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Ex-U.S. envoy Hagerty slams Japan's justice system over Nissan case

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Hagerty is spot on!!!

35 months ...smh.

Japan is has a woeful justice system.

28 ( +61 / -33 )

Go Hagerty! Absolutely spot on. Tell them straight, they hate that!

12 ( +44 / -32 )

In civilized countries like USA, super-rich white collar criminals aren't prosecuted. Japan's criminal justice system is so quaint.

-20 ( +34 / -54 )

Kelly is a hostage and his case is a farce, and I'm glad somebody of the status of a Senator and former Ambassador is pointing out the obvious.

22 ( +55 / -33 )

A Japanese government spokesman dismissed the criticism, saying the country's justice system has procedures in place to protect individuals' rights while cases are being investigated.

What rights? Please elaborate.

16 ( +46 / -30 )

Deputy Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihiko Isozaki told a press conference in Tokyo.

Great. This is shaking the tree.

Hagerty is a member of...

This transcends politics.

7 ( +24 / -17 )

I'd hardly call being out on bail barbaric treatment.

-3 ( +27 / -30 )

The farcical nature of Japan’s “justice” system isn’t news to anyone who has any knowledge of it. I’m happy to see people speaking up about it.

19 ( +50 / -31 )

Well there you go, I've always said Japan is no different to Noko and China. World is starting to awaken to this third world practice here.

8 ( +39 / -31 )

for "reasons that defy logic."

Well said.

4 ( +27 / -23 )

Most people defending Ghosn and Kelly have been beaten down and abused so much by the super-rich, they simply can't fathom such criminals actually being arrested and jailed.

They would also be the type to meekly hand over ID when Japanese cops ask to see it 'because you're a foreigner'.

-16 ( +24 / -40 )

Can't wait for the new ambassador to present his credentials and behind closed doors make a good economic threat. Let's just wait and see. Shouldn't take long.

-2 ( +19 / -21 )

Can't wait for the new ambassador to present his credentials and behind closed doors make a good economic threat.

Who do you think is going to threaten who? Japan is in a strong position to threaten USA but why would they? Even though China is a far more important trade partner, Japan still has a healthy surplus vis-a-vis USA.

3 ( +22 / -19 )

In Japan all men and women are equal under the law. Kelly is going through what other Japanese criminal suspects are going through. And if “American executives will start thinking twice about doing business in Japan ,” that’s just as well. Good riddance for vultures.

-19 ( +28 / -47 )

Can't wait for the new ambassador to present his credentials and behind closed doors make a good economic threat.

Why would he do that?

15 ( +23 / -8 )

Being incarcerated indefinitely and grilled daily without a lawyer with a goal of forcing a confession is not justice.

10 ( +32 / -22 )

and his case is a farce

If his case is a farce, why did the Securities and Exchange Commission indict him on equivalent charges in the US? Why did Kelly pay $100,000 and accept a director ban to settle those charges? Sounds like there's a case to answer.

He also said a verdict is not expected until next March for "reasons that defy logic."

There's actually a perfectly logical reason. Unlike in the United States where judges sit passively and decide cases based solely on the evidence presented, Japanese judges are free to demand additional evidence and call additional witnesses in their search for the truth. This is why extra time is always allotted before any verdict.

7 ( +28 / -21 )

It's a farce because it's the equivalent of a white-collar misdemeanor at best. It certainly is NOT the major criminal case the Japanese prosecutors are trying to paint it to be. Their lack of prosecution of the Japanese executives of Nissan who also were party to all this indicates they know as such, but are purposely going after Kelly because he's non-Japanese. Hence, farce.

2 ( +29 / -27 )

Hagerty is an idiot. Does he think that if any J-citizen was charged and tried in the U.S. under US/State laws the J-govt would make a public stink about the US justice system? Expect the Nissan Smyrna plant to move to another State.

-2 ( +31 / -33 )

We do have a third world justice system to be fair.

1 ( +24 / -23 )

Japan isn't independent from the goernment as other countries including Korea or US. So, then government decided to accuse Gorn and the related executives for some political reason. I think there is too much discretion of interpreatation of the criminal law! Also, police's hearing is to be awful because suspects are forced to confess the guilty. That's a pitty.

1 ( +16 / -15 )

As I and others pointed out with the Ghosn case, the high profile nature of these cases and the fact that the defendants are not Japanese would bring the failings and injustices inherent to the Japanese criminal system in to the light of international scrutiny. The liberal democratic world of which Japan seeks to be a part does mot hold with the barbaric and intrinsically unjust practices that go unquestioned in Japan.

This sort of high level public scrutiny and criticism is probably the only hope for reform of some of the more egregious malpractices in the judicial and criminal system

15 ( +25 / -10 )

Go Hagerty...calling it as it is.

OssanAmericaToday  06:13 pm JST - Hagerty is an idiot.....

Yeah OK, since you say so, it must be so...No doubt you are more of an expert on the matter than the ex US ambassador.

3 ( +24 / -21 )

Hagerty has it wrong.

Embassies and ambassadors act in their National Interest, not their nationals' interest.

9 ( +24 / -15 )

Hagarty is right that US executives and companies will think twice about doing business with Japan because of cases like this. The case should have been resolved years ago.

11 ( +19 / -8 )

Well to give an idea of how difficult it is to defend yourself in Japanese court, the article from FT involving Carlos Ghosn's lawyer.somes it up.

https://www.ft.com/content/48c174e7-fd31-474c-ba03-6c9a8bad8da4?fbclid=IwAR2cS3KghY12HBlivKRkn4Ro1fVqSvHQORRzAawV_op96Hk3r8OBP9DTqyk

Simple points, prosecutors don't have to divulge all the evidence including anything that could prove the person not guilty or point to someone else.

Defense lawyers are not considered part of the justice system just some private individual.

It sums up the Japanese justice system.

4 ( +18 / -14 )

"With this type of justice system, I fear that American executives will start thinking twice about doing business in Japan."

Japan is more than happy with that outcome.

2 ( +14 / -12 )

Perfectly correct, taking hostages by lying with the help of political authorities is unfair. This kind of actions must be dealt with.

6 ( +17 / -11 )

"With this type of justice system, I fear that American executives will start thinking twice about doing business in Japan."

Because they are all corrupt law breaking elites with a lot to lose if it's possible that they get treated equally under the law? (unlike in the US where the elites are untouchable)

-8 ( +7 / -15 )

I don't think any of us here have the credentials or background knowledge to decide whether Kelly and Ghosn are guilty. These top CEOs all seem to act within a grey area where stepping over a certain line while having the wrong enemies can be met with severe consequences. We do know, however, that a local CEO or politician would easily bow his way out of such as 'scandal', which would be forgotten within weeks. On the other hand, one thing I have mixed feelings about is a Republican senator calling another country's system 'rigged', 'inhumane' or 'barbaric'.

7 ( +13 / -6 )

Thanks for that enlightenment & clarity @Antiquesavings 6:45pm. Some still blame the Americans for the shortcomings of the Japanese Constitution but it appears the internal justice system truly leaves individual civil rights in a tumultuous state.

1 ( +8 / -7 )

Haggarty is correct on this. Japan needs to change its Justice system if it wants to be known internationally as a country that respects human rights. American executives do think twice about working in Japan. In fact, every foreign visitor to Japan has this in the back of their mind.

6 ( +16 / -10 )

Japan's justice system is medieval for sure, but in its own way the US system is just as, if not more, rotten.

13 ( +19 / -6 )

Well, there's a good reason why Japan ranks so poorly on human rights.

13 ( +25 / -12 )

Dejima became a tourist attraction but the ideas unfortunately lived on to the detriment of all, Japan most of all.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Slams Japans justice system….. hmmm…… what about when the US pressured Canada into detaining the top Huawei executive on super flimsy grounds? Always a good idea to start at home before going to preach abroad…..Why did JT censor this? Actually pretty scary that you censored my first post

1 ( +11 / -10 )

hmmm…… what about when the US pressured Canada into detaining the top Huawei executive on super flimsy grounds? Always a good idea to start at home before going to preach abroad…..Why did JT censor this? Actually pretty scary that you censored my first post

What about (something else) (connected to another country) gets removed because, well, you figure it out.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

"With this type of justice system, I fear that American executives will start thinking twice about doing business in Japan."

AMEN, and i hope that if they wish to do business in Japan, they hire Japanese to do it and send their own people.

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

"hostage justice system"

The problem is that none of Nissans are in jail, they got fined and walked away.

8 ( +15 / -7 )

"We believe such procedures are being implemented appropriately," Deputy Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihiko Isozaki told a press conference in Tokyo.

Just like when you call Japanese customer support about a crappy product and they tell you it is working according to specification. As if that makes it OK, lol.

4 ( +12 / -8 )

Does this mean the cops are on Nissan's payroll? How did this happen? There are lots of non Japanese who get high salaries in Japan and never hear about any getting busted for anything (well read about a Nestle VP getting busted by J. Cops for DUI). It's hate Japan first and make up facts later. The US has incarceration rate more than 10x that of Japan and Japan is the country with the problem.

-9 ( +8 / -17 )

To put someones life on hold for 35 months and another 5+ months to go while seeking a 24 month jail sentance is more than outrageous! What we have in Japan can't be called a Justice system!

9 ( +18 / -9 )

To put someones life on hold for 35 months

Ghosn was in holding for 3 years?

4 ( +10 / -6 )

He ain’t wrong!

1 ( +9 / -8 )

Ghosn was in a jail cell for 3 years? Is that the fact?

0 ( +6 / -6 )

This is clearly a case where people at Nissan collided with officialdom to try to achieve private ends.

It’s a disgrace that our taxes could be used in this way, but more than that the way in which innocent people’s lives can be turned upside down because of it.

I wonder if those colluders at Nissan today still feel that it was worth it - of course I don’t know what’s in their offshore bank accounts…

5 ( +12 / -7 )

What is so concerning is the Japanese Justice System top to the National Police Authority was leveraged to aid the sting operation to trap and assist in a boardroom coup d'etat.

From Underhand trickery highlights the deeply flawed Japanese criminal justice system

There is no escape or denial, the Japanese justice system regardless of whether it reflects Japanese values is inconsistent with international law. thus any respect for basic human rights

7 ( +13 / -6 )

This is the extent of smart commenting I've come to expect from Trump supporters. Nothing to gain, just cause damage.

1 ( +11 / -10 )

From above: "Hagarty is right that US executives and companies will think twice about doing business with Japan because of cases like this." The capitalists think twice for two minutes. Business has been good as usual during this obscene trial. The U.S. could have rounded up the usual suspects to force this trial to close. But this would have been bad for business, military relations, etc. No, like it or not, nothing is going to change no matter who says what.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

This is clearly a case where people at Nissan collided with officialdom to try to achieve private ends.

Sounds like ECC could do the same with redundant English teachers who refuse to leave. So any Gaijin a company wants gone, just call the local J cops to do the heavy work and they will be put in a holding cell for three years like they did with Gsohn. Is that correct? Nissan just told the police to get Ghson because they wanted him fired and Gosnh did not want to go?

-3 ( +8 / -11 )

The large majority of foreigners in Japan never have a problem with cops or the law if they follow the rules.

I come to Australia or USA I follow your rules and laws of the land.

Such privilege to come to another country and tell people to change their justice system because you want too.

Don't eat whale or dolphin because I don't want you to eat it Japan. We don't do it in Australia or USA. So it's barbaric.

Only in Japan some foreigners feel the need to express themselves openly: while if you take them to Russia, South Korea or China they would Keep Their Mouth Shut and play by the rules.

-12 ( +7 / -19 )

OssanAmerica, I was lectured on a basic criminal justice system.

Criminal justice system is comprised of multiple interrelated pillars, consisting of academia, law enforcement, forensic services, the judiciary, and corrections.

The maintenance or administration of what is just, especially by the impartial adjustment of conflicting claims or the assignment of merited rewards or punishments

This is the very ground floor. call it the basement.

My personal experience of J law and order, is a dedicated local policeman on a bicycle who visit my local neighborhood and advises on security/crime prevention.

He is a gem, polite, even salutes.

What is very concerning is when nationally the political necessity requires smoke and mirrors to snuff out any possibility of a full merger between a perceived lame duck Renault.

This is a red line, and ultimately sealed both Greg Kelly, and Carlos Ghosn fate.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

In late September, Tokyo prosecutors sought a two-year prison term for Kelly for helping former Nissan Chairman Ghosn to underreport his remuneration by millions of yen.

All these loud criticisms aside, I don’t hear him offering any evidence that this guy didn’t do it. That kind of info would be more helpful if he wants to speak on his behalf for a trial in Japan. All Haggerty is doing is to ensure Kelly gets a smaller, dirtier cell.

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

This is a great opportunity for Japan to begin reforming its justice system and begin emulating the better elements of western justice systems.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Japan done did it now, William Hagerty is a very very influential SENATOR, Japan product sales will soon fall sharply in America, since they they think they can do without U.S sales B.S. , lets see how sales from other M.D. C.s keep the lights on!

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

J shouldn't change their law just because an American is involve. What if it was an African would the ambassador have a say? Don't bring politics here.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

All these loud criticisms aside, I don’t hear him offering any evidence that this guy didn’t do it. That kind of info would be more helpful if he wants to speak on his behalf for a trial in Japan. All Haggerty is doing is to ensure Kelly gets a smaller, dirtier cell.

And how can he do that?

As we have seen and as the Financial Times reported on how the system is rigged against the defendant.

Prosecutors do not have to reveal anything to the defence team.

So if the prosecutor find something that could lead to a not guilty then they will bury it!

We saw this with many cases in the past one more prominent recently was the Nepalese man convicted of murder. Prosecutors his the fact his DNA was not found on the victim but some unknown DNA was.

The fact that the defence must try and do the same work the police did without resources and that the police and prosecutors are not going to tell or give what they found to the defence team means it is like climbing Everest in running shoes for the defense.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Antiquesaving,

I don’t know if the guy is guilty or not. I do think that threats and public complaining about Japan’s legal system will be met with a lot of passive aggressive resistance on the other side. Things will mysteriously move more slowly, and easy things will become more difficult. The Senator would have done better meeting with people politely and bringing some nice Tennessee whiskey.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

Hope that the world voices out this barbaric "justice" system to force it's extinction.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

This is right to the point and it is good someone with a bit of clout finally spoke up. However, if you know Japan, it was probably shown for about three seconds on TV, if it were even covered at all. Say something flattering that they believe to be true and everyone will be talking about it at work tomorrow...and the next day...and the next...

0 ( +5 / -5 )

A Japanese government spokesman dismissed the criticism, saying the country's justice system has procedures in place to protect individuals' rights while cases are being investigated.

Wha procedures? If there are any they do not semm to be adhered to.. Japanese judges are imbeciles, and don't seem to even know the meaning of the word rights.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

NIIIICE!!!! It is about time someone stood up for both executives with some real clout!!!!

Fact, prosecutors and judges have offices in the same building. Can anyone say "conflict of interest," "collusions," or a "Cabal"?

2 ( +6 / -4 )

@Farmboy

All these loud criticisms aside, I don’t hear him offering any evidence that this guy didn’t do it. That kind of info would be more helpful if he wants to speak on his behalf for a trial in Japan. All Haggerty is doing is to ensure Kelly gets a smaller, dirtier cell.

That is not his job!

Everyone is still waiting for Japan to argue that they actually broke the law. The only person/group stalling is Japan.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

Have the Japanese prosecutors even bothered to establish what dis Kelly stand to gain from "helping" Ghosn?? What was in it for him to do what they claim he did.

Also, even if what he did was wrong, how could have he possibly known it was unlawful in Japan?

Moreover, what is it so egregious about what Ghosn and him allegedly do, that they so vilified?? There was no fraud, no stealing, no robbing, no laundering... they were just making sure he was being paid as a top Executive... very doubtedly this was done WHITHOUT the knowledge of the Board of Directors, or whatever they called it at Nissan.

And has somebody EVER at any news article or news outlet shown what portion of what law they supposedly broke??? Where is their crime in the law?? And how they pretend to prove they did so??

What is so awful about what they supposedly do??

And if they did so, how could NISSAN allow it to happen for years at a time??

Again, NISSAN looking worse and worse here.

I have always liked the brand NISSAN, drove one now, have driven several before. It is by far my only, hahaha, favorite Japanese car brand.

But they just keep loosing face here. There is no crime, and nothing to hide here. Both Ghosn and Kelly are not denying they did something to provide sufficient compensation to Ghosn, with the approval of the Board.

So can there be fault in it, and how can the company have them, arrested?? Where is this bizarro world???

3 ( +7 / -4 )

"It's in our nation's interest to resolve the situation quickly," Hagerty said, adding, "With this type of justice system, I fear that American executives will start thinking twice about doing business in Japan."

But how ? How do you fix a justice system ?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

My friend was arrested on suspicion of a crime here in Japan. They held him for the maximum time of almost a month before releasing him without charge. Clearly they were hoping for a confession by simply holding him in solitary confinement.

I visited him everyday and they hated it. And I wrote him everyday and they hated that too. And at weekends, he wasn't allowed any letters or visitors. It seems the whole system is designed to make people confess to something they haven't done just to escape the solitary oppression of isolation.

Worse still, despite never being charged, my friend's detention has also affected his job opportunities as simply being arrested and held in custody in Japan is considered a stain on ones reputation.

And remember that is even when he was charged with nothing! It's incredible the Japanese don't understand how medieval, backward and unfair their so called justice system is. It stinks.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

But how ? How do you fix a justice system ?

In the U.K you have 72 hours to charge or release a suspect. Japan could introduce the same rule.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

"It's in our nation's interest to resolve the situation quickly," Hagerty said, adding, "With this type of justice system, I fear that American executives will start thinking twice about doing business in Japan."

Damn right, Hagerty!

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

@reasonandwisdomnippon.

Perhaps if you placed your soapbox at a higher elevation then your myopic comments wouldn't be so redundant.

And by the way wisdom doesn't need a reason .

That's why they call it wisdom.

Everything is useful if you know what to do with it.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

The Japanese justice system isn't really justice is it.

Think about it.

And it goes against the constitution.

No wonder so many people are leaving Japan.

And iam not talking about foreigners

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

No wonder so many people are leaving Japan.

Do you have data to back this up? I would say there aren't a whole lot of Japanese leaving Japan, but the justice system certainly isn't a factor in why some do leave. More likely reasons would be business opportunities, cheaper cost of living, relaxing environment, etc.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Justice system ,legal system do i really need to spell it out for you.

I think you answered your question.

Justice system is obviously a reason why and that's the point of the article.

Open your eyes and talk to Japanese nationals living abroad, and living here is all the data you need.

Even the Japanese princess has renounced her royal status to live abroad.

There are many Japanese that want to live abroad and start families.

How do you feel about the laws in Japan if your a foreign national?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Does anyone understand that Nissan is also a defendant in this case and has been fined at the same time as Mr. Kelly? And Mr. Kelly is not in solitary confinement like Mr. Ghosn.

As of 2020, Mr. Kelly, who says he jogs around the Imperial Palace, is currently staying with his wife, Donna, in an apartment near this popular 5-kilometer circuit.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

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