evidence, now the injustice system has to try to appear just. They can't when exposed.

They will convict him with no evidence of, give a suspected sentence and a fine and hope it all goes away in a year or so

Otherwise .. egg on a lot of faces.

I can't see Japan on the world stage during the 2029 rugby world cup and 2020 Olympics with Carlos in prison

If they let him out and let him leave Japan he could still be convinced in abstentia.

If and when he ever gets out I hope he will sue the Prosecutors to hell for unlawful imprisonment. He will turn the tables on these obnoxious rats.

Or on second thoughts if I were him I would just find a way to escape from these god forsaken islands and get back to France or somewhere without an extradition with japan. He'll never set foot in japan again that's for sure.

This system has been around since 1908 and none of us gave it much thought until a CEO of a big auto maker became subjected to it?

One must always remember that Japan is NOT the USA or any other country... it is Japan.

As for Japanese laws, it is somewhat based upon the US and much of Britain. However, the Civil and Criminal laws are not necessarily "separate" in their investigation. The investigation by both is extremely intense and as a whole, they do not indict or detain unless there was enough "cause" and supporting evidence. That is especially true for foreigners with such deep involvement within a major Japanese corporation. And, this case is heavily within the "criminal" jurisdiction which may involve many foreign and domestic prominent figures.

The problem is as with US, the process takes extremely long since all of defendants declaration must be collaborated and ascertained. They cannot afford an international scandal.

In this case, it is not just a corporate executive standing in front of a camera and apologizing for a misconduct.

The outcome will affect all foreign executives hired by Japanese corporations and the kind of deals they make, especially when that deal can affect foreign relations and massive transfer of unreported and suspicious funds out of Japan.

Fortunately this couldn’t have happened to a richer person, but just imagine if it were happening to people of lesser means...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYJpc2y37oU&t=892s

I had that yesterday in my recommended videos.

Nobody cares if Japan is not the US or France. You saw the French rioting by the thousands and you think holding this guy is going to help Japanese business relations you are out of your mind. He has been there long enough that they are showing their cards. They are trying to take the company back by orchestrating a coup without thinking that other people are going to assume they set him up from the very beginning to get the company back after it started turning a profit. If the UN starts investigating Japan they are going to have even more trouble because they are already in trouble for all the whaling announcements. The scientists don't even actually know how many of the whales are left and the issues with TEPCO have still been unresolved. All those people dying from cancer from radiation exposure and nothing has been done to the executives anywhere near this level.

As for Japanese laws, it is somewhat based upon the US and much of Britain. 

No it isn't. It is based more in the Germanic model. Just like school uniforms.

It would be extremely difficult and time consuming for the prosecutors to collect evidence from France/ Brazil/Lebanon, who are siding Ghons and not cooperating with Japan.

A long article highlighting the weaknesses of the archaic Japanese justice system.

Your response is to blame foreigners.

How about addressing the question? How can Japan reform it's broken and corrupt criminal justice system?

who are siding Ghons and not cooperating with Japan.

Japan is showing itself as not deserving cooperation. This is not an issue of "siding" with the suspect. It's an issue of the suspect being given a proper chance of defending himself against the allegations. That includes access to a legal team that can build a defense and fight the charges, if deemed necessary.

Japan's system undermines this principle by denying access to lawyers and keeping the suspect locked up for prolonged periods for relentless interrogations of a team of interrogators verus one single powerless individual. Bullying is part and parcel of Japanese culture.

It would be extremely difficult and time consuming for the prosecutors to collect evidence from France/ Brazil/Lebanon, who are siding Ghons and not cooperating with Japan.

Did you even read the article?

How about addressing the question? How can Japan reform it's broken and corrupt criminal justice system?

This article is not objective.   Mind you it is Ghosn who broke the law not the prosecutors.  If you don't want detention, abide by the rule.

It would be extremely difficult and time consuming for the prosecutors to collect evidence from France/ Brazil/Lebanon, who are siding Ghons and not cooperating with Japan.

In the real world, countried would put in a request via embassies or interpol to investigate.

This article is not objective.  Mind you it is Ghosn who broke the law not the prosecutors. If you don't want detention, abide by the rule.

He has not been tried yet. Maybe it is prosecutors who are violating Japans constitution (Art. 34).

In most countries Prosecutor and Defense are Equal and Judge and Jury are at the top, it seems in Japan out of balance with Police answering to Prosecutor.

In most countries Prosecutor and Defense are Equal and Judge and Jury are at the top, it seems in Japan out of balance with Police answering to Prosecutor.

Yes. It would seem that in Japan the prosecutor has become the judge, and the judge has become a rubber stamper.

The constitution does say that police and prosecutors should liase closely on cases. This does not appear to be happening now.

In the real world, countried would put in a request via embassies or interpol to investigate.

Obviously FranceBrazilLebanon are not cooperating, which would influence negatively Japanese public. Japan had good business and investment relations with Brazil and France.  Shame.

He has not been tried yet.

So what is your complaint?

Maybe it is prosecutors who are violating Japans constitution (Art. 34).

Prosecutors are acting according to both the Criminal Procedure Code and the Constitution.

Obviously FranceBrazilLebanon are not cooperating, which would influence negatively Japanese public.

Has Japan made a request through intopol yet?

I'm most countries, innocent until proven guilty is more important than what the piblic (and the Japanese public) think.

Japan had good business and investment relations with Brazil and France. Shame.

Shame Indeed.

As for Japanese laws, it is somewhat based upon the US and much of Britain. 

I don't think so. Habeas Corpus (1215 AD) is the crux of rule of law In the UK. (And USA).

Even tomorrow in the UK (Christmas Day) there will be Magistrate Judges sitting, so that a person's detention without charge cannot go beyond 36 hours.

This article is not objective.  Mind you it is Ghosn who broke the law not the prosecutors. If you don't want detention, abide by the rule.

And there you demonstrate the de facto rejection of the concept of innocent until proven guilty. That is the way the Japanese justice system works and precisely the point that this article demonstrates. In Japan you are guilty until proven innocent.

You may find it hard to accept any criticism of Japan, but this is one area where you should take a good look at what is in front of you and accept that it is bad and corrupt and needs change.

Japan's justice system should work for Japan's interests, as simple as that. Japan can't be intimidated, harassed, and bullied by any other justice systems. One size doesn't fit all.

AKie: Japan's justice system should work for Japan's interests, as simple as that. Japan can't be intimidated, harassed, and bullied by any other justice systems. One size doesn't fit all.

The international interest in this case is similar to - but probably even less intense - US during the oj Simpson trial or the litvinko case in Britain .

There was a tacit awareness of those around Ghosn, and obviously of those involved with him of his supercilious peculations.

His culpability is not in question.

And Japan's justice system will not change to suit public opinion.

it is entrenched in the constitution

Live with it,

Japan's justice system should work for Japan's interests, as simple as that. 

its not in Japanese interest to be held in detention indefinitely, forcing confessions from many that are innocent. Democracies are about human rights, freedom of speech, Japan justice system does basically the opposite. You have experienced prosecutors pressuring inexperience citizens to make false confessions, yet you cant have lawyers present to advise and guide you when prosecutors abuse their powers. Its been done in the past which is why as of next year interogations have to be recorded.

From Wall Street Journal:

Carlos Ghosn, a Victim of Old Japan

Like Putin’s Russia, a shrinking, declining country grabs control over a domestic auto maker.

Carlos Ghosn has remained in a Japanese jail cell since Nov. 19 over a rolling series of suspicions that allowed the defrocked Nissan leader to be held under Japanese law without being charged, convicted or offered the opportunity of bail.

His original detention concerned a technical question of whether his deferred compensation as head of the Nissan-Renaultalliance needed to be disclosed in Japan. Then arose the matter of homes Nissan maintained for his use. Now comes a question about what the Journal calls a “personal derivative contract.”

[...]

Since we make a point of not anthropomorphizing corporations, we’re not going to allege a lack of gratitude on the part of Nissan management and the Japanese establishment. Even if Mr. Ghosn had walked on water, they might have resorted to inventive criminal suspicions against him if that’s what it took to allow a fading Japan to reclaim control of its now-resurrected national champion. 

If they could get away with it. The rule of law in Japan perhaps is not what many of us casually assumed it was. It turns out to be a lot more Putinesque. (Here’s where you send me your tweets and emails saying I have it wrong: The whole world, including the U.S., is sliding toward Putinism.)

This is first time I realize how bad the Japanese justice system .How can you keep detent someone for so long with bail. For such an advance country is a shameful and immoral practice.you look at recent example in Asia .The Malaysia gverent have found the former prime minister and his other arty member for corruption and mid use of country fund ,for such a crime it almost like treason ,but they were not detent and we're out on bail still can doing their work until the date for court trial so what the hell is going on in Japan such an immoral practice of Justice .He can't even out on bail .The prosecutor are just a bunch of idiot .If they said they carry out their work .I don't think so .I think more like they just bunch of losers don't know much about justice misuse the power .Japan cannot become a responsible international player if their archaic justice system not revised to reflect the time of today .Japan shall have no roll in international .The Ghost case really show the true injustice of the system.I read about a innocent man being jal for wrongful prosecution .Well if those prosecutor going to said I am just doing my job .I think same should applied to the prosecutor mid carriage of Justice ,those prosecutor should commit suicide for their wrongful case since you said you doing your job ,someone innocent went to jail luckily new technology proof his innocent ,therefore those prosecutors should comit Japanese style sucide for their immoral act.

"It would be extremely difficult and time consuming for the prosecutors to collect evidence from France/ Brazil/Lebanon, who are siding Ghons and not cooperating with Japan."

if there was not enough evidence, why in the hell to arrest him at the beginning?

i love japan so much as a foreigner, visited twice or three times a year. i might have

to turn my interest to other more civilized place to visit. i know there is dirt all around the world, but compare to "so call" modern japan you would expected more civilization here.

This system has been around since 1908 and none of us gave it much thought until a CEO of a big auto maker became subjected to it?

Wrong, folks here, well those of us who knew this, have discussed it on jt countless numbers of times, throughout the past.

Its just you and others finally being made aware of it because the mainstream media is finally picking it up overseas.

Japan's justice system should work for Japan's interests, as simple as that.

That is not justice, that is the law of the mob. And that is bad for business.

As the Guardian wrote:

The justice minister, Takashi Yamashita, said foreign criticism of the length of Ghosn’s detention, during which he has been interrogated without his lawyers present, was “unwarranted”. But experts said the prosecutors’ decision to re-arrest him reflected poorly on the country’s criminal justice system. “The Japanese penal system has been revealed to the wider world. It is not necessarily Japan’s best side and this is not good for business,” said Lionel Vincent, a Tokyo-based lawyer.

His case is drawing attention to the criminal justice system in Japan, where there is no presumption of innocence and the accused can be held for months before trial. The system, sometimes called "hostage justice," has come under fire from human rights advocates.

It's about time this criminal justice system brought in people attention, Japan draw more foreigners than ever in recent years. Lengthly detention without charge is one of many things that most of those foreigners don't aware.

you can't just say whatever you want and not allow a defence. That's not how justice works mkay?

And Japan's justice system will not change to suit public opinion. it is entrenched in the constitution

Live with it,

actually Japan interrogation techniques arent entrenched i the consititution, they found to be corrupt and flawed and new compulsory video of interrogations is the result of changes that have been brought about by the government. hopefully Ghosn fiasco has exposed Japan to the world may even bring about more change, Japaense are the ones that suffer the most from this draconian system, not gaijin, hopefully they wont have to "live with it" for too much longer.

In most countries Prosecutor and Defense are Equal and Judge and Jury are at the top, it seems in Japan out of balance with Police answering to Prosecutor.

Most countries? Unlikely. Quite a number of countries do not have a jury system or only have jury trials for a limited range of crimes.

France has jury trials only for felonies and in 2013 it reduced the scope of jury trials. Even in Britain, seen as the home of the jury system, jury trials are much more circumscribed than in the US. Here's what Wikipedia says on this subject. Other sources say much the same thing.

Only the United States makes routine use of jury trials in a wide variety of non-criminal cases. Other common law legal jurisdictions use jury trials only in a very select class of cases that make up a tiny share of the overall civil docket (like malicious prosecution and false imprisonment suits in England and Wales), but true civil jury trials are almost entirely absent elsewhere in the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_trial

semperfiDec. 25  01:43 am JST

His culpability is not in question.

Then why hasn't this case already been brought to court?

And Japan's justice system will not change to suit public opinion.

Why not, if a majority wants change? Isn't that what elections are for?

it is entrenched in the constitution

Live with it,

Right, because no one should ever criticise practices entrenched in the customs, laws and constitutions of other countries, should they.