crime

Documents reveal chaotic U.S. military sex-abuse record in Japan

109 Comments
By YURI KAGEYAMA and RICHARD LARDNER

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109 Comments
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I'm sure this article will do nothing to inflame the already anti-US military sentiment in Okinawa.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

Just get these guys OUT of Okinawa,

Okinawans clearly do not want US bases and have put up with this for far too long.

They aren’t protecting anyone from anything - just the opposite, in fact.

They are holding down the economy, sitting on 20 percent of the land, much of which is ideally situated for peaceful redevelopment.

They should give up the idea of building a superbase in the north, close Kadena, Futenma and the 30 or so other little bases and give Okinawa back to the Okinawans.

Bye bye!

6 ( +25 / -19 )

Sadly there still exists a 'good old boys network' that still condones sexual abuse of women in the U.S. military. This is one of the reasons why opening combat roles to women is a disaster in the making. Unless the American military changes that culture of misogyny, nothing will ever change.

6 ( +12 / -6 )

What exactly is the point of this very lengthy article?

1 ( +13 / -12 )

The same thing happens at all US military bases.

But the documents show that, as it is at U.S. bases everywhere, U.S. service members who commit sexual assaults are most likely to abuse comrades-in-arms.

It literally goes with the territory.

The NCIS provided more than 600 case files - seven years of detailed but heavily redacted executive summaries of sex-crime reports. The four military branches provided an additional 400 files covering narrower time frames.

Put those documents through The Declassification Engine.

In the parlance of the day, the project is tackling these documents with the help of Big Data. If you put enough of this declassified information in a single place, Connelly believes, you can begin to predict what government information is still being withheld. Many documents are declassified only with certain text redacted, for instance, and Connelly aims to develop tools that predict what text has been removed.

http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/05/the-declassification-engine/

5 ( +6 / -1 )

High abuse numbers in the military may not indicate a huge problem within the ranks, but instead represent the benefits of taking an unflinching look at the problem. Environmental factors unique to military life (frequent PCS moves, field training and deployment, etc) may be contributing factors for the high abuse figures attributed to the military.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

The Air Force it is then

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

Drinkers take note: It is often viewed as culpable for having been weak and vulnerable. Bartender ! I'll have another and say this Glad i never joined an army... always... always a Maverick.... still am ...cheers ..bottoms up and all that codswallop ...

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

I don't condone the rapes of the US military in any way (I actually think they should be more severely punished than they are, but that's another topic). What Japan had during WWII was an institutionalized situation approved of from on high, not just some incidents (which I admit again is bad enough). There are legitimate issues in Okinawa but this is not a good comparison. Well this may be thumbed down by some, but I can't let this "everyone was doing it so it wasn't so bad" view go unanswered.

-3 ( +9 / -12 )

What exactly is the point of this very lengthy article?

That people read it and be informed about the sexual attacks which continue unchecked and are seemingly condoned by swathes of higher-ups in the US military.

Or you could just consider the whole topic of personal safety unimportant, I suppose.

11 ( +18 / -7 )

Only a scumbag will rape or disrespect a woman. Fortunately scumbags are a minority. Date rape, abduction rape are the same. Problem is the light sentences or lack of penalty given. Make it a high risk penalty and the vast majority of scumbags will be reduced.

10 ( +13 / -3 )

—Victims increasingly declined to cooperate with investigators or recanted — a sign they may have been losing confidence in the system.

Or that they were false accusations. Alas, that doesn't fit the narrative though, now does it?

-9 ( +6 / -15 )

That was just a tip of the iceberg!

5 ( +5 / -0 )

@bertie

Just get these guys OUT of Okinawa,

Then who will protect Jaapan? It's NOT going to happen.

Okinawans clearly do not want US bases and have put up with this for far too long.

Too bad. We've been through this before. According to the SOFA agreement that won't change likely anytime soon. Not going to happen.

They aren’t protecting anyone from anything - just the opposite, in fact.

The majority are, don't paint a broad brush, HOWEVER, I will submit to you there is a cultural an d social problem and I think both sides need to come out, clear the air, from the US side, teach these men about the culture and the ways of the people and do it weekly and have a zero tolerance policy. If any of the servicemen ever get caught doing ANYTHING out of line, instant demotion, discharged or whatever the military can do that fits the crime. From the Okinawans, the same. They need to understand how the military servicemen operate, they need to understand and know the differences socially how men and women act and perceive body language. For one thing as an example, if a guy is in a club and he asks a girl for her number or to go out with him for a meal, then the girl should clearly explain her intentions, so that the guy doesn't get the wrong perception. But if the guy doesn't get ANY kind of indication, it can spiral put of control quickly what the girl wanted to convey and what the guy perceived. It's NOT a one-sided issue. Yes, the Americans are the guest! I get it! but I think being in being fair, both sides didn't do enough to bring social and cultural awareness to this serious issue. You just at ANY given time want to bash the US, we know that, but you fail to realize, it's a two way streak. There is a huge communication problem going on between both sides and it's astounding that both sides don't come out and fix it. It's easy to throw out the blame, but to work at building a cohesive relationship takes some time and commitment.

They are holding down the economy, sitting on 20 percent of the land, much of which is ideally situated for peaceful redevelopment.

They are NOT holding down the land. Oh, and even if they didn't, where is Okinawa going to get the money to build and build what by the way....

They should give up the idea of building a superbase in the north, close Kadena, Futenma and the 30 or so other little bases and give Okinawa back to the Okinawans.

The Okinawans have Okinawa, they just have to share it until further notice.

Bye bye!

-10 ( +10 / -20 )

Keep that curfew. Curtail their freedom. Rapists need to be dealt with in the most severest of manners. The most disgusting pile of scum needs washing away.

12 ( +15 / -3 )

bass4funk

Then who will protect Jaapan? It's NOT going to happen.

Well first off, how would those bases protect Japan? And second, even if it did, why should Okinawa (yet again) become the soil for a battleground? Are you saying, that if a war does start, then yet again, Okinawa should bear the burden?

-3 ( +7 / -10 )

@YongYang - I agree, keep the curfew, that helps keep the economy in bases doing great! Since the implementation of the curfew a large number of service members and their families spend on base and less out in town. Its interesting to stores (not just bars) outside of base dying off and hoping americans come in to spend.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

From the Okinawans, the same. They need to understand how the military servicemen operate, they need to understand and know the differences socially how men and women act and perceive body language.

Why should Okinawans change their social mores to accommodate a bunch of randy out-of-control servicemen? It is the military who are the (for the most part unwanted) guests in Okinawa - they should learn how to behave themselves in social situations in Okinawa, or stay home.

as an example, if a guy is in a club and he asks a girl for her number or to go out with him for a meal, then the girl should clearly explain her intentions, so that the guy doesn't get the wrong perception. But if the guy doesn't get ANY kind of indication, it can spiral put of control quickly what the girl wanted to convey and what the guy perceived.

Translation - it's the girls' fault for leading on the poor innocent service men, after all, what are they doing in a club in the first place if they aren't asking for it?

to work at building a cohesive relationship takes some time and commitment.

The US military has had going on for 70 years to teach its soldiers some basic manners. How much more time is needed?

16 ( +21 / -5 )

It seems somehow paradoxical that we would be asking decency from armed forces. Not that they never defend right, but, mostly, only carry out crime by government.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

What exactly is the point of this very lengthy article?

Good point. This article was in the Navy Times and other US publications. What it misses is that inthe event that it is a case against a Japanese national, the perp will be turned over to the Japanese authorities, and as a consequence of one persons bad actions, the rest of the US military personnel have their liberties restricted. May I remind the writer of this article, that the military in Japan is under a curfew still as a result of the incident that occured a few years back in Okinawa involving Navy Reservist (they were not stationed in Japan only visiting) who are now in a Japanese jail.

This type of punishment for those who are not involved does not occur back in the USA. Also, from a recent study, there has been a rise in "same sex" sexual assualts in the military. But that never really seems to get reported much, and if it does, it is downplayed.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Being a Marine of 10 years and stationed once at a base in Okinawa I had to set a few Marines straight in a matter of 'just because American Marines took the island during WWII does not give you the right to say that you own it and the people of it'.

This got to a boil over one night off base when 3 Marines decided they were going to change my mind on that subject. They forgot that you do not mess with a 'Force Recon Black Ops Marine of 8 years'.

8 ( +12 / -4 )

Unfortunately there are a bunch of aggressive sexual predators in the Military.... they definitely need a judicial system that is fair but strict across the board. I do however applaud the US Military in that they publish their "dirty laundry", in an effort to confront it. I doubt very much American soldiers have a monopoly on such predators but yet I cannot remember reading an article such as this published by another Nation.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

From the Okinawans, the same. They need to understand how the military servicemen operate, they need to understand and know the differences socially how men and women act and perceive body language.

Why do they need to? It's their land, they belong there. The Americans are at best guests, and worst, invaders. It's up to them to respect the law of the land, not up to the locals to respect the law of the guests.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

It is incredibly sad the abuse that Okinawan women and girls have been subjected to - and the complicit US army'e response has until recently been pretty poor.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

they definitely need a judicial system that is fair but strict across the board.

There already is one, it's called the law of the land and it works (not perfectly but) fine for everyone else. Why should anyone committing a sex crime get special treatment just because s/he wears a uniform?

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Am this happens everyday in the general population all over Japan and throught the world.. But hey let's just put the spotlight on the US military.. What would the Okinawan economy do without the US there.. Actually wish they would get out of Okinawa though and that the US Japan relationship weakens..Then we would not have to defend Japans tiny rocks they call an island against China.. @bertie - do u ever shut up?really hate Americans don't u?

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

I wish those yanks would get out , you always hear about this kind of thing from them. I am sick of them.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

Well, you sir, your opinion is against the presence of US bases in Japan, and at the same time against the creation (legalization) of the Japanese Military Forces.

In those two themes only your opinion is, I am afraid, splattered all over the place with no real reasoning.... unless of course you are defending a third party.

And no need to give me a bad rating, I am just giving my mind here, I have not insulted you in any way.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Daniel Neagari

Well, you sir, your opinion is against the presence of US bases in Japan, and at the same time against the creation (legalization) of the Japanese Military Forces.

Yeah... except that I never said anything about the Japanese military.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

In here no, you haven't I know. But I know your stance... or am I wrong?

If I am... I do apologize.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Actually I have posted before that I am for revising the Article 9 in the constitution.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Well in that case, my apologies.

Seems, I jumped in to conclusions, I am sorry.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The Okinawan Economy would be fine without the U.S. Military. They don't spend that much money off base because they have a PX, Commissary, Gas Station, Clubs, Movie Theaters, Golf Courses, Bowling Centers, Car Repair places and many other facilities on the base. The number of Okinawan people working on these bases have been estimated at around 8,000 which is not a lot considering the amount of land these bases occupy. In fact there are probably just as many if not more U.S. civilians and military dependents who work on these bases as Okinawan people themselves. So in reality the U.S. military benefits economically just as much if not more than the Okinawan people from these bases.

It would be better for the Okinawan economy if the JSDF took over the bases from the U.S. because they don't require as much land space as the U.S. military. They don't need to have golf courses inside the base, they don't need to have tennis courts and movie theaters and bowling centers and clubs, they would do all those things on the local economy. And most of all they don't need dependent schools and family housing which take up a lot of the land space used by the bases on Okinawa. The JSDF would spend a lot more money on the local economy and be able to return the land that the U.S. uses for Family Housing and leisure facilities back to civilian use. The JSDF families would live on the local economy, pay taxes and send their children to local schools which would be great for local communities.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Bush lowered the educational threshold for the forces after the invasion of Iraq, not enough smart people were enlisting( not surprising). With lower standards you get lower quality and that has been born out in the figures.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

The records, obtained by The Associated Press through the Freedom of Information Act, open a rare window into the opaque world of military justice and show a pattern of random and inconsistent judgments.

... the two cases they compare are a heterosexual rape and a homosexual rape. The heterosexual rape was acceptable in the macho culture, the homosexual one wasn't. The pattern of homophobia should be obvious.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

What exactly is the point of this very lengthy article?

To help Yankee Go Home movement in Okinawa so that Japan Inc can make their factories in Okinawa instead of Indonesia, etc.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

I'm not sure why all the comments here are about how the Military presence here on Okinawa hurts the economy.. Okinawans hold 90% of the jobs at such places as the Base Exchanges, the shopettes, commissary. Not to mention the locals handle the on base housing Maintainence . If these people didn't have these jobs just where would you all suggest they work? Not sure how many people commenting actually currently live on the island but there aren't a lot of Help Wanted signs posted off base. They have jobs that they might not otherwise have through the U.S . Military.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Push more young women into close proximity with young men, add in the stress and transient lifestyle of military life and you get more opportunities for this kind of misconduct. It isn't an excuse for criminal behavior it is merely acknowledging basic human nature. Yes, young military people should control their sexual aggression but the modern military increases the likelihood for problems like by their inane PC view of human behavior. Instead of policies to reduce the chances for misconduct, the US military is doing the exact opposite.

2 ( +4 / -1 )

Time has long pass for the U.S. to be on Okinawa. As a taxpayer, I'm sick and tired of nations thumbing their nose at America with one hand while holding out the other wanting financial support from us. Our military could be put to better use defending our northern and southern borders from illegals entering my country.

I've long advocated that compulsory military service be a condition of any visa status granted to foreigners (male or female) residing in that country. Japan in general and those foreigners who choose to live there in particular needs to fend for itself.

RR

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

I'm not sure why all the comments here are about how the Military presence here on Okinawa hurts the economy.. Okinawans hold 90% of the jobs at such places as the Base Exchanges, the shopettes, commissary. Not to mention the locals handle the on base housing Maintainence . If these people didn't have these jobs just where would you all suggest they work? Not sure how many people commenting actually currently live on the island but there aren't a lot of Help Wanted signs posted off base. They have jobs that they might not otherwise have through the U.S . Military.

This is akin to the Japanese argument that the Koreans should be thankful for Japanese rule, because Japan modernized the country. Or if you want to look at another argument, that black Americans should be thankful for slavery, because otherwise they'd still be living in Africa.

If the military wasn't in Okinawa, the people would find other ways of making money and living, just like everywhere else in the country that doesn't have a military base supporting the local economy. Sure there would be a period of adjustment, but to think that there wouldn't be an adjustment is ridiculous.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Semper Fi indeed. Takes the buddy syatem to whole new level.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Dawn Stackalis: I live in Naha on what used to be a U.S Army Family Housing Base and I have been inside all of the bases on Okinawa. These bases are just too large for what is actually needed for the defense of Japan. They are basically U.S. cities located on Okinawa with thousands of Centrally Air Conditioned Homes, 2 High Schools, 2 Jr. High Schools, 6 Elementary Schools, 4 Golf Courses, 5 Private Beaches and more tennis courts than you can count. The Japanese people who work on base are paid for by the Japanese Taxpayers. AAFES is a business, they run the PX, the shopettes, food courts etc. They generate a lot of revenue on Okinawa but the Japanese Taxpayers subsidize them by paying for their local employees and utilities. The same for MWR and MCCS. That would be like the Japanese Taxpayers paying for the employees and utilities for McDonald Japan. The U.S. Military have the best deal on Okinawa than any other place in the world. I am not for the removal of all U.S. bases but the this is not the 1960's and the Okinawan people need some breathing room and a better quality of life.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

@atrueokinawan,

Thanks for the information.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Perhaps the US could start denying any attacks are happening? In their newspapers and text books at school the US government could just write out any references to the attacks on Okinawan women and start an internet campaign to obfuscate it? maybe members of congress could start justifying the attacks as ' pretty natural occurrences" ... Or if that irony is too much on the Japanese people - perhaps they could continue to apologise wholeheartedly and make as much restitution as they can. written with a degree of sarcasm

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

This bears out what the article is saying:

http://okinawa.craigslist.jp/search/cas?zoomToPosting=&catAbb=cas&query=m4m&minAsk=&maxAsk=&excats=

Get them OFF the island.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@eiji

Well first off, how would those bases protect Japan? And second, even if it did, why should Okinawa (yet again) become the soil for a battleground? Are you saying, that if a war does start, then yet again, Okinawa should bear the burden?

No, but from a stratigic military point, Okinawa is the IDEAL place for the US to stage a battle or set up an attack or counter attack. So yes, it is more about practicality rather than being a burden.

@cleo

Why should Okinawans change their social mores to accommodate a bunch of randy out-of-control servicemen? It is the military who are the (for the most part unwanted) guests in Okinawa - they should learn how to behave themselves in social situations in Okinawa, or stay home.

Why? Because they have to, if you want me to put it bluntly. Now having cleared that up, I already explained my feelings on the matter. It takes two to tango! Okinawans have not gone out of their way to bring understandings and learn about the military and about their culture as well. It goes both ways and quite frankly, both did a very poor at trying to understand one another.

Translation - it's the girls' fault for leading on the poor innocent service men, after all, what are they doing in a club in the first place if they aren't asking for it?

I'm not even going to get baited into that with you, because there are so many ways as to how that scenario can play out and thinking that EVERY service man is a raping homicidal maniac is just not only insulting, but it seems like that you and others here think that ALL military are bad and that's NOT even close. Believe me, I have absolutely NO sympathy for any serviceman that does a violent crime towards another. If they are caught, they should suffer the consequences. But let's not make this a one-sided witch hunt.

The US military has had going on for 70 years to teach its soldiers some basic manners. How much more time is needed?

Yes, I agree and the same goes for the Okinawans to reach out, so both failed in this regard, miserably!

@strangerland

Why do they need to? It's their land, they belong there. The Americans are at best guests, and worst, invaders. It's up to them to respect the law of the land, not up to the locals to respect the law of the guests.

It's their land and how did Americans wind up there in the first place? They didn't just decide to set up their bases there for the fun of it. Yes, they are guests, but that doesn't mean, the host can treat the guests like trash either, both need mutual respect.

@bertie

Never going to happen and most definitely as long as China is on the warpath. In the mean time, everyone should come together and seriously talk very deeply and get everything out in the open and try to fix this and learn to live with one another, because if anyone thinks the military is going to get out is sadly living in an alternate universe.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

Sponsors of my (our) little league team, the Yokosuka Dodgers, USNH (US Naval Hospital), in the news.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Maybe Hashimoto can pipe in and talk about how it's "necessary", Tamogami can chirp in and say it never happened, and Abe can chime in and say how the military was never involved. At least with the case of US troops people are often imprisoned for their crimes, and rightly so. That it is on occasion glossed over and charges lessened is deplorable.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

atrueokinawan: I don't normally respond to the comments of others, but your claim that the "The Japanese people who work on base are paid for by the Japanese taxpayers" is not factually correct, sorry to say. You should know full-well that all "subsidies" paid by the Japanese taxpayer towards the defensive US Military presence put together barely amount to a fraction of the total cost of what you claim are "too large" facilities, to say nothing of the true cost of the weaponry, surveillance, training, employment and community outreach projects ongoing for these past 60 years.

You should know that in 2012 the total Japanese taxpayer contributions to the US Military presence in Japan (not only in Okinawa) amounted to just Y186.7 Billion Japanese Yen, (or around $1.86 Billion US Dollars.) I'm sure even a staunchly anti-base Okinawan such as yourself would realize that the total "Omoiyari Yosan" budget "subsidized" by the Japanese taxpayer to the US military each year amounts to a tiny fraction of the overall spending these bases annually do. I'm sure your not claiming that "utilities bills" equate the rest of the spending the US does on Japan's behalf now, do you? As for the Army and Air Force Exchange Services, yes it is a business, but "the (AAFES) Exchange funds 98% of its operating budget, including civilian employee salaries, inventory investments, utilities and capital investments for equipment, vehicles and facilities, from the sale of merchandise, food and services to customers." In other words, the (American military) customers supply the (Okinawan and Japanese) with their salaries, not the Japanese (unless again, you wish to count that remaining 2% as your "subsidy.")

So to claim that US spending in Okinawa and throughout Japan does not in effect give tens of thousands of Japanese citizens their livelihood either directly or indirectly, or to claim that it's the Japanese taxpayers who are really paying for all these generated jobs is simply factually incorrect.

Even with the plan to relocate US bases within Okinawa to new areas, the Japanese government plans to contribute less than 35% of the total cost. How much of this 35% actually comes from Okinawan taxpayers (one of the poorest tax bases of all Japanese prefectures), and who actually "subsidizes" the rest? Also, you must not forget that THANKS TO the American subsidizing of Japan's military spending (not the other way around), Japan is thus able to limit its overall defense spending to 1% of GDP or less each year (the lowest military spending of an industrialized nation in the world as a % of its GDP.) Your government meanwhile chooses to instead spend these saved resources on its people, government services and public works projects. I'd like to hear what you think would happen to defense spending in Japan were the US to withdraw from the country-would it decrease?! Where then would you come up with the gap in social spending you presently enjoy? And do you really think the Japanese military wouldn't simply fill in the military vacuum in Okinawa were the US to actually evacuate?

Germany spends 40% more of its GDP on military spending than Japan (Germany also has US bases, remember.) France? 130% more. Even our neighbor South Korea, with its American bases and objections of its own, still manages to spend a whopping 170% more of its GDP on its military than does Japan. One can only conclude that what Japan "subsidizes" to the US for its military protection pales in comparison to what it saves/receives.

At any rate, this article is actually about sex abuse INSIDE the US military and the military's response to an INTERNAL problem; in no example brought up here are there any Okinawan civilians involved (not that that doesn't happen as well.) So keeping on the topic of this article, I say: No tolerance! Thoroughly investigate-prosecute-publicize and punish the transgressors! No excuses! Thanks for your time.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Young guys away from home, with a very poor education... I'm not surprised about the amount of sexual abuse being reported, I'm sure there's a lot more that doesn't.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

It takes two to tango!

Sorry, but when the topic is rape/sexual assault, it's pretty obvious that one of the 'dancers' isn't into tango.

Okinawans have not gone out of their way to bring understandings and learn about the military and about their culture as well.

It's their home. The 'guests' need to learn how to behave.

there are so many ways as to how that scenario can play out

Isn't that the problem? There should be only two ways it can play out; She says No, He goes back to base disappointed/She says Yes, He isn't disappointed. How else would you have it play out?

they are guests, but that doesn't mean, the host can treat the guests like trash either

Asking that they 'Please stop raping our women' is not treating the 'guests' like trash.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Sign this petition!

Cancel the plan to build a new U.S. military base in Henoko, Okinawa, and return Futenma to the people of Okinawa immediately

https://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/president-barack-obama-cancel-the-plan-to-build-a-new-u-s-military-base-in-henoko-okinawa-and-return-futenma-to-the-people-of-okinawa-immediately

Signed by people like Noam Choasky, Oliver Stone and Karel van Wolferen.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Back to apologize for getting nostalgic. I forgot what I was reading. Much too serious to get off track.

I'm A Monkey. I'm sorry.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

BNlightened: Thank you very much for your response. It is nice to hear from someone who posts informatively instead of emotionally. I am not staunchly anti-base in fact I realize that some bases on Okinawa are a necessity. But I also believe that the U.S. bases are too large for what is really needed. I know that AAFES funds it's budget and contributes a lot of money to on-base programs. But it is still a business that generates a ton of money on Okinawa and should be able to pay for it's employees. The Japanese taxpayers should not be paying IHA employee salaries only MLC. The Japanese taxpayers have also built million dollar clubs on Camp Kinser, Camp Hansen and Camp Schwab. These are businesses that make MCCS a lot of money. The Japanese taxpayers have built golf courses and other leisure facilities, dependent housing and dependent schools. The Japanese taxpayers should only be paying for defense related facilities not leisure facilities and dependent related facilities. If the U.S. military wants to have leisure facilities and dependents on Okinawa they should pay for them. I know there are people on Okinawa who depend on the bases for their livelihood and there are people who have a lot of money because of the bases but the bases shouldn't be here to provide economic benefits they should be here to provide defense. If they are no longer needed for defense purposes they should be gone and not kept around because some people might lose jobs. They cost both the American and Japanese taxpayers too much for that.

I have no problem with the JSDF taking over the U.S. bases because they don't require the golf courses, Family Housing and dependent schools that the U.S. does so they would be able to return more than half the land and still maintain the military capability. Have you ever heard of JSDF Naha Air Base? Up until shortly after reversion, it was a U.S Air Base and was twice the size it is now, When the JSDF took over, they returned over half the land that was used by the U.S. to civilian use and now it is a large residential and commercial area. They were able to do that because they don't need the Military Family Housing that takes up a lot of the space that the U.S. occupies now. I apologize to everyone for the long post. I enjoy a realistic debate on the base issue and think they are more needed than "the all the bases must go or all the bases must stay" argument.

I

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Put bromide in their coffee - that'll soon stop these jarrheads and whatever from being constantly horny. Either that or get hookers from America flown in for the weekends.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Sorry, but when the topic is rape/sexual assault, it's pretty obvious that one of the 'dancers' isn't into tango

You know full well, I wasn't referring to that and you know that!

It's their home. The 'guests' need to learn how to behave.

Yes, and the US home for the next foreseeable future. How long has it been? 70 years? A bit longer than being a guest, I would say and the hosts need to be better hosts as well. It goes both ways.

Asking that they 'Please stop raping our women' is not treating the 'guests' like trash.

Ok, I know a few people that are stationed in Okinawa, so you are insinuating that ALL of them are rapists? Most of the men don't go around raping women! You are so far off. Once again, you are missing the point! If anyone is caught raping someone, lock them up, I agree, but to label every single man that's in Okinawa is just over the top insulting! If you don't like the military, fine. I have no problem with that, but to pigeonhole every US servicemen is just absolutely atrocious!

@eiji

Signed by people like Noam Choasky, Oliver Stone and Karel van Wolferen.

Credibility of the petition was shot once you showed the names of those moonbats. Good luck with that.

-10 ( +0 / -10 )

bass4funk

Credibility of the petition was shot once you showed the names of those moonbats. Good luck with that.

lol, do you even know who Karel van Wolferen is? Geeze... There are 100 others.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The sexual assault problem in the military is not an education problem but a people problem. The military has been having training programs on these problems for a long time and they still happen. The only way to try and prevent these incidents is to hand out stiff prison sentences and let people know they will not go unpunished when they commit these crimes.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

@eiji

lol, do you even know who Karel van Wolferen is? Geeze... There are 100 others.

I sure do and as I said, waste of time.

@atrueokinawan

I agree.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

@Frungy That's exactly what I was thinking... The difference in those two punishments was absolutely shocking!

2 ( +2 / -0 )

America saved Asia from WW2 Japan and from China

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

I am writing old survey by medias. No data if anyone did similar survey.

n May 2010, a survey of the Okinawan people conducted by Mainichi shimbun and Ryukyu shimpo, found that

71% of Okinawans surveyed thought that the presence of Marines on Okinawa was not necessary.

15% said it was necessary.

Asked what they thought about 74% of United States Forces Japan bases being concentrated in Okinawa,

50% said that the number should be reduced,

41% said that the bases should be removed.

Asked about the US-Japan security treaty,

55% said it should be changed to a peace treaty,

14% said it should be abolished

and 7% said it should be maintained.

Many of the bases, such as Yokota Air Base, Naval Air Facility Atsugi and Kadena Air Base, are located in the vicinity of residential districts, and local citizens have complained about excessive aircraft noise as well as various crimes perpetrated against local civilians.

From 1952 to 2004, there were approximately 200,000 accidents and crimes involving U.S. troops, in which 1,076 Japanese civilians died. Over 90% of the incidents were vehicle or traffic related. According to the U.S.-Japan Status of Forces Agreement U.S. personnel have partial extraterritorial right, so in most cases suspects were not arrested by Japanese authorities.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

You know, reading this article, then reading some of your guys' posts, makes me laugh. All of you talk about how this is your country and Americans invade your country, blah blah.

I agree Rape is Bad, there is a few people who do it, yeah, but for you all to comment as if almost every service member is a predator or immoral is pathetic. It is about the same as your society. It's just intensified because a foreigner has done it.

Speaking of the issue of foreigners, how can you expect foreigners to abide by your laws, and expect them to be respectful, when about 60% of comments on here are racist, some being low-key racist, and others calling Americans 'Yanks.'

I don't condone rape, and I hate serving (I'm in the Military) with idiots who do such things, and I hope they get charged to the fullest of the law (Actual American Law, not Military Law), but, I detest impotent comments especially racism.

I know Japan is highly Xenophobic, but, wow seriously, does racism get you far? No, all it does is make you mad, and make me want to respect you less.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

@bleuren

You hit the nail on every point and summed it all up, couldn't have agreed with you more. You completely and rationally understand the issue. No blinders. It's just a good reason to get the same old usual jealous American bashers on JT something to do.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

@Bleuren

You seriously have a problem with 'Yank'?

That's what you are, my friend, sure as I'm a "Limey"....

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@blueren - there are only 2-3 regular posters on here who are Japanese. Nearly everyone here is non-Japanese.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

You know full well, I wasn't referring to that and you know that!

Wasn't referring to what? The fact that in a rape situation, at least one 'participant' doesn't want to participate? I know you weren't talking literally about dancing. Some of us can handle metaphors without foaming at the mouth, maybe you should practice.

A bit longer than being a guest, I would say and the hosts need to be better hosts as well. It goes both ways.

In what way would you want the Okinawans to be 'better hosts'? By not complaining so much when their women get raped? By not letting women who don't want to be raped go to clubs, or walk down the street without a chaperone? Would you prefer they wore burkhas so that red-blooded 'men' don't 'get the wrong perception'? What exactly is your gripe with the way the 'hosts' behave?

you are insinuating that ALL of them are rapists

Were did I say or insinuate 'all'? There are obviously enough for it to be a problem, otherwise there wouldn't still be a curfew in place.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Wasn't referring to what? The fact that in a rape situation, at least one 'participant' doesn't want to participate? I know you weren't talking literally about dancing. Some of us can handle metaphors without foaming at the mouth, maybe you should practice.

And again, here we go with the typical ad hom attacks. I already elaborated the point, if you don't understand, what else can I say?

In what way would you want the Okinawans to be 'better hosts'? By not complaining so much when their women get raped? By not letting women who don't want to be raped go to clubs, or walk down the street without a chaperone? Would you prefer they wore burkhas so that red-blooded 'men' don't 'get the wrong perception'? What exactly is your gripe with the way the 'hosts' behave?

For starters, How about maybe some of the girls leading the guys on, for some reason that's not brought up and please don't insinuate it doesn't happen, it's not an excuse for a man to do anything, but if you think that that doesn't happen, then you are really living in the land of make believe. I have a question, so when do some of these women take any accountability for what's happening here. So you can tell me unequivocally without a doubt that in every single case, the girl was innocent of ANY wrong doing? Can you say it? Can you prove it?

Were did I say or insinuate 'all'? There are obviously enough for it to be a problem, otherwise there wouldn't still be a curfew in place

But your griping as IF ALL of them ARE the problem. So without saying it, you are by definition saying, that all the servicemen are a problem. Stereotyping, Naaaaw, not in the least.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

@Strangerland: I think Japanese people stop to participate in commenting JT comments area because they are not obnoxious like me and so instead of discussing their views they politely disappear.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

American military has to change their punishment as crimes against people, especially Japanese people in Okinawa, have been atrocious. Look at the people that commit these crimes...they might have a high school education, if that

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I think Japanese people stop to participate in commenting JT comments area because they are not obnoxious like me and so instead of discussing their views they politely disappear.

Anyone who spends enough time talking to enough Japanese people learns pretty quickly that they do not debate issues the way Westerners do. I'm not at all surprised there are not many Japanese commenters on Japan Today. But my comment was because Blueren was going on about Japan being the country of the posters on the board, when in fact almost none of the posters on the board are Japanese. You and a couple of others are the exceptions.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

What exactly is the point of this very lengthy article?

That someone even feels the need to ask a question like this is the point of the article.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

again, here we go with the typical ad hom attacks.

Pointing out that you haven't understood what people are saying isn't an 'attack' ad hom or otherwise, it's a simple statement of fact.

I already elaborated the point

You elaborated nothing. What you did do (and did again in your last post) is basically blame the women for the rapes - if the guy doesn't get ANY kind of indication, it can spiral put of control quickly, you said. when do some of these women take any accountability, you ask. So it's the woman's fault she got raped, because she didn't give 'any kind of indication'. I'm sorry, but this bothers me. When a man asks a woman for her number and she doesn't immediately scream blue murder and call the police or at least her father, you think it's natural for the man to think she's game for anything? What exactly do you mean, because it sounds an awful lot to me like you're blaming women for getting themselves raped by men who ask for their numbers.

How about maybe some of the girls leading the guys on

Yeah, maybe some of them even wear short skirts and smile at people. Even give 'em their phone numbers, the little hussies.

As you yourself pointed out, it's not an excuse for a man to do anything and you're sinking to new lows by making these pathetic suggestions.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

The us bases are not needed in Okinawa, its time too leave.

http://www.g2mil.com/okinawa-solution.htm

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

It's so sad to see how many of you got suckered into another "Okinawa discussion" with Bertie and Cleo. Okinawans have nothing to do with this article. One of the cases mentioned in the article took place in Okinawa, but Okinawans weren't involved at all.

This article is about sexual abuse in the U.S. military and how the use of non-judicial punishment results in sentences that are all over the place. That said, there's no guarantee the use of judicial punishment would result in more consistent sentences. I must say there was a little bit of "fuzzy math" in the article as well. When the article commented on "the 238 convictions are a small number compared with the estimated 26,000 sex crimes that may have occurred that year", you need to concentrate on two important phrases there: "estimated 26,000 sex crimes" and "may have occurred". Throwing hard numbers against guesses never does a lot for proving your journalistic integrity. Out of that estimated 26,000, how many victims were without evidence, KNEW they were without evidence, and therefore didn't even bother reporting them? How many answered the anonymous survey in the affirmative simply to support their "sisters in the military" who DID get assaulted. How many were so blitzed they had no clue anything happened until the guy posted pictures on the internet? Answering an anonymous survey is completely different than filing actual charges.

The case of Cathy Fisher is unfortunate, but understandable. Once Japan refused to prosecute Deans, the U.S. military had no reason to prevent him from finishing his tour of duty and returning home. The judgement she received from Japan two years later was a CIVIL judgement, not a criminal one. To hear her tell it, the U.S. was supposed to incarcerate this guy simply because someone had a civil case pending. Sorry, Cathy. It doesn't work that way. Had you been able to get an indictment when the criminal investigation was in progress, per the SOFA Mr. Deans would have been waiting on-base for the trial date regardless of the status of his tour of duty or discharge date. I suppose you could ask the Japanese police why they never indicted him, but Japan and the U.S. weren't "harboring a suspect" because the investigation had been completed and the charges dropped. Maybe things are more draconian in Australia, but in America you don't arrest or otherwise detain someone who's only a defendant in a lawsuit case.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

bass4funk wrote @bertieJust get these guys OUT of Okinawa,

Then who will protect Japan?

............................................................................................................ .

What kind protection US Muilitary can do? When Fukushima became trouble, US Military shipped back all dependents, including pets, to USA while Yamaguchi-gumi loaded up many large trucks with food and linens. From Tsunami? Earthquake? Typhoon? Do they have enough rice to feed Japan?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

@ bass 4funk "Then who will protect Japan"

LOL. Do you know a difference between a herd and Armed Forces ?! Members of herd are drinking and abusing women, just like your "service members". Neither discipline, nor decent combat skills. In case of a sudden attack, your herd will be smashed in seconds, like piece of dust. Japanese government should kick your "warriors" out of Japan as soon as possible.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

What you did do (and did again in your last post) is basically blame the women for the rapes - if the guy doesn't get ANY kind of indication, it can spiral put of control quickly, you said. when do some of these women take any accountability, you ask.

No, what I'm saying is, you and I weren't there, so you cannot say unequivocally and without a shadow of a doubt. Sure, I believe that the vast majority are legit charges, but I DO know for a fact that women can often embellish or over-exaggerate a situation, not to get off topic, but like with the child custody issue. You make it seem like the women are all innocent and I just don't believe that, just as YOU believe most servicemen are predators.

So it's the woman's fault she got raped, because she didn't give 'any kind of indication'. I'm sorry, but this bothers me. When a man asks a woman for her number and she doesn't immediately scream blue murder and call the police or at least her father, you think it's natural for the man to think she's game for anything? What exactly do you mean, because it sounds an awful lot to me like you're blaming women for getting themselves raped by men who ask for their numbers.

Once again, I elaborated on the issue. I'm blaming both. True, most of it falls on the guy, I think so, but a lot of it the girl needs to realize, they do could avoid the situation often. So why is it happening so much in Okinawa and not in the states? The women have some special super power to ward off sexual predators??? Most of these guys know that if they did it back home, they would get served, not only by the law, but by the women as well. I have worked in clubs doing sound and I have seen what often happens, it's NOT ONLY the guys that should solely get the blame, a lot of women, DO sadly put themselves in compromising situations. That's a fact.

Yeah, maybe some of them even wear short skirts and smile at people. Even give 'em their phone numbers, the little hussies

Sadly, a lot of them do just that.

As you yourself pointed out, it's not an excuse for a man to do anything and you're sinking to new lows by making these pathetic suggestions.

And it's also NO EXCUSE for SOME women to lead men on, in thinking so is low in itself.

@technoshpere

@ bass 4funk "Then who will protect Japan"

LOL. Do you know a difference between a herd and Armed Forces ?! Members of herd are drinking and abusing women, just like your "service members". Neither discipline, nor decent combat skills. In case of a sudden attack, your herd will be smashed in seconds, like piece of dust. Japanese government should kick your "warriors" out of Japan as soon as possible.

Ok, now that you got that off your shoulder, let's talk reality. Smashed in seconds??? Yeah, ok.....anyway, The hard truth is, NO one is going anywhere and the Japanese government CAN'T kick them out. Cooler heads need to prevail here.

@toshiko

What kind protection US Muilitary can do? When Fukushima became trouble, US Military shipped back all dependents, including pets, to USA while Yamaguchi-gumi loaded up many large trucks with food and linens. From Tsunami? Earthquake? Typhoon? Do they have enough rice to feed Japan?

What?

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

bass4funk Feb. 12, 2014 - 08:37AM JST The hard truth is, NO one is going anywhere and the Japanese government CAN'T kick them out. Cooler heads need to prevail here.

Unlike what has happened in previous cases in Okinawa, these sailors need to be tried in a Japanese court and allowed to be punished under Japanese law in the Japanese penal system. If found guilty, they should go and serve in Japanese prison for many years and no military intervention on your behalf, same laws apply to individual in the uniform as apply to civilians walking down the street, no exceptions. They should not be surprised, after all many U.S. women soldiers have been raped by fellow soldiers. It is sad, but every army has some criminals in its midst. It is hard to screen them out. US government should do do its part in curbing this criminal behavior.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Unlike what has happened in previous cases in Okinawa, these sailors need to be tried in a Japanese court and allowed to be punished under Japanese law in the Japanese penal system. If found guilty, they should go and serve in Japanese prison for many years and no military intervention on your behalf, same laws apply to individual in the uniform as apply to civilians walking down the street, no exceptions. They should not be surprised, after all many U.S. women soldiers have been raped by fellow soldiers. It is sad, but every army has some criminals in its midst. It is hard to screen them out. US government should do do its part in curbing this criminal behavior.

I totally agree, however, you have to take into consideration that every country has different ways of punishing crimes. If the US or ANY other country that has a military just hand the soldiers over to the locals, some countries, you'd get castrated or they would hang or behead you, you can't do that with any military. On one hand you make a reasonable compelling and logical argument and I agree, but every country that has armed forces won't serve the soldiers up, they will unless, there are guarantees that they won't be tortured. They will be tried by a military court, unless in very specific cases. It just won't happen, but again, the government should do a lot more.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

why is it happening so much in Okinawa and not in the states?

As Fadamore rightly points out (putting us back on track, many thanks), the article is about American military in Japan raping/abusing other members of the military. So can you tell us, what happens to the minds/libidos of soldiers when they are shipped out to Japan? It's apparently not a problem caused by their 'hosts' - they're doing it to themselves/each other.

Yeah, maybe some of them even wear short skirts and smile at people. Even give 'em their phone numbers, the little hussies

Sadly, a lot of them do just that.

Sadly?? I think you're confusing friendliness and a desire to look nice with an invitation to much, much more. Tread very carefully bass, those girls are NOT telling you what you seem to think they're telling you.

what I'm saying is....

if the guy doesn't get ANY kind of indication, it can spiral put of control quickly

How about maybe some of the girls leading the guys on

when do some of these women take any accountability for what's happening here

I DO know for a fact that women can often embellish or over-exaggerate a situation

a lot of it the girl needs to realize, they do could avoid the situation

it's NOT ONLY the guys that should solely get the blame, a lot of women, DO sadly put themselves in compromising situations

it's also NO EXCUSE for SOME women to lead men on

What you're saying is crystal-clear, bass. Shame on you, whether the girls are Okinawan or US military.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

As Fadamore rightly points out (putting us back on track, many thanks), the article is about American military in Japan raping/abusing other members of the military.

Some of the men.

So can you tell us, what happens to the minds/libidos of soldiers when they are shipped out to Japan? It's apparently not a problem caused by their 'hosts' - they're doing it to themselves/each other.

How should I know that. Problems can arise anywhere, but why does it happen MORE in Japan? We are NOT getting the entire picture.

Sadly?? I think you're confusing friendliness and a desire to look nice with an invitation to much, much more. Tread very carefully bass, those girls are NOT telling you what you seem to think they're telling you.

No, I'm not confusing anything. I don't need to tread lightly. Worked long enough in clubs to see that NOT all women are innocent. And precisely, what you just said, gives me a lot of reason to doubt SOME of these claims.

What you're saying is crystal-clear, bass. Shame on you, whether the girls are Okinawan or US military.

Shame on me? Hardly. Shame on taking this thread and trying to make every single American service men seem like they are Jackals. I have NEVER said or believed the girls don't have a legitimate case, but I'm so tired of this witch hunt (which is what it really is) to chastise ever soldier, but the women are all Saints, totally absolved of ANY wrong doing???? Yeah, ok. I think you are denying the real reality.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Some of the men

No one, anywhere, ever, has claimed that all men in the US military are rapists or even potential rapists. Just put that one away, it doesn't fly.

Problems can arise anywhere, but why does it happen MORE in Japan?

You wanted to claim that it was because the 'hosts' (=Okinawans) were treating the 'guests' (US military) 'like trash'. Given that the Okinawans are not involved, and the people oo the receiving end of the rape and abuse are fellow military....would you like to retract that assertion? or explain what you meant by it? How can anything the Okinawan or Japanese authorities or general public do, force one member of the US military to sexually abuse another, on base?

US military sexually abusing US military, even if it happens in Japan, is not the fault of the host nation in any way.

Worked long enough in clubs to see that NOT all women are innocent.

No, not all. Do you see how I can read that statement, agree with you about the statement, understand that you are not painting ALL women with the same brush - yet still assert that your overall stance is inappropriate and wrong?

Discussing the problem of sexual abuse by military personnel does not mean that I am claiming ALL soldiers are sexual perverts. I am sure you do understand this, you just want to make argument where there is none because you cannot/will not answer the legitimate points put to you. I see this as a pattern in your posts.

it's not an excuse for a man to do anything

The beginning and ending of the argument is right there, in your own words.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

No one, anywhere, ever, has claimed that all men in the US military are rapists or even potential rapists. Just put that one away, it doesn't fly.

They why come on here with anger and vitriol towards the military in general?

You wanted to claim that it was because the 'hosts' (=Okinawans) were treating the 'guests' (US military) 'like trash'.

Many do, that's a fact.

Given that the Okinawans are not involved, and the people oo the receiving end of the rape and abuse are fellow military....would you like to retract that assertion?

No

or explain what you meant by it? How can anything the Okinawan or Japanese authorities or general public do, force one member of the US military to sexually abuse another, on base?

Again, I do believe there is a problem and Bleuren pointed that out and thinks changes need to be made that there is a zero tolerance and to weed out the good from the bad as to how the best way to deal with the issue, he would have a better insight than I would. I have a lot of friends in the military, they're smart, ambitious and are just like every ordinary person. I just have a problem when you or the other usual suspects get all bent out of shape and try to excoriate The military as if they are a complete rouge institution.

US military sexually abusing US military, even if it happens in Japan, is not the fault of the host nation in any way.

That's NOT what we were talking about, we were talking about Okinawans and in that regard, they are not great hosts, let's be clear on that.

No, not all. Do you see how I can read that statement, agree with you about the statement, understand that you are not painting ALL women with the same brush - yet still assert that your overall stance is inappropriate and wrong?

How so?

you just want to make argument where there is none because you cannot/will not answer the legitimate points put to you. I see this as a pattern in your posts.

No, I don't want to or need to argue, I'll leave that for the JT usual American bashers. But you just see it in the way, YOU want to see it. You are getting emotional again. No need for it.

The beginning and ending of the argument is right there, in your own words.

And the many women equally, have the responsibility to make sure NOT to lead the men on. That would be the ending of the debate. Don't just show your outrage towards the man. I sense a very strong bias from you.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

why come on here with anger and vitriol towards the military in general

No anger or vitriol, but note that the article is about 'chaotic US military sex-abuse record'. I didn't choose the title. Persuade JT to feature an article about the soft and fuzzy nice things soldiers get up to in their spare time, and we can happily discuss that.

Many do (treating the 'guests' (US military) 'like trash'), that's a fact.

In what way?

they are not great hosts, let's be clear on that.

Yes please do 'be clear on that'. In what way are the Okinawans not 'great hosts'? What would you like to see changed, and how would it stop US soldiers raping each other?

I just have a problem when you or the other usual suspects get all bent out of shape and try to excoriate The military as if they are a complete rouge institution.

rouge??

We aren't talking about 'the military' as an institution (which sees this as a problem and is trying to do something about it), we are talking about the individual soldiers who rape and sexually abuse their fellow soldiers.

How so?

You're still suggesting that rape is the woman's fault. Remember, there is no excuse for rape. None. The length of a woman's skirt, the fact that she smiled at you and gave you her number, the fact that she flirted with you, even the fact that she 'led you on' - the instant she says No, at whatever point in the proceedings, is the end.

And the many women equally, have the responsibility to make sure NOT to lead the men on

Because it's the woman's fault when a man can't behave?

What a piece of work.

British people still refer to Chinese restaurants as "chinkies."

Was back home a while back, had a few Chinese meals, never heard anyone use that term.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Wow I guess most people did not read the whole thing, or every time we get a post that has Japan and US military in it we just get the standard same old "The Military needs to leave" or "who will protect Japan" posts.......... I miss the days when people used to actually debate facts and come up with a plan that they thought would work instead of just vomiting the same old emotional spill never back up with any facts.

For the article: For 21 offenders their only punishment was a letter of reprimand from the Air Force for Sexual assault this is a crime against the victims "a slap in the face" I think there should be no "minor" Sexual assault IMHO. I understand that unit commanders want to be in control, but with these random levels of Justice depending on the branch, I think a Joint branch review panel needs to be set up to review the sentences for each case or just create a mandatory minimum punishment required for each degree of sexual assault with very specific guild lines laid out in the UCMJ.

2 ( +2 / -1 )

No anger or vitriol, but note that the article is about 'chaotic US military sex-abuse record'. I didn't choose the title. Persuade JT to feature an article about the soft and fuzzy nice things soldiers get up to in their spare time, and we can happily discuss that.

They don't need to, that should be common sense that most of our military are good men and women, so if you want to discuss that, we can do that anytime.

In what way?

For starters, Having preconceived notions and prejudices that the military are a violent bunch.

Yes please do 'be clear on that'. In what way are the Okinawans not 'great hosts'? What would you like to see changed, and how would it stop US soldiers raping each other?

I would like to see the Okinawans be less xenophobic, anti-American and NOT go into thinking that EVERY American is a committed felon. Change that and you will have a BIG change in personal perception.

You're still suggesting that rape is the woman's fault.

I didn't say it's outright her fault. Do I believe it it's their fault, most of time, NO, but I have seen VERY OFTEN women trying to catch men and in particular military men and trying to score. I would see that all the time. Women dressing up in a provocative way. You are asking for trouble. Even if your personal intentions are not conveying that, but body language can always be misunderstood and factor in cultural and language barriers. The problem is, you just don't want to accept it.in most western cultures, if the woman is not interested, they usually will give a very clear indication that they are NOT interested and will usually tell you directly. In Japan and Okinawa that usually doesn't happen, because most women will just try to be nice to avoid a confrontation. I have seen it a hundred times.

Remember, there is no excuse for rape. None.

We both agree on that. But I already outlined that, if you want a lot of this to stop, women also need to learn if they date or go out with a service man, to make sure they are direct as far as their intentions goes.

The length of a woman's skirt, the fact that she smiled at you and gave you her number, the fact that she flirted with you, even the fact that she 'led you on' - the instant she says No, at whatever point in the proceedings, is the end.

True, but all that said, in giving her number, dressing up in a mini-skirt, flirting with you and even leading you on, means, you are NOW taking responsibility for whatever may happen, good or bad. You can't just think, every guy will get the message and every girl is innocent or incapable of doing something wrong.

Because it's the woman's fault when a man can't behave?

In some instances, yes.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

In the UCMJ for Article 120 (Rape, sexual assault, and other sexual misconduct) It only states

(a) Any person subject to this chapter who commits an act of sexual intercourse by force and without consent, is guilty of rape and shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct.

So for Rape in Article 120 it only says that a person can get anything including death but the punishment is decided by a Court , it goes on to talk about other crimes and defines them, but at no point is a minimum punishment stated. From that we can see how this scatter plot of punishments for sexual assault happen.

In case studies of Western Australia, California, Michigan, Florida and Pennsylvania indicate that crime decreased or plateaued under mandatory sentencing schemes.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

if you want to discuss that, we can do that anytime

Not till JT provides the topic. Otherwise we get removed for being 'Off topic'.

preconceived notions and prejudices that the military are a violent bunch

Preconceived? Or learned through 70 years of experience?

I would like to see the Okinawans be less xenophobic.....

...but not to smile at the men too much?

in most western cultures, if the woman is not interested, they usually will give a very clear indication that they are NOT interested and will usually tell you directly

The US bases are not 'western culture'? It's the military women on base that are getting abused by their countrymen. So these women are usually giving a very clear indication that they are NOT interested - and still they get raped and abused?

most (Japanese/Okinawan) women will just try to be nice to avoid a confrontation

So, are they getting raped because they're giving men the outrageous come-on, or because they're 'nice'? You're all over the place, bass.

all that said, in giving her number, dressing up in a mini-skirt, flirting with you and even leading you on, means, you are NOW taking responsibility for whatever may happen, good or bad.

....so, what you're saying is that, any woman who dates a military man has to be prepared for him to force her into unwanted sex. What were you saying earlier about preconceived notions and prejudices that the military are a violent bunch? You're the one propagating those notions, bass.

I think you'd better stop. The more you write, the deeper you dig yourself in.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Not till JT provides the topic. Otherwise we get removed for being 'Off topic'.

Exactly!

Preconceived? Or learned through 70 years of experience?

More preconceived and a lot of phobia, xenophobia and cultural misunderstandings.

.The US bases are not 'western culture'?

How it's run, the people, the culture, the laws and rules all deride from America, which has a western culture.

It's the military women on base that are getting abused by their countrymen. So these women are usually giving a very clear indication that they are NOT interested - and still they get raped and abused?

As far as what goes on and how it happens, I cannot concretely tell you, but Bleuren did point out earlier, that there were cracks in the system, so that's probably where you would start....

So, are they getting raped because they're giving men the outrageous come-on, or because they're 'nice'? You're all over the place, bass

Not all over the place, you are just getting highly emotional, again. I can't speak for what happens inside the military, I can only speak to what I have been a witness to.

....so, what you're saying is that, any woman who dates a military man has to be prepared for him to force her into unwanted sex.

No, you said it.

What were you saying earlier about preconceived notions and prejudices that the military are a violent bunch? You're the one propagating those notions, bass.

Not at all, not in the least, but I think, you are upset, because you see all the women as victims and I will submit to you, there is a lot more that goes on behind closed doors, but you want to definitively say, that without a doubt, all these admissions or alledged or perpetrated crimes were all the soldiers fault and none of the women's? Serious denial going on, cleo.

I think you'd better stop. The more you write, the deeper you dig yourself in.

I think, it's the other way around.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

I cannot see anywhere that Bleuren points out that there were 'cracks in the system', maybe it was removed. But, seriously...you need a 'system' to stop men raping? And Bleuren seems to be labouring under the delusion that he's addressing a load of Japanese people on JT....

you are just getting highly emotional

No, I am pointing out that you are not being either coherent or consistent. You state that Okinawan/Japanese women get into trouble with US soldiers because of social differences/body language, failure to 'explain her intentions', lack of understanding of the military and their culture, leading the men on, and that the same thing doesn't happen in the States. When it's pointed out to you that the article is about US military women who are being abused - women who one would imagine are perfectly well aware of the social mores, body language & culture of the organization of which they are a part and in which they grew up - it's still, to you, the women's fault. Your arguments make no sense.

you want to definitively say, that without a doubt, all these admissions or alledged or perpetrated crimes were all the soldiers fault and none of the women's?

'Alleged' crimes? There's no knowing until it's investigated whether an allegation is a crime or not. I would certainly never claim that every accusation of rape was that; it's quite possible for a person to have second thoughts and cry rape after what was consensual sex. But that's not what we're talking about. In the end, it's the man who decides, not to put too fine a point on it, where he puts his thing. So yes, without a doubt, a man who rapes a woman, even if she's wearing a short skirt, gave him her phone number and let him buy her a drink, is 100% to blame for the fact that a rape took place. Regardless of the nationality/culture of the female.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

But, seriously...you need a 'system' to stop men raping?

Its not a very popular idea. But avoidance of the idea does not seem to be solving the problem. Throwing a pack of late teen and early twenties males onto a military base with a handful of females without a system, you are going to get what happens with every other mammalian species on this planet. If you think education is the answer, I went through 12 years of public schooling and 4 years of college, and one thing I learned is that some people cannot be educated.

So if you say we don't need a system, what do we need?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

they're obviously just really bored cause there's probably not much to do on a base, let alone on a little island. i would set up some of those new AKB zombie vaccine shooty game booths up around the bases pronto.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

I cannot see anywhere that Bleuren points out that there were 'cracks in the system', maybe it was removed. But, seriously...you need a 'system' to stop men raping? And Bleuren seems to be labouring under the delusion that he's addressing a load of Japanese people on JT....

Then you were probably not reading his post correctly.

No, I am pointing out that you are not being either coherent or consistent.

People usually say that when the truth starts to resonate

You state that Okinawan/Japanese women get into trouble with US soldiers because of social differences/body language, failure to 'explain her intentions', lack of understanding of the military and their culture, leading the men on,

That is absolutely correct, from what I have seen countless times.

and that the same thing doesn't happen in the States.

Sure, but NOT on the same level, you have your idiots everywhere, but most American women, most, would shut aggressive guys down in a snap, whereas MOST Japanese women will try to avoid confrontation or making a scene in public, the same goes for the Chikan in the trains, how many foreign women are groped compared to Japanese women, honestly?

When it's pointed out to you that the article is about US military women who are being abused - women who one would imagine are perfectly well aware of the social mores, body language & culture of the organization of which they are a part and in which they grew up - it's still, to you, the women's fault. Your arguments make no sense.

Because, you choose to see it in a bias one-sided skewed light. I never said, that, but ok whatever....

Alleged' crimes? There's no knowing until it's investigated whether an allegation is a crime or not. I would certainly never claim that every accusation of rape was that; it's quite possible for a person to have second thoughts and cry rape after what was consensual sex.

Thank you for acknowledging that for the record!

But that's not what we're talking about. In the end, it's the man who decides, not to put too fine a point on it, where he puts his thing.

So yes, without a doubt, a man who rapes a woman, even if she's wearing a short skirt, gave him her phone number and let him buy her a drink, is 100% to blame for the fact that a rape took place. Regardless of the nationality/culture of the female

What? Ok, so the woman that tries to squeeze money out of a guy for dinner and drinks and puts on an elaborate show of being interested to the point that she allows him to touch her, maybe even make out with her and going halfway, it's not her fault and she bears absolutely NO responsibility. If what you just said,wasn't so ridiculous, I might chuckle a bit.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

I still think bromide in the coffee or American hookers would reduce the instances of sexually motivated attacks on fellow servicemen/women, and the ladies of Okinawa. No urges, no problem. They should spend the day square-bashing, working out, painting rocks white or other things to occupy their days, and then go to bed for a good 8 hours kip.

Are the US military feeding their troops testosterone to make them more aggressive, and as a side effect horny?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

One solution military can do is making entire military force in Japan as female. Well, it is not practical because there is no data female service person raped fellow serviceman or Japanese man, I take back my idea. I forgot top officers are male and it is discriminatory to have all female service personals in any USA base.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

most American women, most, would shut aggressive guys down in a snap

Yet the American female soldiers still get raped when they come to Japan. Why is that?

whereas MOST Japanese women will try to avoid confrontation or making a scene in public, the same goes for the Chikan in the trains, how many foreign women are groped compared to Japanese women, honestly?

Well I don't have any statistics, but I do know that I and my non-Japanese friends have met with our fair share of chikan. But you realise that again, you seem to be saying that it's the Japanese woman's fault that she gets groped? Make no mistake, the groper, and ONLY the groper, is to blame.

so the woman that tries to squeeze money out of a guy for dinner and drinks and puts on an elaborate show of being interested to the point that she allows him to touch her, maybe even make out with her and going halfway, it's not her fault and she bears absolutely NO responsibility.

Do you really realise what you're saying??

Nobody 'squeezes money out of a guy for dinner and drinks'. No one forces a man to take a woman out to dinner if he doesn't want to. Maybe he assumes that by paying for dinner he's paying for something else. All that means is that he's a scumbag who sees women in terms of what he can get, nothing more - not that the poor misunderstood lamb is being 'squeezed'.

Maybe it's not a show, maybe she is interested in him and wants to pet and play around a little; but the moment things get as far as she wants them to go, the moment she says No, then the ONLY alternative is for him to zip up. Take a cold shower if it makes him feel better.

What you are saying is truly ridiculous and more than a little scary, and does not make me want to chuckle at all. It makes me want to shudder.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Yet the American female soldiers still get raped when they come to Japan. Why is that?

Good question, I want to know myself.

Well I don't have any statistics, but I do know that I and my non-Japanese friends have met with our fair share of chikan. But you realise that again, you seem to be saying that it's the Japanese woman's fault that she gets groped? Make no mistake, the groper, and ONLY the groper, is to blame.

I never said, it was the woman's fault. I was just saying that in Japan, women are more prone to tolerate chikans as in NOT saying anything to bring attention to themselves, than let's say, a New Yorker would. Because, he would get cursed out or worse.

Nobody 'squeezes money out of a guy for dinner and drinks'.

Oh, they don't. NEVER? So you're saying it's just incomprehensible that a woman could or would EVER use a man.

No one forces a man to take a woman out to dinner if he doesn't want to.

I never said that.

Maybe he assumes that by paying for dinner he's paying for something else. All that means is that he's a scumbag who sees women in terms of what he can get, nothing more - not that the poor misunderstood lamb is being 'squeezed'.

Or the woman presented herself and acted inappropriately to give the guy that indication.

Maybe it's not a show, maybe she is interested in him and wants to pet and play around a little; but the moment things get as far as she wants them to go, the moment she says No, then the ONLY alternative is for him to zip up. Take a cold shower if it makes him feel better.

Maybe then, she shouldn't have led him on thinking that there could be a chance of having intercourse. Now you're making it seem like women are completely clueless and in no way shape or form can ever identify what some guys intentions are. Then that means, women like that should not go out. Maybe the woman should decline to go to his place, refrain from letting him get too close, just to be on the safe side, you just never know. You are giving the man 100% of the responsibility, but you think the woman is just incapable of doing anything wrong. Nice!

What you are saying is truly ridiculous and more than a little scary, and does not make me want to chuckle at all. It makes me want to shudder

And when you say things like that, I just shake my head in utter disbelief, completely one-sided.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

All that means is that he's a scumbag who sees women in terms of what he can get, nothing more It might surprise you to learn that plenty of women also regularly see men in terms of something they can get (financial or whatever) and will use their own tactics and manipulation to those ends as well. It goes both ways, darling.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

My point is, every time Japan is slammed for wrong doings, I see and articles in the news redirecting everyone to another country that did the same and everyone forgets the real issue of discussion.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

It might surprise you to learn that plenty of women also regularly see men in terms of something they can get (financial or whatever) and will use their own tactics and manipulation to those ends as well. It goes both ways, darling.

No, it doesn't surprise me at all. What surprises me is the tenacity with which some people stick, despite all evidence to the contrary, to the myth that the victim of rape or sexual abuse 'was probably asking for it'.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Rape of soldiers, men or women; Rape of civilians, men or women;

What is to debate?

Rape.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

How about all servicemen rape cases give to Federal Justice System?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I hope the negatives are more for me saying that punishments for rapists should be more harshly punished, than from those who think Japan did little wrong during WWII. Hard to see though as there wasn't much in the following comments. I am trying to look at other points of view ...

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It's 'jarheads', 'squaddies' or whetever you call the fodder-rank soldiers the world over. They are usually from the lower classes, are trained to accentuate their violence and sex and violence so often go hand in hand. Not a question of US troops in Japan at all: British squaddies in Cyprus were just as unwelcome. But all things being equal, I wouldn't want US bases in my country if I were Japanese.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@ Benjamin - You try fighting in a country for a Government that only considers you "expendable" and see what your outlook on life changes to. Your comment is amazingly ignorant of the circumstances.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

No, it doesn't surprise me at all. What surprises me is the tenacity with which some people stick, despite all evidence to the contrary, to the myth that the victim of rape or sexual abuse 'was probably asking for it'.

Hardly, you are just shoving ALL of the blame on the men and just giving women a pass absolutely deplorable!

But all things being equal, I wouldn't want US bases in my country if I were Japanese.

You would if you knew that there is a high probability that communist China were breathing down your throat and ready to march into your country.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Hardly, you are just shoving ALL of the blame on the men and just giving women a pass absolutely deplorable!

Even if the roles were reversed, with a woman buying drinks and dinner for a man and getting close to him expecting sex because she perceived his cues and body language as a yes, and he said no, the fact that he accepted all of her advances up to a certain point would never excuse her raping him.

Consent is a clear and defined ''Yes'' and is never negated by the amount of doting that person A has given to person B, and that should be universally true for everyone. There is no obligation to continue things further if that person does not wish to.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

What exactly is the point of this very lengthy article?

To bring the crazies out of the woodwork. Mission accomplished.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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