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Ghosn's wife says he is suffering 'harsh' treatment in detention center

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By Liana B Baker and Mike Spector

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If he is enjoying/enduring the same conditions-including food-as the other inmates he han't complain.

Other than the whole imprisoned for months without having been tried nor found guilty of any crime thing.

Or is that complaining unreasonable too?

24 ( +36 / -12 )

I just saw the denied daily medication part as well. If this is true that is absolutely insane.

20 ( +22 / -2 )

The more pressure the better! And HOPEFULLY it will work. I am just wondering when Macron (sp?) is going to get off his arse and start making it an international incident here and put more pressure on Abe to act!

19 ( +36 / -17 )

@DG

"... he isn't being treated any more "harshly" than any other detainee in a J Detention Centre,"

That's not really true. Most of the other inmates confess, even to lies, as a means to end their abuse and suffering. Ghosn has shown the will power not to give in. That's why his suffering is continuing. How's that for "justice"?

19 ( +22 / -3 )

And all that rice-based only diet in the detention center will induce type 2 diabetes.

My condolences.

18 ( +30 / -12 )

I think many of us here who are frustrated with this case see the injustices as being perpetrated on not only foreigners but on Japanese as well. Strangerland above describes the system quite well.

One thing I found quite disturbing is that when Ghosn's family inquired about whether he was in the infirmary or not the authorities refused to answer. To me that is simply barbaric.

Ghosn is a high profile individual and that is probably why the justice system here is facing further scrutiny.

18 ( +23 / -5 )

Regardless the use modern technologies, Japan is not a modern country. The culture of Japan has evolved very little in the last 200 years.

The injustice system is still based on a bureaucrat V’s commoner structure. If one is arrested for a crime they are guilty until proven innocent and treated like dirt to pressure them into a confession. The Japanese lawyers must be really bad at their job if they have to stoop so low as to force confessions. If they are so convinced he is guilty, they should be busy building a case against him and not spending all their time harassing him into making a confession.

17 ( +20 / -3 )

and being denied his daily medication

You have got to be kidding me!!!

16 ( +20 / -4 )

A broken system that's lost sight of its stated Aims that being justice. It's focus is on carrears and "face". Its fragile sence of self worth won't even admit a miscarriage of justice. Will not allow even the slightest steps towards a fairer more transparent 21st century system. A pathetically child like, selfish system that relies on forced confessions is something to be feared not applauded.

15 ( +26 / -11 )

I've been to-and-froing about commenting on any of these threads, but here we are ...

While I totally support his wife supporting him, he isn't being treated any more "harshly" than any other detainee in a J Detention Centre, regardless of nationality (casual systemic racism aside). I'm not advocating the treatment he / all are receiving, I'm just saying I don't believe he's being singled out for a harsher-than-regular regime.

TBH, I wouldn't even call it "harsh" ... more like "austere" ... and isolated.

I won't mention that he apparently has a larger cell and a bed .. oh, wait ... I just did ,-)

I "am" surprised that he's being interrogated by police while in DC. IME, the police normally wrap that up while you're detained in a police station holding cell (where it's usual to remain for 23 days). I thought DC was more about awaiting trial after indictment? Ironically, they may even be displaying a bit of leniency by keeping him in DC rather than a regular police cell (those places "are" harsh). Just as an aside, I spent 11 months in a DC due to the appeal process in Japan (Supreme Court appeals especially take a long time).

IMHO, the prosecutors will never get a confession from Carlos. He's simply not the type of person to cave in to verbal / mental abuse, or any implied threat of physical abuse (I did undergo "physical abuse" once, but TBH I was being very disrespectful at the time, so ... reap what you sow).

I do believe that J-Justice has bitten off more than it's used to chewing, and that they've now gone too far to back down. I believe that Carlos will be imprisoned. For the record, I really hope he isn't, as I think his alleged crimes pale in comparison to many other high-profile corporate cases in recent years.

13 ( +17 / -4 )

Everybody gets treated the same in detention there is no special millionaire treatment so she can complain all she wants its really not that bad...

Being locked up for months without having been tried for, nor found guilty of a crime is 'not that bad'.

Got it. Seems legit.

13 ( +18 / -5 )

For everyone defending the Japanese system, one simple question:

Give me ONE good reason that a suspect can be interrogated WITHOUT their lawyer present and WITHOUT MANDATORY recording of the interrogation!!

There is NO reason, other than to coerce / extract a confession!!

Period!!

And a system that is set up with that in mind does not care about justice, only convicting!!1

Why have trials at all?!!

It's a sham, to put the veneer of justice over a system thoroughly corrupted!!!

13 ( +16 / -3 )

“Harsh" compared to what? The luxury lifestyle he is used to?

Yes. The one he has been forcibly removed from, withouth having been convicted of any crime.

12 ( +26 / -14 )

While I totally support his wife supporting him, he isn't being treated any more "harshly" than any other detainee in a J Detention Centre, regardless of nationality. I'm not advocating the treatment he / all are receiving, I'm just saying I don't believe he's being singled out for a harsher-than-regular regime.

This kind of harsh treatment that exist to get false confession shouldn't be happen in developed and democratic country in the first place.

The wife of ousted Nissan Motor Co Ltd chairman Carlos Ghosn has urged Human Rights Watch to bring attention to the "harsh treatment"

12 ( +14 / -2 )

How does this differ from any other democratic country? This is how it works in the United States, and I would expect that aspect to be the same in Japan. There are procedural differences for sure but let's not let complaints about those differences distort the big picture.

In other countries, they have bail. I know the concept exists in Japan, but in practice, it pretty much doesn't. In other countries the presumption of innocence also means that removing someone's freedom with no bail is only for the most extreme situations. In Japan removing someone's freedom with no bail is the standard.

The idea that procedural differences are nothing, is like saying that because North Korea has elections, it technically makes them democratic with procedural differences.

11 ( +18 / -7 )

Bail does exist in Japan as in other countries.

And as a practice, it almost never is given.

In the US it is entirely up to the Judge to grant bail or not.

I'm neither American, nor have I been bringing up American law. I'm speaking of what is right and wrong, and removing someone's freedom for months at a time, without trial nor conviction, and no opportunity for bail, is a moral failing of the state. Freedom is an essential factor of a healthy state, and is only revoked when absolutely necessary. If other countries are doing the same, they are also in the wrong. If other countries are doing the opposite, then they are not in the wrong for this specific issue.

11 ( +16 / -5 )

Welcome to middle ages.. wait. Contemporary Japan

10 ( +22 / -12 )

This a game of get the gaijin and it is a micron away from torture. It has got to stop. Or it has to be stopped by out outside pressure.

10 ( +14 / -4 )

What evidence does anyone have that Ghosn sinned? We have not even seen evidence to indicate he is guilty of a crime yet.

9 ( +12 / -3 )

There is no reason to deny a non-violent offender bail and instead ask him to surrender his passport, wear a monitoring device and subject him to house arrest other than to torture a confession from him while he is incarcerated. This is a system set up to extort confessions under duress, nothing more. It is barbaric that in the 21st century any country considers this just, and it is time that more countries speak out against endless detention before trial. If this persists any longer, Ghosn should take a page from Bobby Sands' playbook.

9 ( +13 / -4 )

@Northernlife: No cigarettes anymore (ca. 4 years now), and "toilet paper" has to be requested (and they never give you enough!).

Otherwise, I agree ,-)

8 ( +8 / -0 )

The former Nissan executive is being held in a 75-square-foot unheated cell and being denied his daily medication,

This can happen because Japan's "hostage justice".

Being late in receiving medication can make him in really terrible pain. Is this their way to get confession from while he is in pain? In exchange they will let him to get his medication after they get confession they wanted.

8 ( +14 / -6 )

@wipeout - You are right. It does not become worth caring about it now. But this is the first time I remember this situation getting so much attention. If anything (and whether Ghosn is guilty or not) it will raise awareness of the realities of the justice system in Japan.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

It still amazes me how many people defend the Japanese system.

The idea of detaining a suspect without bail. By itself, not an issue. White collar suspects are held without bail around the world. Perhaps not under these circumstances.

But, the thing that makes the Japanese system horrendous and no better than Communist China is that ALL interrogations occur WITHOUT a suspect's lawyer. In fact, their lawyers are PROHIBITED from being present. And there is NO requirement that the interrogations be recorded.

So, any time, day or night, a suspect under detention can be interrogated without their lawyer present, without any recording of what their interrogators say or do.

THAT is barbaric, that is what dictatorships do!!!

Japan's justice system is a sham!!!

8 ( +12 / -4 )

To Japanese people, ankle bracelets are for animals.

what a pathetic excuse, give Japanese detainees an option, indefinite detention until you confess your guilt or wear a tracking bracelet and stay at home in your own residence. do you really need an answer.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

"I believe most Japanese people think justice means only “seigi”, or fairness, with no law related nuance. The idea of justice in the western sense as a fusion of morality and rule of law doesn’t really exist here."

Yes, but that only applies to japanese, in many cases I have encountered, there is a different sense of fairness used for japanese and a different sense for gaijin. basically the default gaijin position is your to blame no matter what

8 ( +12 / -4 )

@tinawatanabeToday 11:25 am JST

you have to see it through his wife's perspective.. she's probably devastated and depressed,

If I were her, I would tell him, "please be honest and cooperative in investigation. I'll wait for you until freed"

Gohsn says: I have been (sic)"wrongly accused and unfairly detained based on meritless and unsubstantiated accusations."

So in what way is he being dishonest and non co-operative?

Tina and some others seem to be convinced he is guilty and yet we've seen no proof, and not heard his defense.

It's a really strange position to take. I just don't understand it.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Sorry Japanese prison cells aren't designed in coordination with IKEA interior designers with modern, well thought out appointments. And celebrity chef inspired meals, too.

Shenjingbing - Ghosn is not in prison - he is in detention. As someone who is considered innocent in the eyes of the law until he is found guilty, he should not be kept in punishment conditions. If there is a genuine need to detain him (and I am not sure that he is), he should be kept in relative comfort - more like the conditions of a basic business hotel than a prison cell.

And if he wants expensive food, why shouldn't he buy it? To re-iterate the point, he has not been found guilty of anything so should not be treated as guilty.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

My prayers are for Mr Gosn and family for justice to be served.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

I believe that the reasons for bail being denied in this particular case in Japan are the same reasons that bail would be denied in other countries.

How do you explain the Huawei exec being given bail?

For that reason, whether your claim is correct or incorrect does not bear much relevance.

Since you conclusion is based on 'that reason', and I just showed how you were incorrect with 'that reason', then your conclusion that my claim is incorrect nor bears relevance is based upon a faulty premise, and is therefore a faulty conclusion.

We are talking about law, and regardless of what country, one's personal position on what is "right and wrong" is subjective.

Nope. Freedom is a fundamental human right. It's not a morality based on location. Some countries are better with freedom than others. Japan is extremely free in many ways, which is why I love it, but it's got a very poor legal system that does not protect the fundamental human rights of the people.

It is customary in all countries to hold the charged until trial

Again, Canada, Huawei.

6 ( +12 / -6 )

@tinawatanabe,

Ghosn's interrogation is recorded.

Are ALL interrogations recorded in audio and video and ALL available to the defense team and can be submitted to the court as part of the proceedings???

Don't think so!!

6 ( +9 / -3 )

This article say Ghosn’s wife said he “eats only rice and barley”. The BBC online version of the same news reports she said he “eats mainly rice and barley”.

There's no way he's only being given rice to eat. Read any description of detention centre food. It's spartan, but not that spartan.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

"For hours each day, the prosecutors interrogate him, browbeat him, lecture him and berate him, outside the presence of his attorneys, in an effort to extract a confession," she said.

They only care about confession and conviction no matter what evidences are.

Criminal defense attorney Makoto Endo once said that Japan’s criminal courts operate on a presumption of “guilty until proven guilty.” Endo said the goal of the system wasn’t to dispense justice, it was to obtain a conviction.

5 ( +15 / -10 )

I guess by "worse places" I'm thinking "war", or perhaps more applicable any UK or US jail or prison, with the constant threat and / or realisation of physical & sexual violence, forced drug addiction, etc. Let's not even mention ME prisons.

That's like telling someone whom has a migraine that they could be having someone drilling a hold into their head without an anesthetic, so it's not so bad.

I mean yeah, technically they are right.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

@zones - I agree with your question you have posed. I have yet to hear any good reason whatsoever as to why the lawyer cannot be present during interrogation and/or why such interrogations cannot be recorded. The only reason I could see for this is that the interrogators want to use any means possible to extract a confession from the accused.

They indicate they have evidence against Ghosn so why not go to trial?

I have not seen anyone provide a logical or reasonable answer to these questions.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

To Japanese people, ankle bracelets are for animals.

And to Westerners, interrogations without lawyers present are for 3rd world barbarians!!

Ankle bracelets are actually defendable, whereas what Japan does serves only one purpose: to coerce confessions from suspects!!!

@tinawatanabe, stop defending the indefensible!!! Ghosn might be guilty, but the Japanese justice system sure as heck is guilty of being archaic and barbaric!!!

5 ( +11 / -6 )

For me Japan is the land of human rights, justice & democracy. In one word Japan is my dream land .

what is happening with Mr. Ghosn is far away from humanity.

Give me back my dream

Justice & freedom for Mr. Ghosn

4 ( +8 / -4 )

There is no doubt that Ghosn is a sinner.

Has anyone even asked the question on whether or not he is a sinner? People are currently discussing whether or not he committed a crime. No one is talking about sins. This is a discussion of legality, not morality.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@Strangerland: Apparently, some do ...

Good point.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Akie* actually agree with you on this one. Maybe he should pull the old, “I was drunk and don’t remember it very well but I may have done something naughty” admition to get out on bail. Seems to work well for most.

What? Who (in Japan) ever got out on bail for claiming they were drunk? They almost never give out bail here, much less for claiming one was drunk.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Has anyone even asked the question on whether or not he is a sinner? 

I believe most Japanese people think justice means only “seigi”, or fairness, with no law related nuance. The idea of justice in the western sense as a fusion of morality and rule of law doesn’t really exist here.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

It's not the end of the world. There are far worse places to be in!

Not many. He's been torn from his life, without having been tried for nor convicted of a crime. A prison of comfort is still a prison.

3 ( +9 / -6 )

Ah yes, the Japanese "justice" system. Equal to being tossed and tied up on the rack and the Grand Inquisitor saying in your ear "repent, repent" as the wheel is turned. Confess and then they burn you at the stake. Refuse to confess and the rack finishes you off. Either way you are toast.

3 ( +10 / -7 )

@Tokyo-Engr,

I have not seen anyone provide a logical or reasonable answer to these questions.

No one can answer this question / these questions.

They deflect to the actual facts of the case, but they cannot answer this question.

Well, other than to say that Japn = good and Ghosn = bad.

They miss the point.

THIS is not about whether Ghosn is guilty or not, it is about due process and the process of determining guilt.

So many blinded by their unswerving allegiance to JAPAN.

Ware ware nihonjin and all of that!!!

3 ( +5 / -2 )

People routinely die in these detention facilities.

Human rights watch, amnesty international etc. All know about what Japanese police are doing as well as the immigration centers. Which is the next place ghosn is going to be sent for unlimited detention.

He should take his money and break out. He is never going to receive justice and statistically he as at a much higher risk of premature death inside one of those detention facilities. I forget the actual stats but IIRC simply being in one of them increases your risk of death by a major amount

3 ( +6 / -3 )

"Regardless the use modern technologies, Japan is not a modern country. The culture of Japan has evolved very little in the last 200 years."

a very realistic observation. Japan is backwards, compared to other countries in many ways; too tradition based here

Another thing observed from living in japan, for ex. the tit for tat between the Japanese guy and Chinese man here), in Asia, time is seen as eternal and events are just blips on an eternal timeline. For ex. The US won the Pacific war and declared victory over Japan, but in many Chinese and Japanese peoples psyche, that war was just a tick on a time line, and those events can and will change, they are not static, as it has been throughout their very ancient history. In many peoples mind from the West, fascism was defeated in that war, and thats that, a new chapter in history has begun; out with old, in with the new. In many Asians mind, however, thats not the case; war is perpetual...this has been my observation and opinion, if others could share or argue, would like to read it.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

He's not being treated as guilty. He's being treated as someone who broke multiple laws and was arrested. FACT.

He hasnt been found guilty of any broken laws yet, everything is suspected. but he still shares a similar cell in the same building as convicted murderers. FACT

If prosecutors have so much irrefutable evidence then theres no need for a forced confession. A judge or jury should easily convict him guilty as charged. It seems a forced confession and admission of guilt is enough to convict the accused in a Japanese court regardless of how little evidence the prosecutors have.

3 ( +9 / -6 )

"For hours each day, the prosecutors interrogate him, browbeat him, lecture him and berate him, outside the presence of his attorneys, in an effort to extract a confession," she said.

Sounds about right! It mirrors what happens to countless other defendants held in detention in Japan. It doesn't matter if you are Japanese or a foreigner, rich or poor. If the police / prosecutors / State want to prosecute and convict you, this is the way they go about it.

And in the case of Ghosn, this is now so high profile, they will not relent. In fact, unless this is removed from the hands of the prosecutors handling this, anything short of extracting a confession / convicting Ghosn will be career-ending for them.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Criminal defense attorney Makoto Endo once said that Japan’s criminal courts operate on a presumption of “guilty until proven guilty.” Endo said the goal of the system wasn’t to dispense justice, it was to obtain a conviction.

This is kind of true in my experience. Although, I would say that the goal isn't to obtain a conviction, the goal is to ensure no failed prosecutions. They will often drop charges that have a fairly solid basis out of fear that they may not be able to get a guilty conviction.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Tina you have to see it through his wife's perspective.. she's probably devastated and depressed, that statement might have been sent in the past, not updated. Anyone's state of mind would be highly depressed knowing her husband who is innocent and imprisoned

2 ( +7 / -5 )

ksteer, I see your point with regards to being a flight risk, however, if that's the only reason for him being detained, why can't his family visit him or his lawyer be present during interrogations?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

This article say Ghosn’s wife said he “eats only rice and barley”. The BBC online version of the same news reports she said he “eats mainly rice and barley”.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

And they call us in Lebanon third world. I promise you, despite all our failings, we treat prisonners a million times better than Japan. You have ruined your image forever in the minds of the world who believed you haved moved on from your barbaric past. Apparently, all you have done was put on a beautiful mask to a rotten body.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

eats only rice and barley

But last time she said he eats only rice. So, its improvement.

He has lost 7 kg

Last time she said 10 kg. So he gained 3 kg by eating only rice?

being denied his daily medication

and what is detention doctor's opinion?

Prosecutors in Japan often try to extract confessions from prisoners in detainment that could last months, Carole Ghosn claimed in the letter.

His lawyer clearly denied this point at the press conference.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Bail does exist in Japan as in other countries. In the US it is entirely up to the Judge to grant bail or not. Presumably it is the same in Japan where Japanese law applies. There are plenty of cases in the US where a request for bail is denied, especially when there is a higher than average risk of flight. Obviously Carlos Ghosn, a routine international traveler with 3 passports and plenty of financial resources fits in that category. That he remains in custody without bail until his trial is not unusual and certainly not some "human rights" issue.

Nobody said "procedural differences are nothing". I simply recognized that there are procedural differences.

1 ( +10 / -9 )

Seeing as I've mentioned neither, nor even consider them to have any relevance to anything I've said, I don't think that I have that confusion.

Well you SEEM to be under the impression that he is imprisoned when in fact he is being detained. There is a big difference between the two.

Ridiculous. He's a world-known figure. You think he's going to go hide in some non-extraditable country for the rest of his life? This isn't the type of thing one can run away from. And that's the whole point of bail - you place a large enough financial burden on the person to ensure that they won't run. There is also monitoring such as ankle bracelets.

Its absolutely the type of thing one can run away from. Many people have done it in the past before. You think Brazil or Lebanon is going to extradite him back to Japan? I HIGHLY doubt it.

You're definition of bail is correct: you place a large enough burden to ensure they won't run. However, Ghosn is ridiculously wealthy and the Japanese legal system has set limits to bail amounts. He wouldnt even blink at the cost of it, Japan doesn't use monitoring bracelets. And lets be honest, you can easily get around that.

Look at the Huawei exec in Canada. She's an extremely wealthy individual. Her Vancouver homes alone are worth nearly $20 million dollars. And she has more than enough motivation and money to be able to run. Yet she's still in Canada, and it's not like China would ever give her up to the Canadians if she went back to China.

As a Canadian ex-pat in Japan, I know the case fairly well. The difference being this. In the case of her, she CANT be a flight risk because she would have to use an international airport to go to any country that would support her. Lets theoretically say she would run. The largest personal business jet on sale, doesn't have the range to make it past Hawaii. That means if she fled from Canada from a personal airport, or even a grass field, she would end up in America, or the Pacific/Atlantic Ocean before she could get anywhere.

So she was deemed not a flight risk because the only place she could flee too, realistically, is the place that wants her extradited to begin with.

In the case of Ghosn, if he took off from a private airport/field with even a small Cessna twin-engine he could easily get to Russia/China/South Korea/ Singapore/ many other places. Thats the difference between these two cases. The Huawei exact literally can't run anywhere, Ghosn theoretically can.

I just pointed out where you're wrong, with the Huawei exec in Canada.

I think you'll find I just pointed out where you're wrong. My argument still stands

1 ( +7 / -6 )

I think the arguments regarding Ghosn being a flight risk are ridiculous. First, all his passports can be taken. Second, they can attach an angle bracelet to him. Third, with biometrics used at entry and exit that is an additional level of protection against travel.

As far as him tampering with evidence. At this point where? He will not be allowed back into Nissan and he cannot go back to his residence in Tokyo. What is he going to do?

I believe they are afraid of giving him an opportunity to speak publicly or have other reasons for not releasing him.

I wonder how Greg Kelly is doing and if he could receive his medical treatment? I understand he was released but is not allowed to leave Japan.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

“There is also monitoring such as ankle bracelets.”

“Second, they can attach an angle bracelet to him.”

As I mentioned on another thread, Japan doesn’t have any system for monitoring such as ankle bracelets. So you can’t fault authorities for not using tools that they do not have available to them.

My opinion is that it would be great if an ankle bracelet system were put in place and that high profile cases such as the Huawei case might help prod Japan into doing that. But I don’t expect it to happen overnight.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Tokyo-Eng, “I wonder how Greg Kelly is doing and if he could receive his medical treatment? I understand he was released but is not allowed to leave Japan.”

I’ve seen reports that Kelly had his surgery, has been released from hospital, and is now living in an apartment.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

So. What next if he dies ?

1 ( +4 / -3 )

BTW Ghosn’s lawyer applied for his release on bail on Fri and the hearing will be tomorrow (as today is a holiday). On the noon Wide Scramble show Mr Wakasa (former prosecutor, or detective was it?, and politician) predicted a 50/50 chance that the request will be granted.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Ghosn will bring change eventually to our corrupt system

1 ( +5 / -4 )

So. What next if he dies ?

theyll just state hes got a previous condition unrelated to him being in detention.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Wipeout, “There's no way he's only being given rice to eat. Read any description of detention centre food. It's spartan, but not that spartan.”

Exactly, hence my question earlier as to why he isn’t eating the other items on the tray, if in fact he’s only eating rice and barley. I think his family is either misinformed or exaggerating in a bid for sympathy.

Same as the many comments I’ve read that says he has to sleep on tatami with the implication that’s somehow cruel. When everything I’ve ever seen indicates people in those facilities sleep in futon laid out on tatami. Which is exactly what a huge proportion of the Jspanese non-detained population does every day.

I’d be the first to say the Japanese system has room for improvement (and have said so for 40 years) but I think these type of misleading and outright lies do not help. A lot of people seem to have become unhinged, repeating such lies and distortions, either in their ignorance or some kind of zeal to make the Japanese look as bad as possible. The people going on about medieval conditions could stand to do a little research into what the conditions were like in medieval times.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

 is the refusal of granting bail in Ghosn's situation justified? Yes it is because he is a flight risk.

and why do they refuse bail on the average Taro that is also held in detention, most dont have the financial means to escape yet they still rarely grant bail to detainees

So we are only supposed to weep for Ghosn, a rich guy who is most likely guilty as hell for under reporting his income.

people still dont get it! nearly all Japanese/gaijin detainees are treated the same majority arent rich and many have had forced confessions and sent to jail for crimes they didnt comit. It the system of "hostage justice, guilty until proven guilty" thats corrupt not only the individuals that may or may not be guilty!

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Lets theoretically say she would run. The largest personal business jet on sale, doesn't have the range to make it past Hawaii. That means if she fled from Canada from a personal airport, or even a grass field, she would end up in America, or the Pacific/Atlantic Ocean before she could get anywhere.

@ksteer

Actually the new Gulfstream has a range of 7,500 nautical miles and the distance from Canada to a major Chinese airport is just over 5,000 nautical miles. Seems she could easily make it back to China without stopping, I think you mentioned Russia, N. Korea, etc in Ghosn's case, or anywhere else for that matter.

Ghosn should be granted bail! There is no reason not too!

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Welcome to the Japan Gulag Archipelago. This is exactly how the Soviet commisars would extract confessions from political prisoners and others-- harsh conditions, constant interrogations, no lawyers. Pretty much the same in China.

Incredible that the French and Brazilian governments continue to do nothing and it is left to Ghosn's wife to beg Human Rights Watch to help.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

Some commentators here keep emphasising that Mr.Ghosn is wealthy. So why should we have sympathy?

The point is, law, rule of law affects both rich and poor alike.

How on earth a bureaucrat (prosecutor) can hold judges under his/her thumb is quite astounding. It is my understanding that in Japan a defendant on demand can apply for bail unlimited times after a refusal. He should just keep applying. Surely out there, there is a judge who is not scared, who actually has a mind of their own, and is answerable to justice (law and equity) and not to a bureaucrat at Kasumigaseki.

Many articals in the Japanese constitution began "all persons.......".

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Like I said, japan seriously does not respect human rights. I remember a japanese guy at the shibuya detention I was at who got bail soon. He was in there for possession of drugs he said.. but at the same time, something told me he was really an undercover agent trying to talk with me.. but he was around for that for about 3 weeks, then they gave him bail. after that, I was put in solitary confinement. that was harsh.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@wtfjapan:

Sorry - I've only flicked through the comments briefly, but he is NOT in Jail sharing time with convicted murderers. He's in a detention center..undeniably for a totally unreasonable amount of time. Should the moment come he is convicted ( a big IF in my opinion)) he'll be transferred to Fuchu Prison.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

What is his problem today,is the mattress too thin and the rice too lumpy, or the mattress too lumpy and the rice too thin ?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The problem with the Ghosn case is that this was a hit job by Japan Inc. Pure and simple. There was a goal in mind. Which was to rid Nissan of Ghosn and Renault. So, everything is aligned to make that happen. It is inconceivable that conversations were not had between Saikawa and his friends in the Keidanren and in the NPA and the Prosecutor's Office. And once the green light was given, there was no turning back.

As I have said from the beginning, this was and is a hit job. Ghosn actually being guilty of anything is besides the point.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

About the food, I keep wondering why Ghosn’s son and wife have claimed he’s only eating rice or rice with barley three times a day? Why is he not eating the soup and main/side dishes served with the rice? (BTW it’s often said the rice mixed with barley served in Japanese jails is healthier than plain white rice.)

About the medication, they maybe didn’t say what kind for privacy reasons, but is it something legal under Japanese laws and is it truly necessary? If so I would think his lawyer should be able to take it up with authorities to make sure he gets it. Has that happened? Did the lawyer try and fail to convince them? Embassy officials who met with Ghosn have reported he said he was being treated well so why is this medication thing coming up all of a sudden?

0 ( +5 / -5 )

How does a corporate issue that should be handled in house by the Board of Directors end up being a criminal issue. Nissan needs to grow up like anyone else posting comments who thinks that Ghosn is guilty. Why didn't Saikawa and the unnamed whistle blower go to Renault's Board of Directors first and have this vetted. And Ghosn is not a flight risk. Ghosn is too well known to be able to leave Japan if monitored.

And about destroying evidence, all the evidence should be evident in corporate records. Really if the prosecutors are worried about destroyed evidence, what evidence do they have that allows them to keep Ghosn incarcerated. FREE Ghosn!!!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I think your confusing the difference between a detention center and prison in Japan.

Seeing as I've mentioned neither, nor even consider them to have any relevance to anything I've said, I don't think that I have that confusion.

Also, I think we should base our assumptions and feelings about this based on this specific case. Yes, Japan rarely gives bail out. But, regardless of what it often does or doesn't do, is the refusal of granting bail in Ghosn's situation justified? Yes it is because he is a flight risk.

Ridiculous. He's a world-known figure. You think he's going to go hide in some non-extraditable country for the rest of his life? This isn't the type of thing one can run away from. And that's the whole point of bail - you place a large enough financial burden on the person to ensure that they won't run. There is also monitoring such as ankle bracelets.

Look at the Huawei exec in Canada. She's an extremely wealthy individual. Her Vancouver homes alone are worth nearly $20 million dollars. And she has more than enough motivation and money to be able to run. Yet she's still in Canada, and it's not like China would ever give her up to the Canadians if she went back to China.

End of story, bringing up the point of bail is moot at this point, because even in other countries that have similar systems like the US/Australia, Ghosn wouldnt be granted bail and would be in a Detention Center just like he is here.

I just pointed out where you're wrong, with the Huawei exec in Canada.

0 ( +8 / -8 )

Educator. I am not disputing you but where have you read that ankle bracelets are not used? This is very common and easy technology to implement (aside from the bureaucracy). This is information I am not aware of. Also where are the reports about Kelly (I am actually interested in reading this)?

I think the flight risk can be addressed.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Tokyo-Eng,

Did a quick search about Kelly and didn’t find anything in English but here a link to an article in Japanese that says he’s had surgery, is out of hospital and in the agreed upon residence and that family member(s?) have come from the US to be with him.

https://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20190111-00000082-jij-soci

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Educator. Thanks for the article. I’ll give it a read. As for ankle bracelets I have no idea if they are used here or not and I’m curious if anyone has definite information about this either way

0 ( +0 / -0 )

He's in jail,it's not a holiday camp.

for a crime he is only accused of , he hasnt been found guilty of anything yet. still he shares a cell close to those on death row. how is that justice.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Give me ONE good reason that a suspect can be interrogated WITHOUT their lawyer present and WITHOUT MANDATORY recording of the interrogation!!

Ghosn's interrogation is recorded.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@seadog, I find that hard to believe, he would have been charged by the Police but awaiting trial where he will either be found guilty and convicted or acquitted. People detained without 'charge' does not really happen in this country unless it is on mental health grounds.

I think the biggest issue with Carlos' case and the Japanese justice system as a whole is the apparent opaqueness of it as well as the fact that defence are not entitled to be present during interviews and what appear to be some human rights issues as well (interview/interrogation at any time, family visits not allowed etc). I have no idea about the machinations of the allegations (as we all do) but it appears the odds are stacked against the man.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Japan's medieval backward judicial system at display for the whole world to see.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

Actually the new Gulfstream has a range of 7,500 nautical miles and the distance from Canada to a major Chinese airport is just over 5,000 nautical miles. Seems she could easily make it back to China without stopping, I think you mentioned Russia, N. Korea, etc in Ghosn's case, or anywhere else for that matter.

Ghosn should be granted bail! There is no reason not too!

Absolutely true, I completely fudged my numbers there. Read it at 5000 km. That being said, the Gulfstream requires a runway length of 5858 ft, minimum. The only airports in Canada that have a runway at that length are international ones. There isnt a place she could take off from, especially not a field with a jet aircraft.

Ghosn on the other hand can skip to any country willing to help him with a rather long farm field and a single engine aircraft...

@since1981

ksteer, I see your point with regards to being a flight risk, however, if that's the only reason for him being detained, why can't his family visit him or his lawyer be present during interrogations?

As for the family, that makes a bit of sense. Asking to destroy evidence would be one thing. As for lawyers? No idea, and its not my place to say. But, in my opinion, western ideals where a lawyer can do all the talking for you isn't particularly fair. All it takes is a particularly wealthy individual to hire a particularly intelligent lawyer and they end up walking because they defer all responsibility to said person. If you are accused of committing a crime, you should have to be the one to answer questions. Not someone you're paying

0 ( +4 / -4 )

.

This is her pre-emptive strike because the investigation is closing in on her.

According to other responsible news sources- surprisingly the news never mentioned in JT - however Ghosn set sup a shell company in her name - which was used to funnel Nissan money to buy things like a Yacht for Ghosn's use

This is her attempt to detract from the issue - hoping to avert action by the prosecution

0 ( +5 / -5 )

The truth, nobody knows. It will never know. But it's up to each and every people what they decide and judge. However, the system may fair or unfair on any cases.

Japanese law, system, detention etc. explained in these films below quite realistically.

(2017) The Third Murder

(2006) Confessions of a Dog

(2006) I just didn't do it

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@ksteer

Absolutely true, I completely fudged my numbers there. Read it at 5000 km. That being said, the Gulfstream requires a runway length of 5858 ft, minimum. The only airports in Canada that have a runway at that length are international ones. There isnt a place she could take off from, especially not a field with a jet aircraft.

Are you sure those are the only numbers you fudged? lol

I flew into Fort McMurray just last week and, I think if you check, it's runway is a bit over 7,000 ft. In fact many regional airports have 7-8,000 ft runways. There are even public use airports that have runways over 6,000 ft!

You're welcome to your opinion that Ghosn shouldn't be allowed bail but I certainly hope the Judge doesn't just accept the prosecutors word and checks the facts. I'm sure that he'll find that there is no logical reason to not allow bail.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Oh, poor baby. Ghosn has it rough. Rougher than the thousands of people he laid off years ago and rougher than those who are trying to make enough for a decent living (sarcasm).

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Excuse me, We are taking a very different subject here. We are talking abt human rights. Why these people, who had been laid off did not protest at that time ???. In Japan, or in America ( Big companies just do what they want ), do u think it was just Carlos ???.It was human resources department that provide him the information and advised him. It was not a personal decision, that is why it is called Nissan inc. What are people thinking ???. Just looking at a famous personality and destroy him, no matter what ???. No wonder , smallness is the sign of Japanese poor mind & heart, I should have believed what the rest of the world was saying abt 90% of Japanese people. Too bad for Japan. I will never say anything good abt Japan anymore. I will always cite Carlos case on one hand and Sharp case on the other.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Vinarius, “Mrs Carlos, if U love yr husband, Pls be in Japan to protest with yr children.”

Wouldnt it be more effective for his, not her, children to come?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I actually have experience spending 50 days in detention in a Japanese jail (in a police station, not a prison or a detention centre it should be noted) without ever being indicted.

For those who do not know, Japanese law permits police officers to detain suspects for upwards of 23 days whilst they investigate a crime. Therefore, if you do not confess to an alleged crime at the time of arrest they can keep you locked up for 23 days straight before the prosecutor must decide to release you or indict you. Usually most people crack and think a confession will help them leave the jail sooner but that is not going to benefit.

Japan has a 98% conviction rate for those who confess. It should be noted that the actual conviction rate for those who went to trail but did not confess is actually a lot lower. I remember my lawyer saying it was 50% or less. Somewhw around there.

Fortunately I was released after those 50 days when it was revealed that the Japanese authorities had made a big screw up. I've never gone public with the story but if anybody is looking for a reason insight into what Ghossen may be going through then perhaps I can offer my experience. Whilst I suffered no physical torture there are a lot of underhand tactics the Japanese police force use in order to get what they want. People may be surprised to learn about these things.

Take for example the double charge tactic. Originally I was arrested arrested for "intimidation. They had no evidence to support there claims. Just a poorly Google translated text message. Nevertheless it was their tactic to keep me there for 23 days detained and let me sweat it out, hoping I'd crack.

On the 23rd day I was due to be released when it became clear the prosecutor had nothing concrete with that would work in his favour, so he released me without indictment. But I did not get to leave. I was shown official papers stating I was being released without indictment but then immediately shown a new paper with a new unrelated charge. And so the process began again. 23 days whilst they scrambled to get evidence / a confession. But on the 46th day they finally gave up. Even the police knew they could not keep arresting me without ever indicting me over and over without attracting media suspicion or attention. So they let me go.

At last I was free. My lawyer and those familiar with the case know what an utter farce the whole encounter was. If I had been Japanese you can bet I'd never have gone through such a process.

I left Japan by my own free will 8 months later. But still I cannot forget the experience. It leaves a bitter taste in the mouth. In just 46 days I lost 7kgs also. It is absolutely possible... the food is very low in protein for a male over 180cm tall.

Yes, you can purchase convenience store goods 1x a week but they are just cookies and chips... sometimes curry. You'd need a lot of money to do it frequently. Japan's justice system is very old school. The country is undoubtedly a safe place to live in but there is a dark underbelly to it that few see or experience.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Thanks for the story youngswagger. It’s just another example that of the travesty that is the justice system here.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Japan is not unique in jailing people without charge--I know a young man (age 20) who has been held in jail in Melbourne, Australia awaiting trial for over two months without being charged with anything. His Mother cannot get any information about either his court appearance or the charges he is facing. "Privacy" is what she has been told.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

@Strangerland: Sorry, too thick to work out how to quote here ...

I guess by "worse places" I'm thinking "war", or perhaps more applicable any UK or US jail or prison, with the constant threat and / or realisation of physical & sexual violence, forced drug addiction, etc. Let's not even mention ME prisons.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

That's like telling someone whom has a migraine that they could be having someone drilling a hold into their head without an anesthetic, so it's not so bad.

Actually his conditions sound grim, but they're the conditions that any of us who live here, Japanese and foreign alike, would face if we were arrested and passed along to a detention centre. People have been writing about this for decades, it doesn't suddenly become worth caring about because it's happening to Ghosn.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Tokyo-Eng, “Educator. I am not disputing you but where have you read that ankle bracelets are not used? This is very common and easy technology to implement (aside from the bureaucracy). This is information I am not aware of.”

Lets put it another way, I’ve never seen any evidence whatsoever that they are used here. And the consultation sites about the bail system that I’ve read didn’t mention them at all. Have you ever heard of a case where an ankle brecelet was used?

I agree they are common...in other countries. And as I’ve indicated above I think it would be a good idea for them to be used here too.

About where I saw the news on Kelly’s current situation I don’t remember for sure, I think it was on TV.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

 I am not disputing you but where have you read that ankle bracelets are not used? 

It's simpler than that. Unless they are used in Japan, then they're not, and there's no legal mechanism for employing them as a form of bail insurance.

In this case, the onus is more on you to show if they're used at all here. Because a judge doesn't have the authority to dream up new conditions under which a detainee can be released.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

wipeout, Tokyo-Engr,

Re ankle bracelets in Japan, the point is kinda moot because there is at least one other option and that is house arrest. A bit more difficult to get a confession but a good compromise if they think he is a flight risk or that he might tamper with evidence.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

He's in jail,it's not a holiday camp. Just because he isn't living the presumably luxurious life that he would have been accustomed to is hardly justification for complaint.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

seadog538Jan. 14 08:23 am JST

If he is enjoying/enduring the same conditions-including food-as the other inmates he han't complain. He's in jail,it's not a holiday camp. Just because he isn't living the presumably luxurious life that he would have been accustomed to is hardly justification for complaint. He may well have many years in jail ahead of him with more "harsh treatment" to put up with. People I've known who have been in jail all say that it's a terrible experience.

Wow! Talk about missing the point (of a criminal justice system) entirely!

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Carlos is not a murderer, Carlos have rights. Why is he not geting these rights ???. Mrs Carlos, if U love yr husband, Pls be in Japan to protest with yr children. Then Japan Inc & Nissan cannot just say , what they want. If U want to see yr husband well and out on bail, pls hold personal protest in front of Nissan Japan and make every Japanese understand , Yr husband & his stand. Trust that yr lawyers will approve.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Akie* actually agree with you on this one. Maybe he should pull the old, “I was drunk and don’t remember it very well but I may have done something naughty” admition to get out on bail. Seems to work well for most.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

@Strangerland

I think your confusing the difference between a detention center and prison in Japan.

Also, I think we should base our assumptions and feelings about this based on this specific case. Yes, Japan rarely gives bail out. But, regardless of what it often does or doesn't do, is the refusal of granting bail in Ghosn's situation justified? Yes it is because he is a flight risk. End of story, bringing up the point of bail is moot at this point, because even in other countries that have similar systems like the US/Australia, Ghosn wouldnt be granted bail and would be in a Detention Center just like he is here.

Here is the thing, since Ghosn has been indicted, he now has to wait for his court date. Because he is a flight risk, he has to wait for that date in the Detention Center without bail. Its not a human rights issue or even a legal issue. No one is saying he is guilty, and his detention doesn't assume that he is guilty either. However, he has been indicted and that means being treated like any other person that is indicted and not getting special treatment.

If he is guilty after the court proceedings then he will be sent to Prison, if he is innocent he will be able to go home. In the mean time, because he has been deemed a flight risk, he has to suck it up and wait in a Detention Center.

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

Kenji Fujimori, if this drags on, it will cost both Ghosn and Japan dearly. Ghosn has no chance to return to Nissan. It is better to minimize the damage rather than to amplify it.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

StrangerlandToday  10:48 am JST

Bail does exist in Japan as in other countries.

And as a practice, it almost never is given.

I do not know whether that is true, maybe it is, maybe it isn't. But I believe that the reasons for bail being denied in this particular case in Japan are the same reasons that bail would be denied in other countries. For that reason, whether your claim is correct or incorrect does not bear much relevance.

In the US it is entirely up to the Judge to grant bail or not.

I'm neither American, nor have I been bringing up American law. I'm speaking of what is right and wrong, and removing someone's freedom for months at a time, without trial nor conviction, and no opportunity for bail, is a moral failing of the state. Freedom is an essential factor of a healthy state, and is only revoked when absolutely necessary. If other countries are doing the same, they are also in the wrong. If other countries are doing the opposite, then they are not in the wrong for this specific issue.

We are talking about law, and regardless of what country, one's personal position on what is "right and wrong" is subjective. Ghosn's freedom has indeed been removed, but it is neither arbitrary nor without purpose. He is being held because he has been charged and indicted. It is customary in all countries to hold the charged until trial at which point he will either be found innocent or convicted. He was denied bail because he is a flight risk, a position that any court in any country would likely take. If he had not been charged, you would have a valid point. However, he has been charged and indicted. So if he is innocent all he has to do is wait for his trial. The U.S. does the same, and I am willing to bet most if not all democratic countries operate the same way.

He is in custody until his trial. You appear to be advocating a system of law whereby a person who is criminally charged must be released regardless of circumstances. The real world does not work that way.

-4 ( +8 / -12 )

Tina, again as I stated there's no evidence.. If he's a con artist why would he devote 20 years of his life to making Nissan powerful and wealthy when it was bankrupt twice before he came to Nissan..

Saikawa and his goons set him up, How is that difficult to understand??

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

But, in my opinion, western ideals where a lawyer can do all the talking for you isn't particularly fair. All it takes is a particularly wealthy individual to hire a particularly intelligent lawyer and they end up walking because they defer all responsibility to said person. If you are accused of committing a crime, you should have to be the one to answer questions. Not someone you're paying

Ksteer, in your many comments here on this story you do seem awfully, awfully fixated on the idea that Ghosn shouldn't be allowed to use his personal wealth to his advantage as a kind of "get out of jail free" card in dealing with the Japanese legal system. Your concerns about this are understandable, within limits. It's well known in some countries (like the United States) that a two-tiered justice system exists where the poor go to jail and the rich pay a fine. Nobody wants to see that kind of system transplanted to Japan or any other country.

As I've written before, I don't really care for the wealthy expat bankers and business executives who live in the luxury apartment towers of Hiroo and Azabu-Juban in Tokyo and appear to enjoy almost (dare I say it) neo-colonial or even extra-territorial privileges. But Ghosn's treatment is causing me to feel worried about the man. I don't like the harsh, coercive way non-rich Asian laborers from Nepal or Burma are suspected of being treated by Japanese authorities when they are detained in the country for whatever reason, and likewise I don't think an almost gleeful schadenfreude should be the reaction to seeing a wealthy foreign executive being treated in a similar manner.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

StrangerlandToday  08:48 am JST

“Harsh" compared to what? The luxury lifestyle he is used to?

Yes. The one he has been forcibly removed from, withouth having been convicted of any crime.

Yes as he has been charged and taken into custody, naturally he would be forcibly removed from his place of residence. And of course he hasn't been "convicted" unless he has had a trial. He has been indicted and that is good enough to end up in jail until the trial, unless freed on bail. How does this differ from any other democratic country? This is how it works in the United States, and I would expect that aspect to be the same in Japan. There are procedural differences for sure but let's not let complaints about those differences distort the big picture.

-5 ( +11 / -16 )

Everybody gets treated the same in detention there is no special millionaire treatment so she can complain all she wants its really not that bad...3 meals a day couple of cigarettes in the morning sit around reading.Endless supply of water and toilet paper...and if you have money there is even a special menu...

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

Greg Kelly said anything to slide out, Munoz was forced to quit, Saikawa and others conspired to destroy Ghosn who made Nissan powerful, so they can buy out the majority shares from Nissan. This is the reality.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

Tina and some others seem to be convinced he is guilty and yet we've seen no proof, and not heard his defense.

spinningplates, Ghosn admits he shifted his personal investment loss to Nissan.  Even if he took it back later it constitutes a crime for one.  he didn't report his deferred income.  There seem to be many others.

-8 ( +5 / -13 )

"Harsh" compared to what? The luxury lifestyle he is used to?

-9 ( +15 / -24 )

Maybe Ghosn should cut a deal admitting wrong doings in exchange for freedom. All he needs to do is to say something like "I didn't realize it broke the laws", and bow three times in front camera and run.

-9 ( +9 / -18 )

you have to see it through his wife's perspective.. she's probably devastated and depressed,

If I were her, I would tell him, "please be honest and cooperative in investigation. I'll wait for you until freed"

-11 ( +4 / -15 )

 where have you read that ankle bracelets are not used?

To Japanese people, ankle bracelets are for animals.

-12 ( +2 / -14 )

If Ghosn was considered innocent, he wouldn't be continuously re-arrested on charged every week. FACT.

He's not being kept in punishment conditions - he has clothes to wear, place to stay, food to eat. FACT.

HAHA - people arrested and detained should be kept in business hotels. HA HA HA HA. FACT.

He's not being treated as guilty. He's being treated as someone who broke multiple laws and was arrested. FACT.

-12 ( +2 / -14 )

Japan is a human society and it is wrong to treat another human as not one of them. While legally speaking it is not a problem to detain Ghosn, his health has to be considered as to be fit in the jail.

-14 ( +10 / -24 )

If he is enjoying/enduring the same conditions-including food-as the other inmates he han't complain. He's in jail,it's not a holiday camp. Just because he isn't living the presumably luxurious life that he would have been accustomed to is hardly justification for complaint. He may well have many years in jail ahead of him with more "harsh treatment" to put up with. People I've known who have been in jail all say that it's a terrible experience.

-14 ( +16 / -30 )

So we are only supposed to weep for Ghosn, a rich guy who is most likely guilty as hell for under reporting his income. What about the same treatment that everyone gets while being detained - whether guilty or not? Have no tears for this guy or his wife.

Sorry Japanese prison cells aren't designed in coordination with IKEA interior designers with modern, well thought out appointments. And celebrity chef inspired meals, too.

-15 ( +4 / -19 )

There is no doubt that Ghosn is a sinner. The only way to get him out is to seek health reasons.

-22 ( +2 / -24 )

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