Death penalty a sticking point in Australia-Japan military agreement

So who is going to flinch?

If Australia is so concerned about the possibility of its defense personnel eventually facing death penalty for crimes they commit in Japan, perhaps it should recommend Australian tourists not to visit Japan.

It's because of the difference between Australia and Japan on moral education at home as well as in society. Since rape and murder are felonies, they shouldn't be treated like misdemeanors. This is the good opportunity for Aussies to learn from Japanese about ethics.

Wow Kitty

What an over generalized and nasty point of view.

Maybe you should step down from your golden throne and I think Japan has really nothing to teach to Australia about morality.

Actually is the other way around.

Since rape and murder are felonies, they shouldn't be treated like misdemeanors. This is the good opportunity for Aussies to learn from Japanese about ethics

I am pretty sure Japan has some of the most lenient rape laws in the world. After all, a Japanese father raped his daughter for 10 years and all the court said was that "she didn't resist him enough" so it isn't considered rape.

As we all know how hard it is to force change in japan, especially from the outside! Impossible.

Just dont rape or murder fellow Aussies!

No worries mate.

sorted.

Lets join forces, we sort of have to.

Kitty745 - It's because of the difference between Australia and Japan on moral education at home as well as in society. Since rape and murder are felonies, they shouldn't be treated like misdemeanors.

So your idea of 'moral education' is to execute someone? Are you serious? What an absolute load of crap! You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Australia has some of the most serious sentences for violent crime in the world. Australia does not support the death penalty and you come up with this load of absolute malarky.

While I don't support the death penalty, but maybe Australia should not have defense personnel who might commit rape or murder. 

This is not about tourists, but a fair warning by Australia to their citizens departing for Japan to not commit rape or murder might be in order if the Australian government has such a low opinion of their citizens.

Japan views Australia as a "quasi-ally,"

that says it all right there

What a load of nonsense. Of the 50 US States, 30 have the death penalty, including the Federal Government and the US Military. Only 20 states have no death penalty. But Australia has no problem with being a US "ally".

The US has had military stationed in Japan for nearly 75 years and no US military personnel has ever received the death penalty, despite a disgraceful abundance of rape and murder convictions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_individuals_executed_by_the_United_States_military

How about teaching your troops not to commit rape and murder?

Sounds to me like Chinese money working hard as usual.

Interesting topic. Let us look at some stats:

Japan has a population of 127m, Australia has population of 25m. Japan rapes per 100,000 was 1, Australia's 28.9. Almost 29 times more than Japan's. Violent crime, Japan's 0.6 per 100,000. Australia's 15, 25x more than Japan's

"Japan has really nothing to teach to Australia about morality. "

Really? You are welcome to rephrase your statement

The are many more reasons why Australia should have issues making bilateral agreements with Japan. For one, Japan continues to be a haven for parental child abductions.

So Aussies feel their military is so full raping murderers that they can't send any to Japan. Wow, the illogical runs deep there.

 It is true Japan has the death penalty. Rapists and killers are commonly hung. But no other nation has the right to comment on Japans policy, which is surely working in deterring these crimes. 

The idea of the death penalty as a deterrent is an old and well-used myth. I'm sure you'd be proud of the fact that Japan has a lower murder rate than the United States- and happy to ignore the fact that states like Texas and Florida apply the death penalty with far greater frequency than Japan. You can't have it both ways.

As for rape, well, as Jetplane pointed out, a Japanese court recently acquitted a father because his daughter apparently didn't protest enough. If you don't see why an official attitude like this might be a little discouraging to rape victims (and thus skew the official figures)- the idea that even a father raping his child is not considered a crime if the victim is not protesting to a satisfactory level- then I don't know what to say. I will also point out that Japan rarely exercises the death penalty for anything other than multiple murders, so I'm not sure how it would deter a husband from raping his wife, for example.

Every nation has the right to comment on Japan's policies, just as Japan comments on the policies of other nations. If Australia does not wish to form military alliances with nations that share its priorities and standards, that is Australia's right.

The alleged figure of Rapes in each country is misleading as Japanese women are far less likely to report a rape knowing they have almost no chance of winning if the case is against a Japanese man.

Should Japan convict and execute an Australian service man or women for rape then the alliance would be over. Since England executed Australian soldiers during the Boar war, no Australian soldier has been executed by an allied nation.

Desertion and the death penalty

According to Section 98 of the Commonwealth Defence Act 1903, no member of the Defence Force shall be sentenced to death by any court martial except for four offences:

mutiny

desertion to the enemy

traitorously delivering up to the enemy any garrison, fortress, post, guard, or ship, vessel, or boat, or aircraft

traitorous correspondence with the enemy.

The death penalty was abolished in 1973 by the Death Penalty Abolition Act; however the Commonwealth Defence Act 1903 clause allowing for the death penalty was only officially superseded two years later by the Defence Force Re-organization Act 1975.

https://www.awm.gov.au/articles/encyclopedia/desertion

Japan should insist that service personnel convicted for rape or murder that would attract a death penalty in Japan, be instead given a life sentence without the right of parole and the sentence to be served in Australia at Australia's expense. No space taken from Japans overcrowded prisons and no expense to Japans taxpayer.

Such a law is much harsher than they would receive in Australia but it should satisfy the "right to lifers" of both countries.

Australia believes it does not have the right to deny life to criminals of any nationality committed in Australia for any offence. Imagine how it feels about other nations killing not just Australian's, but service personnel serving their country.

In addition, the Japanese agreement with the US precludes Japan executing US service personnel, it should be no different for Australia.

@alwaysspeakingwisdom et al,

According to the Japanese government's own stats, 95% of rapes go unreported in Japan. Don't let that stop you're supercilious comments, though.

*your

Simple, sign a “Waiver”, to deploy to Japan, with the stipulation you MAY face the death penalty if you become a mass murderer...otherwise, you’re cool.

I think most military people will go along with that...or you can’t deploy to Japan.

Kitty745Today 07:54 am JST

It's because of the difference between Australia and Japan on moral education at home as well as in society. Since rape and murder are felonies, they shouldn't be treated like misdemeanors. This is the good opportunity for Aussies to learn from Japanese about ethics.

Good point, it makes Australians wonder how Judges make their sentencing decisions in regards to how a murderer can receive such light sentences.

If Australia is so concerned about the possibility of its defense personnel eventually facing death penalty for crimes they commit in Japan, perhaps it should recommend Australian tourists not to visit Japan.

This is a little bit different as tourists are forced to come to Japan. Military personnel are. The US faced this same dilemma, hense the SOFA agreement. Australia may have to do something similar.

As far as I know,no Australian has ever been sentenced to death in Japan. Do the Australian Miltary Forces harbor prospecive murderers and rapists?

Australia really has only one main reason keeping an alliance with the U.S., and forming one with Japan....China.

Australia already has an alliance with the United States which executed 25 people in 2018.

Japan execiuted 15.

Capital punshment is a matter for each indivudual sovereign state under it's own laws to determine. While other nations may object, there is nothing they can do about it. Only a "drongo" would allow such an issue to influence nationaL strategic and defense policy.

Speaking of China;

"China is the world's most active death penalty country; according to Amnesty International, China executes more people than the rest of the world combined per annum. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_by_country

But no other nation has the right to comment on Japans policy, which is surely working in deterring these crimes. 

Actually, we have every right to comment on any other country. Democratic, or otherwise. Especially if it's a country we live in or care for, deeply.

There should be no death penalty in this country, or any other. Barbarism doesn't just end with the criminal act. Vengeance and retribution carried out by a State only continue such savage behavior.

The real fact is that Japan takes violence and rape against women so seriously that these offenses can carry the death penalty. Which is why the incidence is so low...

So why do we repeatedly read about women raped and/or murdered in hotels or their homes, stabbed in the streets and yet nothing seems to be reported about the prosecutions and convictions of these vile pieces of excreta? Instead we have the bizarre case of women being told not to wear glasses at work? Japan's treatment of women is medieval, and so are the cases of men who abuse them.

Japan really has no moral authority over the Aussies.

Death penalty a sticking point in Australia-Japan military agreement

I would say that Japanese law/rule of law overall is a sticking point to any joint venture whether military or business right now.

So why do we repeatedly read about women raped and/or murdered in hotels or their homes, stabbed in the streets and yet nothing seems to be reported about the prosecutions and convictions of these vile pieces of excreta?

Because Japan Today reports more on the crimes than the prosecutions.

What a load of nonsense. Of the 50 US States, 30 have the death penalty, including the Federal Government and the US Military. Only 20 states have no death penalty. But Australia has no problem with being a US "ally".

Now, let’s add a bit of nuance to this Wikipedia sourced info. 21 states and the District of Columbia have no death penalty. Four more states with the death penalty have gubernatorial moratoria on the penalty, which means it is not practiced. That’s a total of 25 state and the District of Columbia that effectively don’t have the realty penalty.

Let’s also be adults and recognize that Australia’s issue is likely not confined to the fact that Japan has the deal that penalty. It likely includes the fact that Japan practices hostage justice and has few to no protections for accused, such as the right to have a lawyer present during questioning.

Never mind all though. Let’s keep it simple so we can slavishly support Japan whilst bashing Australia and throwing in a dig at China for good measure.

Simple solution, similar agreement to the US SOFA agreement. Problem solved.

I guess there's too much history here for it to be acceptable for the Japanese State to be allowed, no matter what, to take an Australian life.

Given the current state of the Legal system here in Japan, I don't blame Australia for looking backwards and saying hold-on a bit. Albeit not the death sentence, just look what goes on in Japanese Detention centers and even the Ghosn affaire.... not exemplary of a fair an unbiased Legal system that's independent of coercion.

The death penalty needs to be abolished in Japan.

Sounds like the Japanese and the Aussies are making a SOFA agreement since its about their military personnel not tourists. I see nothing wrong with the death penalty clause. As far as i know, the US/Jpn SOFA allows for it but we also have the death penalty so business as usuall.

Psyops

Sounds like the Japanese and the Aussies are making a SOFA agreement

Why a SOFA agreement, aren't US troops in Japan enough for Japan and Japan needs Aussie troops to defend itself too?

Or is Japan contemplating basing SDF troops in Australia? But why?

OMG...YES; this is all about HASHing out a “SOFA Agreement”, hence, AussieLand Shirts “Object” to he Death Penalty, yes, as someone has already noted;

You are likely ALREADY subject to the Death Penalty, being in a brach of military...you’re in the military, not Kansas.

Why a SOFA agreement, aren't US troops in Japan enough for Japan and Japan needs Aussie troops to defend itself too?

Or is Japan contemplating basing SDF troops in Australia? But why?

It's explained right here in the article. We don't need any conspiracies to explain it.

"the agreement would see the two countries conduct joint military exercises and other activities by their defense forces when visiting each other's countries."

@JJ JetplaneDec. 18 08:12 am JST

I am pretty sure Japan has some of the most lenient rape laws in the world. After all, a Japanese father raped his daughter for 10 years and all the court said was that "she didn't resist him enough" so it isn't considered rape.

Since the question today is the risk Australian personnel would be found guilty of rape and executed, this kind of principled handling of the rape charge can only be seen as advantageous to Japan and disadvantageous to Australia's claim. No fringe zones. Hit the center or you are innocent makes for excellent certainty of law.