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Japanese prosecutors say they will detain Ghosn as long as needed

105 Comments
By Mari Yamaguchi

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Putting Japan’s infamous hold em and hold em strategy out for everyone else to see.

It is effective for the guilty especially, but it’s a crusher for the innocent and an abuse of power for those who hold it.

26 ( +34 / -8 )

Barbaric

21 ( +32 / -11 )

Japanese prosecutors said Thursday they will detain former Nissan chairman Carlos Ghosn for as long as is needed to finish their...

...forced confession.

23 ( +31 / -8 )

There's a global power struggle happening for control of Nissan.

Ghosn has to be kept out of the picture and this is the best way to do it.

8 ( +19 / -11 )

Just long enough to get all new Japanese people to fill and train Nissans vacant positions, then he will magically pay a large fine and be sent on his merry way, only to return one year later serving Nissan with the largest lawsuit ever filed by a foreign C.E.O. resulting in more embarrassment and scandal for Japan and the Japanese business community. Nissan will then learn the real meaning of "honne tatemae"

14 ( +26 / -12 )

Hey kukimoto

"Japan is a law-abiding country and this is the way our justice system works. I don't see any problem with that," Kukimoto said. "Each country has its own history and culture ... It is not appropriate to criticize a system in another country just because it's different from your own."

I have been here more than 2 decades I’m a permanent resident running a business here and like Japan. You’re system is barbaric and the international business community can clearly see what you’re doing. Holding someone for weeks with no charges and interrogation without a lawyer present does not happen in a civilized society

21 ( +33 / -12 )

One of the most barbaric and primitive Justice systems in the World.

This is very very shameful for Japan and I really hope some good will come out of this with Hague lawsuits and more embarassment for the Japanese ‘Justice’ system...

Shamefull indeed.

11 ( +25 / -14 )

"Japan is a law-abiding country and this is the way our justice system works. I don't see any problem with that," Kukimoto said. "Each country has its own history and culture ... It is not appropriate to criticize a system in another country just because it's different from your own."

If it's such a fair system you wouldn't have to defend it? Don't think playing the history culture card is a winning argument. Indefinite detention without being charged, interrogated without a lawyer present. Then straight faced boast we can hold him until he admits what they have no evidence of.

Thank you Mr Ghosn for exposing globally a Medieval justice system.

18 ( +28 / -10 )

What Tokyo-Engr said. Regardless on how you feel about Ghosn or Nissan I'm sure everyone can agree that Japan's so-called justice system is deeply flawed. Perhaps the increased awareness and attn. that results from this scandal will lead to change. Long odds, I know. I'm sure the Kempeitai used similar practices.

12 ( +22 / -10 )

The fact of the matter is many Japanese people have also been a victim of this joke of a legal system. Many Japanese have been jailed for long sentences based on this process. Some have been later found innocent

the so called 99% conviction rate is shameful. Not something to brag about

22 ( +30 / -8 )

This does not only happen to foreigners. In this case the practice appears to be for the advancement of Japan Inc. use a foreigner to revive a failing Japanese Corporation and then use this system to keep him locked up to steal the company back. This is the sentiment of nearly all the foreign business community in Japan and those that deal with Japan overseas.

Read about Keiko Aoki

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2016/10/japan-forced-confessions-wrong-convictions-161010084400226.html

Or others here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7063316.stm

10 ( +18 / -8 )

"Japan is a law-abiding country and this is the way our justice system works. I don't see any problem with that," Kukimoto said. "Each country has its own history and culture ... It is not appropriate to criticize a system in another country just because it's different from your own."

The old ‘us vs. them’ argument that conveniently ignores the fact that there are many Japanese who also argue that the system of arbitrarily long pre-indictment detentions is a human rights violation.

13 ( +20 / -7 )

In his unheated cell and barefoot, Carlos Ghosn must be developing a deep hatred of the Japanese legal system.

I personally fail to see what this torture will accomplish....

9 ( +17 / -8 )

Agree with all the above. Japan's justice system is as backward and barbaric as you get. What really gets me is how the international community and the international maistream news has not done enough to hold Japan's feet to the flames.

8 ( +16 / -8 )

Agree with all the above. Japan's justice system is as backward and barbaric as you get. What really gets me is how the international community and the international maistream news has not done enough to hold Japan's feet to the flames.

Because in the larger scope of things in the world, Japans "niche" business society can never really compete with whats happening now. Japan is slowly becoming obsolete.

7 ( +13 / -6 )

"Japan is a law-abiding country and this is the way our justice system works. I don't see any problem with that," Kukimoto said

Law-abiding? How about Olympus, Toshiba and others?

13 ( +21 / -8 )

"Each country has its own history and culture ... It is not appropriate to criticize a system in another country just because it's different from your own."

That, of course, is not actually what anyone ever criticises the Japanese justice system for.

5 ( +12 / -7 )

This depravity of justice shows why bullying in Japan is not limited to schools. It is a standard of Japanese society.

6 ( +14 / -8 )

As long as needed ? What kind of law is that ?

8 ( +17 / -9 )

Set him free and confiscate his passport. He can be interrogated all you'd luck during the day but eat and sleep in a manner to which he's accustomed.

4 ( +14 / -10 )

So, what I’ve taken away from this article is that it is possible to keep someone on remand indefinitely provided that you add a new charge every twenty days.

How utterly barbaric.

13 ( +19 / -6 )

Laguna. Add presence of an attorney during interrogations to that and I agree. We all need to remember this is not really about Ghosn

3 ( +10 / -7 )

I knew that!!

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Tokyo-Engr, you stretch yourself again. If it is not about Ghosn, then about whom ?

-13 ( +1 / -14 )

'Indefinately'.

So he's essentially been kidnapped.

I guess they're just hoping he will die in there so they can avoid the massive law suit I'm sure someone like him can afford to put on them!

6 ( +13 / -7 )

10 years is about reasonable.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

If prosecutors bail them out, they think the suspects may destroy / hide conclusive evidences. It is understandable they keep the suspects in detention center more days.

-5 ( +8 / -13 )

Looking forward to his next book. Sould be an eye opener, think the prosecution are regretting so openly being used by a company. The spokesman for the prosecution is as articulate as a 10 year old, says a lot about both training and motivation. Let the embarrassment continue. Next he will be shouting about Japan not being a medieval society and getting a seat in the Diet.

7 ( +13 / -6 )

Goodlucktoyou, nowaday people can live very long. 10 years isn't enough to make one die in prison.

-13 ( +1 / -14 )

Confess! Confess!!!!! Bit on the old Stalins Russia side of the fence wouldn’t you say?

This is gunna make an awesome movie one day. The eyes of the world are watching, hope the J legal system know what they are doing! Shakespeare worthy.

1 ( +10 / -9 )

kwattToday  08:55 am JST

Here we go with an another amusingly flimsy attempt by establishment apologists to defend the indefensible...

If prosecutors bail them out, they think the suspects may destroy / hide conclusive evidences.

When has this ever been given as the reason? It sounds more like your speculation.

It is understandable they keep the suspects in detention center more days.

Understandable because they would rather wear a suspect down until they confess, rather than do their jobs properly looking for that evidence you think the suspects might destroy.

3 ( +11 / -8 )

@Simon Foston

Prosecutors don't want to lose any evidences involved this case. This is their usual strategy to convict them in the coming trial for sure.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

You can see from the overwealming majority of comments here that the tide has now turned in Ghosn’s favour. It completely exposes the justice system here and the disparity in treatment compared with Japanese heads of companies SUSPECTED of wrong doing. If I were Ghosn I would refuse to answer anything until he HIS lawyers present. I’m pretty sure the international community would not allow them to hold him indefinitely. Say absolutely nothing until he has HIS lawyers present. Ganbaro Ghosn!

8 ( +16 / -8 )

What kind of law is that ?

The Criminal Procedure Code.

0 ( +9 / -9 )

Well, every country from the Far East through to the West has its own legal system .

Entering, touring or living in a country its laws apply - whether one agrees with it or not.

Ghosn will get a fair trial.

Both Ghosn & Kelly have excellent defence counsels.

-2 ( +9 / -11 )

You can see from the overwealming majority of comments here that the tide has now turned in Ghosn’s favour.

Which is just as illogical as the tide being against Ghosn. No one knows what happened, and the idea that readers have any clue whatsoever as to what actually happened, is entirely laughable.

12 ( +16 / -4 )

By the way they are handling this case and Ghosn you would think they had captured the most wanted terrorist on the planet who was about to set off a nuclear device in the centre of Tokyo. Ridiculous!

If Japan is so law abiding why isn’t Shinzo Abe in a dentension cell while you force a confession or gather evidence based on the credible accusations of others and the falsification of documents by government officials? Why are the dentension cells not full of Polititions and CEO’s accused of falsifying data of misappropriating government or company funds? Why is every Yakuza member or leader not in a detention cell indefinitely? Really? Law abiding? Yes, your average Japanese person sure is, but the core of that beautiful apple, that runs this place, is as rotten and self serving as they come!

Oh they do so love to point a finger at the foreigner but never ever at themselves. With that kind of embedded culture how can you ever expect change progress or growth. Japan when the rest of the world thinks you are wrong....then you are wrong! Grow up, man up, admit it and fix it! Anything short simply loses you any form of respect!

12 ( +19 / -7 )

kwattToday  09:38 am JST

@Simon Foston

Prosecutors don't want to lose any evidences involved this case.

It says nothing of the sort in the article so I still think that's just speculation.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

@strangerland

I am simply referring to public sentiment from the posters here nothing more. He is being treated unfairly at present and that seems to be the general sentiment based on the majority of posts of which I too agree. Absolutely nothing illogical in that.

1 ( +10 / -9 )

kwattToday  09:38 am JST

This is their usual strategy to convict them in the coming trial for sure.

Clearly they're not very smart because it would make a bit more sense to gather the evidence and build a strong case before making any arrests and putting anyone in detention. Wouldn't it?

5 ( +13 / -8 )

Boo hoo have a cry, it's for this criminal's benefit that he remains detained so he can get used to the long, long incarceration that the criminal will be getting and deserves.

He will be doing the time for his crimes, no one is above the law no matter how rich and powerful, unlike certain powerful persons in other countries

-6 ( +8 / -14 )

Dukeleto: " He is being treated unfairly at present "

So what is " fair" treatment?

2 ( +8 / -6 )

I wonder bc . . @ 2011 , for example, Ghosn fired 3 Renault employees who were suspected of espionage, BEFORE they had their reputations cleared thru a thorough investigation and hearing.

The French still get uptight when this case is mentioned bc of the injustice these 3 very competent professionals experienced .

0 ( +4 / -4 )

HallowedToday  10:23 am JST

Boo hoo have a cry, it's for this criminal's benefit that he remains detained so he can get used to the long, long incarceration that the criminal will be getting and deserves.

So it's nothing to do with preventing him from destroying evidence?

10 ( +11 / -1 )

The general consensus here is that this guy is treated like it’s the number 1 terrorist in Japan, the biggest mass murderer or simmilar.

Seriously, this Japanese ‘Justice’ system is not only laughable, but utterly ridiculous and eithout any common sense what so ever.

I am really interested in the followup since Ghosn will never let this go, obviously, since his entire image was trashed on unproved acusations.

8 ( +13 / -5 )

DukeletoToday  10:07 am JST

If Japan is so law abiding why isn’t Shinzo Abe in a dentension cell while you force a confession or gather evidence based on the credible accusations of others and the falsification of documents by government officials?

I think that's because everything in Japan is arranged for the maximum convenience and benefit of ageing oligarchs like Shinzo Abe and his vile peers. It's probably deemed to be good for the peasants and serfs to go on thinking that their political masters are actually upstanding pillars of society who owe their positions to merit.

9 ( +14 / -5 )

Euro DudeToday  10:41 am JST

Seriously, this Japanese ‘Justice’ system is not only laughable, but utterly ridiculous and eithout any common sense what so ever.

It makes perfect sense once you appreciate that one of its main purposes is to make the police and prosecutors look as if they're doing their jobs properly when in fact they can't. Of course, corrupt, inefficient law enforcers probably have a different notion of "common sense" from the rest of us.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

So it now all hangs on whether you can defer your pay (via IoU's ), until the company can afford it, meanwhile the poor prosecutor is out of his depth already, and is just huffing and puffing to say "as long as it takes".

I can see compensation for wrongful imprisonment being far more than $80M.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

I'd go further than others. Unless there is a conviction, detainment in a facility should not be an option. Confiscated passport, ankle bracelet, or house arrest should be used.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

What if someone in your neighborhood driving the same kind of car as you hits and runs a little child?

Would you still be so supportive of this?

To those who are trying to defend this practice:

Let's say he goes to trial and is acquitted of all charges against him.

Does that mean he just spent 1-3 years in jail (Oh, sorry, "detention") for committing no crime?

What exactly is his compensation going to be for that? Can something like that even be compensated for?

The system is clearly broken, if you do not comprehend this you need to get your head out of the edo period. The world has moved on. Always keep it in mind that someday it could be you in the crosshairs of an insane Japanese prosecutor. Every time Japan incarcerates someone without a trial, without access to lawyers, without recording interviews, they are just reminding the world of how far behind the society is.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

Law-abiding? How about Olympus, Toshiba and others

add to that Kobe Steel, KYB, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Subaru, variaous food processing mislabeling scandals, various J banks scandals, various J politicians,

yes law abiding indeed

14 ( +17 / -3 )

As a matter of interest,

Code of Criminal Procedure (Part I and Part II)

http://www.japaneselawtranslation.go.jp/law/detail/?id=2056&vm=04&re=02

Also the question of judiciary interpretation as well as statutory guidelines is a tad vague.

If former Nissan chairman Carlos Ghosn, admittedly not a participially subtle or likeable fellow is found to be a greedy fraudulent thief, then by all mean hang him from the nearest proverbial lamppost.

However due process must prevail.

The Tokyo District Public Prosecutors' Office should refrain from briefing certain media elements as justification for Ghosn continued incarceration.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

 Will Goode: can see compensation for wrongful imprisonment being far more than $80M

That won't happen.

Japanese law around habeas corpus is different from other countries.

Besides he isn't "imprisoned".

He is being detained.

.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

I can see compensation for wrongful imprisonment being far more than $80M.

if Ghousen is guilty then why the need for a forced confession, seems like their evidence isnt bulletproof, If I was Ghouen Id stand my ground no matter how long it took. Wait for the prosecution to present their evidence in court for all the world too see and see if a conviction stands with that evidence

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Does he present a danger to society? No.

Is he a flight risk? Yes.

I agree with jumin Rhee. Confiscate his passport, anklet him, and keep him under house arrest until they are ready for trial.

Ghosn may be (and I suspect likely is) guilty of loads, but no one should face indefinite imprisonment without a conviction.

The system here is outrageous and every person considering living and working here should be well aware of the risks. Locals who have no choice but to live and work here should wake up and start using their votes to make things better.

Time to donate to Amnesty International Japan.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

In other words “until he confesses because we can’t get a conviction without one.”

10 ( +12 / -2 )

wtfjapan - they aren't detaining him solely for a "forced confession.

There are many factors involved such as, Ghosn influencing witnesses, fleeing the country, changing evidence.

He's a very powerful man.

Often the somewhat inhospitable conditions of detainent cause suspects to capitulate.

But not always.

It behooves the prosecution to support their allegations with hard evidence.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Unless there is a conviction, detainment in a facility should not be an option. Confiscated passport, ankle bracelet, or house arrest should be used.

So basically detain an innocent person "innocent until proven guilty in a court" until they confess either wrongly or wrightfully. Sounds like something the Chinese government would do, what next mind conditioning correction centers!?

He will be doing the time for his crimes, no one is above the law no matter how rich and powerful, unlike certain powerful persons in other countries

so with all of the corporate and government scandals that have hit Japan in the last 20yrs just how many have been convicted and sent to prision!? you could probably count them on one hand.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

itsonlyrocknroll However due process must prevail.

It will.

Ghosn & Kelly have eminent defense attorneys.

The Tokyo District Public Prosecutors' Office should refrain from briefing certain media elements as justification for Ghosn continued incarceration

Trial by media is not something one can pin on Tokyo Public Prosecutors Office.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Trial by media is not something one can pin on Tokyo Public Prosecutors Office.

We don't know if Asahi et al.'s anonymous sources / "kankeisha" are in the Public Prosecutors Office or in Nissan.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Ascissor We don't know if Asahi et al.'s anonymous sources / "kankeisha" are in the Public Prosecutors Office or in Nissan

True. We don't know.

However, there is still a relative 'freedom of the press'

And many news agencies in Japan, with deep pockets that are NOT lined by Nissan or the Tokyo Prosecutors Office.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Ghosn did not have to underreport his remuneration in the first place. It was said in public many years that he has got billions of money from Renault, Nissan, and Mitsubishi as he was a top leader of 3 big automakers. He is really fxxked up by such things and screwed up his good career after all.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

So far Ghosn has been treated no differently from other criminal suspects in detention. At least that’s fair.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

semperfiToday 11:47 am JST

Often the somewhat inhospitable conditions of detainent cause suspects to capitulate.

Why should anyone have to endure "inhospitable conditions" until their guilt is proven and they are convicted in a court of law?

5 ( +6 / -1 )

What Tokyo-Engr said. Regardless on how you feel about Ghosn or Nissan I'm sure everyone can agree that Japan's so-called justice system is deeply flawed. Perhaps the increased awareness and attn. that results from this scandal will lead to change. Long odds, I know. I'm sure the Kempeitai used similar practices.

Jcjapan. There was a book published in the 1980's called "Bridge House". By Peter Plague. This would seem to bear out what you say.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

"Japanese prosecutors say they will detain Ghosn as long as needed"

As long as needed or as long as they can without a formal charge. There is no real reason for him to be detained at this stage. They should just hold his passport so he can't leave Japan.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Those for Carlos are very correct. Japan is showing to the world as long as they are Japanese, they can do anything. That is not the thinking of every good Japanese in Japan. Carlos work at the top of a public company. Can the world imagine if their people that will come to work in the farms, nursing or whatever private in Japanese Small & medium companies ???. What will happen to other countries people , who are held in the same conditions until convicted ???.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Release him on bail, take his passport and confine him to his house for the length of the investigation. Stop allowing the Tokyo prosecutors' office to embarrass Japan in the eyes of the civilised world.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Apparently, what Carlos did was wrong. However, unless being formally charged with a crime, I would think being detained as long as necessary is illegal and can be a case for false imprisonment, not to mention damaging if what he did was false.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

From what I heard from another article from Japan Today, his prison conditions don't seem so bad compared to western prisons, especially the US. He can wear his own clothing and take longer baths than Japanese inmates, for openers.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Eurodude

If you think Japan’s is one of the worlds worst you need to look at an atlas.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

"If prosecutors bail them out, they think the suspects may destroy / hide conclusive evidences. It is understandable they keep the suspects in detention center more days."

But what if they are holding the wrong guys and the real wrongdoers are free and covering all the traces right now!

This system is terribly flawed...

5 ( +5 / -0 )

@semperfi,

"It will.

Ghosn & Kelly have eminent defense attorneys."

so your saying that if a foreigner is accused of a crime in Japan, their chance of any not guilty verdict or case being thrown out is dependent on their access to eminent defense attorneys? If that is the case, then us common gaijin are screwed, as most of us cant afford it.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

From what I heard from another article from Japan Today, his prison conditions don't seem so bad compared to western prisons, especially the US. He can wear his own clothing and take longer baths than Japanese inmates, for openers.

Japanese prosecutors are fully aware of the effects of isolation. They cleverly disguised this by "prisoner safety".

Are there are Japanese judges out there who know their role and will do their jobs?

4 ( +4 / -0 )

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Cover-Story/After-Ghosn-auto-alliance-faces-uncertain-future

The power struggle between Nissan and Renault has burst into the open, with Nissan hoping to use the Ghosn scandal as an opportunity to increase its influence within the partnership to reflect its higher sales and corporate value. Renault, which holds 43% of Nissan shares, hopes to reinforce its control of its Japanese partner, either through a merger or deeper integration of management.

This proves it was a set up, even the local news here is hinting at it..

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Nissan has always been a company that prefers using force to get their way. They still don't own the nissan.com domain name, because they refused to pony up and offer the current owner (one Mr. Nissan) a reasonable price. They would rather spend 10 times that suing the guy into the ground than pay him a penny for his property. Awful people at the top.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

so your saying that if a foreigner is accused of a crime in Japan, their chance of any not guilty verdict or case being thrown out is dependent on their access to eminent defense attorneys? If that is the case, then us common gaijin are screwed, as most of us cant afford it.

This is true in most countries, not just Japan. The rich can buy the justice they want. The rest of us are just pawns.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The more complicated the case the longer it may take to gather all the evidence. He could spend quite a while on remand especially,as many people suspect,it could be a setup, while those in charge figure out what to do.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

He will be doing the time for his crimes, no one is above the law no matter how rich and powerful, unlike certain powerful persons in other countries

That is the point, he is already considered as guilty with these unacceptable leaks (or fake news) distilled by the Japanese newspaper while Ghosn cannot defend publicly himself directly or through his lawyer. If he is kept that long in remand it means they do not have yet any bulletproof evidences or confession...

3 ( +3 / -0 )

I almost became a Japanese citizen once. Thank goodness I did'nt.

I would not want to be a citizen of a country that can arrest you, detain you indefinitely without a charge, have no lawyer present when qestioned, not even have a jury at the trail, and be regarded as guilty from the moment of arrest.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Euro Dude:

One of the most barbaric and primitive Justice systems in the World.

Pretrial confinement does exist in other countries like US. So there must be reasons why people, not just Japanese, think it necessary.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Hopefully a deal will be made between Abe and Macron. Let Ghosn go and let Nissan free.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Simon Foston:

kwatt: "Prosecutors don't want to lose any evidences involved this case."

It says nothing of the sort in the article so I still think that's just speculation.

The article does not, but the law does. Pretrial confinement is allowed only if prosecutors provide and accepted by court reasons (刑事訴訟法第199-1) as well as necessities (刑事訴訟法第199-2, 143-2).

The laws describes such necessities as high possibility to escape and/or to destroy evidences.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Tokyo-EngrToday 07:11 am JST

Holding someone for weeks with no charges

This is or is not true depending on the meaning of "charge".

If "charge" means formal allegation, in Japan, a suspect is "charged" when he is arrested. The allegation must be filed to a judge for approval before the arrest and must be spelled out to a suspect when he is arrested. The suspect can challenge the allegation in the court of law while he is detained.

If "charge" means "kiso" which is usually translated as "indictment" but is actually the start of a trial, he is not "charged". Right, he is detained but the trial has not begun.

Comparing apples and oranges.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

socrateosNov. 30  10:03 pm JST

Simon Foston:

kwatt: "Prosecutors don't want to lose any evidences involved this case."

It says nothing of the sort in the article so I still think that's just speculation.

The article does not, but the law does. Pretrial confinement is allowed only if prosecutors provide and accepted by court reasons (刑事訴訟法第199-1) as well as necessities (刑事訴訟法第199-2, 143-2).

The laws describes such necessities as high possibility to escape and/or to destroy evidences.

Then it's a stupid, backwards system designed to trample on the rights of suspects and give police excuses for conducting sloppy investigations. If they can't get sufficient evidence either before they take someone into custody or very soon afterwards they aren't doing their jobs properly and the only real reason they have for lengthy detentions is to pressure suspects into making confessions. Besides, whatever Japan's archaic, prosecution-biased laws state the prosecutors in this case have not cited possible destruction of evidence as their reason for holding Carlos Ghosn or Greg Kelly. I was of the impression the investigation had been going on for some time before they were actually arrested - enough time, I would suppose, to gather all the evidence needed and secure it.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

My only concern is that Ghosn's defense lawyer will be more interested in settling the case than actually proven his innocence. Japanese defense lawyers are not really good at proving innocence. There primary goal is to negotiate, so both sides are happy

> Very true. Makes me wonder if they are trying to wear him down for the plea or negotiation, where all sides are deemed to be happy, but actually concealing the fact that they are working for the other side, to negotiate the best deal for them. Very clever tactic; wear down your opponent through "legit" methods, then exploit that opportunity to force a confession****.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

CH3CHONov. 30  10:31 pm JST

Tokyo-EngrToday 07:11 am JST

Holding someone for weeks with no charges

This is or is not true depending on the meaning of "charge".

If "charge" means formal allegation, in Japan, a suspect is "charged" when he is arrested. The allegation must be filed to a judge for approval before the arrest and must be spelled out to a suspect when he is arrested. The suspect can challenge the allegation in the court of law while he is detained.

If "charge" means "kiso" which is usually translated as "indictment" but is actually the start of a trial, he is not "charged". Right, he is detained but the trial has not begun.

That's all very hard to follow. Perhaps it would make sense to outline what happens in another country, e.g. the UK, and you can tell us how it's different in Japan. British police arrest a suspect, stating at the time of arrest what crime they think has been committed. The suspect can be held in custody for 24 hours, with a solicitor (pre-trial lawyer) present during police questioning. After that if the police can't provide the Crown Prosecution Service with enough evidence to give them a chance of securing a conviction in court the suspect must be released although they can apply to the Home Secretary to hold terrorism suspects for longer. Otherwise they charge the suspect with the crime and the case proceeds to court. The suspect, now the accused, is transferred to prison for the duration of the trial unless the judge agrees to grant bail. Just a few less fascist police state overtones, I think.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Simon FostonToday  01:52 pm JST

In Japan, police do not have the power to arrest a suspect on their own. They have to provide enough proof of the crime to a judge for issuance of an arrest warrant, with which they can arrest the suspect. The allegation is disclosed to the arrested person. He or his lawyer can challenge the arrest warrant in court. If the appeal is successful, he is released.

The arrest warrant is valid for 72 hours. The police have to send the suspect to the prosecutors office within the first 48 hours. To further detain the suspect, the prosecutor has to petition a judge for a detention warrant. The warrant is granted only if the prosecutor provide enough evidence of crime that justify further detention. The defense lawyer or the suspect can challenge the detention warrant in court.

The detention warrant is valid for 10 days. The prosecutor can petition a judge for 10 day extension of the detention. The defense team can challenge the extension in court. The extension is possible only once. To continue the detention, the prosecutor has to "kiso" (indict) the person. The court may decide to detain the accused until the trial begins or may release the accused on bail until the trial.

Now, with vaguely defined "charge", when was the suspect charged?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

"Japan is a law abiding country"

What a crock!

2 ( +2 / -0 )

CH3CHOToday  05:51 pm JST

Simon FostonToday  01:52 pm JST

In Japan, police do not have the power to arrest a suspect on their own. They have to provide enough proof of the crime to a judge for issuance of an arrest warrant, with which they can arrest the suspect. The allegation is disclosed to the arrested person. He or his lawyer can challenge the arrest warrant in court. If the appeal is successful, he is released....

...The court may decide to detain the accused until the trial begins or may release the accused on bail until the trial.

It all sounds incredibly bureaucratic and unnecessarily complicated. It also raises the question, if the police already had enough evidence to satisfy the judge that an arrest warrant should be issued what further investigation would be necessary that justified detaining the suspect for 20 days per charge?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

If indicted, Ghosn can apply for bail. In Japan there are no limits to the amount of time he can apply for bail, if refused.

He should do this, and if refused keep applying. I hope that somewhere in Japan there is actually a judge who understands his/her role and applies rule of law without just rubber stamping everything the prosecutor demands.

It is time in Japan for the tai to stop wagging the dog.

One point I want to mention here. I met a prosecutor years ago (a ga ikenatsu. That is a prosecutor who deals with foreigners). He said to me that he was charge of allied POW's during WW2. I found that strange. What kind of prosecutor procedures have evolved in Japan.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

6 years ago I was detained in solitary confinement for 11 days then in a 5 person cell for another 43 days after that. I was never charged with anything. I was never actually even close to being charged with anything I do not think. During the 11 days of solitary I never met anyone, the food was terrible and it was cold. I had nothing to read so the days were fairly long. Police were merely trying to give me a hard time. I eventually got allowed out on bail and never heard anything more about it. I had lived in Japan for over 10 years and had zero previous contact with police so it was quite a shock.

I travelled to a town to interpret for a Canadian TV crew making a documentary about dolphin killing but I only had a visitor visa. They kept trying to get me to confess to taking money but they did not have a scrap of evidence. This is the Japanese way and is unlikely to change. Like other countries you just take the good with the bad in Japan.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

michaelqtoddToday 07:23 am JST

6 years ago I was detained in solitary confinement for 11 days then in a 5 person cell for another 43 days after that. I was never charged with anything. I was never actually even close to being charged with anything I do not think.

It doesn't sound anything like the elaborate process of police getting warrants from judges and appeals in court so carefully described by other commenters. Who, I would imagine, have never been on the receiving end of such treatment themselves.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Ghosn may or may be not guilty but what i like about the Japanese legal system is they don't mess around like the system in the USA which would go on for years and spend countless $$ and end up in a mistrial. I can look a man in the face and tell if he is a liar or a criminal.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Message to the prosecutors : you'll hold him within the confines of the law.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@Simon,

if you live in Japan long enough, your realize your like an island. Another gaijin experience may parallel yours, or maybe completely opposite, you cant really believe or trust what somebody might say because we are in the land of "case by case". I can 100% relate to michealqtodd, as Ive had similar experiences, during those times you learn to trust yourself.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

ShawnToday 11:39 am JST

@Simon,

if you live in Japan long enough, your realize your like an island. Another gaijin experience may parallel yours, or maybe completely opposite, you cant really believe or trust what somebody might say because we are in the land of "case by case". I can 100% relate to michealqtodd, as Ive had similar experiences, during those times you learn to trust yourself.

I'm not disputing anything about what michealqtodd says at all. I was commenting on how CH3CHO described the arrest and detention process as one involving warrants, judges, courts and appeals, in which the police seem to have very little authority, yet going by michealqtodd's experiences and your own it sounds like the police can actually do pretty much as they please. On the whole I think I find what michealqtodd says to be much closer to the truth of what usually goes on. Not to say that these processes do not exist, but I imagine the police just do not bother with them if they do not feel like it and the judges are happy to be spared the extra work.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Do I need to disprove even the obvious and the wildest misinformation?

Anyone can tell by reading the law.

http://www.japaneselawtranslation.go.jp/law/detail/?re=01&dn=1&x=0&y=0&co=1&ia=03&yo=&gn=&sy=&ht=&no=&bu=&ta=&ky=%E5%88%91%E4%BA%8B%E8%A8%B4%E8%A8%9F%E6%B3%95&page=6

Read article 199 of law of criminal procedure of Japan. It says arrest must be based on an arrest warrant issued by a judge.

Also read article 200. It says that the "charged offence" must be written on the arrest warrant. Then article 201, which says that the arrest warrant must be shown to the suspect when he is arrested.

Isn't it obvious?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I went to 2 very short meetings with judges and a police prosecutor both were conducted in quite formal Japanese and I was not allowed to have a lawyer present. The police and the judges involved made it very clear from the start that they were "rubber stamping" meetings. The purpose of the meetings were permission to detain me and to extend my detention. For breaching immigration regulations regarding visitor visas presumably but I am not even sure that they have to state exactly why you are being detained. I was allowed to speak but they gave no indication that they were listening. No notes were taken and I am not even sure if anything was recorded. I was urged to plead guilty at both meetings but I did not.

Being detained is different from being charged with anything. The policeman who took me back to my cell told me he had never seen a judge turn down a prosecutor's request to detain or to extend detention.

After I was finally released after 53 days I went to a lawyer to enquire about a false imprisonment claim she told me that there was zero chance of success as no rules had been broken and that all I would do was piss off the Japanese police and the immigration authorities and make my future in Japan more difficult.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

CH3CHOToday  08:59 pm JST

Read article 199 of law of criminal procedure of Japan. It says arrest must be based on an arrest warrant issued by a judge.

Going by accounts it sounds like judges will approve whatever the police put in front of them.

Also read article 200. It says that the "charged offence" must be written on the arrest warrant. Then article 201, which says that the arrest warrant must be shown to the suspect when he is arrested.

Isn't it obvious?

It's odd, then, that people seem to be able to end up in custody and yet have very little idea of what crimes they have supposedly committed.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Hopefully a deal will be made between Abe and Macron. Let Ghosn go and let Nissan free.

And of course, Nissan will try to exploit any financial renumeration.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Surely Mr Ghosn has been deprived of his freedom enough already?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

michaelqtoddDec. 2 10:34 pm JST

I went to 2 very short meetings with judges and a police prosecutor both were conducted in quite formal Japanese and I was not allowed to have a lawyer present.

But the law says that a lawyer is allowed at the judge's hearing.

Simon FostonToday 12:09 am JST

It's odd, then, 

Yes, it is odd. One is contradicting the other. Which to believe?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

CH3CHOToday  11:01 am JST

Yes, it is odd. One is contradicting the other. Which to believe?

It's pretty obvious who you would believe. I kind of get the idea that if they beat you up in custody and then told you you'd fallen down the stairs you would take their word for it.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Ve have vays ov making you talk.....

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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