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Elderly shoplifters outstrip teenagers in Tokyo

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“Our survey shows that elderly shoplifters tend to be lonely, having no one to talk to, and having no hobby to enjoy,” he said.

but having enough money (!)

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Did the survey happen to cover what kinds of things the elderly are stealing, or at what kinds of stores? How many are repeat or habitual offenders? Anybody who has been a teenager knows why teens shoplift, but what drives a Japanese senior citizen to this kind of behavior? The increase in crimes committed by the elderly is not new, but it's a bit thin to think it's just because they're lonely and bored.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

The name of the game is survival. Old folks gotta eat too ... so if they don't have enough money to buy food or don't have any money at all ... gotta take what they can get to survive.

At my local market free samples of food are given out at certain times every day ... and the homeless know this and drop by for their "free meal." Quite a few of them could be classified as elderly.

Under such sad conditions, guess if there are no freebies ... shoplifting is the next step ...

3 ( +4 / -1 )

I don't know if they count the number of old people suffering from dementia (milder or more serious stages). The grandmother of my wife was, and the grandfather was strictly against hospitalising her. The family was working and she could sometimes slip out of the house. She was caught many times taking stuff from shops and leaving without paying, it was horrible for the family.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Why am I not surprised?

In general, the elderly are really starting to become a liability on society.

-14 ( +3 / -17 )

There are regular reports of bodies lying unfound for weeks or even months after a single, elderly person has died alone. Commentators say the phenomenon is a result of the fraying of familial ties as Japan has modernised.

Modernised? Really? While technology has evolved Japanese culture has not. People die alone because nobody cares about anybody else. Ask a Japanese person what their neighbour's name is and I'll bet the can't tell you. It's a nation of 128 million strangers!

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Mirai Hayashi: Elderly, they're a "liability"? You mean that?

Well, that does speak volumes in unspeakable ways. I guess you'll find this probably only in Japan, again...

3 ( +4 / -1 )

They're bored, and they know nothing will happen to them because they're old.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

The functional word here is 'caught'. Teens don't shoplift to get caught, they do it because they can't pay, or don't want to, whereas the elderly in most cases seem to want to be caught. They either have nothing in their lives and want someone to talk to, or else they have no food and/or security and believe jail is the viable option. If better care were provided for those who cannot afford the extreme costs of an old-folks home and have no family to live with, this wouldn't be so rampant in society.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

No hobbies? Considering all the cash my city hall spends on crap for the elderly, shame they all can't be bothered to get off their butts and take advantage.

The whole "lonely" thing is a discussion point - why are they lonely? Is it because they treat their kids like crap and are mean to everyone or did they not raise their kids to look after them? Either way, if you have family and you are lonely, there is a reason for that and I don't think these old folks are always the victim many would like to believe they are. Some are just nasty.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Actually the number of elderly and the disabled who are caught shoplifting is increasing according to the news.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

ok so old folks in japan turn to stealing as a hobby, lol

0 ( +2 / -2 )

this is a problem when there are no link anymore from their family, pity.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

why are they lonely? Is it because they treat their kids like crap and are mean to everyone or did they not raise their kids to look after them?

Or maybe they just didn't raise any kids, full stop. Maybe they were dinks (intentional or otherwise) and their partner has gone before. Maybe they pushed any kids that did appear into daycare so that they could work FT, and never got around to forging strong parent-child ties. Maybe their kids who they loved very much died before them. In the course of a life all kinds of stuff happens, and it isn't always bad people that bad things happen to.

Some are just nasty

Most people, old or not, are not nasty. They're just people. Sometimes a bit of compassion isn't out of place.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

In general, the elderly are really starting to become a liability on society.

ehhhh? Seems we are losing human values!!

5 ( +5 / -0 )

In general, the elderly are really starting to become a liability on society.

I put it a little more bluntly than this: old people are killing Japan. I sometimes ask my students, both young and old, what they think of my statement. Not one single person has disagreed with me. Not one.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

Its just the golden rule ,On your way up be good to the pple you meet becoz you gonna meet them on your way coming down ,these old pple were mean to their kids and did'nt want to see their relatives now that they are older its beginning to dawn on them that lonliness can kill ,they are just now anti society hence the shopliftings.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

All you people complaining about the old folks being a drain on society need a reality check: that's going to be YOU some day sooner than you realize. The smugness of youth knows no bounds....

7 ( +7 / -0 )

At my local market free samples of food are given out at certain times every day ... and the homeless know this and drop by for their "free meal." Quite a few of them could be classified as elderly.

Sadly, I've seen this too (it's usually elderly males, rather than females). And my local supermarket has had to block up all but one entrance/exit, because of the prevalence of shoplifting by ... you guessed it ... elderly people.

In the past week, our apartment complex has had no less than three false fire alarms, and an elderly lady was spotted pushing the emergency button on two occasions. That's three times that the local firefighters were called out for no reason at all. Even naughty kids know better than to push their luck like that. I'm getting mighty sick of it.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I sometimes ask my students, both young and old, what they think of my statement. Not one single person has disagreed with me. Not one.

You seriously expect students to disagree with sensei?? Does not happen. Something to do with respect, which appears to be in short supply among some posters, and not disturbing the wa of the classroom.

mlg4035 -

Too true. And sad.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

@Cleo: my students, especially the middle-aged ones, have shared heartbreaking stories with me (and often their classmates in their process) about the trials and tribulations of elder care. Sometimes they cry. They trust me. If they strongly disagreed with my sentiments, believe me I would know it. For starters, they would drop out on me, wouldn't they?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Tessa -

If they strongly disagreed with my sentiments, believe me I would know it. For starters, they would drop out on me, wouldn't they?

I'm not saying that all disagree with you. Doubtless the ones with elderly relatives needing care do have a hard time of it, and I imagine their stories are genuine - I have a friend who tells me hair-raising stories about her senile mil, who needs 24/7 care. But the ones who don't agree with you aren't going to openly disagree. Especially not after their classmate has told her heartbreaking story and sensei has nodded sympathetically all the way through it. As for dropping out - why should they? They've presumably paid good money to have you teach them English. As long as they're learning English, there's no reason for sensei's personal opinions to drive them out of the class, is there?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

I put it a little more bluntly than this: old people are killing Japan. I sometimes ask my students, both young and old, what they think of my statement. Not one single person has disagreed with me. Not one.

One generally does not expect empathy from students. They sound very ungrateful and selfish, which is par for the course at that age.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I have a friend who tells me hair-raising stories about her senile mil, who needs 24/7 care.

Fair enough. You can tell me about just one person. I can tell you about literally dozens, and I can share hundreds of heartbreaking stories, especially about women who are trapped between caring for elders and grandchildren at the same time. I don't know where you are living in Japan, but it's obviously nowhere near me. I maintain that the increased life expectancy of Japanese people, coupled with the incredibly low birthrates, is destroying this country. So far, I have yet to meet one Japanese person who disagrees with me.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

I can share hundreds of heartbreaking stories, especially about women who are trapped between caring for elders and grandchildren at the same time

Are these the same women you look down on because they're not pursuing careers or working full-time?...

So far, I have yet to meet one Japanese person who disagrees with me.

As I pointed out, you're hardly likely to.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Maybe they pushed any kids that did appear into daycare so that they could work FT, and never got around to forging strong parent-child ties.

This is a bizarre statement, by the way. I know plenty of elderly people who've been cast off by their kids, despite giving them dedicated (possibly too dedicatedI) one-on-one attention in childhood. And I also know elderly people who basically abandoned their children to be raised by schools or other people, who manage to maintain unswerving love and devotion till the end. It's not a simple equation.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I maintain that the increased life expectancy of Japanese people, coupled with the incredibly low birthrates, is destroying this country. So far, I have yet to meet one Japanese person who disagrees with me

From this I conclude is it not "the old people" kiloing Japan...it is the young people who are not producing enough babies as that would cut into their ability to shop for designer goods or spend all day playing video games and reading manga. As for them disagreeing with you, there is a difference beween disagreeing with someone and saying you disagree with them.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

This is a bizarre statement, by the way.

Not so much a statement, more a dig at tmarie's why are they lonely? Is it because they treat their kids like crap and are mean to everyone or did they not raise their kids to look after them? I didn't like her idea that every old person who is lonely is lonely because they're nasty. Like you say, it's not a simple equation; the cards fall in different and unpredictable ways. Which is why it's not a good idea for folk to make statements that might well come back to bite them when they're old.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

There should be a shoplifting store where normal people can drop off the stuff they have no space/use for and shoplifters can "steal" it. I would put prices on things just to make the shoplifters happy that they are stealing something of worth. Benefits all of society if you ask me.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

"A government survey last week found 3.5 million elderly women and 1.4 million elderly men live alone." Here's an idea: why not get the 3.5mil men and 1.4mil women together into to some kind of seniors clubs? At least they won't be alone!

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Old people, maybe its a cry for attention?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Mirai Hayashi: Elderly, they're a "liability"? You mean that? Well, that does speak volumes in unspeakable ways. I guess you'll find this probably only in Japan, again...

Yes I do mean it, and its not just Japan, but Japan especially. Japan is an aging society. There are more people over the age of 60 than there are under the age of 20. That means over time, the burden on the younger generation is going to increase because there will be less people in the workforce and yet more elderly people to take care of and support financially.

Also, look at the hospitals in Japan. They are jammed packed full of senior citizens who use it like a home for the elderly. Women have to make reservation MONTHS in advanced to have a baby. Basically, you will need to start reserving a space the moment you find out you're pregnant because the hospitals are so overcrowded.

Look at all of the stories we read on JT alone. 70-80 years accidentally running people ( a lot of the times, small children) over with their car, and there is huge increase in crime committed by elderly people.

I am not saying that its the fault of the elderly; its more a problem with society not providing more programs to help them, but it is a fact that they are becoming a liability. By 2060, 40% of Japan's population will be over 60 (that probably includes everyone who is reading this). I would hope that by then, society has come up with ways to make sure that the elderly can live comfortably without having to shoplift, crowd up hospitals, or cause a burden on their children or their children's children.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Until there is a reliable survey done, this headline should read:

"Elderly shoplifters WHO GET CAUGHT outstrip teenagers in Tokyo," as stated in the article.

I'm sure teens with nimble fingers are much less likely to get caught.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

put it a little more bluntly than this: old people are killing Japan. I sometimes ask my students, both young and old, what they think of my statement. Not one single person has disagreed with me. Not one.

Perhaps your students first reaction was the same as mine: This woman's a nutter. Just stay out of her way.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Old folks who have been nasty to their family won't be attended. Folks who didn't get out and make friends will be lonely. Folks who didn't treat people well with have no friends. I see a pattern here. Folks who are kind, have close firends, who are active or were active will have a community around them. Those who did not? Well these are the people we are hearing about. I fear this will only get worse with how people behave these days. If you don't want to grow up, become old and be lonely, be kind to people, get out and meet people. It isn't rocket science. If you bed ridden, call your friends and family and invite them over. Pride and nastiness is not your friend and it seems some folks are learning this.

Tessa, 100% agree with you. I look at people like my FIL and his mother and I roll my eyes at how they behave and their assumption that they have a right to so many things. It IS folks like them that HAVE ruined this country. The fat cat older folks have ruined the economy and society. Thankfully, I have many students who want to change this and I have faith they will.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Tessa

I agree with 90% of what you're saying. I am not a monster and I do have compassion for the elderly. But the fact of the matter is that so few of them are contributing to society. On the contrary, they take more than they give. And when there are more takers than givers, there is going to be nothing left for the younger generations. You might hate what I am saying but I am keeping it real..this is a fact. On JT alone, there have been countless articles about seniors and how they are hurting society. Look at what's the top news today: Grandmother kills her two granddaughters. Now two more young lives are snuffed out by a senior. Why? Who knows. Maybe she's mentally ill or snapped...but these stories about the elderly are increasing.

So I still stand by my earlier statement no matter how unpopular it may be. Its a fact! The elderly are increasingly becoming a liability, and something needs to be done to remedy that. I don't want to become a burden on society when I am old, so hopefully Japan realizes that it needs to stimulate population growth, and take care of its elderly a bit better so that they don't have to lean too heavily on the younger generation.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Folks who didn't treat people well with have no friends. I see a pattern here.

I know just what you mean, and I agree with you. Folks who for example refuse to attend a friend's wedding because they don't approve of the venue, for example, will eventually find themselves not being invited to stuff. Folk who sneer and look down at other folk because they have chosen a different lifestyle will find themselves alone. You're dead right.

The elderly do not have a monopoly on nasty.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

@Mirai

I suggest opening your eyes rather than relying on media. JT is not going to have stories about elderly that do positive things, they go for stuff that attracts hits. Of course the elderly are a burden on society financially, so are children, many mentally and physically ill.

Many seniors in Japan contribute the best they can, easy to pick on the weak though innit.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

People need to work longer (and I don't mean longer hours, but retire later...perhaps until 65 / 70 or later if their are of sound mind (and most are).

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Yes, I'm sure all those working women from 60 years ago...

I'm not trying to pick sides here but according to this study of working women in the U.S., Great Britain, some other European countries and Japan, the rate of Japanese women who worked hovered close to either side of 50 percent from 1960 to 1981, the years the study takes into account. In fact, if anything, women were more likely to be working 100 years ago than they are now but in the past they were more likely to have worked for fewer overall years.

http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/1983/02/art3full.pdf

According to another study:

The Japanese imported whole factories from England, and employed hundreds of thousands of women to work in them. By 1900 250,000 women worked in the textile industry, and they accounted for 63% of the industrial labor force. Women were forced by economic realities to work in the factories. The women who worked there were paid low wages, lived in crowded and often diseased dormitories, where they were virtual prisoners.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@falseflagsteve

You're taking my post out of context. I am sure that there are MANY seniors who contribute to society in positive way. I am not saying that they don't. But financially they are more a burden on the younger generation than any other age group.

I get my info not only from JT but from MANY media outlets, and they all pretty much say the same thing: Japan is not replenishing their population fast enough and we will be looking at a much bigger economic downfall if the growth of our aging population out paces the younger population. This is fact...look it up.

As a whole, children are less of a financial burden, and more of an investment. You put money into their education and their upbringing, and return is much more than the investment...As for the elderly, its more of an upkeep thing. We have to invest so much money on care and medical facilities, and yet financially, we don't get the same return on investment...it more of a loss. children vs. elderly...not a real comparison.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

We have to invest so much money on care and medical facilities, and yet financially, we don't get the same return on investment...it more of a loss.

The roads you drive on to get to work, go shopping, drop your kids off at school - the schools your kids attend - the general hospital you turn to for help when you're sick - all infrastructure put in place in past years by those you now call a 'financial burden'. When the younger generation complain about 'return on investment' (while refusing to have enough kids to maintain the population and at the same time demanding free schools, free day care and paid maternity leave), it's the oldies who should be complaining about the loss.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Ambrosia, most didn't have their kids in some sort of daycare - and 60 years ago, being a housewife itself WAS a FT job unlike now with all the lovely modern technology we have were washing can be done at the press of a button - I'm just laughing at Cleo's comments so no worries on picking sides.

Folk who sneer and look down at other folk because they have chosen a different lifestyle will find themselves alone. You're dead right. Love it Cleo, love it. The bitterness and rage.

And indeed, it isn't old folks who have a monopoly on nastiness but since I'm staying on topic...

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

@ Mirai

You seem not to grasp it. Japan does not have to grow economically as does no first world nation. It needs to be able sustain itself, become more equal and use it's skill in technology.

I would also like to add that most Japanese stay in Japan until they die unlike many seniors in the west. Many of these seniors have property and savings which will go to benefit their children and grandchildren.

Many shoplift to get attention but some have been in poorly paid jobs and need better help from the government.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

@Bruinfan

People need to work longer (and I don't mean longer hours, but retire later...perhaps until 65 / 70 or later if their are of sound mind (and most are).

According to UN, unless Japan finds away to increase the younger population, they would have to raise the retirement age to 77 in order to keep the GNP at a net positive.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

tmarie: Ambrosia, most didn't have their kids in some sort of daycare - and 60 years ago, being a housewife itself WAS a FT job unlike now with all the lovely modern technology we have were washing can be done at the press of a button -

You're correct about the modern appliances but not so much about women 60 years ago having their kids in some sort of daycare, the first of which were established in Japan in 1890.

The Japanese industrial revolution took place later than in Europe, and advanced during Sino-Japanese War (1894) and Russo-Japanese War (1904). It raised the demand for female factory workers, and as a result, additional day care centers were established within factories such as the Tokyo Spinning Company (1894), Tokyo Kanegafuchi Cotton Spinning Company (1902), Mitsui Mining Cement Tagawa Plant in Fukuoka prefecture (1906), and several match factories in Kobe.

In addition, during the Russo-Japanese War, wartime child care centers were set up for families of soldiers at the front and bereaved families, which remained as child care facilities after the war ended. The rapid development of Japan's industries and economy had generated a new impoverished class in addition to increased demand for a female workforce. Under these circumstances, in 1900, Yuka Noguchi and Mine Morishima, young graduates from the nursery school teacher's training course of Tokyo Women's Normal School, opened Futaba Kindergarten for deprived orphans in Yotsuya, Tokyo, which later, in 1915, was renamed as Futaba Day Care Center.

While there was a strong call for the need to protect young children and more day care centers were formed by private citizens, the Home Ministry in 1908 was determined to provide subsidies to day care centers as official aid in a "Reformative Relief Work Project." In due course, several public day care centers were established in major cities, first in Osaka (1919), then in Kyoto (1920), and in Tokyo (1921). In 1926 their numbers reached 65, and by 1929, had exceeded 100. In rural areas, seasonal day care centers opened in the busy farming season for farmers under the government's support of agricultural policies, and by 1940, the number of such facilities increased to 22,758. However, there was no legislative framework for day care centers, even though, for kindergartens, the government had already issued the Kindergarten Ordinance.

.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@falseflagsteve

Are you living in the 80's? First of all, MANY people do leave Japan and work and live in other countries, much more than any other time in history.

Secondly, if you haven't noticed, Japan is now the THIRD largest economic power. We use to be second, and we're still on a downward trend. That means that eventually our economy will be at a point when we won't be able to sustain ourselves. A study by the UN Population Division released in 2000 found that Japan would need to raise its retirement age to 77 or admit 10 million immigrants annually between 2000 and 2050 to maintain its worker-to-retiree ratio.

And also, if you haven't noticed, Japanese technology is also on the decline. For example, who is leading the smart phone market? Sony? Panasonic? No its Samsung and the Apple, because Japan is falling behind in that market as well as a lot of other tech markets.

Many shoplift to get attention but some have been in poorly paid jobs and need better help from the government.

Correction: MOST shoplifter do it to get attention. I use to follow shoplifting stories and 8 out of 10 times, the shoplifter would pay for some items but take others, and the other items are usually inexpensive items that they could easily afford to buy. And the usual excuse given is that they felt insignificant or lonely or wasn't getting attention from their families.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

All of you young seem to forget that the now old, are the ones contributing to all institutions that benefited you as you were growing up. When you grow old, you will only then have knowledge of the plights and blights of old age. If you want to be outraged, be outraged by Business that uses you up when you are young and spits you out when old. It is a good idea to not have children and make the existing population more appreciated. You will also never be upset by neglect of your children.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

be outraged by Business that uses you up when you are young and spits you out when old.

This ties in well with the argument that the elderly do nothing but sponge off the state coffers; when workers hit 60, the 'official' retirement age, if they want to continue working (and judging from what I see around me first hand, I'd say that's 90+%) the company will graciously deign to allow them to remain in their jobs (often training up a younger worker to eventually replace them), at a fraction of the salary they were earning up until the previous month; suddenly you're on less than a living wage and the slightest hint at discontent is grounds for dismissal. So you have hordes of able-bodied 60-somethings who want to work but are forced into retirement, eating into their savings for the 5 years until the pension (that they've paid for) kicks in. Give them decent jobs, and a lot of the they're a drain on the state arguments will go away; not only will they be working and being (and feeling) useful, they'll be staying younger and healthier longer and be less likely to need medical care; and when/if they do need it, it will be after they have paid that much more into the system.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

The elderly are increasingly becoming a liability, and something needs to be done to remedy that.

Soylent Green?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@Mirai

I will put it in lsymans terms for you. The whole system needs to change to benefit the majority not the minority. Your mindset thst Japan is failing in tech is the type of mindset that prevents progress.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Ambrosia, interesting read - thanks. Interesting how Japan has gone so far away from that and some people seem to think that parents (oh let's be honest, MOTHERS) are abandoning their kids if they, gasp, horror, actually use daycare and contribute to the welfare of society by paying txes like penion and health care. More so when gasp, such people have kids who seem to use these daycare system and suggest that perhaps their child will not have a strong bond with said child. I do think however, there is a massive difference between orphans during the war and daycare. Let's be honest, Japan has never had such a need for daycare like they do now - be it for the young ones or the old ones!

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Cleo, I agree with you on allowing them to work. The fact that Japan has a retirement age at 60 is laughable. Collecting pension at 65 is a joke. The longest/second longest lifespan in the world and they are tossed out far too early. That being said, how many of them are old geezers who do very little at work and play the sempai card? Those who work well can be allowed to stay, those who don't should've been fired ages ago but that would mean a change in labour laws.

Yes, many of the older folks have "paid" their dues (others have not paid a damn penny and my grandmother in law is a fine example of this) but with the retirement age and the lifespans and hospitals PLUS the pension, sorry but old folks ARE draining the life out of this country. Senile grandma who didn't work a day in her life who is now bedridden and living off the system IS a drain. Is that harsh? Yes but it is the reality of the situation and it will only get worse. More money being spent on the old than there is on the young - which is one reason why so many working families can't afford to have kids these days. Senile grandma is 85 and probably will live for another five years with a horrible quality of life. What's the point? Ethics and medicine... something that many nations are struggling with and it is costing us all dearly.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

how many of them are old geezers who do very little at work and play the sempai card?

You just cannot let it rest, can you? If they're healthy and able, why not just accept that they are doing a job of work, and that they should be allowed to do that job of work?

others have not paid a damn penny and my grandmother in law is a fine example of this

grandma who didn't work a day in her life

Well if she's a grandma she put at least one taxpayer into the system even if she didn't pay a damn penny, so that should count for something. I'm all in favour of tax/pension/health insurance credits for mothers of young children (say, up to the end of elementary school), working or not; those who are able to work and choose not to because they can afford not to, can afford to pay their own premiums or get hubby to pay them.

If Gran's 85 now she was housewifing in her younger days without the benefit of all our modern household conveniences, which I agree with you make life today a lot easier. If I can quote you, 60 years ago, being a housewife itself WAS a FT job. So, was gran doing a FT job, or did she not work a day in her life? Can't have it both ways.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

You just cannot let it rest, can you? If they're healthy and able, why not just accept that they are doing a job of work, and that they should be allowed to do that job of work?

Funny, I comment, you comment, I comment so I guess you too can't let "it" rest - though what this "it" is is beyond me right now. I do recall you saying you don't have much office experience here. There are many, many window sitters who collect fat pay checks who do little to nothing. Heck, there is even a Japanese word for it but I am sure you already know that. Why they should be allowed to collect such paychecks for such little or no work is beyond me - but that is a totally different topic than this one.

No one suggested that grandma doesn't count for anything. Some mothers from 60 years ago were great, some were not. I CAN have it both ways knowing the situation I am thinking of and I find it amusing that you, once again, think you know better.

Does this not get tiring Cleo? No one wants to hire a women who has been out of a job for 13 years. They won't find jobs that will pay their pension and health care. And in many cases, families can't afford to pay her pension and health care without this tax break so guess what? No kids. You don't seem to understand that YOUR generation and this generation are very different. It is folks like you that are dragging this country down because you don't support the notion that mothers want to work/need to work. Instead you look down on them and suggest their kids will abdondon them in their old age... Unreal. And so unsupportive. Is it any wonder old folks are lonely when this is how they speak to others?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

There are many, many window sitters who collect fat pay checks who do little to nothing......Why they should be allowed to collect such paychecks for such little or no work is beyond me

There are some, not many (if there were that many Japan would never have made it up to #2) and people don't suddenly become window-gazers when they hit a certain age; someone gazing out of the window at age 60 has probably been gazing in excess of 30 years. I agree that anyone not pulling their weight and earning their pay should be let go, but why all the aggro against the 'old geezers'?

No one suggested that grandma doesn't count for anything.

Maybe my reading skills are failing me, but the way I read it phrases like not a damn penny and didn't work a day in her life are pretty scathing. So was she doing a full-time job raising Mr tmarie's parent, or not?

you don't support the notion that mothers want to work/need to work

Yes I do. The thing is that I also support the notion that women should be able to stay with their young children without feeling guilty about being 'only' a mother. Whether she stays at home for a year, or three years, or six years or thirteen years should be her choice.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

No one is saying they haven't been window gazers for 30 years Cleo. Why the old geezers? Because this thread is talking about them.

No Cleo, she was not doing the raising.

No Cleo, you clearly don't support working mothers or you wouldn't make all the nasty comments you make about those who put their kids in childcare. Say, like the nasty comment you made on here about those who put their kids in daycare. And no, I don't agree it should be HER choice, it should be THEIR choice as you know, dads should have an opinion as well when it comes to their kids. And I have zero problems with women staying home - I just thinking they should be paying for the choice. Which is something I repeat everytime and something you like to ignore.

But back to the old lonely folks, eh?

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she was not doing the raising.

Then why bring her into the discussion? She is not a typical gran and putting her forward as a reason all 85 year olds are a waste of space doesn't make much sense.

I just thinking they should be paying for the choice. Which is something I repeat everytime and something you like to ignore.

If we want women to have more babies, a few incentives are needed; credits for those who choose to stay home, subsidised day care for those who choose not to. The ladies sitting on their bottoms because they can afford to should pay their way. You want me to chuck you under the chin and write 'I agree' every time? That would make for a very boring discussion.

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Disillusioned at Jul. 08, 2013 - 04:52PM JST There are regular reports of bodies lying unfound for weeks or even months after a single, elderly person has died alone. Commentators say the phenomenon is a result of the fraying of familial ties as Japan has modernised.

Modernised? Really? While technology has evolved Japanese culture has not. People die alone because nobody cares about anybody else. Ask a Japanese person what their neighbour's name is and I'll bet the can't tell you. It's a nation of 128 million strangers!

My sentiments exactly. Japan is seen (abroad) ans an advanced nation but it only takes a few years of living here to understand that it's all on the surface. Technology is great but to replace humans with robotic seals (as has been known to happen) is weird.

I am sure many old people are lonely but the youngsters don't care on iota. I also question why you would have to take to shoplifting just because you're lonely.

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typo:

should be "if they are of sound mind" (no way to correct these comments...I'll have to be careful)"

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I don't mean to sound too cynical, but maybe if this generation spent less time boozing it up with their coworkers and being slaves to their companies and spent more quality time with their families instead, they wouldn't be alone. If you act like your children only treat you as a food and money source but don't offer anything else besides that, then guess what? Once your children don't need that from you anymore, there's no reason for them to stick around. I know we owe a lot to our parents, but it takes more than obligation to take care of elderly parents. It takes love.

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stop arguing with people over things that you agree with.

Sigh...ああ言えばこう言う.....I thought you didn't like me ignoring stuff you repeat every time? :-)

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Mirai HayashiJul. 09, 2013 - 11:56AM JST

I am sure that there are MANY seniors who contribute to society in positive way. I am not saying that they don't. But financially they are more a burden on the younger generation than any other age group.

You sound like Ben Stiller in Happy Gilmour.

...children vs. elderly...not a real comparison.

Really, Mirai, I didn't think you were that shortsighted.... I hate to state 2 very obvious arguments, but here they are: 1. Without these elderly people who are such a "Burden" in your eyes, we would not exist. 2. Do you plan on dying before retirement or discovering a magical anti-aging potion? ....because you know, we will all become a "burden" (elderly) someday!

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because you know, we will all become a "burden" (elderly) someday!

No, we won't. There are many elderly who are not burdens on their family nor society. No one has said all old people leech off the system, the public and their families.

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No one has said all old people leech off the system, the public and their families.

the elderly are really starting to become a liability on society.

I put it a little more bluntly than this: old people are killing Japan

I maintain that the increased life expectancy of Japanese people, coupled with the incredibly low birthrates, is destroying this country.

it is a fact that they are becoming a liability

the fact of the matter is that so few of them are contributing to society. On the contrary, they take more than they give

sorry but old folks ARE draining the life out of this country.

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I don't see the word "all" written anywhere.

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I don't see the word "all" written anywhere.

Oh I forgot, unless a poster writes 'all old people, none excluded' every time, what they really mean is 'some' old people. Or 'a few' old people. Or 'that old geezer by the window'. Or 'my granma'.

the elderly are really starting to become a liability on society. (=only some of the elderly are a liability?)

I put it a little more bluntly than this: old people are killing Japan (=only some old people are killing Japan?)

I maintain that the increased life expectancy of Japanese people, coupled with the incredibly low birthrates, is destroying this country. (=not all old people, only the ones who live a long time?)

it is a fact that they are becoming a liability (they = the elderly, they're all old by definition)

the fact of the matter is that so few of them are contributing to society. On the contrary, they take more than they give (they = the elderly, see above)

sorry but old folks ARE draining the life out of this country. (=not all old folks, just the old ones?)

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Well unless folks write "all" I don't jump to the assumption that they mean everyone. It certainly makes like nicer that way.

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