crime

JAL pilot arrested for taking up-skirt photos at train station

89 Comments

A 44-year-old Japan Air Lines pilot has been arrested for allegedly taking photos up the skirt of a woman on a train platform in Tokyo, police said Wednesday. The man is accused of having used a portable media player to take photos of a 25-year-old office worker's underwear at JR Kamata Station last Sunday night.

According to a TBS report, the man was sent to the prosecutor on Monday, but was later released. He was quoted by police as saying that he had seen a program about taking up-skirt photos on TV a few days earlier, and he wondered if he could do it too.

The news comes just days after another JAL pilot was arrested in Chiba for trying to steal the underwear of a 22-year-old woman from her home. He was caught prowling around naked on her balcony.

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89 Comments
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He was caught prowling around naked on her balcony.

Maybe he thought he was wearing an invisibility cloak or something, like Cartman in "Fun with Weapons."

3 ( +6 / -3 )

As a private pilot myself,I am ashamed of these fellow airmen behavior... Working at JAL must be really stressful if these guys resort to such things...

The saddest part is that pilots usually have no problems into attracting the opposite sex, but these two were obviously not interested into real women, but only their underwear...

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Working at JAL must be really stressful if these guys resort to such things...

so they may be interested in 'ANA?'

1 ( +5 / -4 )

@ebisen

stress from the needs to see their female colleagues maybe. profession doesn't cure sexual problem. weird thing is they still resort to the cheap style.

@some14some

so they may be interested in 'ANA?'

just don't have them work with JR

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Giving the JAL cockpit a fresh nuance

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Thank goodness he was caught! I am sure we all feel safe to walk the streets now!

Now, how about some details? How far away from her was he? What was the length of her skirt?

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Shimofusa Approach: Juliet Lima69 - You are below your assigned altitude. Climb and maintain a non-perverted altitude.

Obviously these sicko pilots need to turn on their GPWS cause they are about to crash hard. It comes at a time when JAL is trying to take-off again too. We can definitely expect some delays cause the pilots got their cameras out for a VFR around some OLs.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

What's sad is that this doesn't even feel newsworthy anymore. After news stories about up-skirt photos taken by uni professors, policemen, and TV personalities, I guess I'm jaded.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Japanese men seem to be obsessed with skirts and underwear.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

As I prefer short skirts to show my legs, I really do not mind guys and girls looking. If I caught someone taking an up-skirt picture, I would ask for a copy. :-)

19 ( +22 / -5 )

As I prefer short skirts to show my legs, I really do not mind guys and girls looking. If I caught someone taking an up-skirt picture, I would ask for a copy. :-)

Are you really a girl?

0 ( +6 / -5 )

LOL..

0 ( +2 / -2 )

A copy cat, i saw the program he mentions the other night, it was about how the cops stake out these guys at stations .

Anywy this guy was caught but we need to see the proof, so show us the pics or it didnt happen.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

JAL can give copies of photos and underwear as a special incentive to own pilots. How can we travel such a plane when the pilot`s mind is full of ladies under wear and photos!!. Need to make moral code for every professionals. TV and media should take own steps to protect the life of Japanese people.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I think the naked guy caught stealing knickers on a girls balcony is a much more interesting story than a dressed man taking a private snapshot.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Does anyone know the Japanese law regarding this? In Australia, you are allowed to photograph anyone over 18 in a public area.

In Japan, if I take a panorama shot at a festival and by chance a womans underwear is showing in the picture, have I broken the law?

If I take photos at the beach and women in bikinis are in the frame, can I be arrested?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Oh dear me, tut tut, and with a portable media player

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Why on earth would they have such a program on TV???

Dent, I highly doubt up-skirt shots are okay in Oz..

With regards to bikinis and whatnot, probably safe but why not ask before?? I know I have had snaps taken of me and I was pissed. Oddest one I had was a guy who obviously had a foot festish and asked to take pics of my feet. He showed me all his pics of various feet. Needless to say, i didn't say yes. Creepy.

JapanGal, I find it sad that you would be happy to have some perv take an up skirt snap.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

DentShop - I doubt you won't be charged with something in Australia if getting caught while purposefully placing a camera under a woman's skirt and taking a picture of whatever is there... It is at least a public nuisance... If you take a panorama shot and somebody's underwear is showing (by chance, no purpose provable) you did not create any nuisance now, did you? This can easily happen at stadiums, sport halls, etc, and nobody really cares about. If you use a 800mm zoom and your camera is full of girls' underwear shots, it's a bit different, don't you think?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

He was quoted by police as saying that he had seen a program about taking up-skirt photos on TV a few days earlier, and he wondered if he could do it too.

monkey see, monkey do.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

What a shame to the so called today's advanced society! Unless spiritual education is included in today's education system, there can not be spiritual transformation in the society. Spiritual transformation is most essential in today's society for social harmony, order and morality. Unfortunately, today's educationists/governments are not realizing the fact. Therefore, the society is trying to move ahead like a lame person, who definitely meets several accidents on the way and many of them would be very dangerous indeed.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

If you use a 800mm zoom and your camera is full of girls' underwear shots, it's a bit different, don't you think?

Just wondering where the line is drawn. Could the pilot make the argument that he accidentally took the photo? We have all pressed the camera button at the wrong time before, just this time it was in a skirt direction? Just asking....

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Could the pilot make the argument that he accidentally took the photo?

Haha - He was caught with his hand down her skirt, holding a camera and taking pictures... That argument is like a murderer saying: I accidentally stabbed somebody 15 times...

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Someone who asks such a question is guilty. If you are in Japan, then you broke the law, even if it if a panorama shot. You should delete now, or confess

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

He was caught with his hand down her skirt

You must have read a different article to the one I did. Do you have a link to that article?

As for your murder argument, it is hardly apt. Holding a camera and holding an illegal weapon is not the same.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Better let them get back to photographing flight attendants in the cockpit, seems less troublesome...

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Back at the police station - I bet the police pass the images around and all of the male police have a good old laugh behind closed doors.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

LMFAO! Now, THAT is funny. A pilot running around naked trying to steal underwear!! Here is a guy who could probably JUSt wear the uniform and get lots of girls. But he choses to take off the uniform and run around naked. What a knucklehead.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

But I do feel sorry for the women in this case. What an insensitive jerk.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

I think he is getting into fancy thinking, even if he see her naked butt, so what his he getting out of it. People is making a ant hill out of a mole hole. And I think someone should embarace him and let him know what he is doing is foolishness. I once saw a man, at 145 St New York city took out is private and show it to a woman, a well dress African American woman. Do you know what she did and I thought her words where appropriate for that situation. And enough to send this pervert running like hell where on his heels. Here is her quote "If I had that, I would be ashame to show it in public" the man quickly put is private back in and ran out of the subways so fast as if he had seen a ghost. At that moment I chuckled to myself, and thought only an experience woman would respond in that way.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Yesterday JAL is awarded safest airline in Asia.... I guess one of the categories wasn't sanity of pilots.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Guess the JAL pilot didn't get the news about the Cathay pilot - or else he thought the offense of voyeurism wasn't as serious.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Wonder if they caught him in the act. I saw the program too and the undercover police must have a conclusive evidence before they make arrest. On one instance, they were following a suspect on the escalator who seem to have his phone on video mode, placed on his lap obviously taking a shot at the lady in front of him. They say the "angle" at which the phone was pointed at isn`t conclusive enough to arrest him so they didnt do anything. Luckily they got the suspect on the act few days later.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

If one guy does it it's called aberration, if too many it's called national culture. (note the majority of the perpetrators are never caught)

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Hey ladies, just because a man is tall, dark?? handsome in a pilot suit does not mean he 100% time just thinking about airplanes, the sky, how to get from one city to another, at the end of the day, men are men, no matter if they are running around naked on your balcony or say a priest out fit, so let us all learn a lesson, if you do not want us to look at your undies, do not wear skirts that are way too short and are shouting, HEY GUYS!! LOOK at my beaver, shaved beaver etc..just good old common sense right?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Caught for taking upskirt pics - congratulations , you have just passed the public service entrance test... What is it with all these guys in respectable jobs getting caught doing this - cops,teachers,government officials, pilots... Only in Japan

0 ( +0 / -0 )

KuYaniSep. 01, 2011 - 10:31AM JST

Nice story. But it seems society is somehow against women having the skills to protect themselves, and that includes their psyche.

We are going to read about upskirt arrests over and over and over, but people for some reason refuse to think they may have the wrong end of the stick. There is a reason JapanGal has so many thumbs up. Hyper sensitive women who do nothing to guard themselves are their own problem, not ours.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Sorry, but to me, this is a sickness! What the heck do they expect to see? I have seen it happen four or five times at stations around Tokyo. Twice I stopped the losers and it was me that got into trouble. But, the thing is, if I have seen it happen so many times in the few times I have been in transit, how often is it happening?

1 ( +4 / -3 )

if you do not want us to look at your undies, do not wear skirts that are way too short and are shouting,

What makes you think they don't want? It's an evergreen topic on this discussion board. Yet, I would say looking up under the mini skirts is natural and understandable but not a very nice thing to do, taking photos is a crime and might only be acceptable after having the girl's permission but even in that case not at public places.

For girls who feel offended by being photographed or insulted in any other way.

I understand you are proud of your body, (mostly only your legs and bum) want to be sexy and play around but my sober advice: don't wave the cape in front of the bull's eyes unless you are a pro bullfighter and prepared for the consequences.

@Oracle

There is a reason JapanGal has so many thumbs up.

And that's why you won't. Trying to make sense over and over again? Otherwise I'm with you.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

They need to keep this bloke on the ground permanently. But regarding the question of photos at the beach, I know bloggers and hobbyists who take photos of people around town on the street, even of minors, apparently without any problem. However, I would be very careful. If a woman takes offence, if she thinks the photographer has some inappropriate motives and tells the cops, if they look at the shot and think the photographer was aiming too far south, or caught a centimetre of her bra strap showing, I do not think it would prove an enjoyable experience for the photographer. You're not guilty until proven innocent here, you're simply guilty when the cops say you are. If you're taking photos on the beach, I would make sure that somebody you know is in them.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I think it's by and large an education problem in Japan. Teach women to have confidence and take swift, legal action and the number of chikan cases, upskirt photos, underwear theft and all the other typical Japanese pervert cases will decrease sharply.

These articles appear so often only because the silent majority accepts this behaviour. Whenever I hear someone say that women are to blame for sexual harassment, I wonder if these people have been perpetrators themselves or just don't have the courage, because they are afraid of being caught.

Japanese society is openly sexist. And worse yet, women don't try to change it, because they largely accept it as unavoidable. I want to read news about chikan/hentai who had been slapped/kicked in the crotch/beaten up by his victim and her (or his) friends. Or reverse: photographed by the victim and directly mailed to the police.

Japanese women don't encourage sexual harassment by their childlike apparel, but by their unwillingness to fight for their own right to be inviolate. I wonder if this will ever change...

1 ( +3 / -2 )

He must have been looking for a landing strip.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

oginomeSep. 01, 2011 - 08:38AM JST

That would be hard to believe. Rather one multiple sockpuppeting.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I don't understand why some people get so worked up about this. The guys tried and failed and nobody got hurt - a happy ending, isn't it? Props for trying though...besides maybe he was drunk and in which case Who Cares!.

As a guy in his 20s I have to admit that this place is just tooo sexy. The girls are beautiful, slim, and girly..who can resist? yet most of us to fight of the urge to take up-skirt photos of twenty-something girls, i bet most guys had it cross their mind more than once.

5 ( +5 / -1 )

The Munya Times

don't wave the cape in front of the bull's eyes unless you are a pro bullfighter and prepared for the consequences.

zurcronium

hahaha

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Go on the internet and find lots of free stuff, no need to get arrested over this illegal stuff, idiots.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Go on the internet and find lots of free stuff, no need to get arrested over this illegal stuff, idiots.

Where is the creative integrity in that?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

the girl was obviously jalbait.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I think what is common with most pervs is that they are basically just plain bored with their normal lives.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I think what is common with most pervs is that they are basically just plain bored with their normal lives. Not this perve. I really enjoy my life.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Why would anybody bother trying to take photos of a woman's knickers when the Internet is awash with much better fuel for his solitary fires?

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Ivan you are right. There is so much porn on the net, so why would a dumb idiot risk there job and family for shooting pictures on escalators?

Very weird.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

I enjoy looking at women, their eyes, hair, butts boobs, legs well you all get the point, but com on, doing illegal stuff like this, I mean taking pictures or video it is not right. Now if you have a girlfriend who wants to turn you on, wearing as little as possible and giving you peeks in public, this is real good fun, last girl friend did that for me!

5 ( +6 / -1 )

What happened to her Mexicano-san?

They try to stop people from taking pictures at the beach whether you are a guy or a girls. They want you to ask permission first. It is not a law but jorei. If you ask people, then they give that absurd peace sign and ruin candid shots. I was stopped from shooting a band on the beach, so went to the police koban and showed my pictures. They said ok but ask. Absurd as the band asked me to shoot them for a promotional.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

These JAL pilots are sure flying high.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

How do you not know he was just acting in the interest of national security just like TSA does before you board an airplane? Does anyone know if you have to get groped in japan before getting on an airplane?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Up, up & away!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

DentShop: "Could the pilot make the argument that he accidentally took the photo?"

Ummm... given the fact that: "He was quoted by police as saying that he had seen a program about taking up-skirt photos on TV a few days earlier, and he wondered if he could do it too"

do you not think we can surmise it was intentional?

Seriously, anyone who is sticking up for this man directly (as with some posters suggesting it's the women's fault for wearing short skirts) or indirectly (by suggesting it might have been an accident) really need some help. It's disgusting in this day and age that people will still blame the victim for this kind of invasion or for sexual assault when clearly it is the fault, 100%, of the person who commits the crime.

And yes, this comes only a short time after the guy was caught stealing a woman's underwear, while naked, from her balcony, and wasn't it also JAL where the pilot let the flight attendant sit in his cock-pit? Granted the last isn't quite the same, except that JAL has some serious problems (or was it ANA?). The whole up the skirt photo thing or panty-thieving is unfathomable... watch some porn for lord's sake! or better yet, find a young woman to be your partner and role-play.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

As a girl, this is sometimes difficult to say.. but if you're wearing a skirt that's so short it flashes your underwear on stairs, then you're basically inviting people to look. Complaining about it would be like wearing a very low-cut top and moaning about people staring at your chest.

However, looking is where it should stop! Taking pictures is highly invasive, and purposefully setting out to do so even more so. The pilot should feel ashamed. I wish there was more information on this program about taking upskirt photos... was it a serious debate to tackle the problem, or a more lighthearted one poking fun at it? I hope it is not the latter.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

smithinjapanSep. 01, 2011 - 03:59PM JST

Seriously, anyone who is sticking up for this man directly (as with some posters suggesting it's the women's fault for wearing short skirts) or indirectly (by suggesting it might have been an accident) really need some help.

The people who really need help are those who see a one way street where its a two-way, and lean out their car window to yell at those driving on the other side. Sometimes women are blameless when this happens, and sometimes they aren't. If a woman is wearing a knee length skirt and a guy has to actually insert his camera in that skirt, yeah, I blame him totally. But if a woman is wearing a skirt that requires just a little angling to get a nice pic on the escalator, where a man's hand might be expected to be when holding a briefcase but is instead holding a camera, the woman bears some fault for that.

It's disgusting in this day and age that people will still blame the victim for this kind of invasion or for sexual assault when clearly it is the fault, 100%, of the person who commits the crime.

Sexual assault?? You go along way proving my point with that claim!

Since people of like mind as yourself have defined the crime, so of course you can make your 100 percent fault claim. You stack the deck, you take home the pot. But you did not win the game.

I would like to see the law get more balanced, because its completely skewed as it is now, how ever much that may make you feel justified to be knee-jerk indignant, every time it happens, irregardless of circumstances.

If in public, I say that if a man touches a woman or actually gets anything in her skirt for the pic, arrest him. If he did neither but just angled for the pic, then measure the skirt. If its below a certain length, leave it. If the woman refuses to stop and have her skirt measured, leave it.

Aiding and abetting a crime is also a crime. And I say the punishment for that crime, since the one who aided and abetted is the so-called victim, should be to declare there was no crime.

In no way do I want to further this activity, but no tolerance is a stupid idea in this case. It won't eliminate this, it wastes police time, it costs us money, and it fills jail cells for no good reason. Let the women who care dress like they care, and those who don't care to also dress to match. Arrest the men who ignored the will of those women who showed they cared, and leave the rest alone.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Ivan CoughanoffalotSep. 01, 2011 - 01:47PM JST

Why would anybody bother trying to take photos of a woman's knickers when the Internet is awash with much better fuel for his solitary fires?

A picture of girls you have actually seen stimulates your memory for what you have actually seen. A picture of women you have not seen is much more bland. Its a similar difference between looking at your own family pictures and those of a stranger. The family pictures of others are not very interesting if you never met those people in your life.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Oracle: " Sometimes women are blameless when this happens, and sometimes they aren't. If a woman is wearing a knee length skirt and a guy has to actually insert his camera in that skirt, yeah, I blame him totally. But if a woman is wearing a skirt that requires just a little angling to get a nice pic on the escalator, where a man's hand might be expected to be when holding a briefcase but is instead holding a camera, the woman bears some fault for that."

So the woman is to blame for the man taking the picture? That's ludicrous. A woman's skirt length in no way controls a man being unable to control his urges, point a camera, and push buttons. Looking? ogling? Sure, I can see that, and I will admit I will look at cleavage should it present itself. But literally taking a picture, climbing a balcony to steal underwear, groping, rape... there's no way a woman bears any responsibility for these things. There's a reason why cameras are required to give off a sound when a picture is taken, and this is why.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Oracle: "Aiding and abetting a crime is also a crime. And I say the punishment for that crime, since the one who aided and abetted is the so-called victim, should be to declare there was no crime."

What era are you living in? A woman is free to dress how she chooses, so long as she is not in the nude where public nudity is prohibited (goes for men too, of course). No woman is 'aiding and abetting' in a crime because of what she wears, unless you're suggesting the men are mindless animals unable to control themselves -- in which case they have no place in society.

In any case, in this instance the man clearly stated he wanted to 'go out and try and see if he could do it too' (and why that show was on TV is beyond me!), so his crime was premeditated and it wouldn't matter one iota what length the skirt was.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

smithinjapanSep. 01, 2011 - 05:28PM JST

A woman's skirt length in no way controls a man being unable to control his urges, point a camera, and push buttons. Looking? ogling? Sure, I can see that, and I will admit I will look at cleavage should it present itself.

Okay. What if the women start demanding you control yourself and not look at their cleavage anymore. At all. Ever. What would you say? You would say they are provoking your behavior, yes?

Well I am the same as you. I don't feel the need to snap pics, but I do feel the need to look. If another man has less self control than me, to the point that he feels the need to snap pics, just how down on it should I be? If another man has even less self control, and physically assaults women, that is where I feel a big crackdown is needed. But I am aware that if we stop him, his is going to chafe, just like I would chafe if women had cleavage and demand I never look. But I feel justified in making that one chafe. But a guy who wants to take pics? Its basically harmless and getting people arrested for it is akin to arresting people for not being pretty enough. Its a psychological disturbance at best (if the usual proximity is not violated). Also it seems that some women must not mind or they would have adjusted their behavior by now. If a woman does not mind, why arrest the guy?

At the very least, I think its necessary to prove the woman did mind, not just arrest guys for doing it and let the victim walk away, possibly even unaware of the situation. What kind of bad joke is that, to call someone a victim who knows nothing of the situation, and arrest them for making that person a victim??? I mean, gee, I don't like to have video taken of me at work. But if someone did it on the sly, I want to be consulted and not have him arrested without my input. As the victim, should I not have that right?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

so his crime was premeditated and it wouldn't matter one iota what length the skirt was.

Do you imagine he tried it with a woman in an ankle length skirt? Do you imagine he premeditated the crime based on the effect women in ankle length skirts had on him?

What era are you living in?

Truth and fairness are not dependent on era.

A woman is free to dress how she chooses,

Yes. So long as she is willing to accept the consequences of dressing that way. Its the same as walking around nude. You know there will be consequences, even if its legal. Short skirts come with consequences. I say, bear them, or refrain.

The idea that women should be automatically guiltless and bear no responsibility in certain situations is surely from a bygone era and is not fair. And in the Muslim world we just have it the opposite, where the woman is always to blame and the man hardly ever. Its not a question of gender. Its a question of people having preventative measures readily available but refusing to use them, all the while provoking others.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Please do not post inflammatory remarks such as above.

There are many sexists around here. I would never judge anyone for a short look on the cleavage, crotch or on the buttocks of a woman or a man with the proper clothing. It is to my eyes the same as looking at the face and rejoicing by the fact that he or she has cute or handsome facial traits.

The difference lies in the point of intrusion. If You start taking pics or just try to dig Your eyes deeply into the cleavage or under the skirt then Your are intruding into someone else's privacy sphere. Of course there is no physical harm done by men looking below skirts and taking photos, obsessing about underwear and watching women doing whatever these guys are obsessed of.

But would You want someone to enter Your house during Your vacation, live, cook, sleep and maybe have sex in Your private place, use all Your stuff, clean everything afterwards and leave without You ever knowing that he or she had ever been there? You'd also be against that and feel intruded. For me (as for most people) this is a nightmarish idea.

Even if women don't know about it, it is an intrusion into their private sphere. Normally, You'd assume that people living in a culture where You do not even shake hands because it is an intrusion into the private domain of Your counterpart should be as careful about the privacy of women. However, it is exactly the opposite here.

If You really want a photo, then have the balls and ask. You will be rejected in most cases, but in some cases You might be lucky and get her consent. Nothing You can obtain without overcoming obstacles at some point provides strong memories. On the other hand, it might be that many men cannot accept being rejected because their ego is just to weak.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Oh behave, baby!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

People can wear what they like. If you can't control your own primitive urges, then that's your problem and seek help.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I cannot believe people are still arguing about this silly stuff. I am proud of my legs and like men to look at them. It is not like I am showing hair or anything like that.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

If You start taking pics or just try to dig Your eyes deeply into the cleavage or under the skirt then Your are intruding into someone else's privacy sphere.

Taking pics is an intrustion, but looking isn't?? Sorry, I don't see any logic there at all. I only see a personal bias.

There are many sexists around here.

Indeed there are. But it seems those who are sexist in the favor of females don't know they are sexists.

But would You want someone to enter Your house during Your vacation

I know what you want to say with this analogy, but, the analogy is practically impossible. If it were easily possible, some people would not mind. People tend to mind because it pretty much cannot be done. Those other people will break stuff. Some will steal, etc. and THAT is why people mind. But with this "crime" the woman often really does not know. And as I said before, if no space bubble is violated any more than usual, then it should be overlooked. Women can easily dress so that the only way it can happen is with a violation of that space bubble. To say that women should be able to provoke men to their hearts content is sexist. Just as it would be sexist to say that men should have unlimited access to take pictures under women's skirts. The only way to not be sexist is realize that both have to have limits to this very genderized problem. If you don't offer a solution with a middle ground, you are being sexist.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Oracle, stop with your bizarre convoluted arguments. Even if a girl walked into Shinjuku station wearing hot pants and bikini top, it doesn't entitle anyone, male or female, to take a photo without her consent.

IT'S YOUR PROBLEM IF YOU CAN'T CONTROL YOUR URGES.

To say that women should be able to provoke men to their hearts content is sexist.

What, by dressing in skimpy clothing? People dress for themselves, not just to 'provoke men'.

Just as it would be sexist to say that men should have unlimited access to take pictures under women's skirts.

No, that's not sexist, it's a CRIME.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

W.T.F.??Unless this nut has some top-secret lighting equipment I can't understand How Anyone can See Anything These sordid tales are getting Quite Tiresome-Please try getting more important stories,Thank You!

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I don't get why some people risk losing their high-paying jobs to do stuff like this.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

IT'S YOUR PROBLEM IF YOU CAN'T CONTROL YOUR URGES.

Partly. My problem is with you declaring that that makes fault 100 percent. If someone goes around provoking people and one of them loses control, people often put some fault on the provoker. There is one reason its not common with this: political correctness, and its bogus.

People dress for themselves, not just to 'provoke men'.

I don't drive over the speed limit with intention of causing an accident, I do it for me. Hardly excuses speeding. It does matter the purpose of wearing certain clothes. It matters the effect. It is irresponsible to do something that causes a bad effect. In fact, if you do we say you should CONTROL YOUR URGES. This cuts both ways. Upskirters don't take pictures to annoy women any more than women dress to attract upskirters. If you say men should not upskirt because it annoys women, I can just as easily say women should not wear miniskirts as it provokes men.

I am dead in the center of this issue and I am not going to choose typical female desires over typical male desires and casually hand all the pie to one. I see the two sides working together to create a problem, even if the women are doing it rather subtlely, they are still doing it. May as well lay gold bricks out on your lawn and then complain when they are not there in the morning. Of course the theif is wrong, but so is the person who provoked the theif to steal.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Partly. My problem is with you declaring that that makes fault 100 percent. If someone goes around provoking people and one of them loses control, people often put some fault on the provoker. There is one reason its not common with this: political correctness, and its bogus.

Once again, dressing in skimpy clothing isn't provocation. That's YOUR problem if you see it that way. Yes, you are 100 percent at fault if a girl is dressed in next to nothing, minding her own business and you do something untoward her like, um, I don't know.... STICK A CAMERA UP HER SKIRT??!! WTF? Looking with your eyes is all you're allowed, sorry.

I don't drive over the speed limit with intention of causing an accident, I do it for me. Hardly excuses speeding. It does matter the purpose of wearing certain clothes. It matters the effect. It is irresponsible to do something that causes a bad effect. In fact, if you do we say you should CONTROL YOUR URGES. This cuts both ways. Upskirters don't take pictures to annoy women any more than women dress to attract upskirters. If you say men should not upskirt because it annoys women, I can just as easily say women should not wear miniskirts as it provokes men.

Sexually violating someone because you can't control yourself is completely different from wearing an outfit or skirt that day because you like how it looks on you. The woman is minding her own business, what gives the man the right to violate her like that? The two can't be compared so your argument falls flat.

I am dead in the center of this issue and I am not going to choose typical female desires over typical male desires and casually hand all the pie to one. I see the two sides working together to create a problem, even if the women are doing it rather subtlely, they are still doing it. May as well lay gold bricks out on your lawn and then complain when they are not there in the morning. Of course the theif is wrong, but so is the person who provoked the theif to steal.

Anyone who tries to apportion blame to a woman for being sexually harrassed or violated in any way shape or form by judging her on what she was wearing is NOT in 'the dead center of this issue'. Your misogyny is visible for all to see. Stop trying to play devil's advocate for all the scummy perverts out there.

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The way people go around being sneaky with shooting is not proper. However, I do not see any thing wrong with people shooting pictures of other people they find attractive. As long as they do not post them on line. If it is a hobby though, I would suggest that getting a model release be priority number one just in case you want to publish. I have been asked before as I am friendly. Some photographer friends of mine always carry releases with them for people and businesses. Under age releases have to be signed by parents or guardians. 20 and over is adult.

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@JapanGal

I do not see any thing wrong with people shooting pictures of other people... I have been asked before as I am friendly.

I very much doubt it's just because you're "friendly" ! I'm friendly, but nobody wants to take my picture.

It must be something else.... ;)

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Stop trying to play devil's advocate for all the scummy perverts out there.

I didn't. I drew lines which I would not draw if I were advocating for perverts. You just fail to appreciate those lines. And I am no mysogynist, and that sort of name callilng is uncalled for, unfounded, and not at all helpful.

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Readers, plesase stop sniping at each other.

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I drew lines which I would not draw if I were advocating for perverts. You just fail to appreciate those lines

I failed to appreciate the lines? Lol, no, your argument wasn't that complex.

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oginomeSep. 02, 2011 - 10:31PM JST

I failed to appreciate the lines? Lol, no, your argument wasn't that complex.

Indeed it wasn't. Yet you accuse me of playing Devil's advocate for ALL the scummy perverts. Its pretty obvious you did not get my argument despite how not complex it was.

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I think one of the problems is that there's just so much porn out there in Japan and hardly any stigma about going out there and getting what you want that these guys don't learn any sort of impulse control. They want to get their rocks off and want to do it how they want to do it. It doesn't even occur to them that it might be a bad idea or that they might actually get caught.

I've said this before and I'll say it again: The length of the skirt makes no difference. Guys will walk around with cameras in their shoes to get an upskirt pic if they have to. (No, I'm not making stuff up. This is a real thing.) More and more I see miniskirts with little shorts attached or stores selling bloomers that you can wear under miniskirts, so going after the girls in the micros isn't even going to be an option half the time unless you want to see lots of black spandex. The way these guys operate, just about any skirt above the knee will do as long as it has some flare to it.

I've tried just about every time a girl is wearing a miniskirt in front of me on the stairs or escalator to see if I could glimpse her briefs (especially since all the guys on here claim they see panties all the time), and have determined that all of that is just wishful thinking. I have yet to see anyone's underwear. If you're taking pics of it, you're trying to take pics of it.

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Wonder why they've not considered taking photos at a beach in which you effectively get many upskirt (sans skirt) pictures at the same time... or just going to the local swimming pool and watching the locals ? Seems a bit odd to me, and so what if you're on a steep escalator and you look up and see a girl flaunt her undies ... is that a crime too ? Taking a picture of it well... a bit sad.

As for the JAL Pilot caught on the balcony naked.. conspiracy theory suggests he was actually sleeping with her, when the father/hubby came home, so he lept out onto the balcony, minus clothes... of course she'd deny knowing him and the poor guy gets labelled a perv... well that's just an alternate slant on things.... :-)

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Wonder why they've not considered taking photos at a beach

They have, and they get busted there too. There was a TV special about that.

if you're on a steep escalator and you look up and see a girl flaunt her undies ... is that a crime too ?

I heard yes. Not just a glimpse mind you, but looking for a while. But speeding is also illegal, even 1k/hr over the limit. Does anyone get busted? No. I am sure the police won't hassle you unless you are crouching down and riding the escalator up and down obviously trying to get panty views.

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Indeed it wasn't. Yet you accuse me of playing Devil's advocate for ALL the scummy perverts. Its pretty obvious you did not get my argument despite how not complex it was.

You shouldn't be playing Devil's advocated for ANY scummy perverts, Oracle. It doesn't matter how long or short someone's skirt is, it doesn't give any man (or woman) the right to just photograph their underwear. And stop with the useless speeding analogies. If you're speeding on the road, you're putting your life as well as that of others in danger. If you wear a short skirt, then you're not harming anyone. Control your urges pervy men, you'll ALWAYS be the ones to blame if you try and do anything unsolicited or against someone's will.

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Looking yes,taking photos no, unless by consent

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Oracle: "Okay. What if the women start demanding you control yourself and not look at their cleavage anymore. At all. Ever. What would you say? You would say they are provoking your behavior, yes?"

I'd say tough tit&ies. I look because I WANT to look, and I can easily turn away. But looking isn't breaking any laws. Taking pictures is, bottom line. The idea that the man can't help but take a picture up a skirt because he saw it on a TV program and wanted to try it? How 'down on that' should you be? You should first and foremost acknowledge that laws are being broken, whereas looking does not break any laws. Now, with the silly allusions out of the way, what else is there to defend?

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And for once I agree with oginome, the speeding analogies, Oracle, are not only unrelated, but lame.

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