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Ghosn tells Nikkei arrest due to plot, treason within Nissan

115 Comments
By Yuri Kageyama

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115 Comments
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i think it is going to be difficult for him to prove he was railroaded in a Japanese court.

16 ( +23 / -7 )

Well, until he can actually come up with any proof, more than just talk, he is facing an uphill battle.

-1 ( +17 / -18 )

It's long past time to bring in other execs from Nissan to the prosecutor's office for questioning and possible arrest. However, I doubt that will happen. Instead, expect some other dirt on Ghosn to be leaked from the prosecutor or Nissan in retaliation for this.

28 ( +34 / -6 )

All the evidence against Ghosn has come from Nissan itself.... The U.S. Securities Exchange Commission is now looking into how Nissan is compensating its Executives and they don't mess around. If they can show that Nissan is supplementing income with various benefits and not reporting it... then Nissan is at fault too. And that is what I think is happening. Nissan has dished out various benefits but did not report it. So it comes down to.... legally, in Japan, does Nissan have to report all the various types of compensation or is it only the responsibility of the beneficiary.

25 ( +28 / -3 )

They should have to prove his guilt. Not the other way around.

32 ( +37 / -5 )

Ghosn got too comfortable throughout the years, acted like a dictator and is now paying for it.

Both sides (French and Japanese) were plotting but the Japanese got swift enough and beat them.

The End.

-29 ( +11 / -40 )

It is a pity that French government did nothing or at least try to get discussions through.

13 ( +19 / -6 )

 Ghosn said he had discussed a "plan to integrate" Nissan with Renault and their smaller alliance partner Mitsubishi Motors Corp. with Nissan's CEO, Hiroto Saikawa, in September.

Ghosn said the plan to Hirakawa in September, he got arrested in November. That's a quick move.

If it wasn't not about integration plan, we'll see how Saikawa handle Ghosn replacement when he try to bring again integration plan.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

Well if they keep him locked up and keep finding FRESH charges it won’t matter if he was railroaded.

they will just eventually find some way to make him “ confess “ or be found guilty.

4 ( +13 / -9 )

@Hachidori - Ghosn got too comfortable throughout the years, acted like a dictator and is now paying for it.

Both sides (French and Japanese) were plotting but the Japanese got swift enough and beat them.

The End.

Wow! There’s a twisted sense of reality. I think you should have taken the blue pill.

Yeah, a dictator that brought Nissan back from the brink of bankruptcy after its Japanese management had run it into the ground.

25 ( +31 / -6 )

OMG, treason ? Ghosn must be very mad.

-13 ( +10 / -23 )

The prosecutors acted on an internal secret investigation were given the go ahead by government officials. Now it's on them. He might have been doing things in a gray area but not illegal. As we all know Japanese laws are wishey washey can be interpreted many ways and full of loop holes. Think they have proved a point. Don't ever ever presume to save a Japanese company and expect to be rewarded. Detention is never ending unless the accused admits guilt. The loss of face trumps actual facts. Never thought in 2019 I would see such stupidity outside of China or other despot regimes.

They have punished him enough

13 ( +20 / -7 )

"As we all know Japanese laws are wishey washey can be interpreted many ways and full of loop holes."

Which law isn't ?

-12 ( +10 / -22 )

If this atrocious abuse of justice occurred in any other 'democratic' country, there'd be calls for regime change. But,you know, TIJ

8 ( +16 / -8 )

Obviously, the French govt should have intervened day one and bailed Ghosn out and interrogated him in France, based on the theory of plot and treason.

-7 ( +8 / -15 )

Don't ever ever presume to save a Japanese company and expect to be rewarded. Detention is never ending unless the accused admits guilt. The loss of face trumps actual facts.

In a nutshell.

3 ( +9 / -6 )

Wallace Fred, law has nothing to do with democracy, as simple as that.

-13 ( +7 / -20 )

Why wasn't Nikkei being allowed to interview Ghosn two months ago? Nikkei is basically a pawn being used by the prosecutors to confirm Ghosn's defense strategy and prepare a refutation.

8 ( +16 / -8 )

Akie - "As we all know Japanese laws are wishey washey can be interpreted many ways” - Which law isn't ?

The law that states one is innocent until proven guilty and prosecutors have to prove your guilt. Unlike the Japanese version where you are guilty until you prove your innocence and can be locked up indefinitely without being convicted of any crime. That’s ‘wishy washy’.

21 ( +27 / -6 )

There is a plot, otherwise Ghosn wouldn't be arrested by police. Someone inside Nissan had informed the Japanese authority, no doubt at all.

-1 ( +9 / -10 )

Lindsay, in Japan, you follow Japanese laws, that is called sovereignty.

-20 ( +7 / -27 )

We all know Nissan is part of the old Datsun warlords society. Nothing has changed in Japan. The Warlords still run the show

15 ( +20 / -5 )

Between crime and wrong doing, Ghosn still has some hopes to defend himself. Hire some experienced Japanese lawyers, like those who helped Abe and Akie in the corruption case.

-8 ( +6 / -14 )

Ghosn sounds pretty confident. Any of his wheelings and dealing were apparently signed off by Nissan officials, who are now saying they couldn’t refuse him for Ghosn was their boss. Sounds as responsible as ‘I am drunk and don’t remember a thing’. Ghosn should be praying that Nissan hasn’t ‘misplaced’ or shredded crucial documents regarding this case. They’ve had all the time in the world.

13 ( +16 / -3 )

nissan - betrayers

6 ( +16 / -10 )

Akie:  law has nothing to do with democracy, as simple as that.

This from Stanford University for democracy education in Iraq:

9.  Due Process of Law

What Rights do Citizens Have in the Criminal Justice System?

In a democracy, anyone accused of a crime has the right to a fair, speedy, and public trial.

 Just because someone is accused of a crime does not mean that he loses his rights.  Anyone arrested is presumed innocent until proven guilty.  A person’s guilt must be proved in a court of law, through a fair, speedy, and public trial.  In a democracy, a person accused of a crime has the right to know the charges against him, to remain silent, to have legal representation, to participate in his defense, and to question witnesses for the prosecution.  No person who is acquitted of a crime may be tried again on that charge.  No one—under any circumstance—may ever be subjected to torture, or to cruel and inhuman treatment.  No one may be imprisoned or have their property seized without legal justification.

See also point 8.

https://web.stanford.edu/~ldiamond/iraq/DemocracyEducation0204.htm

10 ( +16 / -6 )

"The sole cause of this chain of events is the misconduct led by Ghosn and Kelly," company spokesman Nicholas Maxfield said. 

I wonder what poor Maxfield says in private, personal capacity.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Well, until he can actually come up with any proof, more than just talk, he is facing an uphill battle.

Well said Yubaru. Unless Ghosn can prove he is innocent of these allegations, he is looking at minimum 20 years in prison. Corporate fraud is comsidered a heinous crime in Japan, as it costs people jobs, savings and livelihood.

-9 ( +9 / -18 )

It is a pity that French government did nothing or at least try to get discussions through.

The french gov has been a disaster dealing with this. Macron has proved himself a spineless coward. Compare and contrast the Canadians and how hard they are trying to free their 2 citizens who were arrested under VERY similar circumstances as Ghosn: for political reasons.

6 ( +15 / -9 )

Use of the word 'treason' seems really narcissistic. Nissan executives owe a fiduciary duty to the shareholders and no-one else. Nobody at Nissan owes a personal duty of loyalty to Carlos Ghosn or any other CEO.

1 ( +12 / -11 )

Lindsay, in Japan, you follow Japanese laws, that is called sovereignty.

Really? And what law is that?

9 ( +18 / -9 )

Still no word from Kelly? Still no outrage? Ghosn must've pissed off the wrong people. This whole detain someone indefinitely really scares me, that should not be possible in a first world country. Everyone should have the opportunity to defend oneself until proven guilty.

10 ( +17 / -7 )

@Akie.... yes, in Japan one has to follow Japanese law.... but that does not mean it is right or that you're not getting screwed. Based on many different comments I've read by foreigners that have been screwed in Japan, Japanese law is left up to interpretation and is often based on if you're apologetic even though you might not be wrong. For some reason the law in Japan is on a power trip.... you better suck up to them because if you don't you will spend a long time in detention.... oh yeah... and you'd better confess. In Western countries.... no matter how much crap you give the police, they can only hold you for a determined amount of time. They might rough you up a bit but they have to follow a rigid set of laws that is not left up to interpretation.

13 ( +19 / -6 )

Akie: law has nothing to do with democracy, as simple as that.

What a ridiculous statement. Democracy is built on a foundation of law. That's like saying people have nothing to do with cells.

16 ( +22 / -6 )

Why does he get room upgrade, and now free speech? Every other person don’t get these rights. Fishy.

-8 ( +7 / -15 )

BINGO!! See this in another light, Carlos is a fighter and is INOCENT, he is going through each day wanting to expose the corruption, Saikawa and others plotting breaking the alliance and him. I'm also starting to think Kelly just said anything to slide out and be free, when he could of been more of a man to expose them and hang in there also.

-1 ( +9 / -10 )

@darknuts,

They should have to prove his guilt. Not the other way around.

Oh, that's exactly what they are working to do.

You know, like:

-- Keeping him detained indefinitely to put pressure on him to "confess.

-- Keeping him detained indefinitely so that the police and prosecutors can drip drip leak information to try him in media without him really being able to fight back.

-- Keeping him detained indefinitely so he is not able to freely meet with counsel and prepare for his own defense.

All of these things to maximize him being found "guilty" at the show trial to come.

What a sham!

9 ( +17 / -8 )

.

There is just too much hard, concrete evidence of Ghosn's misappropriation of moneys for him be be convincing.

.

He has put himself above the law. and fell on his own sword.

.

-15 ( +8 / -23 )

Authorities have rejected Ghosn's requests for bail, saying he might tamper with evidence or possibly flee.

They keep saying this, even though he would not be allowed to step foot on Nissan unsupervised if he were free. By this logic there is also a strong chance that they have given Nissan execs more than ample opportunity to also tamper with evidence. Not hard to draw multiple conclusions that all point to moral corruption...

The newspaper said Ghosn did not appear tired or flustered and when asked about his health, he said he was "doing fine."

It's quite sickening that a 'government authorized' newspaper is granted access to him and write their 'government approved' story about him. Personally, unless I see him talking on camera, and not under duress, then any 'exclusive interviews' with him are just more government-sanctioned propaganda.

Ghosn got too comfortable throughout the years, acted like a dictator and is now paying for it.

The point is not whether or not he is a nice guy, or even a fair leader. The point is due process (bold, underlined)! If this is the precedent, there is nothing to stop the next vigilante community group in your area having you detained indefinitely on charges without any evidence. Think, think about it.

I never have bought Nissan before, but due to this entire event - I will never even consider buying Nissan again in my entire lifetime. I will be happy to see them go financially bankrupt - matching the condition of their morality.

13 ( +20 / -7 )

Akie, it is insufficient to simply say “in Japan, you follow Japanese laws.” No one is questioning Japan’s sovereignty. People are questioning its justness. If one’s fundamental right to innocence until proven guilty is ignored, you effectively can accuse anyone of anything, and provided you can convince enough people of authority to agree, you can convict a person for any reason. This is precisely what happened in the Salem Witch Trials, a case study every attorney (including Japanese attorneys) should be familiar with. This historical event, where several girls accuse people of being witches and having them put to death without a fair trial is precisely what the Japanese judicial system is doing. By its logic, anyone can accuse a person, and place the burden of proof on the accused. This in no way can withstand the logic of fair reasoning, as not all individuals who are simply accused are actually guilty of such accusations. Furthermore, the methods used by the Japanese justice system is designed to inflict emotional and psychological stress by isolating the person from society (including family) for long periods of time in substandard living conditions and subjecting the individual to lengthy interrogations without legal representation. This is all designed to illicit a confession — a technique Japan has used effectively throughout its feudal history. Just because these are long held traditions does not make them fair or just.

15 ( +22 / -7 )

"The sole cause of this chain of events is the misconduct led by Ghosn and Kelly," company spokesman Nicholas Maxfield said.

Ahh, yes, wheel out the very junior gaijin spokesperson who has been at Nissan less than 3 years.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

Completely agree with AgrentX. Everyone should stay focused on the due process, not the man. And Ghosn knows this as well. No one should be quick to assume his guilt, regardless of what Nissan or the persecution says. Until now we not been given an opportunity to see and hear the defense’s complete case. By assuming Ghosn’s guilt at this point is precisely what the prosecution wants — to make Ghosn guilty by public opinion, hence, making it easier to convict him, whether he can be proven guilty or not.

12 ( +18 / -6 )

He and Kelly were lured to Japan by Nissan executives to be arrested under the guise of a fake meeting. What more proof of a plot against them do people need?

5 ( +14 / -9 )

HJSLLS - faithfully put.

Many here do understand Japan has laws like any country does, but it's the interpretation and justness as you put it of those laws.

And AgentX's comments are also at the core of this -

*"..The point is not whether or not he is a nice guy, or even a fair leader. The point is *due process .."

And the system is against everyone - foreign or Japanese. The endless detention to force a confession has seen any number of people wrongfully imprisoned over the years. Innocence is just a word to be toyed with at the discretion of the prosecutors.

And I don't understand why posters on here think that the system is good. I'm supposing they are right wing in their views upholding the questionable virtues of a Meiji-era justice system, and don't mind pouring hate on the good ordinary citizens of Japan who are powerless in the crush of such a system.

This is all about Ghosn's case - and see how it's progressing. The little people ( incl foreigners) of Japan will never win the battle against the Triad of Govt, Police & Media. A sham of democracy.

10 ( +17 / -7 )

Look at this from another angle also. No one in the history of our country has done this. Generally Japanese who are innocent say whatever, fake bow and say what the Prosecutors want them to say, as Kelly the coward did to slide out. But Ghosn has proven his innocent and wants to fight the system that's betrayed him, his subordinates, amongst others. Thats a real man in my opinion and I hope to see protests soon.

3 ( +14 / -11 )

YubaruToday 

Well, until he can actually come up with any proof, more than just talk, he is facing an uphill battle.

You mean just like they do in the japanese justice system?

2 ( +8 / -6 )

One should never surrender and always prove their innocence, our country has proved there is no democracy post WW2, do we follow the American written constitution here of course not.

No retreat no surrender, hold onto the vision! as the song goes:

https://youtu.be/rcThFswcLB0

-1 ( +10 / -11 )

All he needs too do is bow and say so sorry. Just like everybody else in Japan.

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

Trying to convince someone who has been ingrained from birth to be obedient, the rules are above reason, do whatever the sempai says no matter how ridiculous, that there not only exists hierarchies of people in the world ( often quite disfunctional ones ) but that there is actually a HIREARCHIES OF IDEAS too is the underlying challenge here. These ideas are in constant motion and go through the furnace of human intellect, reason and will. It’s why debate is so healthy! It’s a win win for everyone when you can face the fact that you maybe ( and most probably are! ) wrong about many of your dear held beliefs. The “This is Japan” argument , sho ga naiyo type dismissals that we see are an unfortunate biproduct of the dangers of group think and collectivism. A stubborn refusal to budge on what to the rest of the world ( bar the radical leftists who want to see anyone rich dethroned in any way possible no matter what ) sees as clearly an unfair and archaic judiciary.

99 percent conviction rate says it all. No mere mortal gets to be right all the time! It just doesn’t work like that. Please come to the table, it’s not half as bad as you think. Structural change maybe hard, and expediency maybe enticing, but the lack of change is the eventual killer! Always the optimist though, reckon they’ll work it out, eventually! Respect is the prize.

7 ( +14 / -7 )

HJSLLS, Japan is a rule and law based tribe since 2000 years ago, long before democracy ever appeared on the planet. Ghosn is lucky to have a bed upgraded for him. 1000 years ago, he would be treated very differently, by law, Japanese law.

-13 ( +6 / -19 )

Akie, the problem is the judicial process. Japan has not logically evaluated the concept of “due process” and fairness for the exact reason you mentioned — that Japan has established a set of rules thousands of years ago which have not evolved into a mature judicial system. The other part of the problem is the failure of individuals like yourself to objectively evaluate what fairness and due process is. Instead you are simply defending an already flawed system with no interest in making progress.

10 ( +15 / -5 )

HJSLLS, what fairness ? At least Ghosn is charged for what he did wrong, unlike some other people in this planet were charged for doing nothing wrong.

-9 ( +6 / -15 )

People are mixing up different things :

1°) because Ghosn "saved" Nissan back then, how is it a justification to steal money ? These are 2 separate matters.

2°) Nissan Japanese executives at the time couldn't come with the idea of firing thousands of employees, shutting down many factories and thus litterally destroying the economic fabric of many cities (with direct and indirect employment).

Ghosn could have made these choices, without a single twinge of regret, and has put a lot a money in his pockets. So, Ghosn "saved" Nissan, but at what cost !

3)° whether there was a plot or not against Ghosn, it doesn't give any answers on whatever he is being accused of : again, they are 2 different matters.

By the way, as we are talking about plot.

How many know here that just before Ghosn's arrest, Ghosn himself was about to oust Hiroto Saikawa, officially because sales in the USA were lower than what Ghosn was expecting. And unofficially certainly because Hiroto Saikawa was the leading opposition to the merger with Renault.

Oh by the way, how many here knows that Ghosn has ousted 3 Nissan directors, falsely accusing them of spying ? They must have disagree with Ghosn on something at a given time, and they were simply fired with a delusional charge of spying !

That's probably how Ghosn could have engineered everything with an inner circle of people of slavish loyalty. So, of course, a very few and only a very few of Nissan executives were informed of Ghosn's wrongdoings, but they would just shut up for the sake of their wages... until someone whistled the end of the game.

Who's the dictator ? Who's the victim ? Even without what Tokyo prosecutors have to say against Ghosn, Ghosn is clearly no saint, with at least very questionable morals.

-6 ( +13 / -19 )

Yeah, a dictator that brought Nissan back from the brink of bankruptcy after its Japanese management had run it into the ground.

Capital Tie-up, business partnership did, not him in person except slashing the personnel into bloody bath.

1 ( +9 / -8 )

John, needless to say that I have full confidence in Japanese laws and all decisions based on them.

-12 ( +9 / -21 )

@HJSLLS,

Akie, the problem is the judicial process.

And THAT is what so many of us object to in this case and in general in Japan.

However, for me, it is not limited just to Japan and Ghosn!

Look, the State and their police and prosecutors always have the advantage, no matter what country it is. And that includes countries in "the West".

They have unlimited resources, paid for by the state (and, thus, by taxpayers).

They are generally very close to those in the judicial system and so are, generally, given the benefit of the doubt.

For example, in the U.S., rogue prosecutors have been known to hide evidence, use threats of prosecution to force witnesses to lie, and, in some cases, actually manufacture evidence in order to get convictions.

The only chance that suspects / defendants have to have a fighting chance is for the system to presume their innocence and protect their rights as much as possible.

And I say this as no fan of Ghosn, the person (as opposed to Ghosn, the businessperson).

0 ( +7 / -7 )

At least Ghosn is charged for what he did wrong,

It has yet to be proven that he has done anything illegal.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Bloomberg was reporting that the Ghosn situation was part of a coup in November.

> “It’s a coup,” said Tatsuo Yoshida, an analyst at Sawakami Asset Management, who used to work at Nissan. “Ghosn’s era is over.”

The removal follows probes by Nissan and Japanese authorities into alleged financial misconduct by long-time leader Ghosn, with Chief Executive Officer Hiroto Saikawa emerging as a driving force behind the investigation. Prior to his surprise arrest in Tokyo on Monday, Ghosn had been preparing to push for a full merger of Nissan with French partner Renault, which he also heads as CEO and chairman. That combination plan has faced resistance from Saikawa, who Ghosn in the past presented as his protege.

Without Ghosn at the head of Nissan’s board, a merger looks very unlikely. The charismatic French-Brazilian executive was architect and linchpin of the two-decade-old alliance, created as an attempt to add heft against global rivals. Ghosn’s arrest has now laid bare resentments that have built as the Japanese and French sides alternated successes and struggles over the years.

Lately, the structure has become increasingly controversial in Japan due to Nissan’s strong financial performance. Although it’s generally outgrown Renault in sales and profits, the Japanese company has far less influence within the alliance. It owns a 15 percent non-voting stake in Renault, which in turn owns 43 per cent of Nissan

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Folks, get on with your lives. Some people will forever be stuck on the broken record of "Well, this is Japan. So follow its rules. And it has a long history, and so that must mean the rules are good." (Oh, never mind its long history is filled with sexism, imperialism, human-experimentation, etc., etc. Long history = good for eternity)

3 ( +10 / -7 )

Why was he suddenly allowed to be interviewed and speak his mind? Did someone blink?

11 ( +12 / -1 )

It was obvious since the beginning but it was important to continue character assassination. This will continue to be a warning to all

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Why was he suddenly allowed to be interviewed and speak his mind? Did someone blink?

Because it suits the Government's narrative. Do you think the "interview" was conducted in Japanese, as per the rules?

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

If Nissan holds all the evidence, what is to stop them having fabricated or selectively destroyed it? Has the prosecutors' office obtained search warrants and staged a raid at Nissan HQ I haven't heard about? He is clearly being railroaded.

2 ( +11 / -9 )

Akie, it’s clear you cannot look at this matter objectively. To say you have the full faith in the laws of Japan (or any nation) means you don’t recognize how laws are created — by people (with all of our flaws). To blindly trust the laws of any nation allows that nation to keep flawed laws as processes that are not objectively fair. Don’t be part of the problem.

4 ( +12 / -8 )

AkieToday 10:34 am JST

John, needless to say that I have full confidence in Japanese laws and all decisions based on them.

Let's just hope that you don't find yourself on the wrong side of the table someday.  Because you are as vunerable as any one of us living here.  Here's to having your fingers crossed.

S

1 ( +9 / -8 )

The fact is that Japan is the most obedient nation in G7, not the most abusive one.

-1 ( +9 / -10 )

Even if Ghosn goes down, I hope he can rip through Nissan management and take a lot of them with him. No way he was able to do all the alleged acts himself, and just saying that "my boss ordered me to do something illegal" is not an excuse. I will relish seeing Saikawa in jail.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

HJSLLS, what is wrong to have a full confidence in laws ? Is it right to have full confidence in anarchy ?

-3 ( +9 / -12 )

Why does he get room upgrade, and now free speech? Every other person don’t get these rights. Fishy.

Interesting you should say that. Only yesterday a Toyama city assembly chairman who was sent to prosecutors for "allegedly defrauded the city of around 700,000 yen by falsifying receipts" had the chance to hold a press conference to deny the allegation. When did Ghosn get his press conference?

1 ( +8 / -7 )

Reckless

It is character demonization by the gov here to win public support, there is no case.. for now more than two months, they have not questioned no accountants, CFO, nothin, everything Carlos did is by the book, for a public trading company, shareholders have access to every yen spent.. hes been with the company beyond 20 years, thats 2 decades!

He is a national icon, so the way for Saikawa to win and break free from this big alliance, is purely a setup, character assassination.. this has been happening here for centuries.. since edo..

Defame the victor, youre subordinate claims victory and destroys your original expansion plans.. all for the sake of fake pride..

4 ( +13 / -9 )

@AkieToday  10:34 am JST

"John, needless to say that I have full confidence in Japanese laws and all decisions based on them."

This statement gave me a good laugh - are you serious?

Or maybe you are just teasing us or maybe joking ??

0 ( +9 / -9 )

John - I think you are mixing up things as you put it.

The majority of posters here are NOT talking about Ghosn's corporate history so as to speak. Whether he cut jobs to make on-the-verge-of-bankruptcy-Nissan profitable again is not up in this discussion.

They are instead concerned with the democratic notions of "Innocent until proven guilty", "a fair and due process", "habeas corpus", "right to express an opinion", "right for bail" etc, etc.

At this point in time you do not know if Ghosn is guilty or not of anything illegal. Maybe or Maybe not. Time will tell.

3 ( +11 / -8 )

The Nissan treason and plot?

Ghosn sees no reason why the Nissan treason should ever be forgot

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

At least Ghosn is charged for what he did wrong, unlike some other people in this planet were charged for doing nothing wrong.

oh just like those Japanese that were forced into confessions and spent decades in jail for wrongful convictions. Ghosn hasn't been found guilty of anything, only accusations, accusations don't = guilty in any first world democracy, so as it stands now Ghosn is innocent until the prosecutors show evidence in court of his guilt, yet he is still imprisoned without bail for these accusations.

They should have to prove his guilt. Not the other way around.

once in Japanese detention its guilty until proven guilty.

J prosecutors are far from perfect , apart from forced confessions, they have also been proven to tamper with evidence

2 ( +12 / -10 )

@ John

.

Most insightful, contextually relevant post i n this thread.

.

Thank you

-4 ( +7 / -11 )

Only yesterday a Toyama city assembly chairman who was sent to prosecutors for "allegedly defrauded the city of around 700,000 yen by falsifying receipts"

and why isnt she in detention!! shes still working in her job and could easily destroy evidence. oh I forgot Japanese would never do that type of thing.. LOL

6 ( +15 / -9 )

John

°1) because Ghosn "saved" Nissan back then, how is it a justification to steal money ? These are 2 separate matters.

.

YES ! True.

.

2°) *Nissan Japanese executives .... couldn't come with the idea of firing thousands of employees, shutting down many factories and thus literally destroying the economic fabric of many cities (with direct and indirect employment).*

*Ghosn could have made these choices, without a single twinge of regret, and has put a lot a money in his pockets. So, *Ghosn "saved" Nissan, but at what cost !

.

Excellent point !

Too often under reported !!!

.

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

Who's the dictator ? Who's the victim ? Even without what Tokyo prosecutors have to say against Ghosn, Ghosn is clearly no saint, with at least very questionable morals. that could easily be applied to many Japaense CEOs in Japan, yet with all the scandals , money stolen over the years, how many have been sent to detention, how many convicted and sent to prision!? you could probably count them on one hand.

2 ( +13 / -11 )

John

By the way, as we are talking about plot.

*(1) Ghosn himself was about to oust Hiroto Saikawa, officially because sales in the USA were lower than what Ghosn was expecting. And unofficially certainly because Hiroto Saikawa was the leading opposition to the merger with Renault*..

.

Ghosn, a master at complicity - so that is the why he restores his current situation as a 'plot & treason'

.

.

(2) *Oh by the way, how many here knows that Ghosn has ousted 3 Nissan directors, falsely accusing them of spying ? . . . . they were simply fired with a delusional charge of spying* !

.

Yes. That happened in France with Renault.

And after the Execs were fired, Renault did a through investigation and found they were innocent.

There is very deep sentiment of distaste for Ghosn in Renault And iN France because of this situation (contrary to what some J media want to portray)

.

.

(3)* That's probably how Ghosn could have engineered everything with an inner circle of people of slavish loyalty. So, of course, a very few and only a very few of Nissan executives were informed of Ghosn's wrongdoings, but they would just shut up for the sake of their wages... until someone whistled the end of the game. Who's the dictator ?*

.

.

You got it, John.

People just need to do a little research and the FACTS are there.

And once the prosecution is done wringing the complicit Nissan execs dry for information, they will also be sued and fired.

.

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

@ wtfjapan

Maybe, but we are talking about Ghosn. The cases of other COE don't really matter in this topic.

It's not because other CEO are vilains that Ghosn wrongdoings become acceptable.

-5 ( +7 / -12 )

@kenji. He was arrested...fact.

-6 ( +8 / -14 )

Goodlucktoyou

AND? does that mean anyone arrested these days is guilty? where is the financial statements from the CFO to back these defamation testaments..

Do you know how many innocent Japanese are locked up for no reason?? of course you dont know.

You believe in to much of our negative media...

One example on how the media can shape peoples opinion by lies:

It is no different to the Iraq war for example, WMD news everyday, yeah where was that exactly??? NONE, all a scam to win public support for that war to begin with is Saddam that bad? post Saddam, isis and multiple countries invading.. he kept them in check at least..

3 ( +10 / -7 )

There are two problems:

The Japanese legal system is totally messed up, which affects mainly Japanese accused but also sometimes non-Japanese persons like Ghosn.

Although the authorities are going by the book with Ghosn, they often do not go by the book with other accused, most of whom naturally are Japanese. The only reasons given, flight risk and evidence tampering, are laughably meritless and the 'flight risk' one is clearly code for 'non-Japanese'.

Nobody on here is in a position to offer arguments about innocence or guilt, because nobody knows anything. People claiming to know are lying or making stuff up.

There should a fair trial to determine innocence or guilt. Incarceration of this kind reduces the chances of a fair trial considerably.

4 ( +15 / -11 )

Maybe, but we are talking about Ghosn. The cases of other COE don't really matter in this topic.

actually it does matter , because in democratic countries the law should be applied equally across all people regardless of their wealth, position , nationality or race. but as Ghosn case and many other high profile cases in Japan has shown its clearly isnt.

3 ( +13 / -10 )

@kenji. He was arrested...fact.

arrested doesnt equal guilty and certainly doesnt equal a guilty verdict , not until a judge or jury has convicted him, so legally speaking Ghosn is now innocent until undeniable proof is shown in court to get a guilty verdict. FACT

2 ( +11 / -9 )

I think we should all be concerned if we are living in a country where someone can be locked up for months at a time without any opportunity to present their case whatsoever.

exactly, what many cant seem to understand in prosecutors DONT have the power to declare a person guilty, only a judge or jury can do that. Prosecutors DO have the power to compile evidence to present to a court to try and obtain a guilty verdict. So the question stands if J prosecutors have so much irrefutable evidence then why the need for continued detention and lengthy interrogations of a legally speaking innocent man

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

wtfjapan ... because in democratic countries the law should be applied equally across all people regardless of their wealth, position , nationality or race.

.

Well ------ dream on !

.

Tell me ONE 'democratic' country where the law is applied EQUALLY with no discrimination regarding rich & poor, race, wealth, family status. ....?

.

In Japan the list of illustrious, wealthy entrepreneurs detained ( ultimately charged and sentenced) for long periods of time for white collar crimes is VERY long.

.

It seems , actually, the VERY rich are less likely to get away with it in Japan than they are in other 'democratic' countries.

-3 ( +8 / -11 )

Akie

*HJSLLS, what is wrong to have a full confidence in laws ? Is it right to have full confidence in *anarchy ?

.

You're so smart !

Excellent point.

0 ( +8 / -8 )

@Akie

So you are saying you would be more than happy to be held in detention for something you didn't do, if someone brought false charges against you.. As that is the law, you are guilty until you can prove you are innocent.

For example if I was to report to the police you threatened my life with a gun and said you were going to kill me, then you got arrested you are more than happy to have to prove yourself innocent against my charges, and the police don't need to prove your guilt, as you are by default guilty.

3 ( +10 / -7 )

After this revelation I wonder how many MD's and senior executives are hitting the delete button on their laptops and computers this morning?

9 ( +10 / -1 )

@Akie Oh right, the Japanese follow their own system of sovereign law, which is perfect for Japan. Of course, that's why they moved to copy the western system by introducing the jury system several years ago. Wait, by doing that does it mean that the Japanese system is not whole and perfect?

0 ( +6 / -6 )

semperfiToday  04:08 pm JST

Akie

*HJSLLS, what is wrong to have a full confidence in laws ? Is it right to have full confidence in *anarchy ?

.

You're so smart !

So smart? I can't work out if this is or is not sarcasm .

The implication that there are only two alternatives - 1) complete confidence in each and every one of a country's laws and procedures and 2) a desire to do away with all laws and have total anarchy - is possibly one of the silliest things I have ever seen on JT.

Akie: why would you imply that questioning some aspects of criminal procedure in Japan is the same thing as wishing there were no laws at all?

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

@semperfi You dream on. The list of rich and wealthy who are jailed are only the ones that the network of more powerful and wealthy say to jail. It's all rigged and it's based on who you are and who you know. Horie was jailed not just because the law didn't care he was rich. It was because the old boys network wanted it. The guys behind the scandal at Olympus got 3 year sentences BUT all suspended up to 5 years - because they are part of the network. But go ahead and ignore what you want to ignore.

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

Hoping this interview will be a break through

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

semmperfi - you're clutching at straws. Disposable ones at that. It's so funny.

Why don't you focus on what most posters actually are stating - they are interested in the lack of due process, regardless of guilt vs innocence. Not a cherry picked attack on a person you know zilch about.

Why do you anti- the Common-Japanese posters on here consistently support the Govt and Authorities against such ordinary folks. So many helpless people have been wrongfully imprisoned by such a system, including foreigners. Why don't you speak out against the injustices being served on the salt of the earthers?

It's the system that's broken and many (including Ghosn) are suffering needlessly. If he's guilty (and any other common people) let a just process decide. Why do you hate people so much?

The Magna Carta introduced the concept of Habeas Corpus 800 years ago. The authorities haven't caught up with that one yet.

-1 ( +10 / -11 )

Plots and treason now? Does Ghosn think he's a nation state or a monarch? I wouldn't put it past him.

What a fool this person has turned out to be, jail him already. He's boring now.

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

How about just having a trial. The prosecution claims to have enough evidence to warrant his continued detention so have a proper trial and dish out whatever prosecution is deemed appropriate.

Ghosn has a valid point about evidence tampering. I would be worried about Nissan tampering with evidence that could convict some of their existing Directors or possibly demonstrate they are accomplices.

Regardless...get this thing over with and if things are as straight forward as the prosecution is saying it would seem this would go quickly

2 ( +7 / -5 )

Quick down votes. I am assuming some would rather not have a trial and just send him to prison without due process?

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Carlos cannot have done this by himself. Nissan whistle blowers are definitely involved. These whistle blowers are liars. Anyone can see that. Just stop treating a foreigner like Carlos badly. There must be so much false evidence that Nissan is afraid that Carlos go to court in the public. What bad cowards these Japanese people in Nissan are. Anyone with a sense of fairness should quit Nissan before they lose their dignity. Anyway, Nissan and Japan inc will disappear one day.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

The stench of corruption is nauseating.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

Why was he suddenly allowed to be interviewed and speak his mind? Did someone blink?

Someone took a bona fide nap.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The West is very quickly coming to the realization that globalism without a level playing field is a loser’s game. Trump’s spirited defence of American interests against the Chinese is the template that should guide all dealings with nations that insist on having their cake and eating it. Japan insists on medieval justice a la Ghosn, that’s their prerogative. It’s a repugnant concept, but it serves its purpose, quarantining Japan from having to make concessions. One wonders just how loathe they would be to tamper with this winning formula if the West decided to play hardball and incorporate into Western legal process quid pro quo denial of basic legal protections for arrested Japanese.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

This entire spectical is a complete farce and anyone with half a brain can see exactly what is going on. This has all been decided behind closed doors even before there is a trial. This entire debacle has been orchestrated to ensure Ghosn cannot interfere with Nissans move to break free of Renault or grasp at more autonomy and to keep it as a Japanese company based purely on pride and nothing else. I honestly hope Nissan begins its downfall and slides back down into obscurity and bankruptcy from whenst it came. The workers and shareholders of the company will then only have one person to blame...the current self appointed CEO. Talk about killing the goose that laid the golden egg!

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Ghosn was Nissan's employee, so Nissan has the right to charge him for wrong doing under Japanese laws. Unlike other nations to arrest people arbitrarily, Japan didn't charge French president for what Ghosn did, though Ghosn did work for France. Law is law, belief is belief, the two are not the same. It is very dangerous to mix laws with belief. Japanese law isn't abusive in nature, as simple as that.

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

There is no way he would get any money without their lawyers approving everything. Even a CEO cannot pay himself. It doesn't even matter that people were fired in France, if it did he would have been fired because of it and he wasn't. It's obvious that it's a power play to take back the company by the very same people that let it run into the ground in the first place. There is no HR department that is just going to approve someone buying homes or pay for remodeling without some corporate approval. Having been given my own credit cards, working for a company that has international business in more countries than they do their own internal checks and balances should have prevented any money from leaving the company that wasn't approved. You don't get nothing past accountings lawyers, the HR lawyers, or the Chief Counsel unless the company approved it.

So if he was getting money past them it was through employees manipulating data within the company which they can easily do now that he is physically gone. It doesn't take much to change file dates or manipulate server data. So they are going to have to be providing more than just the local evidence to prove anything. Especially if the people that masterminded the coup had access to move assets around without him being directly involved. What's eventually going to happen is that diplomatic relations are going to put Japan, France and the US at odds with each other for holding him for so long. They could easily get the U.N. involved even if he was guilty because of the fact he was supposed to have surgery. They knew he was going to be on leave for a while which is why they setup his capture. If they overpaid him money that is on the company.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Wallace Fred, law has nothing to do with democracy, as simple as that.

In the world of the 21st century, democratically elected lawmakers pass laws. What century are you living in?

3 ( +5 / -2 )

jpn-guy

The implication that there are only two alternatives

Of course there is a continuum of socio-political 'systems' that operate between complet despotic rule and anarchy.

.

However on this issue, individuals who do not agree with the prosecution & detainment of Ghosn fall into the extreme ( almost fanaticism) of categorically denouncing the J legal system as being categorically unjust, un fair.

.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

The West is very quickly coming to the realization that globalism without a level playing field is a loser’s game.

Very true.

Trump’s spirited defence of American interests against the Chinese is the template that should guide all dealings with nations that insist on having their cake and eating it.

Absolutely

Japan insists on medieval justice a la Ghosn, that’s their prerogative. It’s a repugnant concept, but it serves its purpose, quarantining Japan from having to make concessions. One wonders just how loathe they would be to tamper with this winning formula if the West decided to play hardball and incorporate into Western legal process quid pro quo denial of basic legal protections for arrested Japanese.

Or even better- put tariffs on Japanese products until they adhere to basic human rights standards.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

@semperfi Oh, of course a system that allows prosecutors do dangle and string out charges just so they can reset the detention period is just and fair. Sounds legit to me. A system that also lets the defense have a massive head start in collecting evidence or altering it or destroying while the accused is unable to do anything to plan their own defense is obviously not unfair either. That is such a level playing field. wow.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

According to CNBC, "a number of industry executives — as well as some Nissan insiders — are asking whether the Brazilian-born Ghosn has actually become a pawn in an increasingly bitter dispute between France's Renault and Nissan over control of their global empire, according to interviews with at least a half-dozen people close to Nissan, the alliance or Ghosn himself. They asked not to be named because they still have strong ties to the industry or directly to Nissan."

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Sure enough Carlos is victim of a plot..it has been obvious from the very beginning and it reminds Khordokosky's arrest by Putin' special forces ...not a very good example of democracy !!!

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I forgot to add : even though the French government does not seem to be part of the plot it's deafening silence on the issue makes one think that this government has no spine since the plot was obvious from the start CQFD

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Carlos, do not help Nissan anymore, just speak the truth of what U have done in yr career with Nissan. From my 32 years of working with greedy Japanese, these Japanese will do anything to frame U. I am seeing this in my office even to-day. They blame U for everything but actually they are the ones spending yr hard earned Nissan money. Pls fight hard to remove all back-stabbers from Nissan. This is the only way, all good people in Nissan can be alive and U save yrself. No fear, god and his angels and yr family knows the truth. Getting rid of evidence ???. I can tell u one of those people is saikawa. He is the s.o.b, not suitable to any normal Japanese. What he says now is of no value to wise Japanese. We know.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Akie, you state: “The fact is that Japan is the most obedient nation in G7, not the most abusive one.”

Of course Japan is the most obedient (and not in a good way). When the criminal justice system can detain you for months over the suspicion of wrongdoing or for a small infraction, citizens are literally terrified to do anything that might draw societal criticism. In Japan, ‘The nail that stands up gets hammered down.’ Whatcwe are witnessing is that the Japanese criminal justice system is the ultimate ‘hammer.’ And it has turned its citizens into compliant individuals who either feel powerless to defy it or see no reason to even question its authority at all.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Carlos, pls make sure U stay healthy and go to court and just tell yr side as it is. I know how tired U can be but yr case gives us ,foreigners very deep insight into Japanese Nissan & Japan as a whole..Pls stay health , eat well and never give up. Good people will help u. I hope that we will meet one day.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

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