crime

Ghosn's lawyer says bail very difficult before trial

42 Comments
By Kazuhiro Nogi

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100,000 yen that the Japanese will yet do another stupid thing in this case to make themselves look back wards and Soviet-like. Or maybe they should import some kangaroos and just call it what it is. Can't have the facts coming to light now can we?

17 ( +23 / -6 )

Good luck Carlos. I’m with you until proven guilty.

23 ( +28 / -5 )

So if he is proven innocent in the trial is he up for any compensation for being detained in solitary for (probably) up to 12 months? Seems insane this kind of thing can happen in a "modern" democracy.

Surely taking his passport(s) off him will ensure sufficient mitigation of any supposed flight risk. It's not like every single border control officer in Japan doesn't know exactly what he looks like.

18 ( +23 / -5 )

One feature of the Japanese legal system which differs from some western systems, most notably the US, is that Carlos will be entitled to claim compensation for every day spent in pre-trial detention if he's eventually acquitted. Unfortunately the law sets a daily limit and it's only ¥12,500 (or it could be a bit more if it's been raised in recent years).

9 ( +10 / -1 )

I'm curious about the way they tricked him into coming here. If they (the prosecutors) had evidence of financial wrongdoing (which they evidently do not), shouldn't they have requested an extradition warrant?

7 ( +10 / -3 )

His case brought my PTSD back up in full force. I was also an executive, arrested for 40 lousy vidocin pills which I had no idea were illegal in Japan. My business, worth millions after I saved it from bankruptcy, was stolen out from under me by a Japan congressman, and I was in detention center...treated exactly like Mr. Ghosn, but I thumb printed my print to the Japanese documents which I had no idea as to what they said. This happened to me in 2012. It personally cost me $600,000 plus my business worth several millions! I got out on $100,000 bail, went to court 3 times, was found guilty by the media while I was still in detention center, had 4 years of probation, and life finally returned to normal....minus a paycheck, minus a business, and minus 600,000 USD! It was hell! I wore the same plastic sandals as Mr. Ghosn, handcuffs, and ropes around my waist which they held on to. I felt like a dog on a leash! Baths twice a week, bored too death, horrible hard plastic mat to sit on all day long, wearing their horrible clothes, allowed no visitors except my lawyers at night...not during questioning by detectives for hours everyday! I would have admitted to killing JFK if they wanted me to! I hung myself. The translator was horrible in interrogations and in court. I even spoke up in court cause I understood enough Japanese to know the translator was wrong. The judge told my defense lawyers to keep their client quiet! I hope to right the wrongs in my case, thanks to Mr. Ghosn and Mr. Kelly. I am also from Tennessee. I love Japan deeply but the criminal justice system is very sad. I too had never been in any trouble in my life....40 lousy Vicodin (codeine) pills and codeine is legal here! It still blows my mind and really blew my bank account! I’m still trying to recover 6 years later! Losing my business was absolutely so wrong! I got paid nothing for it either! Very painful in so many ways! I also lost my father. He died suddenly in the middle of this mess! He was my biggest supporter! Huge pains! Huge losses! I’m not a criminal and never have been in my life!

30 ( +35 / -5 )

No family visits, that's disgraceful. One could say cruel and unusual. Definitely a legal system more in tune with a dictatorship than a 21st century democracy.

16 ( +19 / -3 )

I agree that the legal system in japan is dated but Im also interested in his case, like whats his defense against the charges he falsified his income and the claims against Nissan

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Free Ghosn!

14 ( +18 / -4 )

"it could take six months before his case reaches court"

Dat soon? ( Datsun )

Seriously, though what's up with that! This is really starting to piss me off to no end!

14 ( +16 / -2 )

Idiot lawyer.. Should go to international court..

0 ( +5 / -5 )

What part of the Constitution the Americans wrote for us post WW2 is being used in the trial exactly??

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Now, either Carlos goes on bail or no further foreign investments will come into Japan . Japan must be boycotted for the way they treat Carlos as every other foreign can suffer the same fate. In this case, it is very clear that Carlos presented his case in court as reported this afternoon. Who is in the gang of corrupted bad Japanese prosecutors and poor hearted Japanese in Nissan inc ???. Carlos statement was clear enough in black & white. Pls tell me, do the Japanese prosecutors have interepetors or does Nissan Japan understand even simple English ???. What a shameful game. Poor minded Japanese people, admit yr mistakes and save us , the tax paying public time & money. Surely, yr family and even children or grand children are ashamed of U. What a thick thick skin u shameful people have.

14 ( +18 / -4 )

Very brutal from a a 1st world country, I used to think "this is Japan" but now I think Japan needs to wake up and not be different because they can.

16 ( +19 / -3 )

Gotta wonder if there is any connection between the documents that Ghosn's family removed from his apartment in Brazil - and the claims by Nissan executives that Ghosn did not have permission to do XYZ. It would be fun to see signed documentation of them agreeing to exactly what they are accusing of him doing on his own, without permission.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Whichever way Carlos case goes, it will be life & death for Japan & Nissan Inc. If the Japanese lawyers do not get Carlos out on bail................it shows how truly is the Japanese ways of treating foreign people. All the tatemae or sweet talk will not save Japan & Nissan inc. Cars will not sell, anything made in Japan will not sell. why not ???.This is called ...........get a small man to do a big man job, big mistake. Everyone in the world is watching Japan. Does the government wants to take side with a small mean-hearted back-stabbing Japanese man who was in the press with a red flower on his coat ???. If they do, then the price is too bad, huge hole that no public relations or advertising can solved.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

how Is this even called a “justice” system.

this is the sort of crap we expect from North Korea or China.

10 ( +15 / -5 )

Wow , such negativity from the defense team, where is the Japanese fighting spirit in this lawyer and his team. , he sounds like he's lost the case already. But then, my memory failed me again ,this is Japan, defense lawyers don't want to upset the prosecution lawyers or the judges, in case it damages their own personal chances of one day becoming a prosecutor or a judge. Carlos, it's not a legal team you need to defend you, a ju ju witch doctor with all his good luck charms has more of a chance. Welcome to Japan.

8 ( +13 / -5 )

This is simply unacceptable. I think they are just holding Carlos because they can. And they know he will win the case if it goes to trial because he is pleading not guilty. So this is kind of already a jail sentence without trial. Japan has no respect for human rights at all. In Japan, you're guilty until proven innocent.

15 ( +19 / -4 )

Th prosecutors know accounts were approved by Japanese executives, so does Saikawa. How come not a single Japanese executive is being held on the same charges?

Oh... that'll be because there is no falsified accounts!

Seriously, this is a horse and pony show being run by kangaroos. Tom Clancy novels aren't as intriguing as this farcical drama!

12 ( +16 / -4 )

@Judy Itoh

His case brought my PTSD back up in full force. I was also an executive, arrested for 40 lousy vidocin pills which I had no idea were illegal in Japan.

That's your own fault then. Ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it. Any person that travels abroad with half a brain cell should research things, especially drugs whether they are legal for sale in said country or not. Importing them is usually a felony. I literally have zero pity for you.

Regardless, this thread is about Ghosn and what people who cry about the possibility of no bail for 6 months fail to realize, is that the justice system has other things to do in the meantime. Ghosn will have to wait his turn, like all the other criminals waiting their turn for trial.

The judge today told him he is arrested and detained because he poses a flight risk. This is the same everywhere in the world. America does it, Canada does it, Britain does it.

-15 ( +3 / -18 )

Japan is showing its self to be a repressive and unjust state, it’s legal processes on a par with some of the most despicable and morally corrupt regimes around the world.

For the system to permit the long term incarceration of the innocent (until proven guilty) is morally repugnant, tothen game the system by repeatedly bringing forward charges just as the time runs out so as to further extend the incarceration is worthy of the most loathsome dictatorships. There is no morally acceptable justification for imprisoning him, he can still be investigated and brought back for further questioning if necessary while out on bail.

The fact that the system does not permit his lawyer to be present highlights the reliance on unsound “pressured” or fraudulent (you didn’t understand what you were signing) confessions.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

@Judy Itoh... it deeply saddened me to hear your story! Japan’s legal system is really barbaric and human rights violations in full force. I’m just shocked that the world doesn’t focus too deeply on it! Just because it’s Japan they get a pass! If the same was done in China, Korea or some Middle Eastern country then the world leaders such as America and UK would have been in up and arms taking the issue to heart. The United Nations would also be saying a lot! But just because it’s Japan they seem to play the sympathy card and always get a pass!

@ksteer and others who gave Judy a — for her comments : someday you might be in a similar situation in Japan when you will be arrested for something that you feel was innocent then you will encounter the same treatment as Judy and Goshan or even worst treatment. Then I’d like to see you comment on this barbaric detention system in Japan! Remember not to throw stones at others house when you live in a glass house!

7 ( +11 / -4 )

The judge today told him he is arrested and detained because he poses a flight risk. This is the same everywhere in the world. America does it, Canada does it, Britain does it.

Only after a person has been formally charged. That's a big difference.

9 ( +12 / -3 )

JAPAN is a Joke now, me and my friends laugh about how this justice system works, and thats whats funny their system only works if your JAPANESE.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Hmm... Ghosn’s lawyer, signaling defeat?

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

@ Judy Itoh, the US Military has oxycodone, and prescribes it to people here in JAPAN. Imagine that, an illegal drug being dispensed by the US military!

3 ( +4 / -1 )

I'm curious about the way they tricked him into coming here. If they (the prosecutors) had evidence of financial wrongdoing (which they evidently do not), shouldn't they have requested an extradition warrant?

An explanation could be the last chapter of he book "The Enigma of Japanese Power" (Karal Van Wolferen 1989).

The chapter is entitled "in the world but not of it".

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Crazy to think you can spend a year in jail while going through the whole process of being found not guilty. Then what, they pay you 12500 yen per day you were jailed and off you go with a pat on the head?

7 ( +8 / -1 )

This will end the Japanese pre-trial detention system as it has existed to this point. Ghosn's biggest contribution to Japanese society may be one he would never in a million years have envisioned.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

@ expat....

unfortunately this won't end anything.

Japanese Big Business is quite prepared to take a loss in court, in the hope that a rival will be financially or spiritually starved out of the contest and withdraw before the conclusion.

People need to understand this.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

I think this "detention" period gives Nissan more time to destroy any evidence which might help Ghosn..... Nissan did not want to allow Ghosn's family access to his apartment, which is owned by Nissan, in Rio de Janeiro. Nissan says its due to "cash and art" that Ghosn has hidden there, but what if it is documents that might incriminate Nissan and exonerate Ghosn. This detention is excessive..... they should put him under house arrest and take away his passport.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Ghosn was indicted on Dec 10 & Dec 21 for understating remuneration for two periods from 2010 -2015 and from 2018 -2018 respectively .

He was rearrested on Dec 21 for transferring personal investment losses worth around 1.8 billion to Nissan in 2008.

Ghosn's attempt to refute the first charges ( u*nderstating of remuneration)* is categorically unconvincing. Re using Nissan money to cover personal losses: This is an egregious BREACH of TRUST and carries with it criminal penalty for sure. The fact that Ghosn** admitted doing this **and then argues it was not an a breach because he put the money back is laughable.. (*If he really thinks a CEO has the liberty to access company funds for personal investments, losses, etc - it demonstrates that he should not have been in that position of trust as CEO to begin with.*) If any of us, took money -- **without consent from the ALL required & appropriate authorities **-- , from our place of employ to pay a debt -* although we returned it *- we would be in serious trouble.

The fact that Nissan did not incur any "damage" is completely beside the point.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

SaikoPhysco . Nissan did not want to allow Ghosn's family access to his apartment,

No that is not correct.

The Brazilian court allowed Ghosn's daughter to remove all items in the 2 large safes ( in the rio apartment) - including what appeared to be large envelopes with business-related documents inside.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

i wish Brazil could learn,severe laws,will make this land of corruption a land of honest people,Japan well done,your laws make your country a better place.Loose laws on Corruption lead to robbery, robbery lead drug trafficking,street robbery etc,loose laws is why the gangs lead Brazil.And again no surprise this site is full of corruption PRAISES ,so sad to read,but Japan justice is just nice to see for people like us that come from the corruption,robbery land!!

0 ( +2 / -2 )

That's your own fault then. Ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it. Any person that travels abroad with half a brain cell should research things, especially drugs whether they are legal for sale in said country or not. Importing them is usually a felony. I literally have zero pity for you.

Regardless, this thread is about Ghosn and what people who cry about the possibility of no bail for 6 months fail to realize, is that the justice system has other things to do in the meantime. Ghosn will have to wait his turn, like all the other criminals waiting their turn for trial.

The judge today told him he is arrested and detained because he poses a flight risk. This is the same everywhere in the world. America does it, Canada does it, Britain does it.

The only normal person informed person here,people of JT,make see that is why internet create monsters,we get so scary and so sad,people here give a bad name for foreigners and that feel people that obey and respect laws and justice and are well informed.Again we get more sad to read comments here.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Huh?

The justice system is busy with other things... like putting innocent people in jail without trial. No time to give those people due process?

That’s just nonsense.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

at least six months for the first trial? he lost more than 10 kg during nov to now. by the first trial may be a

malfunction ghosn will show in court and that is if he can survive for the mental and physical abuse.

please stay strong! beat the corrupted system up.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Ak jjenner:

Don't need the Japanese criminal system to combat corruption. Sweden, new zealand, Denmark, Switzerland, and Finland are in the top 10 of least corrupt govts. Japan is number 20.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

It will be "very difficult" to win bail for former Nissan chief Carlos Ghosn before trial and it could take six months before his case reaches court, his lawyer said Tuesday.

So he already under custody for almost two months, and he will be under additional custody for six months waiting for his case reaches court. That will be almost eight months. After that there will be lengthy trial process. It can take years since prosecutors will always try to appeal, for example in Nagura Masahiro case, from time he was being arrested until he got acquittals it took him three years.

So it can be three to four years, by that time probably Nissan-Renault already have someone who replaced Ghosn. Even he innocent, damage already made, he won't be able to continue life as he used to be and all credit goes to Saikawa.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Semper,

You really need to read Ghosn's statement. Maybe you wouldn't believe it, but posting comments without having read it is just a waste of time. You are just guessing about what he said, when the rest of us know because we read it.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@semperfi

SaikoPhysco . Nissan did not want to allow Ghosn's family access to his apartment,

No that is not correct.

Sorry, you're wrong and SaikoPhsyco is correct. Nissan tried to bar Ghosn's family from entering the apartment. The Brazilian court ruled to allow access but Nissan even appealed that to a higher court! The higher court ruled in favor of Ghosn and his family was able to enter the apartment. It certainly seems plausible that they were able to remove Ghosn's things before Nissan was able to destroy evidence in favor of Ghosn. I hope so!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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