Bar manager arrested over death of customer due to headlock

Must have been a big check.

Sounds more like a rear naked choke than a headlock.

Your final sentence is ambiguous there JT. Who was "He" who went too far? The customer or the manager?

kaminarioyaji can you not read? During police questioning, the 57-year-old bar manager told officers the man had become violent when presented with the check, TBS reported. He was quoted by police as saying that he used too much force and went too far.

Just because he has been arrested does not mean he will be facing jail time. This sounds pretty similar to the Scott Tucker case.

Hope they investigate the size of that bill. If it was excessive, someone is bound to get a little violent. And if they are hitting walls and chairs and not people, you have no business getting them in choke holds.

warallthetime

What kaminarioyaji is saying is that the "he" in "he used too much force and went too far" could be referring to the bar manager or the customer. Of course it was the bar manager that said it, after all the other guy is dead.

so does bouncer and manager same in position now?

so does bouncer and manager same in position now?

Why not?

So the guy gets hits, restrains the customer and is arrested? Self defence. "Went to far"? Considering how fat and out of shape many salarymen men that age are, I'm not surprised. He shouldn't be charged for anything.

Your final sentence is ambiguous there JT. Who was "He" who went too far? The customer or the manager?

kaminarioyaji,

shud be elementary dear watson, the dead CANT talk!

Well let's see. A Japanese DJ got a three-year "suspended" sentence for using a choke hold that did in fact kill an American who had entered the place to complain about the excessive loudness coming from the club (reported in JT a couple years ago). Will be interesting to see how many "suspended" years this manager gets.

so does bouncer and manager same in position now?

Rarely have I seen a bouncer in Japan and have never seen one in an izakaya. Bar fights are not too common in Japan although, this week seems to have been pretty special with two deaths in Tokyo bars. There was the cat fight glassing the other day too. The natives are getting restless!

shud be elementary dear watson, the dead CANT talk!

...but the soon to be dead CAN use too much force and go too far before having to be restrained by the bar owner (who accidently kills the man while restraining him)

just sayin...

What's telling about the "news" story is that JT's ambiguous presentation of the story seems to generate more comment than the story itself :P

He was quoted by police as saying that he used too much force and went too far.

So I guess there is no such thing as self-defense in Japan. THe guy was acting hostile and the bar owner only did what he thought was right. If he would have hurt someone else in the place, the owner would be liable. So what is he supposed to do? Get screwed over because of the actions of some drunk? Remember, if the drunk would have been in an auto accident, the bar owner would also be liable under Japanese law for selling him drinks and not stopping his flow of drinks because he got too drunk.

Sad as this is for someone to die, people need to be held accountable for their own actions. Go out and get drunk, expect something bad to happen to you if you act like an "a**" in public.

A headlock? Not exactly the warm welcome you want when going out for a quiet drink after work...

Who does he think he is. The Federal Reserve?

So I guess there is no such thing as self-defense in Japan.

He was arrested, not convicted.

THe guy was acting hostile and the bar owner only did what he thought was right.

The world would a complete mess if everyone was empowered to just do what they thought was right! That is why we have the law and judges and juries.

Remember, if the drunk would have been in an auto accident, the bar owner would also be liable under Japanese law for selling him drinks and not stopping his flow of drinks because he got too drunk.

Its a good point. Its a stupid law, trying to hold one man responsible for the decisions and actions of another, just for serving him alcohol.

Not a very sound business strategy to kill customers who don't pay.

The world would a complete mess if everyone was empowered to just do what they thought was right! That is why we have the law and judges and juries.

@MustardKing: But before you get to judges and juries, you have to get the police involved. It didn't stat in the article if the man was acting in such a way that he was being a danger to the customers and the bar owner. If he was hostile, I would rather take my chances at constraining him than waithing for him to hurt me and the others in my bar, when I would be held liable for thier injuries as the bar owner.

Also, before this case can be brought to a judge and jury, you have to know who this person was. Did the owner and the patron know each other? Then it would have been a case of tracking him down for the police, which I doubt they probably would have. If they didn't know each other, then what recourse would he have. We have seen how the J-police drop the ball when they have the exact location and description of a perp, so can you imagine what they would do if he said some customer came in and didn't pay the bill with no idea who he was?

Not a very sound business strategy to kill customers who don't pay.

Sounder than killing the ones who do.

Not a very sound business strategy to kill customers who don't pay

I disagree, hasn't this been the policy of organized crime for hundreds of years?!? Word gets around, see how long before another guy tries to skip out on a check in this bar... :p

@Warallthetime.

I can read very well thank you, which is why I can see that the sentence is not clear when referring to "he". I see you can read, but you clearly didn't understand both the ambiguity of the sentence, not even when I pointed it out.

Shall I explain?

"He used too much force and went too far" The barman tells police that the violent customer used too much force and went too far, therefore he had to subdue him. The barman is citing mitigating circumstances in light of the unfortunate death.

"He used to much force and went too far" The barman tells police that he himself used too much force and went too far when subduing the violent customer.

The barman tells police that he himself used too much force and went too far when subduing the violent customer.

See, that right there explains it kaminarioyaji. See, there are some people who cannot fathom a person having the spine and decency to make such an admission. Thus, your second option does not click. That such a person would have what seems to be a pro-war handle is truly no surprise. Its exactly the type of person for whom such an option just would not click, and seem impossible and ridiculous even when you explain it.

Tsk, tsk, yet another alcohol-related incident.

Not a very sound business strategy to kill customers who don't pay.

Sounder than killing the ones who do.

Ha ha ha!

Maybe the izakaya manager might have noticed the intoxication and could have asked the patron to return when he was sober enough to understand the bill? Just take a snap shot and put the picture up with the bill if the customer refused to return. Good policy means no one gets hurt even if the patron had too much to drink?

He killed a man. Yeah, self defense, but it's severe enough to trigger an investigation.

The blood choke that went awry.

Shinjuku is a crap hole, one of the worst areas of Tokyo, so this does not surprise me, may this izakaya Shinjuku killer get the death penalty, sure he went too far, now it is time for the Japanese Justice system to go to far with this animal too! RIP drunk old dude surprised by the bottakuri bill.

Why is it when 2 men in a bar engage in an altercation, and one dies, the other is arrested.

But if 2 women fight in a bar, and one kills the other, there is no arrest made?

Women do get into fights too, and they too get arrested, in this case it was not crazy drunk women, ok??

Pay your bill and if you think it is not right, come back with your lawyer. Now the cops should look into this and if the story doesn’t stand up then we can expect some charges. If not, seems fair to me, don’t be a lout, pay your bill.

Pay your bill and if you think it is not right, come back with your lawyer

Walk out or call the cops. If the clip joint owner touches you, then it's assault.

Pay your bill and if you think it is not right,

May as well just pay the bill and forget about it. Once you pay, that money is gone, and you will just lose even more money for getting a lawyer. Nessie is right.

if the manager had not been in a fight before, its easy to go too far when the adrenalin kicks in.

a business owner has to walk a fine line especially if they have a fixed place of business. if you piss someone off, they can always find you but not necessarily the other way around.

excessive force, takes a lot to choke someone to death. Bar Manager should be jailed and served a full sentence

I agree on excessive force.

But a properly applied headlock by a trained person will soon result in death, as it either crushes the throat or cuts the blood-supply to the Brain.

In short not what you see on TV, Movies and the WWE as those chokes actually protect the throat.

Choke holds cutting off the blood supply to the brain are not fatal if the hold is released as soon as the person falls unconscious. I wonder if the bar owner kept the choke hold applied while rifling through the victim's wallet for the amount due? Something tells me the bill was "paid" before the police arrived.