crime

Appeal starts over 2017 murder of 9-year-old Vietnamese girl

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Tragic. That poor little girl and her family and friends.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

The government committing murder of those that commit murder is akin to doing a huge line of coke in front of your child and then telling them it's bad so they shouldn't do it. (Sharon Stone in Casino.)

-2 ( +8 / -10 )

Scum like him are why I support Japan having the death penalty. It's definitely necessary in this case, no question

3 ( +11 / -8 )

From the article, "The defense had argued that the DNA evidence might have been forged or contaminated."

Based on what? What leads you to make such a claim?

7 ( +7 / -0 )

What grounds for appeal does he have? Surely you need to intrude new evidence

5 ( +5 / -0 )

I do not support the death penalty because the criminal's suffering will end in their death. Whereas, the suffering of the family will go on forever. However, life in prison should mean life in prison, never to be released.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

japanese call their legal system chaban a farce it is

0 ( +2 / -2 )

"saying the murder was not premeditated." WTF He planned to grab her in his van and ... is that not premeditated enough for you?

9 ( +10 / -1 )

9 years old, a little girl, kidnapped, sexually assaulted, strangled to death. . . Ewww! What a monster!

6 ( +7 / -1 )

@ Chip Star - so everyone who doesn't agree with your stance on the death penalty is uneducated? That monster had no problem handing out the death penalty to an innocent little girl. Now you're worried about his rights?

3 ( +8 / -5 )

This guy is going to swing, No Doubt. If ever there was a case that deserve the death penalty in Japan, this is one.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Emotions and public outcry aside, if the evidence clearly frame this guy to the case, then there's really no reason to spare him. String him up high, prison is too good for this one

4 ( +7 / -3 )

To this case specifically, I can't remember extra details well, but I think the guy was usually guarding her route to school but was not there that day and his alibi was garbage. However, I do note the article and everyone seems FAR too over-reliant on DNA evidence as if its some kind of magic bullet. Its lazy thinking like that that also makes me against the death penalty because if its later found the lab screwed up, the police tainted the evidence accidentally, or someone planted it all, there is no way to bring back the innocent guy that was killed. Don't get me wrong, I think he is guilty, but we can never REALLY be 100 percent sure without a video.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

He has collected signatures from 1.34 million people seeking the death penalty for Shibuya.

That is twisted. There is 1.34 million people which thought it was a good idea to have other people death granted over petitioning, really ? Did they not think of what they were asking for ?

So how many signatures do someone need to collect to allow killing ?

How many for rape ?

How many for robbery ?

Does it work retroactively ?

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Awful crime. But it doesn't get any less awful by society lowering itself to the perpetrator's level by taking revenge. Life imprisonment is clearly the correct response here.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

I have never seen a complex argument for the death penalty nor one borne out by statistics. To arrive at my opinion of the death penalty and other justice related concepts took the reading of a book from cover to cover which was detailed, logical and evidenced, and clearly written by an expert.

Its not a question of what he deserves. Its not a question of how people feel. Its not a question of an eye for an eye. Its a question of what our choices today hold for the future. Given that we are not living on a small island with inadequate holding facilities, the death penalty accomplishes nothing good for the future. It does not deter future crime, it does not prevent the perp committing future crime any better than life in prison, and it does not cure the pain of the relatives or bring them closure how ever they may "feel" about it right now.

Most opinion I read about it amount what the speaker "hopes" the death penalty will accomplish and is based on no statistics or proven facts whatsoever. That is not something truly educated people do.

And worse is that we all know that there are a ton of trolls out there who get off on the death of others. Naturally those people are screaming for the death penalty, and we don't know who they are.

Even if Shibuya is 100 percent guilty he should not be killed. But we will never be 100 percent sure and if he is later determined innocent then ANOTHER innocent was murdered.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Flute: That is twisted. There is 1.34 million people which thought it was a good idea to have other people death granted over petitioning, really ? Did they not think of what they were asking for ? So how many signatures do someone need to collect to allow killing? How many for rape? How many for robbery? Does it work retroactively?

No, this is twisted.

What happened is that 1.34 million people thought the perpetrator who raped, killed, and then disposed off the body of a 9 years old girl signed the petition to show that they support and believe the death penalty is fitting for him. You have to note that no amount of signatures are going to somehow "allow" or "grant" the death penalty, that's not how the system works. And there's no need to vilify this as if signatures can somehow allow for rape or robbery.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

@Rob990

So you think it is normal to have 1.34 million people sign a petition to ask for the death of someone. It is what is written :

He has collected signatures from 1.34 million people seeking the death penalty for Shibuya.

These people signed a petition seeking the death penalty.

When you sign a petition seeking for the stop of animal testing for cosmetic, it means you want it to stop. You are expecting than by having enough signature they will stop. That is what a petition is.

They didn't endorse a notice claiming they find the judgement too lenient. They sign a petition seeking death penalty. They sign to request someone to be killed. They thought there is not nothing wrong in using number pressure on the authority to kill someone. They didn't sign to request a new trial. They sign for death.

If you start thinking it is fine to petition to kill A, there is no end to it.

You have to note that no amount of signatures are going to somehow "allow" or "grant" the death penalty, that's not how the system works. And there's no need to vilify this as if signatures can somehow allow for rape or robbery.

Not directly relevant. We are talking about the fact that people action not how the petition is going to be use or not by the authority.

In that regard, all we can hope is that no death penalty will not befall as it will be susceptible to pave the way to the creation a legal precedence in the worst case. And, the effect on people perception of justice could be bad.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Its not a question of what he deserves. Its not a question of how people feel. Its not a question of an eye for an eye. Its a question of what our choices today hold for the future.    

Beg to disagree...if it is proven beyond doubt ( and DNA evidence on both her body anb his car as well as some car camera footage was presented unless Im mistaken ) he did it, I have no sympathy for someone who abducts , rapes and kills a 9 year old schoolgirl walking on the side of the road. Feel free to call me uneducated , for me ( and a minimum 1.3 million others - all uneducated no doubt ) it is a question of precisely of what someone who kills a child in such manner deserves. Why waste millions of taxpayer money to keep him in prison.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

How many for rape ? How many for robbery ? Does it work retroactively ?

ok everybody just imagine it was your 9yr old daughter that was raped and murdered by this scum, would you put your signature on this petition! Im guessing itll be the first one . I support the death penalty but only of the evidence is irrefutable and only for the most serious of crimes as this case.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

 by taking revenge. Life imprisonment is clearly the correct response here.

always spoken by people whos families have never been a victim of premeditated murder and rape.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

So you think it is normal to have 1.34 million people sign a petition to ask for the death of someone. It is what is written.

These people signed a petition seeking the death penalty.

So you're asking me personally? Then I definitely think it's normal. I don't see why it is wrong for people to want someone who did such extremely horrible deeds to be punished as severely as possible. You have a personal distaste of the death penalty. Sure, very well. Those people who signed the petition, does not. There is nothing disallowing people to state their opinions(which is what those signatures amount to) regarding whether someone should be given the death penalty or not.

Note that, again, despite your usage of the words "pressure on the authority", that a petition by gathering signatures will not change how a legal proceeding goes.

Not directly relevant.

Evidently relevant, seeing as how you're concerned that the signatures will somehow pressure the authority.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@wtfjapan

everybody just imagine it was your 9yr old daughter

They didn't sign as the father/mother of the girl. They sign as themselves which are not the mother/father of the girl (minus the real family obviously). Justice doesn't work this way and when talking about sentence choosing to just see one side is kind of limited. If you are directly involved, it is quite understandable you can not take the distance needed, it is why justice is handled by people which are suppose to be able to kept a neutral stance allowing them to receive all the information.

always spoken by people whose families have never been a victim of premeditated murder and rape

You understand there is death penalty opponent among bereaved family ?

PS : in this case the murder was not judged as premeditated

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

But the court did not sentence Shibuya to death as sought by prosecutors, saying the murder was not premeditated.

Would be nice to know how they came to that conclusion. After all, he knew the school and kids well, and seemed to plan it in advance. Didn't the victim also tell classmates she was being followed? At the very least the rape was premeditated, and he clearly would have been found out if he didn't kill her.

Life imprisonment is clearly the correct response here.

The problem is life imprisonment rarely ever gets carried out, and even if it does they are always going to have small moments of happiness that the victim will never have because they are dead.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

If you think the death penalty is wrong tell that to the parents that is what they want.As a parent I would want the same too no even as a parent as a human this kind of monster needs to be put down yesterday....

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

@Rob990

Note that, again, despite your usage of the words "pressure on the authority", that a petition by gathering signatures will not change how a legal proceeding goes.

Do you understand what a petition is ? We are not talking about it efficiency but about what it is.

Except as a joke, I never heard of people signing a petition for the major of your city to make the Earth flat. Because, even if you want the Earth to be flat, that is a useless petition. These people signed this petition because they considered it as a mean a pressure on the authority.

They didn't sign a notice to say they think this guy deserve death sentence. It is a petition seeking the death penalty. They endorsed a request for someone to be killed.

Evidently relevant, seeing as how you're concerned that the signatures will somehow pressure the authority.

I clearly stated that the existence of this petition could "be susceptible to pave the way to the creation a legal precedence in the worst case" if the court were to decide to go for the death penalty. And "the effect on people perception of justice could be bad" if the court were to decide to go for death penalty. That is quite different. And that was after, your post were you talked about system change. So still : "Not directly relevant."

I am more or less even wondering if we are talking to each other. I mean : I am talking about the act of petitioning to seek the death of someone.

If I wanted to talk about death penalty, I will be doing it. And when I want to do it, I do it. I am not saying what I think of it neither asking people to tell what they think of it as it is not directly relevant. I will not say uninteresting thought but it is not like we would be able to gather enough data to make it useful for researcher.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Do you understand what a petition is ?

Sure, a petition is a request. What's your point? My point still stands: People made a request(petition) because they think and believe that this guy deserve the death penalty. And people are free to do so. You're basically suggesting that people should not have the rights to petition for death penalty, is that it? If not, then I have to ask again, what's your point?

You cannot just say "that's beside the point". The petition itself cannot be separated from the fact that it have no legal power whatsoever. You are concerned that, somehow, if the judge decided on giving this man the death penalty, it will make it into a legal precedence for "allowing death penalty by petition". That is a concern that is needless. Legal proceeding does not work that way. If this is in fact not your concern, then indeed, I'm wondering too if we're talking to each other.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Rob990

So you agree that these people are asking for someone to be killed. They are petitioning for it. You think it is normal. I think it is twisted.

You're basically suggesting that people should not have the rights to petition for death penalty, is that it? If not, then I have to ask again, what's your point?

My point is that it is twisted. And I am asking for number. If they think death penalty can be requested by petitioning, I ask how many signature do they think should be needed to have it granted. We already go around lot of the stuff that petition was not. If they see petitioning as legitimate way to overrule the judgement which say life imprisonment, that could apply to anything else.

For the second paragraph : I already replied

I clearly stated that the existence of this petition could "be susceptible to pave the way to the creation a legal precedence in the worst case" if the court were to decide to go for the death penalty. And "the effect on people perception of justice could be bad" if the court were to decide to go for death penalty. That is quite different. And that was after, your post were you talked about system change. So still : "Not directly relevant."

I was being exhaustive by replying to your reference about system change. Sure, I should have ignored it since it is a different matter and trying to cut it short seems to have mislead you.

Personally, I am concerned about the tax rise at the moment and its impact on my daily life and world situation overall, but that has nothing to do with the article. Nevertheless, thanks for asking.

Happy, that we agree on the fact that we are not talking to each other. That will cut things short. Have a good day.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

The defense had argued that the DNA evidence might have been forged or contaminated.

That is a serious claim. Did they give any reasons for it?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Indeed. You said it is twisted. I said it's the people's rights to petition for death penalty.

If they see petitioning as legitimate way to overrule the judgement which say life imprisonment, that could apply to anything else.

You are very concerned about this, about what other people see regarding petitioning. I explained that petition have no legal power, as an emphasis that people are free to do so since it won't change anything in this regard. Why am I explaining that? Because you're so concerned about it creating a legal precedence(your words: "it will be susceptible to pave the way to the creation a legal precedence in the worst case."). Again, it will NOT create a legal precedence because it does not work that way. So yeah, not "out of topic", really.

And one more thing? I'm being civil the entire time here since I see this as a civil discussion. You on the other hand, use demeaning attitude. Just thought you should know in case you don't realize. Have a very wonderful day.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

The defense had argued that the DNA evidence might have been forged or contaminated.

I would not be able to sleep at night if I was part of freeing a child killer with such fabricated arguments. Lawyers should represent the client to get a fair trial and a just outcome, not just try to get him off. I also support the death penalty and think it may be more humane than locking someone up in a cage for 50 years.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Didn't the victim also tell classmates she was being followed?

As I remember it, yes she did. Which makes it sound like this guy who was posted along the route was in two places at once. How was it that the was following her around and standing his post at the same time? Of course, we never have all the details but this stands out to me as a contradiction.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@Rob990

I already stated that I should have ignored your reference about system change since it was not what I was talking about and that I was unable to resume it properly to make it clear. So why are you still bothering ? You go about part of a message which was a response to what you said. There is nothing in my first message to backup your claim that I am concerned about the creation of a legal precedence. As said previously, it was a reply to your message not what I was talking about. Then once more you start talking about the legal value of the petition. It is not what I talking about. I already wrote it was my mistake to stray since it was a different subject altogether.

I did not wrote you were not being civil just that we were not able to communicate. You talk about the legal value of the petition and I am not talking about it.

I didn't write you were not being civil. You have the right to find me demeaning if you want to. If we are talking frankly, I found you being quite impolite. I mean all the inference.

So can we quit it now ?

We are not able to communicate. It is like that. It is not a big deal. None of us is wrong just we do not manage to find a way to reach the same subject. It is like we are on 2 different river and since we do not see the same stuff we can not get the other one and ones action looks strange.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Flute

Indeed. Your way of thought perplexes me. As such, I agree that we are unable to communicate, so quit it is.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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