Police capture 86-year-old gunman after 8-hour hostage drama at Saitama post office

Justin F. Kayce Today 01:56 pm JST

The obvious seems to continually evade you. This is not the US, this is Japan.

It doesn’t evade me, hence I do not own a firearm in Japan. But in terms of the theoretical issues, government power, the natural rights of citizens, etc., these could be discussed even on the moon! America is neither a socialist or communist country. Yet that does not stop many people in the United States from marching in the streets in openly support of that form of government in direct contradiction to American government. Luckily, American government accepts that such individuals have the freedom of expression to legally voice such views. And as I consider the Japanese Constitution, I note articles 19 and 21 which ensure the right of free though and expression. So I guess even in Japan one can think that firearms should be permitted, even if they cannot possess them.

The country's gun laws better protect the citizens than allowing people to have guns.

Yes, but less chance does not mean no chance

Irrelevant, pretending a solution has to be perfect in order to alleviate a problem is simply irrational. Specially when suggesting an alternative that is even worse at preventing the problem.

But such benefits are not imaginary

Yes they are, what specific situation in Japan could have been prevented? none? that means the benefits are imaginary.

Perhaps for now

Congratulations, you have just accepted that "for now" your suggestion is irrational and makes things worse than what they are now, and will keep that way until the whole situation changes to the point knifes are abused enough to outweigh the benefit of not allowing people to own them.

My contention is that just as the vast majority of knife users commit no criminal act with their knives, so the vast majority of those who possess firearms do not commit criminal acts.

And trying to ignore that knives are simply a much more necessary thing in normal lives than guns, so there is no problem with controlling guns while there would be huge problems banning knives, making only the first measure justified. Trying to ignore the argument do not refute it, it just means you understand you have no argument on your own against it. It is the same standard, just one that you are trying very hard to ignore because it destroys your position

Roy Today 12:40 pm JST

You argued for firearms for "law-abiding individuals", not "security". Make up your mind ... and then forget about it. Japan will never have the US' ridiculous gun laws and fetishism.

I argued for firearms for law-abiding individuals in light of the general dangerous situation. If there were armed individuals present during the 2008 Akihabara massacre, might not Tomohiro Katō have been taken down faster? If there were armed individuals present during the 2019 Kawasaki stabbings, might not Ryuichi Iwasaki have been taken down faster? Etc. But what I particularly had in mind were personal encounters. Your caricature of armed doctors, nurses or patients not withstanding, armed security at such a facility would likely have prevented further problems. And should we talk about legitimately armed individuals who could have been present, well if there had been armed individual bystanders with permits to carry, such as individuals visiting patients, well…

But you are probably correct. Japan will likely not move to have gun laws like the US for the same reason that swords were seized by the Japanese government during the transition from the Bakufu government to the Meiji government and peasants could not have swords under the Bakufu government: population control. And, given the Japanese cultural predilection of deference to authority, I do not see Japanese people arguing for individual rights in this any time soon.

virusrex Today 01:00 pm JST

With the criminal having much less chances to be using a gun thanks to those laws, that is the whole purpose.

Yes, but less chance does not mean no chance. But with a prohibition on firearms on law-abiding individuals there is indeed no chance that such individuals will be able to defend themselves against armed criminals who do not care about laws.

Justifying the very real costs of having an easy access to gun with the imaginary benefits of opposing the government is not a valid argument.

But such benefits are not imaginary. Indeed, the whole reason that America has the right to firearms which it does is partially due to real government abuse suffered by the population under the then existing English legal structure.

Yet a much more limited danger than what happens in some countries with easy access to guns, and obviously do not address at all the huge cost of prohibiting a tool that actually is used in the daily lives of most of the population instead of a tool almost nobody has to use at all. Ignoring the argument do not make it disappear, it still proves your position as irrational and invalid.

Perhaps for now. But as society becomes more unstable criminals will increasingly be wielding knives and firearms. Hopefully there will be enough young men and women to join the police force to protect everyone. And my point in arguing for banning knives is that it is really the same argument as that used against guns: there are those that seek to ban the object itself rather than limit access to responsible users of that object.

My contention is that just as the vast majority of knife users commit no criminal act with their knives, so the vast majority of those who possess firearms do not commit criminal acts. Therefore I would not advocate for prohibitions on either knives or firearms on the basis that some criminal minded individuals use these objects for criminal activities. But the position of those who wish for a total prohibition on firearms seems to be that because some criminal minded individuals use an object to which they personally object for criminal activities, it should be prohibited, but if the object is one to which they personally do not object, then it should not be prohibited, even if some criminally minded individual could potentially use that object for a criminal activity. This appears to me a double-standard.

And, as envisioned in the American constitution, what if it is the government itself that is the one acting criminally against the people? 

The obvious seems to continually evade you. This is not the US, this is Japan. There are plenty of other forums on a plethora of platforms that would allow you to post on that debate.

The fool looks half dead. Give him 15 years hard labor and finish off the job. Pure scum.

jeffyToday  11:11 am JST

*Did this person not know that Japan has laws that prohibit individuals from possessing firearms? Who could have ever imagined that a person who wished to engage in a criminal activity would flaunt the law! What is this world coming to! *

And the prohibition on firearms is obviously not enough. Just recently a monk attacked a woman with “a knife or something similar.” Where was the public outcry to get legislation passed which prohibits knives and similar things? Apparently everyone approves of such acts. What insanity!

Your use of rhetoric in comparing this case to current shooting incidents in the US is not missed by even the most naive of readers here. As you probably well know, any legislation pertaining to the ability to obtain, possess, or operate firearms in Japan was initiated probably before Mr. Suzuki was even born. That said your argument becomes irrelevant by attempting to make a comparison of three completely different debates, and therefore also irrelevant to this particular article.

@sakurasuki

Again comments based on what?

The view incidents in Japan and you are already making a lot of noise. It would be good to see the rest of the world and than you will consider that Japan is still safe.

Every country has its problems and Japan included.

And yet when a criminal, who flaunts the law anyways, encounters a law-abiding individual, now constrained from having a firearm, then the law-abiding individual will necessarily be at the mercy of the criminal with no means to defend themselves.

With the criminal having much less chances to be using a gun thanks to those laws, that is the whole purpose.

And, as envisioned in the American constitution, what if it is the government itself that is the one acting criminally against the people? What will the police do to help then?

Justifying the very real costs of having an easy access to gun with the imaginary benefits of opposing the government is not a valid argument.

All of that seems pretty dangerous

Yet a much more limited danger than what happens in some countries with easy access to guns, and obviously do not address at all the huge cost of prohibiting a tool that actually is used in the daily lives of most of the population instead of a tool almost nobody has to use at all. Ignoring the argument do not make it disappear, it still proves your position as irrational and invalid.

Roy Today 12:40 pm JST

So your point is that the doctor and the patient in the hospital should have been armed? Or is preemptively shooting people more of a task for the nurses?

No. But how about some armed security at the hospital.

The public prosecutor will have to establish his state of mind first.

He almost looks like an embalmed corpse.

Indeed. That photo looks weird. Maybe heavily sedated? Very strange story...

virusrex Today 12:11 pm JST

Enough for what? eliminating the risk completely? of course not, nothing is, but to reduce the risk significantly? yes it seems obvious it is.

And yet when a criminal, who flaunts the law anyways, encounters a law-abiding individual, now constrained from having a firearm, then the law-abiding individual will necessarily be at the mercy of the criminal with no means to defend themselves. They only hope for the individual is not to get shot while waiting for the police to take out the criminal. And, as envisioned in the American constitution, what if it is the government itself that is the one acting criminally against the people? What will the police do to help then?

A knife is less dangerous than a fire gun but more importantly it is much more necessary for the daily life of most people. There is no real downside of regulating firearms to the degree it is done in Japan, it would be practically impossible to do the same for knives, much higher cost for less benefit means the prohibition is not justified.

Less dangerous does not mean not dangerous, so what is the "permissible level of danger"? I note:

In 2008, Tomohiro Katō, a 25-year-old man committed the Akihabara massacre, killing seven people. Eight years prior, Mamoru Takuma murdered eight children at an elementary school in the Osaka school massacre. In 2016, 26-year-old Satoshi Uematsu committed one of the most serious incidents of mass murder in Japan since World War II, when he stabbed 19 severely disabled people to death at a care center. Further incidents happened again in 2008 when Masahiro Kanagawa killed a man and injured scores of others with a knife and most recently, the Kawasaki stabbings in 2019, when a man, Ryuichi Iwasaki, 51, who self-identified as a hikikomori, killed two schoolchildren and injured 18 others at a bus stop before killing himself. Two months after the attack, 24-year-old Kyota Hattori, who dressed as Joker, committed attempted murder and arson in a Keiō Line train at Chōfu in October, resulting in 17 passengers being injured.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_2021_Tokyo_stabbings

All of that seems pretty dangerous. As for necessity, well if there are potential criminals with knives and firearms about, then one may perhaps find it necessary to be able to defend themselves against such criminals. While stories of how some mentally unstable person with a firearm killed people usually make the national news, the daily stories of armed criminals being preemptively taken out in encounters with armed law-abiding individuals do not usually make national news. Yet it is the people who are against firearms that seize on the exceptional stories to call for a complete ban on firearms.

Prisons have very strict rules.

> Given what I know about the Japanese prison system, if he ever see's the inside of one, he will have a cushy life,

@opheliajadefeldt Ok, by writing that I ascertain you probably know nothing about the Japanese prison system! Maybe in comparison to North Korea, it's cushy!

Japan has the best gun laws in the world. There are very few handguns. It takes 10 years to own a rifle.

On old Yak that got POed about something it looks like.

And the prohibition on firearms is obviously not enough

Enough for what? eliminating the risk completely? of course not, nothing is, but to reduce the risk significantly? yes it seems obvious it is.

Where was the public outcry to get legislation passed which prohibits knives and similar things?

A knife is less dangerous than a fire gun but more importantly it is much more necessary for the daily life of most people. There is no real downside of regulating firearms to the degree it is done in Japan, it would be practically impossible to do the same for knives, much higher cost for less benefit means the prohibition is not justified.

Hundreds of police surrounded the PO........really, hundreds, What the hell were they all doing? It is good this idiot did not kill anyone but the trauma getting over it will take a long time. Given what I know about the Japanese prison system, if he ever see's the inside of one, he will have a cushy life, probably a lot better than what he has been used to.

toraToday 11:16 am JST

I had to re-read that one. "Stormed into?" Come on Yamaguchi-san! (the jounalist who wrote this drivel). How does an 86-year old person "storm" into a building? More like "shuffled in", or something less dramatic. Surely?

The article reads:

Police said they captured the gunman when they [= the police] stormed into the building

Did you actually re-read it?

From the article:

Police said they captured the gunman when they stormed into the building...

I had to re-read that one. "Stormed into?" Come on Yamaguchi-san! (the jounalist who wrote this drivel). How does an 86-year old person "storm" into a building? More like "shuffled in", or something less dramatic. Surely?

Did this person not know that Japan has laws that prohibit individuals from possessing firearms? Who could have ever imagined that a person who wished to engage in a criminal activity would flaunt the law! What is this world coming to!

And the prohibition on firearms is obviously not enough. Just recently a monk attacked a woman with “a knife or something similar.” Where was the public outcry to get legislation passed which prohibits knives and similar things? Apparently everyone approves of such acts. What insanity!

He won't spend more than a year in prison. He's old, senile, incompetent to stand trial. Probably doesn't remember a thing. How did he get the gun? How did make the gun? Sorry, ladies and gents, but we eventually will pay for his crime with our freedom.

Gun. Tracksuit. Sounds like ex-yakuza.

Man, I used to live in Warabi and passed that post office almost every day. Can't believe something like this could happen in little Warabi.

Happy that all the hostages and everyone is safe.

otherworldly Today | 09:14 am JST

"Why are the police officers wearing masks?"

OK, I will take a stab at answering this relevant and legitimate question -- the police officers are wearing masks due to the fact they are police officers.

Funny. Every time something dangerous happens in Japan, so many people start off their post with Japan is so safe.

Looks like an aged Yak!

How did he obtain that weapon, it is said that Japan is a safe country with very difficult to get a weapon.

Not if you know the right people.

so he burnt his house and belongings.. no intention to return home. Shoots two people at a hospital where they can get immediate medical help and probably not die. then hold some people hostage for the day and slowly let them go.

To me it sounds like a state funded retirement plan lots of crimes enough to get him at least 10 + years which at 86 is probably all he is going to need. Seems to be pretty well planned out.

I'm always amazed / impressed at the advanced ages of so many of the criminals featured in J-T articles. In the US prisoners pushing into their 70s are often paroled due to their "advanced age" and being perceived as no longer being a threat. Seems like in Japan the bad guys are just hitting their stride at such ages /:

True. A lot of Japanese gang members are in their 60s, 70s and 80s. I guess in places like the US they don't survive much past 30, for obvious reasons.

He doesn't look a day over 264.

He almost looks like an embalmed corpse.

I'm always amazed / impressed at the advanced ages of so many of the criminals featured in J-T articles. In the US prisoners pushing into their 70s are often paroled due to their "advanced age" and being perceived as no longer being a threat. Seems like in Japan the bad guys are just hitting their stride at such ages /:

 I doubt the authorities will be able to find 'motive' 

Pretty sure will find a motive.

One does not prepare such crimes - no matter how clumsily - without having a motive. Preparing a container of kerosene, a gun of some sort, and making demands to meet people says that there was a motive involved and not just a random brain snap.

Targeting medical professionals may indicate a grudge against them for some personal reason - but that is my speculation. Let's see how it plays out.

Glad no-one died.

Police said they captured the gunman

Good on the police for capturing the man and not killing him. I like this aspect of Japanese policing compared to certain gun-goofy countries. I doubt the authorities will be able to find 'motive' but they might learn more about the man's background which could possibly provide a bit of insight into his actions,beyond he snapped, which seems to be the case in most arsons/shootings.

Pensions are still paid for prisoners.

This codger figures at his age he'd be better off in jail getting fed clothed and sheltered at the taxpayer's expense.

 ...a crime that carries a punishment of up to 10 years in prison.

This old man will now be se(n)t up for life to a retirement home with bars and free room and board and medical care. He makes it look easy for the desperately impecunious looking for a way out.

They probably want to hide their identity

Why are the police officers wearing masks?

@sakura: Japanese media like to portrait Japan as safe country

From my perspective Japan is a safe country, but I come from the US, so many countries seem safe in comparison. I feel much safer here than I do when visiting the US and also reading sbout places in the US. Japan has a large population, and most Japanese I know and have been around are people I feel safe being near, yes I have seen whackos on the street, which makes sense, since in any large population outliers and anomalies are bound to be found, I would much rather be around a large crowd of Japanese than a large crowd of US Americans, because in the US someone in the crowd might be carrying guns and for whatever reason flip out. Yes, I'm aware of slashers and Sarin Gas, plus bad vehicle drivers. In my opinion having ewer guns is one thing making a safer society

He will spend his remaining life in prison.

He wanted to "meet" someone, maybe PM Kishida. Inflation possibly digging into his pension too heavily. Does not say if he had the gun legally but it probably was. You can own guns in Japan but must pass rigorous licensing.

Glad to hear the hostages weren’t hurt.

Why, why, why does an 86-year-old man in a black Adidas tracksuit shoot up a hospital in Toda, then travel down the street to a post office in Warabi, take two female staff hostage at gun point, and demand that officials arrange a meeting with an unidentified person — in an area where, according to Reuters, “gang-related crime is prevalent”?

Oh you forgot, start a fire in his apartment building at the same time too! Maybe the cops arrested superman or at least the Flash!

So much information is missing.

Why, why, why does an 86-year-old man in a black Adidas tracksuit shoot up a hospital in Toda, then travel down the street to a post office in Warabi, take two female staff hostage at gun point, and demand that officials arrange a meeting with an unidentified person — in an area where, according to Reuters, “gang-related crime is prevalent”?

https://jp.reuters.com/article/us-japan-kurds-specialreport-idUSKCN10J1BK

In Japanese media like to portrait Japan as safe country, is easier to show this just work of one whackos than gang related crime.

So much information is missing.

Why, why, why does an 86-year-old man in a black Adidas tracksuit shoot up a hospital in Toda, then travel down the street to a post office in Warabi, take two female staff hostage at gun point, and demand that officials arrange a meeting with an unidentified person — in an area where, according to Reuters, “gang-related crime is prevalent”?

https://jp.reuters.com/article/us-japan-kurds-specialreport-idUSKCN10J1BK

Horrible, evil old man. Join the dots on what he wanted to do with the kerosene. The psychological impact on his innocent victims will take a long time to get over.

Enjoy the rest of your miserable days behind bars, Suzuki.

How did he obtain that weapon, it is said that Japan is a safe country with very difficult to get a weapon.

That’s what I want to know, seriously. It’s almost impossible to get your hands on a gun. But as they say, “where there’s a will, there’s a way.”

He could be the oldest gunman in criminal history. Perhaps he is willfully doing the crime to get into prison to have free accommodation, health care and food for the rest of his life. He don't want to be free. He just want to state to take care of his needs !

Once again, glad I live in a country where guns are scarce. Too many whackos.

Whackos are proven dangerous than anything they'll get themselves with something, gasoline in Kyoto Ani or knife in Japanese train Joker incident in 2021 . In Japan, The nail that sticks out gets hammered down” “出る釘は打たれる", so Japanese pretend that these whackos don't exist.

Once again, glad I live in a country where guns are scarce. Too many whackos.

Bizarre.

capture 86-year-old gunman after 8-hour hostage drama at Saitama post office

He know how to make this year Halloween becoming near horror in Japan.

The 86-year-old man had entered the post office with a gun in Warabi, Saitama Prefecture

How did he obtain that weapon, it is said that Japan is a safe country with very difficult to get a weapon.