crime

Greek court acquits Japanese ex-diplomat for murdering daughter; jails wife

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Wow. It appears that there was a genuine quest for truth and justice in this case.

I'd like to know a few more details. Like where was the husband at the time of his daughter's death? Did he suspect his wife at all?

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How does one determine a cut in the wrist was not self-inflicted? I can't think of a direction I could not cut my own wrist! And just saying the cut was made after death is not quite enough. How long after death? I think it would be near impossible to determine if a cut were made minutes before or after death. The amount of blood might give you a solid clue, but as this woman was wrapped in sheets, obviously the blood evidence was tampered with and probably cleaned up.

Remember, the husband also claimed his daughter committed suicide, so what is up with that? By what evidence did they determine it was the wife and not the husband? Or a complete stranger? What little evidence this article presents is the least likely to explain the outcome of the case!

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http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2008/09/08/2008-09-08_greece_japanese_exdiplomat_chargedwith.html

The above link claims she was 36 and her name was Amphithea. Who knows what to believe!

It turns out her lover dropped her at her parents on a Tuesday and it was him who reported her missing on a Thursday. She was found wrapped in sheets at the parents' home. She had bruises on her face and the mother said she died after falling from the stairs, and that is not consistent with suffocation unless the fall squashed your larynx.

The way I see it, a whole bunch of things are possible, but if the mother is telling the truth she is being burned for not reporting the incident immeadiately. And who cut the daughter's wrist? If you do that to fake a suicide, who is then going to say she fell down the stairs????

Unlike Yabits I am not sure this case was properly investigated at all!

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HeyLars: Wounds bleed differently after the heart stops pumping blood. So cuts and even bruises look completely different if they are inflicted after death. There are other issues as well, for instance as the body cools the tissues react differently to the cuts. Also, with respect the the angle of the cuts, by looking at the tissues you can determine which direction the blade was travelling and also the angle of the blade (not just the angle of the cut). So for instance, while it is not impossible for someone to cut their wrists with the blade angling so the edge is up towards the fingertips, it's kind of awkward and nobody would really do it that way.

As you mentioned, the details in the press are not enough to know whether or not the evidence was good. But a proper investigation can determine a surprising amount of evidence which can be used to build a case.

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After the heart stops beating, you don't bleed at all other than incidental blood near the cut. Someone trying to commit suicide by slashing their wrist is going to have blood all over their arm and hand as it bleeds out. A "clean" slash is going to raise all sorts of red flags with investigators.

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As a close friend of Amphithea (Fifi as we knew her), it is sad and disrespectful towards her that this sort of speculation is being aired here. I am not going to go into details in public, but to those of us who knew her and the relationship she had with her mother, nobody had any doubt from the start that the mother was the guilty party. Just for the record, her father had been bed ridden for some time and her LOVING partner (and father of their daughter) had gone through hell with the mother for months. God rest you Fifi, you were a lovely friend and we miss you.

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Maybe no blood came out of the wrist cut.

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How does one determine a cut in the wrist was not self-inflicted? I can't think of a direction I could not cut my own wrist! And just saying the cut was made after death is not quite enough. How long after death? I think it would be near impossible to determine if a cut were made minutes before or after death

Dude, don't you ever watch CSI? a self inflicted wound on the wrist would generally be away from the thumb, as the other hand holding the blade would be more comfortable that way.

Determining how much clotting there is around the wound, they can tell how long someone has been dead. Dead blood doesn't pump out, and would leave a different clotting signature.

At least that's what Horatio would say.

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This is one for the ages. Where so many before have got it wrong. The home of democracy gets it right. In the rest of the world 99 times out of 100 if you are a male you will be found guilty. A lot to learn from this case. For the legal profession especially. Its set a new benchmark, an new precedent.

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clashmach, I am sorry for your loss and thank you for the character details. None if this is disrespectful to Amphithea. You may not like to hear about it, and so it may feel disrespectful to you. But since the point is that we want justice for her that can only be had by understanding the details of her death, I think this is the height of respect.

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bamboohat, I do watch CSI sometimes, but some people can be accused of watching it too much!

A self inflicted wound would be away from the thumb? Well, if it were on the arm, away from the thumb accounts for about 90 degrees of cutting! And I assure you that I could accomplish cuts on any of that quarter quadrant even in the opposite direction! I can hold a knife backhand you know! I do realize what is more typical, but not everybody and not every situation is typical. And the typical self inflicted suicidal cut to the wrist is parallel to the thumb anyway. Those in the know go perpendicular. So I have no idea where this "away from the thumb" idea comes from.

As for dead blood, yes I accounted for that. It was likely cleaned up. The body was tampered with and wrapped in sheets if you remember. And my problem that no estimate of exactly when the cuts were inflicted were given. Just saying "post-mortem" is not enough. It is very difficult to determine if a cut from immediately before or after death if the body has been tampered with. And just saying "clotting signature" is not very convincing. I don't even think its a real term of the field. "Forensic signature of clotting" might be though, but I can't find anything about clotting that helps to separate cuts immediately before or after death.

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So I have no idea where this "away from the thumb" idea comes from.

You generally start near your thumb, and either down, along the veins, towards, you or across perpendicular to the veins. Either way the cut starts near the thumb and goes out from there. Since the thumb is only one point, you can pretty much cut any direction starting from there. Hold a pretend knife and cut at your wrists to see what I'm talking about.

If the cuts were a significant time after death (the news is not reporting the lag between the death and the cut, but I'll bet the police know) then they blood wouldn't have clotted at all around the area of the cut.

I'm sure any good coroner worth his or her salt has seen enough suicide wounds and knew this one was different than all the rest.

News reports tend to dumb down the specifics to keep people from clicking off to another site.

Of course, I really have no idea what I'm talking about. I came a little late to this party.

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It sounds like the Greek justice system works better than say Japan's doesn't it?

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usaexpat, you wouldn't be able to make a judgement like that unless there was a case in Japan with the exact same circumstances/evidence and they came up with a different verdict.

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@heylars.........go and study physiology for 5 years. O if u cant pretend to cut your wrists. Actually u are right. All angles are possible.I just tried.............pretend with a chop stick. Ok man the angle is in conclusive. I give u that.

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Poor Japanese men they deserve so much more than the pathetic excuses that try and pass for women here They are not real women. Just little girls .. Russia is that way........Phillipines is that way.

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bamboohat, why are you telling me about cuts significantly after death? My question was about cuts immediately before or after death. Do you know what "immediately" means?

And that was a really roundabout way of admitting that a cut in any direction is possible. Is it so hard to admit that someone is right?

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