crime

Police officer fatally shoots man threatening him with saw

88 Comments

A police officer in Sosa, Chiba Prefecture, on Saturday night fatally shot a 74-year-old man who was threatening him with a saw.

According to police, a man called 110 at around 6:30 p.m. and complained that his neighbor’s rice-drying machine was making too much noise, Fuji TV reported. Two police officers in their 50s went to the house of the man with the rice dryer.

As they were speaking to him outside, the neighbor who had made the complaint showed up on the premises, brandishing a saw with a 30-cm-long blade. One officer told him to drop it but the man kept coming. The other officer fired one warning shot in the air but when the man refused to stop, the officer fired a second shot which hit the man in the chest.

An ambulance was called and police arrested the man, Seiichi Ebato, on suspicion of obstructing police in the performance of their duties. However, he was pronounced dead on arrival at hospital.

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88 Comments
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What a bizarre news. And why can't they shoot the hand or leg, even though the body is probably easier as a target? Still, I cannot understand.

-25 ( +18 / -43 )

A 70-year old armed with a saw? I dont expect the police to be superheroes, but it does not sound like shooting him dead was necessary.

12 ( +31 / -19 )

Somehow people think it is easy to actually aim for arms and legs on someone on approach.

Warning shot have been fired and I believe they have the right to protect themselves and others if one poses threat regardless of that person's age.

30 ( +40 / -10 )

What a bizarre news. And why can't they shoot the hand or leg, even though the body is probably easier as a target? Still, I cannot understand.

Think what the hands and legs do when the body runs. Visualize the patterns moving through spacetime.

Or just wave your hand in front of you in a circular motion.

Now think of the size of a bullet and the speed it moves.

What is the probability a bullet will hit the moving target? 5%? If so 95% chance of hitting something not the target, which could be a person?

Also, hands aren't thick. What if the bullet passes through and hits a bystander?

The objective isn't to kill, but to stop the threat.

Against a chainsaw, the officer's service weapon is best defense. The only place to fire the weapon is center of the body. Unfortunately, we didn't evolve to have holes poked in this area.

6 ( +17 / -11 )

Sounds like the police did a great job. Don't risk getting killed or seriously injured by a deranged attacker. If he chooses to attack after both a verbal warning and even a shot fired in the air, then they have every right to use the firearm they have been issued for this very reason.

Those suggesting to shoot in the arm have been watching too much TV.

12 ( +23 / -11 )

Noise can really drive you crazy. I can sympathize with the saw guy. I wonder if it was an electric saw then I can understand the need to use a firearm.

-2 ( +11 / -13 )

As always, people who have no first hand experience with firearms, much less handgun training, always expect LEOs in threatening situations to be able to shoot the perpetrator in the arm or leg. Sorry folks but they are trained to hit the central body mass. The only lesson to be learned here is don't keep approaching an armed police officer who tells you to stop. Especial;y when they've already fired a warning shot.

13 ( +22 / -9 )

No tasers in such a supposedly advanced country?

15 ( +24 / -9 )

70 year old with a saw.... A taser would have been more than enough to take him down. Like in most fatal shootings of crazy people.

11 ( +20 / -9 )

Oh my...strongly agree!

RecklessToday 04:21 pm JST

Noise can really drive you crazy. I can sympathize with the saw guy. I wonder if it was an electric saw then I can understand the need to use a firearm.

This country is one of the noisiest places I have ever been too.

4 ( +13 / -9 )

70 year old with a saw.... A taser would have been more than enough to take him down. Like in most fatal shootings of crazy people.

Japanese cops aren’t armed with tasers.

Arnold Schwarzenegger and Sylvester Stallone are well past 70.

Not all 70’s are feeble old men. I knew a 76 year old retired SDF Sergeant Major who still teaches martial arts.

14 ( +16 / -2 )

Rest In Peace” and “Condolences” to his grieving family, friends & neighbors.

Now, seems we can only speculate on “the How’s and Why’s”.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

I am HIGHLY trained in the use of firearms. When I lived in my home country I carried a .45cal pistol EVERYWHERE I went. I am happy I never had to fire my weapon. I am always surprised to see when Japanese Police fire a "Warning" shot in the air! Have they never heard of "whatever goes up, must come down"? That bullet coming down could end up in a childs skull while sleeping in their bed. To those that say "they should shoot an arm of leg". Police/Military/FBI/CIA/ETC are trained to shoot center mass. This is the easiest location to hit, as it is the biggest mass. Imagine trying to hit a leg, in the dark, while your adrenaline is pumping. If you say "shoot and arm or leg" you have obviously never fired a weapon.

9 ( +19 / -10 )

Was it a chainsaw?

9 ( +13 / -4 )

When he complained, he never thought he was calling for his own death. . .

. . . Or, did he?

Still, not enough to details here to draw any accurate conclusions concerning his health condition or mental confusion.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

I read here a few months ago that the first round in a policeman's revolver was a blank for the purpose of firing a warning shot. Don't know if that is true or not.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Ever tried to hit anything with one of those revolvers?

Probably a fret saw.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Seems we can trust someone codenamed *“Scorpionto be “HIGHLY trained in the use of firearms” *and well-versed in the practicality of law enforcement using firearms in public places. -

- “ I am happy I never had to fire my weapon. I am always surprised to see when Japanese Police fire a "Warning" shot in the air! Have they never heard of "whatever goes up, must come down"? That bullet coming down could end up in a childs skull while sleeping in their bed. To those that say "they should shoot an arm of leg". Police/Military/FBI/CIA/ETC are trained to shoot center mass. This is the easiest location to hit, as it is the biggest mass. Imagine trying to hit a leg, in the dark, while your adrenaline is pumping. If you say "shoot and arm or leg" you have obviously never fired a weapon.” -

Well said, lad.

(Btw. What’s “ETC” training? - We have one in each car ; )

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I read here a few months ago that the first round in a policeman's revolver was a blank for the purpose of firing a warning shot. Don't know if that is true or not.

This is a myth. I have friends that are Police and I have asked them, as I read the same. They carry live rounds. In 2020 the use of "warning" shots was starting to be frowned upon. New laws were written that now allow the Police to actually engage the target before firing warning shots. Prior to 2020, warning shots were almost required in every situation prior to engagement.

>

3 ( +4 / -1 )

@Scorpion

I agree with your points except for,

I am always surprised to see when Japanese Police fire a "Warning" shot in the air! Have they never heard of "whatever goes up, must come down"? That bullet coming down could end up in a childs skull while sleeping in their bed.

If fired at less than a 45degree angle, bullets maintain ballistic trajectory and generally are able to achieve maximum range. More than 60degrees, the bullet will come to a complete stop at the peak of its climb, and fall like any other object. The Mythbusters tested this theory, and the bullets fires straight up resulted with only an “ouch” reaction.

That said, even with the puny .38 revolvers Japanese cops have, it’s definitely not a good idea to shoot anything you don’t want to kill. Even if it was in Sosa, Chiba which is pretty much just rice fields, and a .38 that has a max range of probably 300m or so.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

70 year old with a saw.... A taser would have been more than enough

You never know. Could be a blinder avenger like Stephen Lang. It’s your life or his.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

CS gas / pepper spray or a taser would have sufficed!!

Pretty woeful actions by the J police this time round .

0 ( +5 / -5 )

CS gas / pepper spray or a taser would have sufficed!!

Oh Lord! CS Gas? Do you even know what that is? Pepper Spray is fine to use but CS Gas for ONE person? You expect a Police Officer to pull a Pin and throw a CS nade, and EXPOSE EVERYONE around the area to CS Gas? You know that if a Police Officer used CS Gas, all those around need to don their Gas Mask including the Police Officer! Do you think the Cop has time to stop, don a gas mask, ready his CS nade, clear the area, and throw it? This isn't Call Of Duty, this is REAL life.

CS Gas is used for crowd control, not ONE person.

These comments are laughable when people think they know what they are talking about!

7 ( +9 / -2 )

If fired at less than a 45degree angle, bullets maintain ballistic trajectory and generally are able to achieve maximum range. More than 60degrees, the bullet will come to a complete stop at the peak of its climb, and fall like any other object. The Mythbusters tested this theory, and the bullets fires straight up resulted with only an “ouch” reaction. 

That said, even with the puny .38 revolvers Japanese cops have, it’s definitely not a good idea to shoot anything you don’t want to kill. Even if it was in Sosa, Chiba which is pretty much just rice fields, and a .38 that has a max range of probably 300m or so.

I forgot the Police carry a .38! Thanks for reminding me! But still, I am not sure if a Police Officer would "remember" to shoot at a 45 degree angle. They are always leaving their guns in the Toilet at the combini, so I am not sure if they can remeber to shoot at an angle.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Btw. What’s “ETC” training? - We have one in each car ; )

used at the end of a list to indicate that further, similar items are included. :-) No cars involved!

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

A taser would have been more than enough to take him down.

A taser is not always adequate in a situation. When a subject is intending to commit harm to a LEO, and refuses to stop when the command is given a taser is NOT. a good idea, especially when the subject has an object to commit harm. If he did not have a weapon and was just coming at the LEO with his fists, then yes there is time to deploy a taser. However in this situation there was a weapon (or shall I say, a tool that was being used as a weapon). If the LEO deployed a taser and it was ineffective (which does happen if the barbs do not penatrate the skin) then between the time of the taser failing, and the suspect continuing forward, the LEO would have been injured as there may have not been enough time to pull his weapon.

Most of what I have said is speculation obvioulsy, because I was not there. I am just giving my input from what I have read.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Why would someone call 110 and then come at them with a saw. So bizarre. If he was going to brandish the saw, it would seem he would have a better chance doing that before calling the police.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Why would someone call 110 and then come at them with a saw. So bizarre. If he was going to brandish the saw, it would seem he would have a better chance doing that before calling the police.

Have you ever heard of Suicide by Police?

1 ( +4 / -3 )

CS gas / pepper spray or a taser would have sufficed!!

The article mentions a rice milling machine. Sosa, Chiba is a sparsely populated rice growing area. It’s fairly safe to assume there was a large quantity of rice in the vicinity. Tons of fresh harvested rice that would be contaminated and ultimately destroyed by what is still technically a chemical weapon.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Maybe in the movies they shoot them in the hand, arm or leg. In real life police are trained to shoot center mass.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Police warn him to drop it and also fired a warning shot. If you still haven't drop the weapon by then, then you deserve to be shot. I don't care how much right you think you have.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

I bet he didn’t expect to be dead by the end of the day when he woke up this morning.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

For some Japanese police officers, the first round in their .38 pistols is a blank, so they can first fire a warning shot. If you have to shoot someone, it's best to aim center mass unfortunately. A taser would have been better in this situation, but I have never seen uniformed police officers with tasers in Japan.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

All this over noise??

2 ( +4 / -2 )

How about using thier batons rather than a gun in this case?

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Was this "saw" a chainsaw? (Insert Doom / Beavis & Butthead "Breakin' the law" meme)?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

How about using thier batons rather than a gun in this case?

Let me chase you will a saw, and see if you can stop me with a Baton.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

For some Japanese police officers, the first round in their .38 pistols is a blank, so they can first fire a warning shot

This is NOT true! This changed in 2020.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

ScorpionToday  05:26 pm JST

I read here a few months ago that the first round in a policeman's revolver was a blank for the purpose of firing a warning shot. Don't know if that is true or not.

This is a myth. I have friends that are Police and I have asked them, as I read the same. They carry live rounds.

Thank you for the clarification.

DeeToday  08:54 pm JST

For some Japanese police officers, the first round in their .38 pistols is a blank, so they can first fire a warning shot.

Maybe the rules vary by region? Perhaps JT can formally ask the Police for clarification? No. perhaps not.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

You show up brandishing a potentially life threatening weapon and get shot, then you what you were looking for so end of story.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

I remember the last such story about a man armed with a knife, who was successfully "apprehended unhurt" at a train station: that story was used by this site to shoehorn in some quotes from Japanese citizens to the effect that "See? police don't have to use violence like in Western countries."

Whoops1 Turns out police all around the world often shoot armed suspects when in life-threatening situations.

Thanks for the laugh, everyone involved. Oh, and that Sri Lankan immigrant who died after wallowing untreated in that lovely Japanese immigration prison for months says, "Konnichiwa, hypocrites", too.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Kudos to the cop for having the courage to eliminate a dangerous threat before an innocent victim was hurt.

The police have an endless, thankless job dealing with unknown threats every time they go to work, and only want to return safely to their families at the end of their shift.

While many call police cowards for having to use force, the same people are themselves hypocritical cowards who would faint at the sight of an armed attacker.

We should be grateful for our police who put themselves at peril everyday in order to protect the law abiding members of civilized society.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

"No tasers in such a supposedly advanced country?"

No such things in feudal, backwards Japan.

One needs to move to more advanced, civilised countries, like (but not only) the US of A in order to be treated nicely by the cops.

I am sure had this happened in another "more advanced country" the poor guy would have been shot in the ingrown toenail and everything would be alright by now.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Excelent action on the officer's side! A saw can definitely injure the jugular bad enough to cause death within 2 minutes. The officer did all be could to stop the attacker.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Police protocol: when in danger, RUN, then at a safe distance, TURN and FIRE GUN at the LEGS of the person WITHOUT a FIREARM. Incapacitate, do NOT kill. There, fixed it! What's wrong with all these brave heroes in blue?

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Just to be clear, such a specific term when speculating on similar circumstances is now permissible on this site?:

Scorpion 8/29 7:21pm: […call 110 and then come at them with a saw. So bizarre]…

“Have you ever heard of Suicide by Police?”

Previously, this, along with terms such as “copy cat”, etc were discouraged or deleted.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

The untimely and clearly unnecessary death of Ojii-chan: Well, let's try another way, actual thought, rare as it may be, rather than the censored blanket condemnation of homicidal police. OK?

It is HIGHLY DOUBTFUL that anyone commenting here has heard of or knows what the tensor tympani muscle (TPM) is or does. The TPM muscle reflexively damps the magnitude of sonic vibration allowed to pass through the incus, malleus, and stapes of the inner ear (accommodation) AND, with age as with all muscles, loses strength and is the root of the arrogant message "If it's too LOUD, you're too old!". Also, it is highly unlikely that said commenters have been exposed, bare-eared, to a close range discharge of an unmuffled pistol which is quite powerful, 'deafening' even, not at all like the roughly ~10% magnitude portrayed in the media and most people's ONLY experience of gunshot. This may have been true of the shooter as well who would be required to wear 'ear protection' anytime on a range and would be at least 'surprised' by the powerful sound of their weapon essentially next to their ear ("fired in the air").

We know that this elderly man in his apparent "seventies" (or genki eighties) was 'sensitive' to loud sound simply by the gist of this story. The sudden, unexpected and very powerful ""POW"" of the first shot on sensitive elderly ears may well have had a stupefying effect on Ojii-chan, and possibly the shooter also who was even closer to the source, rendering them BOTH into momentary shock and incapable, for an instant, only a fatal instant, of coherent thought.

Nowhere in the scant data we have is the interval between shots included nor, most importantly, that Ojii-chan was making any sort of threatening gesture with the saw, just that he did not instantly obey a command he well, at that moment, may have been incapable of hearing for the induced noise in his ears and shock to his senses, 'stunned' as it were. It is VERY UNLIKELY that he had Homicide in his heart, but someone poorly trained in defensive maneuver DID. And that is unforgivable...

Requiescat in pace now, Ojii-chan. Whatever you may have hoped to still do in this life has been stolen from you...

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

The other officer fired one warning shot in the air but when the man refused to stop, the officer fired a second shot which hit the man in the chest.

That man got a first warning..

What can you expect if someone attack cops with a saw??..

For the whiners, a taser don't help much against a Psycho with a saw..

Stupid acts lead to stupid deaths..

Well done Japan Police!!.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Excelent [sic] action on the officer's side! A saw can definitely injure the jugular bad enough to cause death within 2 minutes. The officer did all be could to stop the attacker.

You may be thinking of the 'carotid' if 'arterial bleeding' is your image...

0 ( +1 / -1 )

why can't they shoot the hand or leg, even though the body is probably easier as a target? Still, I cannot understand.

This is not Hollywood where there is always a happy ending and no one is hurt in scenes like this.

The police had no option. When a criminal has a deadly weapon and is about to use it, even after a warning shot, there is a need to kill that criminal or have an innocent person killed.

Good policing.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Firing a warning shot in the air is just plain stupid and dangerous and not a responsible action.

Where did the bullet land?

Shooting the elderly man fatally obviously was not necessary.

If two police officers cant subdue an elderly man with a saw without killing him then they are not suitable or responsible to be police officers in my opinion.

Was it really necessary to arrest him before the ambulance arrived ?

Granted approaching the officers with a saw was not a good idea but there's other ways to stop this type of situation from the unnecessary loss of life.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

This country is one of the noisiest places I have ever been too.

You haven't been to many countries then.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Loud noise is the only factor having impact on someone’s quality of life that humans have not learned to adapt to. We simply cannot.

Reading the comments it seems most people are visualizing an electric chainsaw kind of situation; I hope the journalist wrote saw because it was a saw, potentially lethal for trees and wood logs in a few minutes but something two trained police officers should be able to deal with. Needless to say if it was actually a chainsaw and the 70 years old was wearing a blood stained mask like in the Texas Chain Saw Massacre I understand the policemen’s fear. And I blame the journalist for the lack of relevant information.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I just wandering how any minutes of target practice he had before he was allowed to carry a gun! Even if someone got a chainsaw, there are at least 8 nonlethal places you can target.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Noises can induce a ptsd trauma episode and i wish other commentators would take that into consideration instead of only looking to see if the officers were only doing their job and it was justified.

After all they did shoot the same person that called them to the scene and because of a noise disturbance and that his hearing was being compromised ,so making more loud noise by shooting a bullet into the air whilst try to verbally communicate with the 70 yr old man who had bin complaining about noise bothering him does not sound appropriate or logical to me.

Laws are intended to protect the people and the officers both but the loss of human life taken by a police because of a noise complaint is hardly justifiable in my opinion.

The neighbors sqeaky noisy machine was bothering him .

Rest in peace .

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Glad the police didn't risk their lives trying to subdue this lunatic with their bare hands. Good job.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Maybe in the movies they shoot them in the hand, arm or leg. In real life police are trained to shoot center mass.

And yet isn't this exactly the kind of training that attracts all the cowardly "bad apples" and pushes the envelope in the direction of a police state where impunity is the rule instead of accountability and justice? History should have taught us all to reject this worrying Orwellian trend that far too many people seem comfortable with.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

And yet isn't this exactly the kind of training that attracts all the cowardly "bad apples" and pushes the envelope in the direction of a police state where impunity is the rule instead of accountability and justice? History should have taught us all to reject this worrying Orwellian trend that far too many people seem comfortable with.

The "bad apple" is the guy that can't put down his weapon or stop approaching even after a warning from the police. The society I fear is the one where we have to constantly worry about the rights of criminals and thugs.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

As evidenced multiple times in research and testimonies on police use of force, yes they are trained to shoot the central mass and in general to shoot in many occasions, and that training is part of the problem because of the priority the preventive use of lethal force is given.

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/12/police-gun-shooting-training-ferguson/383681/

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Japanese police cannot win in JapanToday. If they didn't shoot the person, someone would have pointed out how dangerous it is to go against someone with a blade, and that the correct answer is a gun. If they shot the person, we get this.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Japan can't win in JapanToday.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Scorpion-

Your Not the only one that's received firearms training but if your so highly trained then please explain why you carried a 45 everywhere you went ?

As those of us that have received firearms operation and safely know its Not legal or responsible to carry a firearm ANYWHERE !

or do you have level 6 clearance ?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

People here talk about how the police are trained to shoot, but when I asked a Japanese policeman about it, he said that he fired a gun once at police school, but had no further training.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

People here talk about how the police are trained to shoot, but when I asked a Japanese policeman about it, he said that he fired a gun once at police school, but had no further training.

So you asked one person? He could be doing deskwork for all we know.

I've read that they train once per year or once every 2 years depending on their job.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

in real life police are trained to shoot center mass.

Why don't they train them to shoot at other bits? I'm not trained in firearms, but I've played almost all of the CoD / Halo games, and even I can pick off a limb on an advancing Russian / Covenant grunt.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

First off, a rice drying machine? In an apartment……..how did it even fit?

aren’t those things huge?

and the old dude broke out a saw……he chose a saw over a kitchen knife?

unless he was being attacked by a log, who would Choose a saw over a kitchen knife to attack?

unless it was a gas powered chainsaw. Which tend to be very loud tools.

In which case, isn’t that contradicting of his hating the noise of the rice dryer? He was just contributing to more noise pollution!

I’ll tell you, these stubborn Oyaji have more comedic material than most common Manzai wannabes.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Maybe we should make the old katana standard issue for cops. A sword would trump a saw.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Some of you asked was it a chainsaw ... no it was a nokogiri (鋸) just a plain japanese style hand saw.

First off, a rice drying machine? In an apartment……..how did it even fit?

Not everybody who lives in japan lives in an apartment, and actually the article actually mentions a house.

Two police officers in their 50s went to the house of the man with the rice dryer.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

In many countries the police would be trained to be able to shoot at more precise targets such as arms and legs, not sure that the police here are trained enough for me to be happy that they have guns.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

I am not a fan of Japanese police tactics but if the police fire a warning shot into the air, get on your knees.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Good riddance to bad rubbish. Any body brandishing any object as a weapon, should expect to be fatally wounded if they don't drop it when ordered to do so.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

The use of deadly force...

In my opinion, in this situation, it doesn't matter how much "firearms training" you have. The use of deadly force is a calculated reaction to a given situation. We can't possible guess what the real situation was for the suspect or the police officer. There is simply not enough information in the text.

However, It is my belief that Japanese police are trained to deescalate a given situation. If deescalation fails, the use of force thru martial arts/arrest training/baton training ensues. Finally, as a last resort, the use of deadly force (firearm).

Many guesses can be made as to possible extenuating circumstances.

The narrative appears to be given by the police, but the lack of quotations, and a second language makes it difficult to parse. The word "brandishing" has a fairly clear meaning to appear threatening. Was he out cutting something and just had it in his hand, or was he waving it around in an obvious attempt to do harm? Why didn't the police first visit the person reporting the issue? Clarify the dispute. And then address the issue with the second party? Why is the age of the police officers relevant to the story? After arresting the then shot suspect, did the police render first aid? The first officer ordered him to drop the saw, but the second officer fired the warning shot, and then engaged the suspect. Was there clear communication between the officers and the suspect? Anyone brandishing a saw, threatening two armed police officers probably isn't in a good mental state.

In a time restricted situation, training and instinct take over.

In my opinion, "Was the use of deadly force required in this situation?" I don't know. Again, there simple isn't enough information.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

We do not know what kind of saw that was or how physically fit the guy was, so we are imagining scenarios.

Afaic, a 70-year old armed with a "saw" does not sound so intimidating that he needs to get shot dead. May he was a Schwarzenegger type branding a sword-like weapon-saw.... I do not know, but it is not what comes mind if I think about rice farm in Chiba.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Afaic, a 70-year old armed with a "saw" does not sound so intimidating that he needs to get shot dead. May he was a Schwarzenegger type branding a sword-like weapon-saw.... I do not know, but it is not what comes mind if I think about rice farm in Chiba.

My father is 70 and not quite Schwarzenegger but strong enough that if he came at me with a saw I'd run the heck away.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Is a saw a dangerous weapon? you might scratch someone if you hit them with it, but thats about it. Looks like overkill to me.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

@Chabbawanga

My sentiments exactly

0 ( +0 / -0 )

ZaphodAug. 29 03:56 pm JST

A 70-year old armed with a saw? I dont expect the police to be superheroes, but it does not sound like shooting him dead was necessary.

Not sure about that, I doubt if there is any video recording of this incident.

However let me say, the risk something is going wrong, even deadly wrong is with the aggressor. Japanese police is known to use their handguns really very rare, only a few times a year. Compare that with many countries worldwide.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I can understand it if was a gas powered chainsaw but just a saw?

Very rare for a Jcop to pull out his six shooter. I though the Japanese Cops all learn karate for self defense?

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Shoot to wound is an absurdity. It reflects a misconception of real-life dynamics and would impose unrealistic expectations of skill on real-life officers. Training dictates shooting at the largest mass, which is the torso.

Modern training teaches that when an officer uses deadly force the intent should be to stop the suspect’s threatening behavior as fast as possible.

 Ron Avery, himself a championship shooter, head of the Practical Shooting Academy and a member of the Force Science Technical Advisory Board, shooting for an assailant’s center mass is usually considered the most effective first option because the upper torso combines a concentration of vital areas and major blood vessels within the body’s largest target. “When the risk of failure is death, an officer needs the highest percentage chance of success he can get,” Everett notes. Shooting instead for a smaller, faster-moving arm or a leg with the intent to wound rather than to incapacitate invites a myriad of tactical dilemmas.

Experts agree, advocates who push a shoot-to-wound agenda appear to understand little about human dynamics, ballistics, tactics, force legalities or the challenges officers face on the street.

Even when officers are trying to shoot center mass, they often miss. Avery recalled a case he was involved in where an officer firing under high stress just 5 feet from an offender failed to hit him at all with the first 5 rounds and connected with the next four only because the suspect moved into his line of fire. “Hitting an arm or a leg on a moving suspect with surgical precision is virtually impossible,” Avery asserts. “I could probably count on one hand the individuals who can make that kind of shot under the pressure of their life on the line. Expecting that level of performance by police officers on an agency-wide basis is ludicrous.” Misses may well go on to injure or kill someone else.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Police are trained very similar all over the world. There is no such thing as shooting extremities like arms or legs. If someone poses a threat, (with my training you do not differentiate between a bladed weapon or firearm within 7 meters, it is automatically considered to be a lethal threat) you shoot the center mass (chest area) with as many consectutive, aimed bullets as needed to neutralise/stop the threat.

And training goes as far as being drilled into you, that means the body reacts without you having to think. People who have never undergone such training have no idea except the unrealstic stuff you see in movies. That's how it is in real life...

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Your Not the only one that's received firearms training but if your so highly trained then please explain why you carried a 45 everywhere you went ?

As those of us that have received firearms operation and safely know its Not legal or responsible to carry a firearm ANYWHERE !

or do you have level 6 clearance ?

I have a conceleaed to carry weapons permit in my home country. I think you are assuming I carried in Japan? lol.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Lol, I see there are a few elite black ops sharpshooters around. Also, shooting limbs can lead to death (bleeding out, especially from upper shots) and amputations.

A 30cm saw saw blade can be swung pretty easily and being that it's a saw, would be more than a "scratch".

The other cop gave a warning shot. I see no fault in the cops.

As others have pointed out though, why don't they have tasers?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Oxycodin

I can understand it if was a gas powered chainsaw but just a saw?

Very rare for a Jcop to pull out his six shooter. I though the Japanese Cops all learn karate for self defense?

The official police martial art here is Judo. Karate would of limited use anyway, since the last thing you would want is police getting into kickboxing matches.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I assume there will be a detailed inquiry into this?

It's understandable people will question the shooting of a 74 year old man "armed with a saw".

Type of saw, proximity to the police officer, warnings etc. All need to be considered.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

"The official police martial art here is Judo."

No, it is NOT. It is Kendo.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"The official police martial art here is Judo."

No, it is NOT. It is Kendo.

I think there is an element of choice. I know my daughter trained in judo at the police academy, and also did quite a bit of gun practice.

I don’t know if kendo was an option, but it surely wouldn’t be very practical, unless officers carried swords as well as guns.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

3RENSHO

"The official police martial art here is Judo."

No, it is NOT. It is Kendo.

Almost all of them do Kendo and it is strongly encouraged, but the the official MA they all train is is police Judo, which is normal Judo practise plus arrest techniques (taihou waza). I know a bunch of police from sports, so from the horses mouth.

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I have so many questions about this short and straight to the point article. For one, why does a 74-year-old man have a chainsaw, and what is actually considered a “threat” to the police officer whenever you are that elderly? Was the officer legitimately in fear for his life? A rice dryer making too much noise?? I am so confused. So what I am understanding is that the neighbor that made the noise complaint about a rice dryer being too loud basically set the officers up. Is this correct? I can agree with the first officer firing a warning shot into the air, but why did the second one have to be fatally aimed at the perpetrators chest? Why not in his leg, which would have brought him to the ground thus stopping the pursuit of the officers. This article as a whole is bizarre and really lacks information that I feel is necessary to understand the story fully. Could the writer purposely be leaving out information to have the reader confused and biased on one view or the other? Were there other alternatives to use rather than a deadly weapon? Such as a taser. Also, the ending is not sitting well with me. You’re really telling me that while a man is dangling on for life, the last thing they do is arrest him on suspicion of obstructing police in the performance of their duties? I wish I knew more about this situation so I can formulate a more rational opinion on who was right and who was wrong in the situation.

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