Ghosn's lawyers hand dossier to U.N. human rights office showing violations

Need more pressure from the outside. Show the world the shame. They hate it when they look bad in the international community.

Need more pressure from the outside. Show the world the shame. They hate it when they look bad in the international community.

Especially at their beloved UN.

Keep shining a harsh light on the Japanese "justice" system, Ghosn!

Sad part is the literally hundreds of others in detention who dont have the money to spend on high priced lawyers and will have to sit and wait for their day in court.

It is really a shame, Kagoike and the wife were detained for over six months while the bereaucrats who gave away the land for cheap and all the other famous people involved in the moritomo scandal went scot free.

Sad part is the literally hundreds of others in detention who dont have the money to spend on high priced lawyers and will have to sit and wait for their day in court.

Very true, though at least the word is out there now that Japan will take your freedom for months and months at a time without you having been proven guilty of a crime, and with no opportunity for bail.

I love Japan, but this is one area where they have a serious failure of the state to respect the rights of its citizens.

OMG. What kind of unconventional and unlawful action is that ? UN isn't a court, as simple as that !

I don't get it. The guy has committed crimes. Don't care what right he has, he ain't going home. Just because everyone doesn't like the justic system, doesn't mean he should get that kind of support. UN has no right to meddle in. You are a playing into the lawyers hands by concerning yourself with the justice system instead focusing on that the guy has violated crimes.

It’s Ghosn ‘s family, not his lawyers. who submitted a document to the UN working group. I hope this tactic will not backfire.

I don't get it. The guy has committed crimes.

No, you assume the man has committed crimes. No crimes have been proven, except in the court of public press releases.

Meiyouwenti - "Through a team of lawyers his family submitted a document on Monday to the U.N. Working Group on Arbitrary Detention - Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights Geneva."

Sad part is the literally hundreds of others in detention who dont have the money to spend on high priced lawyers and will have to sit and wait for their day in court.

Agree with Strangerland that this is at least leading to increased recognition of Japan's badly flawed justice system. Whether this leads to better treatment for Ghosn or for all those who stand accused of crimes remains to be seen. I imagine that if Japan gets enough egg on its face they'll simply cut loose one wealthy foreigner, while the institutions involved remain unchanged.

Someone mentioned the Kagoikes--those of us committed to reform would prefer that even people we vehemently disagree with receive better treatment, including right wingers hoping to indoctrinate children. This continues to be a major part of the reactionary tone set by Japanese on this issue. "You only care now b/c it's a foreigner getting shafted." No, I'd prefer that anyone accused of a crime receives the same presumption of innocence and his/her day in court, where verdicts are actually decided.

@Akie - OMG. What kind of unconventional and unlawful action is that ? 

Strange comment! I would say the same thing about Ghosn's incarceration.

Unfortunately, I don't think this is going to help his case. In fact, I think it is going to achieve the opposite. Japan does not take kindly to international intervention and I fear this will make the Japanese prosecutors even more determined to keep Ghosn in a cell until his trial. Japan does not care about their international reputation when they believe they are right. The whaling fiasco proved this. The only thing that Japan really cares about is, money. If the UN and other countries started sanctioning and boycotting Japanese products in protest, Japan would very quickly respond and start playing ball.

Need more pressure from the outside. Show the world the shame. They hate it when they look bad in the international community.

This! Let's hope the UN will say/do something about it.

Disillusioned, I admit that the lawyers surprised the world by going UN, but the action is unlawful one because UN isn't a court. Unlawful is completely a neutral word here.

Disillusioned, I admit that the lawyers surprised the world by going UN, but the action is unlawful one because UN isn't a court. Unlawful is completely a neutral word here.

Mind posting a link to the law that prohibits going to the UN?

Chip Star, as I already explained. Unlawful here means an action for Public Relations purpose, not for legal purpose. There is no law to prohibit abuse UN.

Meiyouwenti,

from the original Reuters article:

Carlos Ghosn’s lawyers have submitted a dossier to a United Nations’ working group which showed that the former head of Renault’s rights had been violated during detention in Japan, one if his lawyers said on Monday.

Usually the intention of detaining someone is to prevent them from tampering with evidence during an investigation, or if they are a flight risk. Ghosen is unlikely to do either of those especially after this period of time.

Continued detention now looks more like an attempt to force a 'confession' or some sort of admission of wrongdoing, rather than a means to investigate whether wrong doing has actually occurred. If this is the case, it shows that the Justice System has already pre-determined that he is guilty, rather than weighing up the facts.

In this case, it would indeed be a violation of his Human Rights as he is being arbitrarily detained without trial.

The fact that this is being raised at the UN to highlight this issue could hopefully embarrass Japan into action, not only for Ghosen but for others in this situation. However, Japan will likely just wait for the controversy to blow over and carry on as usual.

Good step to the new lawyer, keep going pro you are the man

Chip Star, as I already explained. Unlawful here means an action for Public Relations purpose, not for legal purpose. There is no law to prohibit abuse UN.

Then it's not unlawful.

Need more pressure from the outside. Show the world the shame. They hate it when they look bad in the international community.

Couldn't agree more. You hit the nail on the head. But the UN and rest of the international community need to make sure this isn't just about Ghosn. Of course his human rights were violated, but my biggest fear is that Japan will probably cave into pressure and then assert that it is just an isolated incident. That would be wrong.

This has to be shown as a fundamental flaw in Japan's so called BS justice system. This is arbitrary detention and is SOP in Japan, and is no different from what China does (albeit with more finesse). Yet China does get criticized for its human rights violations and so should Japan.

I don't get it. The guy has committed crimes. Don't care what right he has, he ain't going home.

people still dont get it. Ghosn hasnt been committed/ruled guilty of anything, only a judge or jury can do that, he hasn't even gone to court yet! Everything is currently accusations, spread by the prosecutors, Nissan and fed on by the J media and consumed as fact by the gullible. Japan is a democracy and is part of the UN and abide by its ideology being a member of the UN and that includes basic human rights. Detaining somebody indefinately based purely on accusations isnt the norm in a democracy, especially if the person being detained isnt a risk to the safety of the general population. It clear Ghosn cant get fair trial here in Japan, may as world expose all the flaws for the world too see. Japan crypotnite is criticism, wait for the Japan bashing , Japan disrepect comments to start flowing soon. The more people understand the draconian laws of Japan the better off Japan will be in the future as criticism eventually brings about change

 Unlawful here means an action for Public Relations purpose,

if that was the case then the J prosecutors and Nissan would be arrested since they constantly leak information to the media about Ghosn case, now Ghosn is fighting back with counter media exposure both domestic and international people suddenly cry foul. LMFAO

This will make no difference.  Japan could care less what the world thinks about its justice system.

The document calls on the working group to acknowledge certain violations, declare the deprivation of liberty to which Ghosn is subjected to, and urge Japan to release him without delay with full compensation.

2 things Japan will NEVER do. Especially the jpolice. Apologize? Yeah, right! I hope the U.N. takes a telescopic-micrographic look at the Japanese Justice system and make demands to change their laws to give people a fair trial. Because there are so many innocent people sitting in jails waiting to see the light of the courtroom for something they've been wrongly accused of.

Akie Today  08:59 am JST

Chip Star, as I already explained. Unlawful here means an action for Public Relations purpose, not for legal purpose. 

No, Akie. "Unlawful" means against the law.

"Unlawful" doesn't mean "whatever Akie says it means."

That's true for every word, not just the word "unlawful."

Going to the UN in a case like this is not against the law. Therefore, it's not unlawful.

For you to say that it is unlawful is objectively wrong, and you can't change the definition of the word to make it otherwise.

Hiro Today  07:44 am JST

I don't get it. The guy has committed crimes. 

Maybe you "don't get it" because perhaps you don't understand the concept of "innocent until proven guilty."

Being arrested for something doesn't automatically or necessarily mean the person is guilty.

Also, the action described in the article isn't about him being guilty or innocent. It's about his treatment while arrested. Even when a person is arrested, they still have certain rights.

@Akie - Disillusioned, I admit that the lawyers surprised the world by going UN, but the action is unlawful one because UN isn't a court. Unlawful is completely a neutral word here.

Very often I see comments made by Japanese people that are extremely naive, culturally biased, based on emotion and lack any credibility what-so-ever. This comment is no different.

Let me explain it. Ghosn's lawyers have appealed to the UN over human rights issues related to the unwarranted and extended incarceration of Ghosn. This is not unlawful at all! His team of lawyers have appealed to the Japanese courts twice already with very fair terms of release, which were denied on grounds that lack credibility because of the terms of the appeals. The Japanese courts stated he was a flight risk and 'may' tamper with evidence. The terms of his appeal were, he would wear a locater anklet and pay for security to ensure he remains under house arrest. This would make it impossible for him to be a flight risk or for him to tamper with evidence. Under the terms of his incarceration, he is not allowed visitors and is only allowed to speak with his lawyers for an hour a day. However, the Japanese prosecutors and police can interrogate him for 8 hours or more per day without his lawyers present. He is denied any access to the media like, newspapers or accessing the internet. This is for a man who has not been convicted of any crime. The purpose of this detention and constant interrogation are to force him to confess, which is illegal in any democracy. There is your breech of human rights. If japan wants to call itself a democracy, they must abide by the laws of a democracy. The legal system is based on a fascist regime where bureaucrats make the laws to suit themselves and people are guilty until they can prove their innocence. Hence, the human rights violations from a so-called, Democracy.

His family initiated this through their European Lawyers it was news quite a few weeks ago. The new defence team have signed on, as its helps their new aggressive strategy. The weekness in the system of justice is its refusal to actually be just. Carlos is a very smart man who now has time to plan and focus. That's why he was so good at his job. This really was not thought through by the MOJ. They failed to understand that getting a confession was not going to happen. That due to his standing globally his detention was going to be of global interest. And their best defence is to claim its ( justice) a cultural thing? Hope the Sarcomato student is home too.

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It's only Francois Zimeray, the French legal team that filed this at the behest of the 'kids'.

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And it ain't going to make a dent in the case - other than exacerbate ghosn's already precarious position.

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It's not politics as usual.

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Ghosn is going to be released!!

Strangerland, read carefully of "fully". Do you know why I add this adverb ?

Yes, because you are a second language speaker, and did not probably realize you were changing the definition.

Do you know I went to Oxford once upon time ?

Wow, you deserve a cookie.

And it appears they need to screen English ability a little deeper.

And a a matter of fact I let you think about whether his release is a total coincidence with his lawyers going to U.N. human rights.....

Good that he has been granted bail. But the last time they said to let him go, the police just arrested him on something else. I wouldn't be surprised to see them take the same tactic this time.

Finally gets bail.

For those of you arguing that going to the UN will worsen his case, just remember that the lawyers are not stupid. They are more experienced than we here parading as street lawyers. International diplomacy works and any action meant to exact pressure on any government does work effectively. No government fears its people but fears outsiders. If it is part of their strategy to get him out, so be it as long as they are not doing anything illegal. I can understand that people will argue that they are putting Japan in a bad spotlight but to whose expense. Rationality does not count when you are pushed to the wall. The prosecutors are doing their thing ,let the defendants do their thing. He cannot be suffering and still be thinking about protecting his captors.

I was abused by Japanese system. But I live in japan. My choice. I have no money. Why he can get special treatment? Bigger room, better food...everybody should be treated the same.

Ascissor, as I said, unlawful here means unrelated to law. I never said it is illegal. To write a letter to UN in this case, is the same as to write a letter to Putin, PR, as simple as that.

A feed is informing Ghosn has been bailed, the conditions ?

A feed is informing Ghosn has been bailed, the conditions ?

BBC and JTimes reporting this.

The court reportedly set bail at one billion yen (£6.8m; $8.9m) and reports said he could be released as early as Tuesday.

whoa! hardball lawyers! nice! definetely earning their defence lawyer salary!

CARLOS must get bailed. It is enough bully , u poor minded Japanese.

japanese MOJ ...oh man, do you look like the fools you are....love it!

Akie and Hiro: you two clearly do not understand the basics of a democratic justice system. Both you have already been fooled into believing Ghosn is already guilty. Do you have evidence? Have you heard counter arguments from the defense? The reason why Japan can detain people on suspicion is because people like you are too naive to challenge such absurdity. Please study the workings of a democratic justice system before making foolish claims of Ghosn’s guilt. It’s rather annoying and does not contribute to the intellectual exchange.

Akie, please refrain from trying to teach native English speakers, English! Your references to an Oxford dictionary mean nothing. You don’t understand the difference between grammar and usage. Nor are you aware of the nuances of English words. I appreciate your willingness to try, but attempting to lecture native speakers is simply arrogant. I would never do that in Japanese, so please do not do that in English.

For the record, the USAGE of “unlawful” represents that which is “illegal” or “against the law.” That English lesson was for free.

So he gets bail. 15 years in jail should be next. But he does have 4 passports. And he can’t be extradited from Lebanon. His house there is worth about 8million.

THIS.

What I have been alerting people (including JT readers) for YEARS, on how literally ANYONE here can have its life in Japan destroyed in literally 1 day by the same system that was supposed to protect its citizens. The scenario is much worse when Immigration is involved.

All the readers who dismissed countless immigration arbitrary treatment articles as "it gotta be a reason for these people to be in a detention center", where are you??

What they've done to Ghosn is exactly the same tactic used every single day with hundreds of people detained at Immigration Centers, lock you up until you give up and accept the consequences of whatever you have NOT done.

So he gets bail. 15 years in jail should be next. 

Why? Because he was arrested by Japanese police? Being arrested is not the standard for deciding whether someone deserves 15 years in prison. (Jail isn't for such long-term stays.)

Germany also has a system that allows very long detention. From an article about Ghosn and Japanese justice:

German law allows suspects to be held for months if a judge rules that they might flee, obstruct justice or pose a danger to society. Rupert Stadler, the chief executive of Volkswagen’s Audi division, was held for almost five months without bail this year after he was heard on a wiretap making statements that prosecutors interpreted as an attempt to obstruct an investigation into emissions cheating.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/19/business/carlos-ghosn-jail.html

All three countries in which Ghosn holds citizenship are noted for very long pretrial detention of foreign nationals. According to British government advisories, you can expect to be held up to 24 months in France, 18 months in Brazil, and indefinitely in Lebanon.

In a notorious case reported in the New York Times, an American was held three years at Rikers Island without trial.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/09/nyregion/kalief-browder-held-at-rikers-island-for-3-years-without-trial-commits-suicide.html

None of these cases produced an appearl to the UN. It is not obvious why the Ghosn case should.

The US system of plea bargains is widely seen as a mechanism for coercing confessions. Just one example from the explicitly liberal Atlantic Monthly.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/innocence-is-irrelevant/534171/

None of this makes the Japanese system good but if people are going to make explicit or implicit comparisons of Japan with other countries or alleged international norms, then it is I think appropriate to offer examples of how "justice" works in reality rather than theory in leading Western countries.

Akie, perhaps you mean - 'not based upon Japan's laws'?

I have been living in Japan for 14 months and I have only just been made aware of this countries evil judicial system! Wow, you can be detained that long on suspicion? I have also noticed the arrogance and rudeness of the police towards foreigners in this country. Japan has only 1 industry left (the rest are dying a slow death) and that is tourism! Please Japan don’t mess that up or you wil have nothing! The saving grace for this country is it’s mostly lovely people! I love Japan but it’s systems need to change quickly.

Ghosen May very well be guilty of corruption and bad business dealings but I don’t know of many businessmen and politicians that aren’t guilty of corruption at some level. Get real people, that’s how the world works! Power breeds corruption! Let those whom without sin cast the first stone!