Ghosn says he is helping everyone who stood by him

"It has been six months and they haven't sent the file. Why haven't they sent the file?"

Because it contains no actual other than back strapping law breaking? And the prosecution couldn't break you even after months of abuse so the pathetic version of Japanese justice is not only blind but having trouble standing on one leg. And certainly can't bear the thought of another country ridiculing it's ridiculous unprofessional process.

Ghosn knows how to treat his employees!

Ghosn also said Japan had yet to send his case file to Lebanon as requested by the Lebanese government. "It has been six months and they haven't sent the file. Why haven't they sent the file?"

This is a total red herring. Despite Lebanon's offer to have a look, there is no mechanism for this to happen. Japan and Lebanon do not have a treaty covering cooperation on judicial matters (for good reason). Japanese prosecutors, like any administrative body in Japan, cannot unilaterally decide to hand over documents to a foreign government containing the names and details of people who have cooperated with a criminal investigation. It would be a serious violation of Japanese privacy laws if they did.

Lebanon is ranked as one of the most corrupt countries in the world. It's not unreasonable to assume that Ghosn would attempt to use his wealth and connections with Lebanese officials to learn the identities of key witnesses who might testify against him and try to threaten or bribe these people into silence. You cannot put anything past him at this point.

"Why haven't they sent the file?"

This should really be a massive eye-opener for those who may still be holding out hope that Ghosn is an honest and trustworthy player in this drama. He knows exactly why the file hasn't been sent to Lebanon. His lawyers have undoubtedly explained it to him, the Japanese government has explained, the Lebanese government has explained. And yet, he continues to publicly pretend that he has no clue. Why? The reason is because he knows that the average person doesn't know this, and by obfuscating and sewing seeds of doubt and confusion, he might be able to deceive some low IQ supporters.

The reason is because he knows that the average person doesn't know this, and by obfuscating and sewing seeds of doubt and confusion, he might be able to deceive some low IQ supporters.

For a minute there, I thought you were talking about someone else ... .

If Ghosn was the sort of person he says he is, he wouldn’t have fled to Lebanon in the first place, betraying everyone who helped him in Japan.

@meiyouwenti

that's exactly why he fled !coz he was framed !

But @M3M3M3, what you are saying is what Ghosn is saying as well, Japan has absolutely no intention on reveling the truth nor it is after justice. No ? Does it not sound like an excuse to you ?

If he says he doesn't know why then he doesn't know why. Japan should publish the reasons at least.

Further more even if you theory is true, the alleged privacy issues can easily be solved and the process can continue.

Japanese prosecutors, like any administrative body in Japan, cannot unilaterally decide to hand over documents to a foreign government containing the names and details of people who have cooperated with a criminal investigation. It would be a serious violation of Japanese privacy laws if they did.

Does it mean they didn't hand any document to interpol containing names when reporting Ghosn?

He needs to man up and face the charges in Japan, France and Holland. His wife needs to be prosecuted over the $7m and his son needs to be extradited from the USA and prosecuted over the $10m.

people who helped him need to be extradited and prosecuted.

crime is crime.

This should really be a massive eye-opener for those who may still be holding out hope that Ghosn is an honest and trustworthy player in this drama.

Sorry but not really ! OK fair enough, maybe low IQ, but I am definitely no a supporter. To me personally It is more because I am curious what really took place. I think they are hiding something, procedural mistake or incompetence or other weirdness.

Does it mean they didn't hand any document to interpol containing names when reporting Ghosn?

That is a different case, the fleeing has nothing to do with the tax and money case

Japanese prosecutors, like any administrative body in Japan, cannot unilaterally decide to hand over documents to a foreign government containing the names and details of people who have cooperated with a criminal investigation. It would be a serious violation of Japanese privacy laws if they did.

What about Interpol? If Japan really had something then they would have presented it to Interpol or any cooperating countries. The j-prosecutors have nothing.

crime is crime.

Then why is Saikawa still walking free? And why were only foreigners with little Japanese language ability arrested, when what they are accused of would clearly require the assistance of Japanese speakers in the company?

If the law is not applied impartially, then there is no justice, or law.

The day Ghosn returns to Japan is the day Japan returns children kidnapped from their foreign parents who are legally entitled to be with them. Oh wait, that's never.

Japan cannot even compel a report to justify the Taylors or Ghosn extradition.

Actually we are getting much more evidence and public exposure from Ghosn.

Who do you want to believe? Ghosn or the prosecution?

He needs to man up and face the charges in Japan, France and Holland. His wife needs to be prosecuted over the $7m and his son needs to be extradited from the USA and prosecuted over the $10m.

people who helped him need to be extradited and prosecuted.

It has been 21 months after Greg Kelly being arrested, yet where's his trial?

Do they have really anything on Ghosn and Greg Kelly?

crime is crime.

He needs to man up and face the charges in Japan, France and Holland. His wife needs to be prosecuted over the $7m and his son needs to be extradited from the USA and prosecuted over the $10m.

people who helped him need to be extradited and prosecuted.

crime is crime.

Fine with that, only if they found him guilty. Don't do that only to him, please do that to other Japan execs too. Anyone can check the news that they just don't anything with Japanese corporate execs except let them bow in the front of public, and everyone just pretend nothing is going on.

The poverty n hunger is rising so fast in lebanon plus the rising corruption its only a matter of time when Lebanese will eat ghosn alive

I left this case alone to come back to find a blockbuster movie. If they couldn't provide proof to Interpol and the FBI/CIA had nothing on Ghosn then that's how he was able to escape. He was being held with no evidence and they just wanted to take over the company. It's not the first time this has happened.

Helping them...with his thinking. Can’t put a price on that I guess.

Forgive me for not fully understanding the charges against Ghosn, but as a foreigner, wouldn't someone else be responsible for reporting his salary? I mean, if he is filling out some kind of tax return written in Kanji, I doubt he did it himself.

About spending company money, how much did he spend? I'm guessing he paid for a dinner with his employees with a company credit card or used his company Suica to buy an onigini.

Sorry, I should be more familiar with the case, but the charges seem frivolous.

The poverty n hunger is rising so fast in lebanon plus the rising corruption its only a matter of time when Lebanese will eat ghosn alive

Yea, there is no hunger and corruption in Japan.

Talking about a speck on someone's eye while carrying a log on your eyes.

@n1k1

But @M3M3M3, what you are saying is what Ghosn is saying as well, Japan has absolutely no intention on reveling the truth nor it is after justice. No ? Does it not sound like an excuse to you ?

I don't think so. The strength of the evidence would have been revealed at trial eventually. We can have sympathy for Ghosn over the time it's taken to prepare the case, but it hasn't been excessively long compared to other cases of complex international corporate fraud.

Japan should not have a system where some people are above the law and some crimes never get prosecuted just because they are difficult, time consuming and expensive to investigate properly. This is what now happens in the US where the SEC allows corporate executives to just pay huge fines without admitting wrongdoing in exchange for avoiding the hassle of criminal prosecution. The reason Ghosn and Kelly were never put on trial in the US (despite being charged) is because they agreed to one of these SEC settlements. Ghosn paid $1,000,000. Kelly paid $100,000.

https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2019-183

Further more even if you theory is true, the alleged privacy issues can easily be solved and the process can continue.

Even if they could share the information, what purpose would that serve? It would be absurd to hold a trial in Beruit. Ghosn doesn't get the luxury of choosing which courts around the world will have the privilege of hearing his case.

Japan is where the crime occured, Japan is where the witnesses are based, and Japan is where the suspects were based until one of them fled on a private jet hidden in an instrument case.

If he says he doesn't know why then he doesn't know why. Japan should publish the reasons at least.

If Ghosn isn't aware of this he either needs to pay closer attention or get better advisors. The Japanese ambassador to Lebanon and the Lebanese Minister of Justice made this clear in a press conference earlier this year.

@drlucifer

Does it mean they didn't hand any document to interpol containing names when reporting Ghosn?

Japan is a member of Interpol, meaning this type of limited information sharing has an existing legal basis. It's been approved by the Diet. Information sharing with Lebanon has not. That's the big difference.

@Silvafan

What about Interpol? If Japan really had something then they would have presented it to Interpol or any cooperating countries. The j-prosecutors have nothing.

Members of Interpol are never required (or even asked) to disclose the substance of their case when requesting a red notice. Requests by member countries are assumed to be well founded and taken at face value. Interpol is just a police cooperation organisation set up by the members for the benefit of members. It's not a judicial body.

Members of Interpol are never required (or even asked) to disclose the substance of their case when requesting a red notice. Requests by member countries are assumed to be well founded and taken at face value. 

NK kim and CCP Xi will love the interpol will love been taken at face value.

I don't think so. The strength of the evidence would have been revealed at trial eventually. We can have sympathy for Ghosn over the time it's taken to prepare the case, but it hasn't been excessively long compared to other cases of complex international corporate fraud. Even if they could share the information, what purpose would that serve?

It will serve the truth. It will serve justice. You know, one of the reasons we need a justice system. If Japan has the overwhelming evidence then they have nothing to lose.

None of us is really convinced they have any evidence because they locked up 65-old for 3 months trying to extort a confession.

This is what now happens in the US where the SEC allows corporate executives to just pay huge fines without admitting wrongdoing in exchange for avoiding the hassle of criminal prosecution.

Right and It is perfectly fine this. Also it was another good idea on how to approach.

If Ghosn isn't aware of this he either needs to pay closer attention or get better advisors. The Japanese ambassador to Lebanon and the Lebanese Minister of Justice made this clear in a press conference earlier this year.

I google-ed a bit. But still no luck with anything specific. Have you got anything ? Perhaps his excellency wasn't clear enough ? Just doesn't make sense why would he says something like that ? Language issues perhaps ?

Finally, If I may add , he might as well be guilty, no, I am not saying he is innocent. If he was free to defend himself and there were lawyers present during the interviews, I think the public opinion would have been different. Have you seen the trial of the US student accused for spying in North Korea ? The one that died I think later . And to us not knowing any of the details, that is how the Ghosn handling looked to us.

@M3M3M3

It scares the crap out of me how opaque and secretive is the MOJ in Japan.

If Japan has solid evidence they should make it public, like all other countries do.

@M3M3M3 Good job explaining. But your argument crumbles with one simple fact - Saikawa is free. Answer that one and you have a case.

>

M3M3M3:

Japan is a member of Interpol, meaning this type of limited information sharing has an existing legal basis. It's been approved by the Diet. Information sharing with Lebanon has not. That's the big difference.

So, you are saying that by their own fault, Japan is not able to share information that might convince Lebanon that there is a reasonable case against Ghosn and that he would have a fair trial in Japan?

So sounds like he is a Smart operator....

Japan is where the witnesses are based, and Japan is where the suspects were based until one of them fled on a private jet hidden in an instrument case.

Kelly: "Based in Japan"? Well, he's being detained on bail in Japan. He was based in the US until he was invited to pop over to Japan for a "meeting", which has turned out to be a very long meeting.

Nissan: This suspect is based in Japan, yes.

I'm sure there are many other witnesses and persons of interest who are outside Japan.

Don't pray usually but I pray for Kelly, he has absolutely no chance. Prosecutors are going to dace around in their underwear at the chance to get at least one gaigin on the behalf of Nissan executives who "Suprisingly" have immunity. A normal person would be embarrassed at the obvious nature of procedures but not Japanese justice.

@bokuda

It scares the crap out of me how opaque and secretive is the MOJ in Japan.

If Japan has solid evidence they should make it public, like all other countries do.

I'm not sure the MOJ is as opaque as you might think. No country I'm aware of releases evidence to the public in a criminal case prior to trial. There are good reasons for this such as protecting potential witnesses and preventing the destruction of evidence.

For example, you wouldn't be able to go to the FBI and demand to know exactly what Ghislaine Maxwell has done, when, where and with whom. The government's case will be presented at the eventual trial. That's the system everywhere.

@justasking

Good job explaining. But your argument crumbles with one simple fact - Saikawa is free. Answer that one and you have a case.

That's not a difficult question. Saikawa did not break any actual laws with his scandal. What he did was receive a bonus that he was not entitled to and would not have received if the internal Nissan rules on share based incentive pay had been properly followed. He did not create those rules and he was not responsible for misapplying them and they were not misreported in official disclosures to the JFSA and SEC. What Ghosn and Kelly did was in an entirely different league and it's why they (and only they) were charged by both Japan and the US. It might also interest you to know that Ghosn benefited substantially from this same misapplication of the rules that resulted in Saikawa being overpaid, but unlike Saikawa, Ghosn has yet to repay the money. Nissan can try to recover it from Ghosn in their civil suit against him.

@TomDC

So, you are saying that by their own fault, Japan is not able to share information that might convince Lebanon that there is a reasonable case against Ghosn and that he would have a fair trial in Japan?

If you want to look at it that way, sure. I don't think 'fault' is the right word considering that few (if any) countries have such a treaty with Lebanon. There is also no guarantee that Lebanon would agree. Lebanese people may not want their information being shared with Japan.

@n1k1

It will serve the truth. It will serve justice. You know, one of the reasons we need a justice system. If Japan has the overwhelming evidence then they have nothing to lose.

They have alot to lose if Ghosn is acquitted in proceedings that do not meet Japanese standards. Time is on Japan's side. They can simply wait Ghosn out at this point. He can't travel to any country that has an extradition treaty with Japan and he has to worry about flying over such countries in case his private jet has to make an emergency landing. In the meantime Japanese prosecutors can just keep working on their case.

Right and It is perfectly fine this. Also it was another good idea on how to approach.

Really? How is it a good idea to hold wealthy elites to a difference standard of justice only because it's a hassle to get copies of their Swiss bank accounts and hire a French translator? I don't think it's very fair to send the easily prosecutable little guy to jail while Ghosn gets to pay $1 million to avoid doing time for the same crime.

I google-ed a bit. But still no luck with anything specific. Have you got anything ?

Here is an article describing the meeting and the lack of a treaty. There was also a press conference at the time. Also sorry, it was the Japanese Justice Minister and the Lebanese PM, not the ambassador.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nissan-ghosn-lebanon-idUSKBN20P1OK

Im sure the string of people who are under arrest in Turkey and the US because of him can use his help.

And he can also lend some help to Lebannon, his asylum country, whose currency is collapsing.

LOL

@M3M3M3

Saikawa did not break any actual laws with his scandal

Wrong. He was also a signatory, as was Kelly who btw was arrested, to the documents purporting Ghosn's alleged misconduct. Care to answer that one?

@M3M3M3

Let me give you a hint. "I didn't know what I was signing." Do you know who said that?

Is news about Ghosn ever going to return to the Business section?

They have a lot to lose if Ghosn is acquitted in proceedings that do not meet Japanese standards. Time is on Japan's side.

Yeah "the japanese standards", how is evidence collected, interview procedures and god knows what else.

Really? How is it a good idea to hold wealthy elites..

Wealthy or not aside, he is a 65-old otherwise harmless bloke. He did good for Nissan and Japan. He might have been involved in some shady transactions. He was not and still isn't danger to the Japanese public or state and there is absolutely no need to cut limbs. Sometimes these instruments make much more sense and it is good to have them.

Here is an article describing the meeting and the lack of a treaty.

Unfortunately, I couldn't decoded why the met and why japan won't reply

On the other hand, why is he not saying anything juicy. I thought this will be on Netflix by now, but it isn't. This bit doesn't make sense. The whole thing probably is very complicated.

Ghosn. Stan in line to prosecute. Man is a thief and a criminal. Ghosn's 'defense' of Kelley is as opaque as can be. Why would anyone defend the actions of these two goombahs? That's rhetorical.

Prosecution doesn't have any credit.

The only evidence against Ghosn that hasn't been destroyed yet is the "Omar's route", that's a loose end because the only witness denies the facts.

Prosecutors cannot compel any report to ask for Taylors or Ghosn extradition after 6 months.

Prosecutors cannot start the trial against Kelly after 14 months.

Give up guys, just get back to your normal life and forget this lost cause already.

@justasking

Wrong. He was also a signatory, as was Kelly who btw was arrested, to the documents purporting Ghosn's alleged misconduct. Care to answer that one?

Let me give you a hint. "I didn't know what I was signing." Do you know who said that?

You're comparing apples and oranges. Saikawa signed off on Ghosn's compensation package, absolutely. No doubt about it. But there is nothing inherently illegal about signing off on the CEO's pay. Nissan is free to pay its CEO whatever it wants. It only becomes a crime when the amount of that compensation is not properly disclosed to regulators, and it was Ghosn and Kelly as CEO and Representative Director who were in unique positions of responsibility compared to other Nissan directors in terms of being on the hook for the accuracy of these regulatory disclosures.

@M3M3M3

Kelly as Representative Director who were in unique positions

You can't just nitpick evidences that support your argument. Again, Saikawa is in that same position as Kelly. Kelly can't sign off anything without Saikawa knowing because Saikawa NEEDS to SIGN the report. The compensation which was reported to the regulators went through BOTH Kelly and Saikawa (I am not making this up. There are news reports and documents supporting this claim).

Fake evidence needs time to renew or nissan have lost your files.

He needs to man up and face the charges in Japan, France and Holland. His wife needs to be prosecuted over the $7m and his son needs to be extradited from the USA and prosecuted over the $10m.

people who helped him need to be extradited and prosecuted.

crime is crime.

Its not happening. Get over it.

@justasking

You can't just nitpick evidences that support your argument. Again, Saikawa is in that same position as Kelly. Kelly can't sign off anything without Saikawa knowing because Saikawa NEEDS to SIGN the report. The compensation which was reported to the regulators went through BOTH Kelly and Saikawa (I am not making this up. There are news reports and documents supporting this claim).

Nobody disputes that Saikawa, along with every other Nissan director including Ghosn and Kelly, signed off on annual reports that turned out to be materially misstated. The relevant question, in a criminal context, is whether you have enough evidence to prove that Saikawa knew the reports were misstated at the time he signed them, or at least that he was reckless as to their accuracy. Making a mistake is not a crime and proving someone's mental state is notoriously difficult. Ghosn was assigned responsibility for dealing with executive compensation issues so there might be a substantial amount of documents and emails demonstrating his and Kelly's intentions to deceive regulators. There may be no such evidence in the case of Saikawa.

Remember, we haven't actually seen most of the evidence yet. All we know is that it was shared with the SEC and they decided to charge both Ghosn and Kelly. This suggests that the evidence is quite compelling and it tends to disprove the idea that it's simply an anti-foreigner witch-hunt by the Japanese.

The relevant question, in a criminal context, is whether you have enough evidence to prove that Saikawa knew the reports were misstated at the time he signed them

You're so biased. If is Saikawa is not a crime, if it's a gaijin it is a crime.

[evidence] tends to disprove the idea that it's simply an anti-foreigner witch-hunt by the Japanese.

I won't believe it until I can see that evidence with my own eyes.

@bokuda

You're so biased. If is Saikawa is not a crime, if it's a gaijin it is a crime.

That's hardly my position.

If you want to talk about bias, can I ask why you and others aren't demanding the arrest of Colin Dodge, Carlos Tavares, Joseph Peter, Andy Palmer, Mitsuhiko Yamashita, Hidetoshi Imazu, Takao Katagiri or any of the dozens of other board members who signed off on Nissan's inaccurate accounts? Why is it that you are only interested in arresting the one board member who had unpleasant things to say about Carlos Ghosn and probably turned him in?

I won't believe it until I can see that evidence with my own eyes.

Fair enough. Let's hope the trial can start soon.

@M3M3M3

Making a mistake is not a crime

With this logic, anyone can claim they did a mistake. Oh wait, that's just what Saikawa did. Apparently, that was enough for you to claim that he is innocent and Kelly isn't. Kelly claims this was a mistake. Why don't you believe him too?

@justasking

With this logic, anyone can claim they did a mistake.

They can all try to claim that but whenever there is sufficient evidence to suggest that it may have been more than a mistake, such as a deliberate plan to deceive regulators, charges are filed and a trial is held.

Kelly claims this was a mistake. Why don't you believe him too?

It's not my place to believe or disbelieve anyone. I haven't seen the evidence and so I've never actually taken a firm view on the guilt or innocence of any of these Nissan characters. What I do know is that Japanese authorities have reviewed the evidence and decided to charge Kelly. The Securities and Exchange Commission reviewed the evidence and decided to charge Kelly. Kelly himself agreed to a $100,000 settlement with the SEC to avoid criminal prosecution.

japan jurisdiction system never on the fair side to foreigners. however, some still in denial to accept this fact.

We gotta respect Japanese culture.

They like to be detained in solidarity confinement, a shower a week, lights on 24/7 and 10hours of interrogations a day.

When a Japanese national commits a mistake abroad, let's give them the Japanese treatment.

It's their culture.

One would think the operators of Nissan would be clamoring to the government to end this charade. The witch hunt is killing Nissan. The prosecutors are a national embarrassment to the point one would think even the government would be desperate to end this farce. Ghosn is gone and they all seem to be too childish to let it go.