France respects Japan's judicial procedures regarding Ghosn: Le Drian

“Given that, we must also remember that the judicial system is not much different than what we see in the US or Britain, upon which the Japanese system is based.”

One could easily and with great justification go the opposite extreme and argue that any similarity is purely coincidental. Even now, 150 years after opening up, there is a huge disconnect between how law actually works as a thinly disguised instrument of constraint and the ideal, an impartial arbiter and safeguard against oppression. As the Ghosn debacle demonstrates, elite contempt for the Western view of law and a Tokugawaesque preference for dealing with things in the ‘Japanese way’ is only thinly masked.

In his Introduction to Japanese Law (1976), Noda makes the point that those tasked with drafting the new Meiji laws, using firstly the Napoleonic Code (later, German models) as their template, “had to invent terms for concepts that were totally alien to Japanese thinking.” Another has made the point that if Western democracies relied as little on law as Japan does, they would be rocked by incessant civil commotion and probably witness a collapse of the authority structure. While conversely, if Japan were to use the law as it is used in the Western democracies, and as it is supposed to be used under the Japanese constitution, the present Japanese authority structure would collapse.

Lest one forget.., Japanese authorities in cases such as this do not "arrest" without substantial evidence to begin with. This formality of arresting, in the system "allows" the investigators to "access" by court order to obtain such evidences that cannot be obtained otherwise, such as financial records and other private records from personal and related corporate entities that may further substantiate the evidence to determine the level at which the indictment may be made. Since there is no "grand jury system" and "trial by jury" as within the US, the investigators and the police are required to be extremely careful "before" the initial indictment so that the courts will not dismiss the case.

Given that, we must also remember that the judicial system is not much different than what we see in the US or Britain, upon which the Japanese system is based. The issue here is the judicial "procedure" by which this indictment is being processed. In that area, every country has different procedures to accommodate the different situation, circumstance and condition within which the case is being handled.

Here, it is a case involving many entities within an "international" environment which affects many people and countries with many varying interests and connections to the case and the person accused. And because it is high profile case involving huge sums of money, Japan must be extremely careful before discussing anything relating to the case.

Japan’s inability to read genuine international outrage will likely cost it dearly.

I read British, Australian, and US papers regularly. I sometimes look at French newspapers. British and Australian newspapers have shown little interest in Ghosn. French media seems divided. There has been some very negative reporting on Ghosn in the French news media and some satires emphasising his greed. The head of the Renault union has stated that the workers are quite happy to see him locked up.

I rather doubt that most of the world cares whether Ghosn is locked up or not.

Even in Britain, Ghosn was virtually unknown until he was arrested.

As for his wife fleeing to France, I wonder if the Japanese prosecutors deliberately let her go. By fleeing, she gave them a powerful argument for saying her husband needs to stay locked up.

The analysis of the statement by French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian is time wasted. France knows how to play hardball with Japan or any other country. The fact that it has done nothing concrete strongly suggests it is quite happy to see Ghosn in jail. If the French government was seriously concerned about Ghosn, it would call in the Japanese ambassador and give him a tongue lashing.

"france respects japan's judicial independence" french is very low to make this comment. respect system of kidnapping? system of no human right? gee!

his wife not "fled" from japan, her leaving is to protect her human right.

i would do the same thing knowing the prosecutors have too much power but

without knowledge of how things should be handled correctly.

Japan’s judicial system is the vehicle by which Carlos Ghosn is being tried. If it is unjust, then it certainly is on trial as well. All humans (as well as other animals) have a sense of fairness. When someone is accused, we expect fairness through a just judicial process, where everyone has his/her day in court. As a first world nation, Japan exhibits a third world judicial system - a holdover from the Japanese feudal period. Anyone exclaiming that Japan is sovereign miss the point that universal fairness is being ignored. You cannot have fairness when you have a prosecution that uses psychological torture techniques and endless arrests during an ongoing investigation, yet justifies these acts by claiming it has “concrete evidence” vetted by no one other than the prosecution.

Ghosn holds Brazilian, French and Lebanese nationality. WOW - Most countries will ONLY allow you to hold only “ONE ” Nationality at a time ! Europe however, plays by a different set of Standards !

 heard his interview in French the other day with via skype with the French journalist.

And I suppose if it was in Lebanese or Portuguese you would have made the same comment too right?

Le Whimps

Recommend another opinion on this as in FT ( Financial Times ) or the Asahi where some details read as:

“The FT said prosecutors had confiscated his wife's Lebanese passport in a dawn raid on their apartment in central Tokyo on Thursday morning, but did not discover her U.S. passport.

Under Japanese law, prosecutors will be able to hold Ghosn for up to 22 days without charging him. The fresh arrest opens up the possibility that he will be interrogated again without his lawyer present, as is the norm in Japan.“

Good that Carol Ghosn got away. Here is the story about it https://www.usnews.com/news/top-news/articles/2019-04-06/carlos-ghosns-wife-says-french-government-should-do-more-for-ex-nissan-boss-ft

Which procedures? Kidnapping the wife without charge? Endless detention without trial?

Wow... yeah, she did flee Japan! Congratulations, good on her! Smart lady, i'd do the same. She would NEVER get fair treatment here after all this! Cops didn't think to look for a second passport... of course not! These dudes have probably never even been outside Nippon. It's probably beyond their comprehension that there are people with dual nationalities.

The commentary has been about the shortcomings of the Japanese legal system under scrutiny. Those who wish to discuss the crime itself can of course do so but they usually respond to the discussion on the system unaware of the topic.

Respect or not, Carlos Ghosn is a person.

Japan’s inability to read genuine international outrage will likely cost it dearly. If it was simply a case of dealing with their own, a compliant media, house broken judiciary, and credulous populace, can all be relied upon to remain silent and not question the absence of a presumption of innocence and safeguards against judicial abuse of power such as habeas corpus. It’s another matter when the target is a foreign national, someone seen as a threat to be neutralized. Cutting the uppity foreigner down to size and safeguarding the nation hubris may play well to a domestic constituency. But beware, a more than proportionate blowback may well lie in wait.

This article is a total lie. This is not at all the meaning of Le Drian : although he respects sovereignty of Japan, he puts a strong emphasize on the presumption of innocence. This is incredible how Japantoday can turn around an information.

"[Confiscating his wife's phone and passport - if true as reported - might not be part of that fairness:) ]" That is because allegedly received $7m of Nissan money through Ghoshs GOOD FAITH offshore ghost company maybe, which France has proof of. Maybe.

where he bases himself for residence/tax purposes.

He only goes to France to take indecent amounts of money, get free luxury housing and free wedding venues. Then he doesn't do his taxes there. And he thinks French taxpayers should pay his lawyers or what ? The wife had the gut to flee to Paris.

@wipeout

Passport of entry is irrelevant for consular assistance.

I have two nationalities and I am registered in both consulates. My kids in three.

France sells out. Surprise surprise.

Liberté, égalité, fraternité

LIBERTY, EQUALITY, FRATERNITY

Perhaps the French Foreign Minister Mr Jean-Yves Le Drian needs a history lesson into how his country coined that phrase and pass on its meaning to Mr Kono as they both clearly have no understanding or interest in it. As I said in another thread when the chips are down you soon realise who your friends are and your country is not going to do for you what they expect from you! If I were Mr Ghosn, when this is over, He should very publicly hand back his French passport to the French Government and tell them it’s not worth the paper it’s been printed on.

Taro looks like Popeye in this photo

This is basically what he said (the interview was in French):

"I of course spoke about the the Ghosn case with my colleague," Le Drian told reporters after the end of the G7 meeting.

"I told him two things: That France respects completely the sovereignty and independence of the Japanese judiciary. And I also reminded him of our attachment to the presumption of innocence and the full rights of consular protection."

The emphasis was clearly on the second part of his comment (even though in a diplomatic manner).

@ yubaru  you have yet to actually hear HIM say anything. 

.

I heard his interview in French the other day with via skype with the French journalist.

Just rhetoric - same old, same old . . "It's a palace soup. He did nothing wrong. Japanese justice sysem is outrageous"

.

Meanwhile the growing documented evidence on his money extortion schemes via 'shell / dummy' companies needs SERIOUS explaining.

.

What's outrageous is the brazen license Ghosn took with Renault- Nissan (shareholders) assets for personal gain.

.

.

How can anyone respect judicial procedures that include relatively indefinite detentions designe to force confessions?

So Kono accepted the diplomatic remark of the French minister, and ignored the impolite part which made Kono angry.  Very diplomatic.

This.......

France respects Japan's "judicial independence" 

Then this.....

Le Drian also said France continues to uphold the principle of the presumption of innocence

Does anybody eise see a contradiction in these two statements?

Is there a reason to believe anything Kono says?

Very misleading title (and article), totally obscures the point Le Drian was trying to make. Basically said 'although we (as in france) obviously respect Japan's sovereignty & independence, we also believe in the presumption of innocence and our citizens' rights to consular assistance/protection." In other words "your country, your rules; we're watching".

People please remember this is a case about a serious alleged criminal and NOT a case about the Japanese legal system. they are two separate issues.

SERIOUS criminal? Just who is the "alleged" victim here? Nissan shareholders? You need a better dictionary.

Under reporting income?.....(allegedly)...Income not even PAID, who is the victim? Not the taxpayer, the money hasn't been paid so no taxes.

Breach of trust (allegedly)?....... If this is the guide to arresting someone, then Abe and the entire elected government of Japan should be on trial as well!

This trial is about BOTH Ghosen and the system here. I hope the former wins and the latter gets a much needed "punishment" and makeover!

"What else is he going to say, as a diplomat?! "

Agree absolutely. It's soft politics, which most Govts use all the time at outset of communications - unless a regime Govt ....or POTUS;-)

We don't it seems know the precise connotation of the conversation but, allowing that it happened, a reasonable interpretation would be that by just mentioning the case France was reconfirming that (at Govt level) they are aware of the situation, and thereby putting out a soft message for Japan to treat Ghosn fairly during his time before court hearing.

Otherwise why say anything about 'judicial independence' at this time?:)

[Confiscating his wife's phone and passport - if true as reported - might not be part of that fairness:) ]

People please remember this is a case about a serious alleged criminal and NOT a case about the Japanese legal system.

they are two separate issues.

No they are not two separate issues. Japans legal system is on trail.

People please remember this is a case about a serious alleged criminal and NOT a case about the Japanese legal system.

they are two separate issues.

Of course, Japans judicial system has to be respected, but I don't think that many are very happy with it.

Officially, everyone must say the politically correct statement. Un-Officially, we all know what is going on.

was quoted by a Japanese Foreign Ministry official as saying in a bilateral meeting with Kono on the fringe of the Group of Seven gathering in western France that France respects Japan's "judicial independence"

Two points.

First, this quote is provided by the Japanese Gaimusho, so clearly we have no idea what exactly Le Drian said. Was it in French? English? Was this the actual intent of what Le Drian said? We don't know for sure, we only have what the Gaimusho official said.

Second, let's assume Le Drian said this. So what? What else is he going to say, as a diplomat?! "Hey, Taro, by the way, with regards to Ghosn's rearrest and Japan's legal system, we don't have any respect for it and think it is a complete setup"?!?! Not exactly something he could or would say, particularly as any attempt by France to convey any official message on this would not be done in this manner / forum.

The French minister was quoted by a Japanese Foreign Ministry official as saying in a bilateral meeting with Kono on the fringe of the Group of Seven gathering in western France that France respects Japan's "judicial independence" in a reference to Ghosn's re-arrest Thursday on a fresh charge and the court's approval of his detention less than a month after his release on bail.

Fitting that they put "judicial independence" in quotations. LOL

If Mr Ghosn is as innocent as he insists he is, he surely hasn't got much to worry about. The supposedly trumped up allegations and charges against him will all collapse when his defence team gets into action and demolishes the prosecution. Mr Ghosn will emerge as with his reputation and honor as pure as the driven snow.

However Ghosn from the get-go is his worst enemy by grandstanding, voraciously insisting on his innocence , all the while concrete evidence is mounting to demonstrate otherwise.

You over-exaggerate his remarks taken from the media reports, and not to mention you have yet to actually hear HIM say anything. Not to mention as well that he has done nothing of what you are creating in your imagination, since his arrest.

You imagine he is doing these things, yet take away a few weeks, the man has been in detention since last year!

In your rush to believe EVERYTHING you read in the press that along with your creative imagination, you have already lynched him.

I hope you are NEVER in the position one say of being accused of something, and having someone like yourself screaming for your demise!

@ Yubaru

.

Yes. You are correct.

Absolutely.

Give him a transparent and just trial in Japan - ( and, likely, later in France).

Of course.

No argument

.

However Ghosn from the get-go is his worst enemy by grandstanding, voraciously insisting on his innocence , all the while concrete evidence is mounting to demonstrate otherwise.

.

He has lost credibility with many.

.

Kelly & his (by far unmatched) eminent layer have a wiser and ultimately and more effective strategy.

Respects and agrees with are different.

France has cooled towards Ghosn. There's a documented money trail Renault has forwarded to prosecutors in France.. .

.

.

.

.

.This may be true, yet

.

.

.

.

.

.Give him his day in court before lynching him!

"judicial independence"  ? What beautiful words, hopefully I am not dreaming.

He's got two countries going after him, one of which is his own country forsaking him. That should say something, some people here. And that country is the majority shareholder of the company he headed no less.

.

Actually, regardless of whether any other country' respects the system - Japan is sovereign and it's institutions and infrastructures have their own viability and authority.

.

France recognizes that.

.

France has cooled towards Ghosn. There's a documented money trail Renault has forwarded to prosecutors in France.. .

.

.

.

He must be one of five people in the world that actually respects Japan's judicial procedures into this whole sordid affair.

Free Ghosn!