crime

Ghosn's accused escape plotters face skeptical U.S. judge in extradition fight

26 Comments
By Nate Raymond

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If these two would have a fair fight here in Japan, I’d be all for their extradition. The simple fact is that they will not have a fair fight given they don’t have the right to a lawyer being present during interrogations, interrogations aren’t routinely recorded, detention is relatively indefinite, and the heavy reliance by prosecutors on confessions.

In shirt, Japan’s “justice” system is an utter farce.

21 ( +28 / -7 )

It was foolish to argue that what they did was not technically a crime in Japan. Japan's legal system is different from the U.S. It is based on code, not precedent. A crime is whatever the prosecutors deem to be so, based on their interpretation of relevant codes.

What they should have done is argued that Japan's system of hostage justice is not up to U.S. standards. More than likely what will happen to the Taylors is they'll be locked up until they confess or a trial is concluded (which would be dragged on for many months, possibly years). That alone should have merited some further examination of their case, and possibly reversed the extradition order.

16 ( +21 / -5 )

"isn't a very heavy lift," Talwani said.

"What we have here is set of conduct that is a crime here and looks like is a crime there," she said.

First time that I have heard of a judge issuing statements on a case that hasn't been finalaized.

gary

9 ( +11 / -2 )

Agree with P Smith

8 ( +10 / -2 )

Gary

First time that I have heard of a judge issuing statements on a case that hasn't been finalaized.

rather rum isn't it! but maybe the fact that she's being 'indiscreet', will be sufficient for the Taylors' legal team to take it further.

as an aside, I wonder what's happening with the Kelly 'trial', not read a thing since it started weeks ago......

8 ( +10 / -2 )

only the first sentence above is a quote, something glitchy added the second sentence between my hitting 'post' and it appearing.....

1 ( +2 / -1 )

"But that step, which involves certifying its compliance with obligations to not extradite people to countries where they could face torture, "

Interesting. If the US asked Japan to extradite a black man back to the US, I wonder if Japan should send him back to the US?

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

Very good! Smith said it best! America knows that these men would not be given a fair trial, so why would they send these people to an un-certain future and a DEFINITE long term jail sentence where there isn't a crime to help someone "jump bail"? Good move, Judge Indira Talwani! Now anything more about this story would just be a pathetic attempt to try to save face on a dead case!

1 ( +6 / -5 )

! would think the US would not be quick to ship anyone to Japan AFTER Japans govt colluded to TRICK Kelly to come to Japan, basically kidnapped

Also the way Japan obtains its false confessions can be seen as torture......

6 ( +10 / -4 )

But that step, which involves certifying its compliance with obligations to not extradite people to countries where they could face torture, "isn't a very heavy lift," Talwani said.

I guess that depends on whether you consider endless re-arrest on spurious charges and lack of bail while the government builds a case against it that it should have presented when you were arrested in the first place torture. You can't charge a crime and then go dig up evidence after the fact - so instead, you rely on confessions extorted via...

4 ( +7 / -3 )

People trafficking is a serious crime. Aiding international criminals is a serious crime. They should be in japan in the same place as their godfather.

they are always quoted as Special Forces hero’s. Like they are high and mighty. Special forces are hired killers who murder people for money.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

I do not envy them. They are already presumed guilty here.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

"On September 24, 2013, President Barack Obama nominated Indira Talwani (Indian-American)

" the first Asian Pacific American federal judge " to serve as a United States District Judge of the United States District Court for the District of Massachusetts. They need to change the case to a Mitch McConnell type judge.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

@fuzzylogic,

Judge Allison Burroughs, would show them what time it is.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

They need to change the case to a Mitch McConnell type judge

If Japan were to go the Trump DOJ route, they would just put these guys in extradition limbo like Meng Wanzhou. She was detained in 2018!

4 ( +4 / -0 )

The Taylors should have went to oak ridge tennessee, instead of boston.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

P. SmithToday 06:51 am JST

If these two would have a fair fight here in Japan, I’d be all for their extradition. The simple fact is that they will not have a fair fight given they don’t have the right to a lawyer being present during interrogations, interrogations aren’t routinely recorded, detention is relatively indefinite, and the heavy reliance by prosecutors on confessions.

In shirt, Japan’s “justice” system is an utter farce.

Well said. It's odd that the US govt., which is normally so reluctant to agree to foreign extradition of its citizens, especially ex-military personnel, is countenancing this at all. The alarming shortcomings of the Japanese justice system are well known around the world now, so one cannot help but wonder if some kind of quid pro quo is in play here.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

If they were brought here in Japan, what exactly will they be charged with?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

as an aside, I wonder what's happening with the Kelly 'trial', not read a thing since it started weeks ago......

I'm going borderline off-topic here...

Kelly's trial's main witness is Nissan chief accountant, he'll be responding the defendants questions from next week (10th~)

Kelly's Lawyers are very proficient in accountability and taxes, so we're expecting new developments.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Team Taylor's justification for their motion is now available here:

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/17327441/taylor-v-mcdermott/

It's number 57.

The judge was understandably not amused. If nothing else, she had already dealt with the point concerning Article 103 in the previous order, so her eyeballs must have rolled to see argumentation for it put up again as if nothing had happened. It's res judicata and the attorney should have saved his breath for something else.

Attorney pointed out some purported procedural defects in the preparation of the State's case. The judge is asking for them to be rectified, which seems fair enough.

Referring to Attorney's claims re Japan's justice system:

Anything about bail or confinement are clearly immaterial to this case - no one will let these commandoes out until either they are acquitted (not likely) or have served their sentence.
-6 ( +1 / -7 )

Special forces are hired killers who murder people for money.

Those are mercenaries. Special forces are highly trained members of the military.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

I do not envy them. They are already presumed guilty here.

So smarty, how did he escape from Japan? If you have some special information, you can free the locked up involved participants in turkey who already confessed.

Those are mercenaries. Special forces are highly trained members of the military.

Except they are mercenaries. Both kill for money, but these two are officially not members of USA military.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Ghosn tricked the best minds of Japan. They saw it coming but didn’t have a move. Go after Ghosn, isn’t he the one you want?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Ghosn tricked the best minds of Japan. They saw it coming but didn’t have a move. Go after Ghosn, isn’t he the one you want?

To be fair, Ghosn would still have been in Japan had the judge followed the government's advice and kept Ghosn behind bars. But so many people were saying "Ghosn's a good guy", "He won't escape" ... well, that's what happened.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

They committed the crime in Japan and outside as well. They planned the crime outside and inside Japan. Why is this a question of who has the ball in their court.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

This case is bigger than the Taylor's or Nissan. The Japanese justice system is in the line.

If human right violations, inequality, and false evidence is confirmed... then scaping from Japan won't be a crime.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

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