crime

Ghosn calls Kelly's guilty verdict 'face saving' for prosecutors, Nissan

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Hes not wrong.

The suspended sentence is the judge's slap in the face on the way out for being innocent.

16 ( +32 / -16 )

Everybody knows that. But apologists will never accept. They have blind love for J-Gov and J-Injustice. They don't care about real Japan.

11 ( +26 / -15 )

Pretty accurate assessment, I'd say.

Japan's "justice" system is not that far from China's.

10 ( +23 / -13 )

Really, you have done so in many occasions.

Actually, the only time he held a press conference to defend himself the judges revoked his bail and put him back in jail for weeks. He definitely could not defend himself in the press, which was being used against him on a daily basis with ‘leaks’ from the prosecutors.

It's very bizarre that the judge in Kelly’s trial felt the need to talk so much about Ghosn when he wasn’t on trail. Surely this means he couldn’t possibly get a fair trail in the future (although we know it was never going to be fair in the first place!)

9 ( +21 / -12 )

Expats even remotely interested in this result expected this outcome.

Sad but true.

Their 99% conviction is simply ridiculous. They send innocent people to prison all the time.

If Kelly didn't have sensible media coverage, he may very well be confined to a cell as I write.

8 ( +19 / -11 )

@kennyG

What kind of roles does the press must play at the court?

For public figure, their image is one of their asset. It needs to be balanced, not only based on media that only get their information from prosecutor office. Maintaining image is one of necessity for those public figure.

8 ( +13 / -5 )

Well said Mr. Ghosn.

7 ( +20 / -13 )

@kennyG

What is it really that he had to be treated as someone so special compared to those suspects in our everyday lives?

Exactly. But keep in mind, the negative PR campaign done to him by Nissan, planned by Saikawa and Hari Nada as shown in their emails, to force public persecution - not to mention the leaking of prosecutors investigation to the media which is super ILLEGAL.

You see now how "justice" is defined in Japan? Justice in japan is never fair or just. It is always for the protection of status quo, Japan old boys club, the J-inc, the police and most importantly the prosecutors promotion.

7 ( +18 / -11 )

Just about every corporation in Japan is supplying their executives with moody tax avoiding benefits. It's the way things are done. Same with most big corporations around the world.

But if a Japanese exec gets caught they just execute a perfect 90⁰ bow, utter something containing the word "regrettable" and then burst into tears; and the result is a slap on the wrist.

The amount of gaijin execs that have been scapegoated for the misdeeds of many of their Japanese colleagues, is disproportionate.

7 ( +15 / -8 )

Much of the commentary on the Ghosn case has focused on differences between criminal justice systems in Japan and the U.S., but it is also necessary to note broad similarities. In both countries the overwhelming majority of criminal cases are cleared without trial, and conviction rates in contested cases are high. 

For anyone actually concerned with he facts of the case and an objective legal analysis: https://apjjf.org/2020/24/AronsonJohnson.html

Ghosn is an effete member of the ruling class - for which criminal conduct is a daily routine.

The man is a fugitive. Wanted by Interpol. In the USA, Ghosn was fined for his behavior by the SEC, in the US $1 million and a 10-year ban on serving as an officer or director of a U.S. reporting company.

The very odd defense of a wealthy and powerful individual who purposefully and knowingly violated numerous laws to fatten his coffers is amusing.

He wasn't 'just' avoiding taxes, he was stealing money thru a complex skim aka embezzlement. He's a thief. Ghosn added to his own benefits through personal use of company funds without following proper procedures, such as internal authorization and disclosure.

Nor is he or any other non-Japanese executive, simply as a white-man, a scapegoat, that's spurious and borders on racist. The Japanese judicial system has an effective rate of conviction similar to the USA. Folks toss the 99% conviction rate aka figure about, as if it has meaning - without even the simplest understanding or examination of the Japanese judicial system - in fact, most gaijin would be hard-pressed to present a valid understanding of the judicial system in their own countries. One of the most corrupt being in the USA.

Just for comparison:

Prisoners: Japan 70,000. USA 2,200,00.

Prosecutions: Japan 160,000. USA 15,000,000.

Embezzlement: Japan 2,000. USA 18,000.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

This is the Japanese case of the century.

Interesting on so many levels.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

@Gabor Fabricius

Carlos Ghosh is a criminal, and has made a second career of smearing Japan’s juridical system after escaping and deserves his sentence plus another ten years.

Wait until you have to deal with Japan judicial system then you can say whatever you want

5 ( +15 / -10 )

AntiquesavingToday  09:11 pm JST

Why? Ghosn jumped bail and is hiding from the J-judicial system yet he says whatever he wants. And the J-bashers lap it up.

Yeah and with what I know about Japan's judicial system had I been him I would run also.

Then you'd also be a fujitive from justice. Meaning that for the rest of your life you will be restricted in where you can go, in order to avoid arrest. Think about that carefully.

I got picked up by the police from my house, brought to the police station and told to confess.

Not told to what just to admit I did it.

I was let go the next morning after it was determined the "murder" they wanted me to confess to was a suicide, a "Gaijin" found dead near my home jumped from his apartment. So naturally a dead Gaijin that looked "beaten to death" the only other Gaijin I'm the areaust be guilty!.

Learned quickly the Japanese police are not to be trusted.

Sounds like total BS to me. But if not the simple solution is don't live in Japan.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

It's also saving the face of Nissan, which had been a guilty party since the beginning," he said. Japan's third-largest automaker has admitted to failing to properly declare the former auto tycoon's remuneration in financial documents.

He's not wrong.

Heard Kishida in his press conference refer to the Russian oligarch corporations as "zaibatsu".

It is time for some of the Japan Inc. zaibatsu to get their comeuppance too.

4 ( +17 / -13 )

I hope the world understands that this result is of a judicial system in a total mess.

They have to find their accused guilty (do not want to disturb that 99% conviction rate) but the evidence is super super sketchy (read mostly imaginary).

What is a good prosecutor to do?

4 ( +11 / -7 )

@Richard Gallagher,

Where are you getting your information? The SEC charged Ghosn and Kelley based on information presented to them that was provided by NISSAN. If that doesn't look like a setup from the beginning, I don't know what does.

Also, the US does not have 15,000,000 prosecutors based on information I can find. There are a total of 1.3mil total attorneys for the whole US. That includes both prosecutors and defense attorneys.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

They have to find their accused guilty (do not want to disturb that 99% conviction rate) but the evidence is super super sketchy (read mostly imaginary).

As bad as that 99% conviction rate sounds, please bear in mind that the US system is pretty damn close with @95% of all cases ending in (guilty) plea deals, usually after an aggressive prosecution bullies defendants into them by threatening maximum sentences and ruinously expensive legal bills at trial.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

sakurasukiToday  06:44 pm JST

@Gabor Fabricius

Carlos Ghosh is a criminal, and has made a second career of smearing Japan’s juridical system after escaping and deserves his sentence plus another ten years.

Wait until you have to deal with Japan judicial system then you can say whatever you want

Why? Ghosn jumped bail and is hiding from the J-judicial system yet he says whatever he wants. And the J-bashers lap it up.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

Much of the commentary on the Ghosn case has focused on differences between criminal justice systems in Japan and the U.S., 

Prisoners: Japan 70,000. USA 2,200,00.

Prosecutions: Japan 160,000. USA 15,000,000.

Embezzlement: Japan 2,000. USA 18,000.

And I resty case!

Another attempt at saying look over there not here!

Now why not compare with the rest of the developed countries? Oh right because the contrast just wouldn't work would it!?

Try Canada, UK France, Sweden, etc... Places where one has the right to a lawyer when being questioned, places where one has the protection from long hours of interrogations at all hours of the day night or morning without a lawyer and long periods of detention without being charged with anything.

Try doing those comparisons.

2 ( +10 / -8 )

And I resty case!

Another attempt at saying look over there not here!

Now why not compare with the rest of the developed countries? Oh right because the contrast just wouldn't work would it!?

Actually the comparison works pretty well with other developed countries too - Japan has one of the lowest prison populations per capita in the world.

Try Canada, UK France, Sweden, etc...

Japan is way lower than any of those too. The number of prisoners per 100,000 population in each of those is:

Japan 37

Canada 104

France 119

Sweden 73

This isn’t to say that Japan’s system isn’t problematic, it clearly is. They should allow lawyers to be present during interrogation for one, and the 23 day pre indictment detention being another. But the fact is that anyway you slice the data Japan’s overall system results in way fewer people actually in prison than almost any other developed country.

This seems hard to reconcile with the 99% conviction rate. The reason for that seeming discrepancy is mainly that prosecutors in Japan have a discretion to drop cases before trial and, except in a very narrow range of cases, can’t plea bargain. So they tend to simply drop the cases against a large number of accused when they think the evidence against them is shaky, and only proceed with a small number of cases that they are almost assured of getting convictions in. The 99% figure only includes those which went to trial, if you were to expand it to include everyone who gets arrested, including those released before trial, the conviction rate is I think less than 50%.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

He TALKED TO THE PRESS SO OFTEN after he got arrested.

Its undeniable that Ghosn got re-arrested with bogus allegations moments before the press conference.

Even the UN experts got vocal about that fact:

UN Panel Deems Carlos Ghosn’s Arrest “Arbitrary”, Japan Objects to the Decision

https://japan-forward.com/un-panel-deems-carlos-ghosns-arrest-arbitrary-japan-objects-to-the-decision/

1 ( +3 / -2 )

He’s absolutely correct! They had to charge Kelly with something after more than three years.

0 ( +12 / -12 )

@Steve Goldun

please bear in mind that the US system is pretty damn close with @95% of all cases ending in (guilty) plea deals

It's different, in US usually prosecutor will use that to poor people who can not afford good lawyer only rely on public defendant. Also they push that plea bargain is the only good deal.

In Japan even you have good lawyer, you are limited to see your lawyer. For Ghosn and Kelly during detention they can only met with lawyer for 15 minutes per day, while prosecutor can ask you question whole day.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

US system is pretty damn close with @95% of all cases

Nor sure where you got that from.

In the USA as far as I could find Federal cases conviction rate is 90% with only 2% going to trial and the vast majority of those cases are settled out of court are tax related, ending mostly with finds and no real criminal conviction.

The rest (the vast majority of criminal cases) are done in state courts and the conviction rate is on average 70%. Canada 67~75% UK 75~85% and so on.

But then using the USA is always the go to as it is usually the outlier of all the Western countries.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

Also, the US does not have 15,000,000 prosecutors based on information I can find. There are a total of 1.3mil total attorneys for the whole US. That includes both prosecutors and defense attorneys.

He said 15,000,000 prosecutions, not “prosecutors”, big difference between the two.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

No skilled worker and no great company is ever going to Japan.

Say - Bye bye - to globalisation!! Stay in your bubble.

Yes, stay in the bubble. Times have changed. It is not a growing bubble anymore, but a declining bubble. All thanks to Japans MOJ.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

kennyGToday  06:43 pm JST

What is it really ? that the defendant's right to speak to the press? Ordinary suspects in Japan, for whatever kind of crimes, demand for he right to speak to the press? There has to be press conference anyway at somewhere like Foreign Correspondents Club?

Ler me remind you that you claimed this about Ghosn:

Really, you have done so in many occasions. You seem to have completely forgotten that you had dumped your defending layers like just garbage.

Inaka LifeToday  05:48 pm JST

Replied

Really, you have done so in many occasions.

Actually, the only time he held a press conference to defend himself the judges revoked his bail and put him back in jail for weeks. He definitely could not defend himself in the press, which was being used against him on a daily basis with ‘leaks’ from the prosecutors.

Debunking your claim so now you try and pretend it is something else that others don't have the possible media audience he has.

Grasping at straws are we.

Kenny G are you a 検察官 often just referred to as a "Kenji",?

You seem very keen of defending the government prosecutors and the Japanese legal system

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

Why? Ghosn jumped bail and is hiding from the J-judicial system yet he says whatever he wants. And the J-bashers lap it up.

Yeah and with what I know about Japan's judicial system had I been him I would run also.

I got picked up by the police from my house, brought to the police station and told to confess.

Not told to what just to admit I did it.

I was let go the next morning after it was determined the "murder" they wanted me to confess to was a suicide, a "Gaijin" found dead near my home jumped from his apartment. So naturally a dead Gaijin that looked "beaten to death" the only other Gaijin I'm the areaust be guilty!.

Learned quickly the Japanese police are not to be trusted.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

Carlos Ghosn is a criminal, and has made a second career of smearing Japan’s juridical system after escaping and deserves his sentence plus another ten years.

Carlos Ghosn has never been on trail. He is therefore not a criminal.

Carlos Ghosn has not smeared Japans judicial system. Japans judicial system has smeared itself.

Carlos Ghosn deserves a happy prosperous life ahead in whatever career he chooses.

I look forward to reading his book.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

PS. I would just love to have afternoon tea with Mr.Ghosn someday.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

bokudaMar. 5  05:42 pm JST

He TALKED TO THE PRESS SO OFTEN after he got arrested.

Its undeniable that Ghosn got re-arrested with bogus allegations moments before the press conference.

Even the UN experts got vocal about that fact:

UN Panel Deems Carlos Ghosn’s Arrest “Arbitrary”, Japan Objects to the Decision

https://japan-forward.com/un-panel-deems-carlos-ghosns-arrest-arbitrary-japan-objects-to-the-decision/

What is it with UN? accusing Japan by completely one-sided information as usual? Those accusation are being debunked in your link. You are just taking his side only.

Oh by the way, he held on line press conference too after he got arrested April 9 2019

https://www.facebook.com/GTBOARD/videos/ex-nissan-ceo-carlos-ghosn-video-press-conference-9th-of-april-2019-before-japan/2571747293150058/

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

In Japan even you have good lawyer, you are limited to see your lawyer. For Ghosn and Kelly during detention they can only met with lawyer for 15 minutes per day, while prosecutor can ask you question whole day.

In case of Ghosn, just to remind you, prosecutors spent 4 hours per day as average and Ghosn met his lawyers twice or three times per day total 2~3 hours per day. Ghosn just add up total hours without excluding when he had meals, taking shower, taking a nap, and what not, by simply counting hours since when it started until when it ended

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

This is a victory for Carlos Ghosn. He was dealt and injustice and chose to overcome it in any way he could.

He did the right thing by escaping the incredulous and corrupt Japanese justice system.

If I were in his shoes, I would have done the same.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

@Antique

Really, you have done so in many occasions.

Actually, the only time he held a press conference to defend himself the judges revoked his bail and put him back in jail for weeks. He definitely could not defend himself in the press, which was being used against him on a daily basis with ‘leaks’ from the prosecutors.

Debunking your claim so now you try and pretend it is something else that others don't have the possible media audience he has.

Not really debunking, He had talked to the press/media in several occasions in and out of Tokyo Detention Center, not to mention press conference where he invited lots of media!!

https://www.afpbb.com/articles/-/3209096

https://www.bbc.com/japanese/47066825

Do you need more? I have plenty all of which are direct interview

He TALKED TO THE PRESS SO OFTEN after he got arrested.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Ghosn’s Arrests Called ‘Extrajudicial Abuse’ by UN Panel

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-23/ghosn-s-repeated-arrests-were-extrajudicial-abuse-says-un

Definitely, there's something wrong in the j-justice.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

No skilled worker and no great company is ever going to Japan.

Say - Bye bye - to globalisation!! Stay in your bubble.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Just a wild guess, but I'm thinking Ghosn and Kelly are not going back to Japan anytime soon.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Actually, the only time he held a press conference to defend himself the judges revoked his bail and put him back in jail for weeks. He definitely could not defend himself in the press, which was being used against him on a daily basis with ‘leaks’ from the prosecutors.

What is it really ? that the defendant's right to speak to the press? Ordinary suspects in Japan, for whatever kind of crimes, demand for he right to speak to the press? There has to be press conference anyway at somewhere like Foreign Correspondents Club?

What is it really that he had to be treated as someone so special compared to those suspects in our everyday lives?

What kind of roles does the press must play at the court?

-9 ( +5 / -14 )

Ghosn should keep quiet, the day he will leave Lebanon, he will be arrested

-10 ( +6 / -16 )

justaskingToday  06:47 pm JST

@kennyG

What is it really that he had to be treated as someone so special compared to those suspects in our everyday lives?

Exactly. But keep in mind, the negative PR campaign done to him by Nissan, planned by Saikawa and Hari Nada as shown in their emails, to force public persecution - not to mention the leaking of prosecutors investigation to the media which is super ILLEGAL.

You see now how "justice" is defined in Japan? Justice in japan is never fair or just. It is always for the protection of status quo, Japan old boys club, the J-inc, the police and most importantly the prosecutors promotion

As if you worked as a prosecutor in Japan. Whatever his demanding the right to talk to the press is something too far way to understand. It's obvious that he has stupid prejudice Justice is done on Public opinion guidance. Gee, this is something media should really think twice before jumping on the scoop

-12 ( +4 / -16 )

For public figure, their image is one of their asset. It needs to be balanced, not only based on media that only get their information from prosecutor office. Maintaining image is one of necessity for those public figure.

Public figure my foot. It is not that the suspects should have right to speak to the press but that whether or not the press tries to have the chance to scoop his talking

-12 ( +4 / -16 )

"If I had stayed in Japan, I would not have been able to speak to the press, I would not have been able to defend myself,"

Really, you have done so in many occasions. You seem to have completely forgotten that you had dumped your defending layers like just garbage.

What a coward far-off barking this guy is really.

-18 ( +13 / -31 )

Who cares what he says?

-22 ( +12 / -34 )

Carlos Ghosh is a criminal, and has made a second career of smearing Japan’s juridical system after escaping and deserves his sentence plus another ten years.

-24 ( +9 / -33 )

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