Accused groper dies after jumping out of train station office window

More cameras, less groping, less fake accusations, less suicides

TV Tokyo reported that the girl accused the man of groping her as they were leaving the train and called for help. A male passenger grabbed the man and handed him over to station personnel.

Something smells fishy here...

That's one way of admitting your guilt. A bit drastic, but...

@Good

If you had ever been on a rush hour train in Japan, you would realize that cameras would not be able to see anything in the mass of people.

Hmmm no need for these extremes! A court of law should have been sufficient to prove his innocence or guilt!

hopefully not an extortion attempt by the accuser!

RIP

GoodToday  04:57 pm JST

More cameras, less groping, less fake accusations, less suicides

Innocent people don't commit suicide. Also, more cameras on trains aren't going to help. When people are packed into a busy train, you're not going to see anything happen on a camera and these perverts know this. They just hope the women will keep quiet and not say anything.

@hellokitty

If you had ever been on a rush hour train in Japan, you would realize that cameras would not be able to see anything in the mass of people.

Perhaps if we put the cameras on the floor looking up….. no wait…..

That’s some fall. Another one decided to bypass the Japanese “Justice” system?

Must be the translation. Was it more of a ‘dove out’ head-first versus ‘jumped out’ feet-first ?

Will yield to the architects and more learned here but isn’t it normally 3.3 meters per building “story”?

Guilt is written all over the jump

Innocent people don't commit suicide.

Innocent people do commit suicide, I remember reading about a college kid who was accused of molestation on an escalator by a drunk girl, beaten up by her drunk male friends and handed over to the police.

He was a language student so was had a recorder on where he clearly said many times on how an innocent person could be accused and life destroyed. He jumped in front of a train a few hours later.

So it's not correct to blame people without investigating facts!

Good job for the girl to ask for help and great work for the passerby to detain the guy. With these two things combine, these gropers don't stand a chance.

He was probably just trying to escape, not commit suicide. He just misjudged the height and/or his ability to handle the jump.

@takumi

innocent people don't commit suicide.

Whether he was guilty or not it doesn't matter once he being accused, he is automatically guilty in Japan.

https://japantoday.com/category/crime/japan-guilty-until-proven-innocent-documentary-shines-light-on-controversial-legal-system

Most probably it was not a suicide. The jump was meant to escape the justice and embarrassment. Somehow lost the balance in the process hitting the roof and then platform.

RIP

TV Tokyo reported that the girl accused the man of groping her as they were leaving the train and called for help

Another teen causing trouble, that incident occured during morning rush hour, so it's not necessarily that girl get right person.

https://japantoday.com/category/crime/teen-calls-police-over-man-she-thinks-is-holding-a-knife

Will yield to the architects and more learned here but isn’t it normally 3.3 meters per building “story”?

I would presume the second floor was on top of the station itself, with platform level being the first floor.

Oops

Coward, coward, 61-year-old despicable coward, could have faced up to his groper picadillo's and seek counselling for his sexual dysfunction.

Yet he now commits his family to bear the ignominy and shame.

Many Japanese can't handle shame and equally fear the severe punishment society imposes on offenders without rank or powerful position on society's totem pole. Such sex-starved individuals, as the 61-year-old ojisan most likely was, are too weak to face the consequences of their momentary loss of self-control. It's a shame and a tragedy that suicide was his only recourse, and not the psychological counseling and assistance that he might have received.

I sincerely apologise to the family of the deceased. The loss to the family of a husband and possibly father is irreparable. I unreservedly retract the coward rant.

If the allegation were proven the man should have reached out for help.

Not jumped out of the widow. Such actions could be construed as admittance of guilt.

TakumiToday  05:51 pm JST

GoodToday  04:57 pm JST

More cameras, less groping, less fake accusations, less suicides

Innocent people don't commit suicide. Also, more cameras on trains aren't going to help. When people are packed into a busy train, you're not going to see anything happen on a camera and these perverts know this. They just hope the women will keep quiet and not say anything.

Well I hope your a qualified mental health professional because there have been many a falsely accused committing suicide. That person who may be innocent may already be suffering depression or a psychotic episode. So yes, many innocent people have committed suicide because of shame, stigma etc.

Your is just an opinion, not fact.

Some men who have been falsely accused or convicted or rape, have certainly contemplated suicide. Especially in Japan where the conviction rate is 99%. I think there was a case about a man in a train some years back trying to prove his innocence.

Accused groper dies after jumping out of train station office window

Alleged groper dies after jumping out of train station office window.

But, now we will never know if it was a false accusation or not.

How is it possible to know on such a crowded train whose hand did what?

I can't recall a single case of a false accusation of groping. The whole idea is absurd. If you accuse someone of groping, it becomes a law enforcement matter. There is no financial incentive to make false accusations. Yet, reading the misogynistic comments on this thread, one would think false accusations are happening a hundred times a day.

I can't recall a single case of a false accusation of groping.

Good for you. I hope you aren't silly enough to think this is evidence that it doesn't happen. Such a conclusion would be very low-intelligence, as it is illogical.

The whole idea is absurd. If you accuse someone of groping, it becomes a law enforcement matter. There is no financial incentive to make false accusations.

Oh, so you haven't even bothered to research how the scams work. There most definitely IS a financial incentive. Try researching before posting.

Yet, reading the misogynistic comments on this thread, one would think false accusations are happening a hundred times a day.

I'm curious about which comments specifically you think are misogynistic.

I can't recall a single case of a false accusation of groping.

I can. It was a social problem 40 years ago, There were occasionally false accusations, scams around and extortion of such a nature. My best advice is, don't go everywhere in Japan waring rose tinted spectacles.

In my neck of the woods, if you die trying to escape an unlawful detention, your captors are charged with murder

In my neck of the woods, if you die trying to escape an unlawful detention, your captors are charged with murder

Are you suggesting this detention was unlawful? And if so, how did it contravene the law?

In my neck of the woods, if you die trying to escape an unlawful detention, your captors are charged with murder

Very good point. Relatives of the deceased should have a very good civil case, although I'm not sure (and there seems to be no real clarity) how Japan's law deals with a citizens arrest which has gone wrong.

Relatives of the deceased should have a very good civil case

Based on…?

Some people just cant go through the legal process to prove their innocence,

In advanced countries which have a proper rule of law, it is for the prosecution to establish guilt, not the defendant to prove their innocence. Japans kangaroo court legal system just can't handle that. This gives a perfect environment to scammers and extortionists, who believe or not, do exist in Japan. (Sorry to disappoint Japanaphiles).

Relatives of the deceased should have a very good civil case

Based on…?

Based on the station personnel failed to keep him safe while detained until lawful authority arrived.

Based on the station personnel failed to keep him safe while detained until lawful authority arrived.

And are you thinking they had this legal responsibility in Japan?

Based on the station personnel failed to keep him safe while detained until lawful authority arrived.

And are you thinking they had this legal responsibility in Japan?

Everybody in Japan has a legal responsibility.

@Strangerland

Are you suggesting this detention was unlawful? And if so, how did it contravene the law?

It could well be an illegal detention as the Japanese code of criminal Procedure article 214 states:

When any person other than a public prosecutor, a public prosecutor's assistant officer or a judicial police official has arrested a flagrant offender, the arrester shall immediately deliver him/her to a public prosecutor of a district or local public prosecutors office or to a judicial police official.

Basically they should deliver them immediately to the police. Detaining is not delivering so yeah it is likely that it is illegal.

Everybody in Japan has a legal responsibility.

The question was whether they have THIS legal responsibility. Are you of the position that they do have THIS legal responsibility, and if so, what put you on that position?

@Strangerland The question was whether they have THIS legal responsibility. Are you of the position that they do have THIS legal responsibility, and if so, what put you on that position?

In answer to your interesting question, it would depend upon how Japan's rule of law (cultural) aspect reacts to a citizens arrest. When I studied basic law in my early days, we were told by our professor this : "If you ever make a citizens arrest, just make damn sure you get it right, and have it right, and do it right, otherwise you will be wide open to one big law suite against you".

In answer to your interesting question, it would depend upon how Japan's rule of law (cultural) aspect reacts to a citizens arrest.

Well, your note has changed from your certainty that:

Relatives of the deceased should have a very good civil case

It seems you really don't know whether they would or not.

@Strangerland. Well really it's a matter for lawful authority. The relatives certainly have a good case to file a complaint. Personally, I have always followed my professors advice many years ago. Being a good citizen is a good thing, but just make sure that you are 300% right. What is sad though, is that good citizens often refuse to get involved, because of the risk of a law suite.

@Strangerland. Well really it's a matter for lawful authority. The relatives certainly have a good case to file a complaint.

Again, based on what? Citizens arrest is perfectly legal in Japan when in the act of crime, and the correct procedure is to hand them over to station staff, who call the police. Everything appears to have been done within the legal requirements in Japan, so I cannot see any reason whatsoever a civil case would even move forward here.

You might be mixing up Japan and America. Not so easy to sue people willy-nilly in Japan.

You might be mixing up Japan and America. Not so easy to sue people willy-nilly in Japan.

Certainly agree with that.

See how this one plays out.

StrangerlandToday 12:45 am JST

I'm curious about which comments specifically you think are misogynistic.

The comments where men automatically accuse women of lying about the prevalence of groping on Japanese train system, when it is a fact that groping is a common occurrence.

What I find especially ironic is that the same men calling for others not to judge accused gropers before they are proven guilty are just fine with accusing women of lying without any evidence whatsoever.

Just lock the windows in rooms you are interviewing suspects.

The comments where men automatically accuse women of lying about the prevalence of groping on Japanese train system

Who has done that in this thread?

What I find especially ironic is that the same men calling for others not to judge accused gropers before they are proven guilty are just fine with accusing women of lying without any evidence whatsoever.

I’m not seeing this here either.

“More cameras, less groping, less fake accusations, less suicides.” What ignorance! This is the kind of comment that shows how much standards have slipped.

”More cameras, less groping, FEWER fake accusations, FEWER suicides,” I think you’ll find.

Note, some people won’t see the satire in this and think I’m being serious.

Again, based on what? Citizens arrest is perfectly legal in Japan when in the act of crime, and the correct procedure is to hand them over to station staff, who call the police. Everything appears to have been done within the legal requirements in Japan, so I cannot see any reason whatsoever a civil case would even move forward here.

Actually one could argue that no it hasn't as Japans law states:

the arrester shall immediately deliver him/her to a public prosecutor of a district or local public prosecutors office or to a judicial police official

I am pretty sure a station employee is not a public prosecutor of a district or local public prosecutors office or judicial police official.

From what the story says he was delivered to a station employee when he jumped out of a window.

Actually one could argue that no it hasn't as Japans law states:

the arrester shall immediately deliver him/her to a public prosecutor of a district or local public prosecutors office or to a judicial police official

I am pretty sure a station employee is not a public prosecutor of a district or local public prosecutors office or judicial police official.

Oh dear, I hope you aren't counselling people on Japanese law. Hint - go read the actual wording in the Japanese law. That's not a great translation.

StrangerlandToday 07:11 am JST

Who has done that in this thread

I’m not seeing this here either.

Of course you don't, because you deny this ever happens, even when its right in your face - pretending misogyny doesn't exist is what you guys do.

Of course you don't, because you deny this ever happens

Well no, I don't see it, because you made it up. Which is why you can't quote anyone.

Innocent people don't commit suicide.

Japan has a long history of innocent people committing ritual suicide to take the blame for their bosses or for the mistakes of their charges.

Not even the law can punish him as much as he has punished himself.

In advanced countries which have a proper rule of law, it is for the prosecution to establish guilt, 

seems in most advanced countries it's trial by media. Anyone can come forward to say (s)he touched my bottom 30 years ago at a party and the reputation of the accused is in tatters, all before a fair trial.

I agree with your comment. What also makes me uncomfortable is that the name of the accuser is withheld, but the name of the person being accused is published. In this case, a dead man cannot defend himself.

Innocent people don't commit suicide.

Japan has a long history of innocent people committing ritual suicide to take the blame for their bosses or for the mistakes of their charges.

In a country where a person can be held for 23 days without a charge, and then detained indefinitely is they do not confess, is it any wonder that innocent people in Japan sometimes commit suicide.

The comments where men automatically accuse women of lying about the prevalence of groping on Japanese train system, when it is a fact that groping is a common occurrence.

There was no trial in this case so no proof of the accused guilt, so innocent until proven guilty. Unless you fall into the camp of believing all women as they are incapable of lies. In which case you should have a look at the Depp vs Heard.

I agree with Strangerland

I see nothing of what you say here Girl In Tokyo. I also fail to see where Strangerland wrote it never happens. I think you are just picking fights with the person not the comments.

Alan HarrisonMay 27  05:52 am JST

@Strangerland. Well really it's a matter for lawful authority. The relatives certainly have a good case to file a complaint. Personally, I have always followed my professors advice many years ago. Being a good citizen is a good thing, but just make sure that you are 300% right. What is sad though, is that good citizens often refuse to get involved, because of the risk of a law suite.

This is true in common law jurisdictions. If you detain someone who is later found to not have been committing a criminal act, then you are liable civilly and criminally.

StrangerlandMay 27  06:01 am JST

Again, based on what? Citizens arrest is perfectly legal in Japan when in the act of crime,

It is not a crime until proven to be a crime. That is Alan Harrison's point.

And here, as the title notes, the person is "accused", but he has not been convicted of a crime, and will not be.

So, there was no "act of crime"; just an allegation.

It is not a crime until proven to be a crime. That is Alan Harrison's point.

And here, as the title notes, the person is "accused", but he has not been convicted of a crime, and will not be.

So, there was no "act of crime"; just an allegation.

Um... and then theres's the actual law:

日本法では現行犯逮捕にのみ私人逮捕が認められている。現行犯人の逮捕は、司法警察職員に限らず何人でも（一般人でも誰でも）逮捕状がなくても行うことができるとされている（刑事訴訟法213条）。これは、現行犯人が現に犯行を行っているか行い終わったところであるため、逮捕して身柄を確保する必要が高い上に、誤認逮捕のおそれがないためである。

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%A7%81%E4%BA%BA%E9%80%AE%E6%8D%95

The "whydunnit" is always far more interesting than the "whodunnit" since the perpetrators themselves are most often unaware of what drove them to act as they did. Such is humankind's lamentable lack of self-awareness and self-knowledge. To get to the truth means "diving deep", an activity anathema to superficial minds.

StrangerlandToday 12:34 am JST

It is not a crime until proven to be a crime. That is Alan Harrison's point.

And here, as the title notes, the person is "accused", but he has not been convicted of a crime, and will not be.

So, there was no "act of crime"; just an allegation.

Um... and then theres's the actual law:

Ha! Here you are, calling this woman a liar with zero evidence, but at the same time are quite happy to berate people for using the available evidence and their common sense to speculate on the man's guilt.

No, no misogyny here, nope ... not at all. :) After all, women lie about sexual assault, men never commit sexual assault, and it's perfectly plausible that a man would jump out of a window for no reason whatsoever. Yep, no misogyny here ...

kyushubillMay 27 11:04 pm JST

I agree with Strangerland

I see nothing of what you say here Girl In Tokyo. I also fail to see where Strangerland wrote it never happens. I think you are just picking fights with the person not the comments.

Why, my goodness! You are right!

There are no men here saying this woman is lying about having been sexually assaulted on the train. All they are saying is that this man might not be guilty. That's totally different! Because if he isn't guilty, it means the woman lied about him groping her ...

Oh wait ...

There are no men here saying this woman is lying about having been sexually assaulted on the train

You keep saying this, and it keeps being not as true as when you said it previously. Literally no one has called her a liar other than you.

StrangerlandToday 10:08 am JST

You keep saying this, and it keeps being not as true as when you said it previously. Literally no one has called her a liar other than you.

So ... you're saying she is NOT lying, and thus the man did grope her?

Then we agree!

So ... you're saying she is NOT lying, and thus the man did grope her?

No, that's not what I said. Here's exactly what I said:

You keep saying this, and it keeps being not as true as when you said it previously. Literally no one has called her a liar other than you.

I didn't make any judgement as to whether she was lying, nor whether the man was guilty either way. You only made that up in your head mate.

StrangerlandToday 11:26 am JST

No, that's not what I said. Here's exactly what I said:

You keep saying this, and it keeps being not as true as when you said it previously. Literally no one has called her a liar other than you.

I didn't make any judgement as to whether she was lying, nor whether the man was guilty either way. You only made that up in your head mate.

Oh, now I see! What you're saying is that it's possible he didn't grope her, and just jumped out of the window for a reason other than he didn't want to be prosecuted for sexual assault.

And she's NOT lying, she is just ... not telling the truth about that guy groping her. Ah, now THAT makes much more sense! Not lying, just not telling the truth! :)

Oh, now I see! What you're saying is that it's possible he didn't grope her, and just jumped out of the window for a reason other than he didn't want to be prosecuted for sexual assault

That’s not actually what I said.

But that possibility does exist. Are you claiming it doesn’t?

StrangerlandToday 02:02 pm JST

That’s not actually what I said.

But that possibility does exist. Are you claiming it doesn’t?

Hmm. Let me think ...

A woman purposefully lies to the police about someone groping her, and then stands back and watches as he is arrested. She does this for the LOLs. Then the arrested man jumps out a window cause ... well, 'cause.

Sure! There's such a strong possibility of that happening that it totally merits a bunch of men pointing it out just to make sure that any woman reading the comments knows that the men are onto them! The men know all about the womens' nefarious plot to falsely accuse men, then watch as the men get arrested and take a nose dive out of a window. Cause LOLs.

You didn’t really answer the question. Are you saying that it’s not a possibility he was innocent and that he was definitely guilty?