crime

Bank employee, Tokyo district court clerk held for groping same woman in train

41 Comments

Police in Tokyo said Saturday they have arrested a 24-year-old clerk at the Tokyo District Court and a 39-year-old employee of the Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ on suspicion of molesting a woman in her 20s on the subway.

According to police, the incident occurred at around 8 a.m. on Friday on the subway Tozai line. TV Asahi quoted police as saying the two suspects stood in front and behind the woman and touched her buttocks, breasts, and lower abdomen.

When train arrived at Monzen-nakacho station and the doors opened, a man who had witnessed the incident seized one suspect, while the woman grabbed the other.

Police said the pair have denied the allegations, saying they don't know each other. They were quoted as saying that because the train was packed during the morning rush hour, if there was any contact with the woman, it was unintentional.

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41 Comments
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Various things to comment on this issue. I'm worried at the increasing number of sexual deviants in Japan. And whilst I don't want to point the finger at anybody, I think that some subcultures inside of Japanese society are responsible for these behaviors.

My uttermost support to the woman of this incident, I am a feminist and advocate for the de-sexualization of the image of women.

0 ( +9 / -9 )

I'm worried at the increasing number of sexual deviants in Japan.

And how exactly are you determining that they are increasing? Do you have some numbers somewhere that show this?

2 ( +6 / -4 )

I've been on packed trains during peak hour hundreds of times and it is very difficult to avoid body contact. However, that is not say these goons did not intentionally feel her up. This just shows the need for the 'women only' carriages on the trains. I bet she uses the women only carriage in the future.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I've been on packed trains during peak hour hundreds of times and it is very difficult to avoid body contact.

For this reason, on packed trains I always keep both hands up in the air. One holding a strap or the bar, and the other either holding my phone where I'm reading it, or if I'm not reading my phone, I will keep my hand on my opposite shoulder or something. Somewhere that my hand is visible so that I cannot be falsely accused.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

Good idea to keep both hands in public view!

5 ( +6 / -1 )

I don't believe they intentionally groped her. They lose jobs if convicted. I would just remove their hands if I were her.

-14 ( +4 / -18 )

I would just remove their hands if I were her.

If you have to remove hands from your person, you're being intentionally groped.

10 ( +13 / -3 )

" I would just remove their hands if I were her."

And then the perverts move on to grab their next "accepting" victim. You, tinawatanabe, are part of the problem. Your passive response enables really sick people to think they can get away with simply unacceptable behavior!

(Nice job completely ignoring the third, unrelated, man who "witnessed the event" and then took it upon himself to apprehend one of the perpetrators, by the way. I guess he must have been mistaken, as well?)

0 ( +6 / -6 )

BNlightened

It's not an accepting. It's being very careful accusing someone of groping. It is a serious charge that could destroy someone's life. I'm not having chikan lately anyway, but I only slap their hands off If I'm certain.

They have to check if the witness and the victim know each other.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Intentionally groping or not, this subject will continue to come up because of crowded trains. Many years ago, I was stared down by a young woman who thought I'd possibly groped her. Lucky for me nothing came of it. I suppose it was another guy but what if I was accused? What do we do if accused and are innocent? Best to get to the front of the line and race for a seat I guess.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

If you are accused, guilty or not, run like hell. The all-important conviction rate is nearly 100%.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

It all sounds strange. So one passenger notice one groper and said nothing until the train stopped? And the woman grabbed another? Do the two know each other?

Yes, there are chikan here, but there have also been many cases where victims were framed.

I hope the cops check all possibilities, including if this sudden guardian angel and the woman were friends.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Probably met on some online groping site...damn perverts

1 ( +3 / -2 )

In moments like these I'm glad that no matter how crowded the train is during rush hour, I always have the fortune of "the gaijin perimeter".

10 ( +12 / -2 )

Victims often cannot give adequate descriptions of the gropers, who generally disappear before the incidents are reported.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

In moments like these I'm glad that no matter how crowded the train is during rush hour, I always have the fortune of "the gaijin perimeter".

LOL Amen to that!

Heck, that perimeter sometimes gives me the entire bench on the train. I could probably lay my whole body across it if I wanted to.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

@DaDude

Lay your whole body across the seat and you'll find that your "gaijin perimeter" increases dramatically!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I think in a court it would be almost impossible to convict on this crime because there is so much reasonable doubt considering how packed Tokyo trains are. Some of you say "I keep both hands up" but on many days I carry a heavy briefcase and cannot make it to the seats with shelves above, and sometimes all straps are taken. Literally you may be swaying on one foot with a hand or some other part of your body pressed quite strongly into another guy's rear end, or a sensitive part of a woman. I see it daily.

The other day on a crowded line at around 8 am I heard a woman scream chikan halfway down the train and when it stopped she was crying and grabbing this guy. However, I have no way of knowing what happened or seeing what happened. The tears of a distraught woman, are they enough to prove guilt?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I'm worried at the increasing number of sexual deviants in Japan.

Do you know that there really is an increasing number?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

A good slap across the face or screaming at the one doing it might help just as the police arrest him

0 ( +0 / -0 )

RecklessSep. 28, 2014 - 07:44PM JST

Totally in with Reckless here, do you really think holding your hands up will do you any good? If some girl has singled you out for her blackmailing plot (which I'm not really convinced is common at all), and supposedly, according to the stories, half the train car will mob up on you in no time, no one would notice or care that your hands were "visible" or if you even have arms.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Totally in with Reckless here, do you really think holding your hands up will do you any good?

Yeah, I do. Girl says "Chikan!", and I say "What are you talking about, look at my hands, they're up here and have been here the whole time.

But that all said, this is why I support male-only train cars during rush hour. I'd rather not have to even worry about it.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

the people and media should be neutral on these, stop mentioning companies and names until the suspects are proven guilty,yes maybe it's true that she was groped, but she could also just mistaken the body contacts on a crowded train and it is also possible that she is just lying. Sexual Harrasment accusation is very powerful, once this is accused to a man wether it is true or not the majority will already symphatize the women. I am not taking the sides of the accused men what I am saying is this has to come through a very delicate process of proving wether the accusations are true or not before naming. Remember what happebed to that poor Teacher who was also accused of sexual harrasment few monthas ago and turned out to be false? his life was ruined! we should learn from that.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

It really is about time cctv cameras were put on the ceilings of trains. OK so a lot of the time the trains are too packed to see but i'm sure it would help innocent people and might even deter people from doing it in the first place.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Stop packing trains to give the perverts excuses. How about doubling the length of the trains and double-stopping them, twice at each stop?

Doesn't sound like this incident was accidental.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It must have been obviously intentional enough for a passerby to think "that's not right" and help grab one of the perps.

On crowded trains I often see men keeping both their hands up and visible--as a woman I truly appreciate it but feel bad they have to assume such a position. I do my best to put my backside against a door/wall or if not an option against another woman. I try to worm my way next to other female passages, or make it so my front, which I can easily see, is the only side next to men. Just because etiquette for crowded trains says "get in the train and stay still and be very quiet" doesn't mean you have to stick to those if you're uncomfortable. I say "sumimasen" over and over and squeeze my way to a safe position.

It's just sad both women and innocent men have to alter their behavior for the sake of a few pervs. The scariest thing about train gropers is the deep humiliation and feeling of no escape. I'm glad Japan is doing a lot to raise awareness and crack down on these guys.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It really is about time cctv cameras were put on the ceilings of trains.

It does seem like the thing to do, until you realize that someone somewhere would be looking down at women's cleavage.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Peter St.C Kelly lol that "gaijin Perimeter" thing was a good irony. Thumbs up.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Afaik there is a still valid Law for not boarding a full Train?

So this Woman was careless and the "Incident" was self-inflicted, she should get a Penalty for using a packed Train!

Poor Guys, how do they get back their former Life? I would use a good Lawyer and sue her until Eternity!

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Either they both groped her(which would be sick) or it's a possible blackmail ploy.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

When train arrived at Monzen-nakacho station and the doors opened, a man who had witnessed the incident seized one suspect, while the woman grabbed the other.

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

So, they were caught. /Does not sound innocent.. Two witnesses including victim.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I don't believe they intentionally groped her. They lose jobs if convicted. I would just remove their hands if I were her.

If it was unintentional then why did the eyewitness ALSO feel the need to grab one of the assailants? A bystander isn't going to physically detain someone over unintentional contact.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

tinawatanabe: They have to check if the witness and the victim know each other.

If the witness and victim are colluding, they'd likely not let it get to the police, because at some point the police are going to catch on. Of course, they (scammers) could be stupid. Or lucky several times. Or maybe police don't keep track of and correlate victims / witnesses like they do perpetrators.

noypikantoku: Remember what happebed to that poor Teacher who was also accused of sexual harrasment few monthas ago and turned out to be false? his life was ruined!

If you mean the one the judge let off, from information on other news sites that provided more details it looked to me like he might have done it. Maybe his lawyers were better or more eloquent than the prosecutors. Browsing news sites we only see the bare minimum of details.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

If you have ever been on one of the tuna can trains in Tokyo you know that it is not a very pleasant experience. The rush hour trains are packed to the point you think it might burst going around a curve. I also did as one poster said, kept both hands in the air. But when the trains are packed to the point of critical mass there is really nothing you can do to avoid body contact with people. There is no gaijin barrier. It is at this time we as people must show why we don't consider ourselves animals, by exercising self control. You cannot and should not blame the woman in this case. She was most likely scared stiff when one of the guys started feeling her up. She most likely had no idea who was doing it. The second man seeing her being silently groped and thought she was enjoying it and joined the act. At this point the woman had to have been totally terrified. The witness who grabbed one of the gropers probably did so at the first chance he had. All this is just speculation but closer to the truth than most of the posters here have suggested. I have been on these trains many times and I have been groped, I would like to think it was by a woman but I would not bet on it. Women on these trains are not all scammers, believe it or not the practice is not as common as the posters here would lead you to believe. I have seen men and women have panic attacks on the Yamanote Line, and on a daily basis watched both men and women go to sleep while held vertically by the mass of bodies packed around them. The point of my story is self restraint, people should be able to control themselves. This was to the point where a stranger felt the need to get involved and for a Japanese person to do that it takes quite a bit, normally they won't do it. Sad but true.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

problem is proving guilt/innocence. unless there is physical evidence/video, its all talk and difficult to tell if anyone is lying.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

problem is proving guilt/innocence. unless there is physical evidence/video, its all talk and difficult to tell if anyone is lying.

When this happens in Japan, they default to believing the girl. 'Proving' guilt isn't as hard here as it is in other countries.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"So, they were caught. /Does not sound innocent.. Two witnesses including victim."

That in itself doesn't prove anything, they could be working together to receive compensation.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@iLikeTurtlesSEP. 30, 2014 - 05:35PM JST

"So, they were caught. /Does not sound innocent.. Two witnesses including victim."

That in itself doesn't prove anything, they could be working together to receive compensation.

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

No report the two knew each other,

Compensation by whom???

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

And this is exactly why I think the women who cry chikan falsely should be named, shamed and locked up too - look at all these comments above. No wonder such a high proportion of these crimes are never reported and the pervs continue - the odds are they are going to get away with it. Id be scared to report it too if I was going to be disbelieved, or made to feel it was somehow my fault. A friend of mine recently very luckily managed to escape from an attempted rape. When she reported it, amidst all the fear and trauma, they made her go back to the site and re-enact exactly what happened. How traumatic is that?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

turtle: That in itself doesn't prove anything, they could be working together to receive compensation.

Would be really stupid in that case to let it get to the police station.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I never witnessed a "groping", but there was one perverted incident I saw on the Sagami Line. I was sitting in the end seat, and a High School girl was sitting next to me (no Gaijin perimeter this time). There were no other people sitting near us, but there was an overweight otaku standing a few seats away. I fell asleep, and when I woke up, the guy was standing in front of the HS girl who was next to me (he had moved deliberately for no other reason). She had fallen asleep leaning forward, and her head was conveniently being supported by the man's crotch. He tried to act all innocent and would not look as I stared (for a second). So I bumped the girl with my elbow, and she woke up and moved.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

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