crime

Japan, UK discuss handover of 3 robbery suspects despite no extradition treaty

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Send them back and punish them!

5 ( +12 / -7 )

Now Carlos Ghosn cannot flee to Britain.

6 ( +12 / -6 )

@oldman_13 yes, I couldn’t agree with you more. And. Just in case anyone joins in with “hostage justice” stuff, yes, I agree that there definitely needs to be changes in regards to how Japan deals with interrogations.

However, especially when it comes to crimes like these, we cannot let a flawed detention system be an excuse for criminals like these to get away with their crimes.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

UK, please send these violent criminals back to Japan to face justice. Start brushing up on your nihongo, lads. Hopefully they will all get 30 years in a Japanese prison. Unfortunately the thug who was a child will likely escape extradition.

4 ( +11 / -7 )

Did you hear that Lebanon?

You give safe heaven to Ghosn a criminal, thief and coward running away from justice. If this is the kind of relationship they want with Japan we should remember this country and how they handled this case.

Thank you UK. That's how major countries handle criminals who run away.

-13 ( +13 / -26 )

I am a British citizen. Despite whatever proof there is of these three being guilty of this crime, I would be very disappointed if my country decided to extradite them to a country with such a backwards, unfair, oppressive, brutal and possibly corrupt legal and justice system.

6 ( +17 / -11 )

@Stewart Gale they made the choice to commit the crime there.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

@Stewart Gale as a Brit myself, I agree. Despite this crime committed in Japan, if the UK were to hand them over at the request of the Japanese corrupt justice system with not even an extradition agreement in place prior. That would be unforgiving.

9 ( +15 / -6 )

It might well be a bit harder to find them now!

7 ( +7 / -0 )

No country with a properly functioning justice system should be turning over prisoner's to Japan. They are throwing their innocent (as not convicted) to the wolves, who have no respect for prisoner's rights.

5 ( +12 / -7 )

If they are sent back, I’m 99 percent certain they’ll be convicted. 99.4 percent to be exact.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

@Kag

And they were allowed to leave the country before they were caught, the Japanese police missed their chance to catch them.

Now that they are in the UK, they shouldn’t be sent back in to such a primeval justice system.

Who knows what other crimes the prosecutors would coerce them in to confessing to during the 23 days (at least) of sleep deprived interrogations without legal counsel present.

The UK wouldn’t extradite its citizens to Somalia or North Korea. Nor should they to Japan, under the current legal conditions there.

In my opinion.

2 ( +10 / -8 )

I highly doubt they get sent back to Japan. Guilty or not, Japan needs to get its system up to standard. The alleged criminals can drag it out if there is a chance for them to extradited by appealing the the court of human rights. Japanese justice is a myth.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

I'm also worried about setting a precedent which could lead to an extradition treaty with Japan. You could be sending innocent people. You might as well sign an extradition treaty with China.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

So if they can’t get a fair trial here send them to somewhere known to be fair and just.

Somewhere like Canada......

But wait...Canada also has a 99% conviction rate.

I do wish people would stop ranting about the high conviction rate, most countries have rates in the 90’s. If conviction is not likely cases are dropped.

Please continue to rant about the lack of lawyers, length of questioning and lack of bail but the conviction rate isn’t really the problem.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

READ & COMPREHEND

"Tokyo police have sent evidence and other investigation materials to the British authorities and both sides have been preparing necessary documents and negotiating on the matter, the sources said.

When no extradition treaty exists, the country where the crime was committed usually asks the country where the alleged suspect is living to prosecute him or her based on its laws on behalf of the former."

Most likely they will be tried in Britain if they are to be tried.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

If these guys committed a crime they must be sentenced and serve their times.

But not under Japan’s outdated and prejudice discriminatory system.

The UK must trial them in their country so they can have for sure a fair trail and a just sentence.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

So who next, the Chinese?

Criminals or not, they should not be extradited to Japan. If the law allows they should be tried in the UK, otherwise not.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Bad precedent. No extradition treaty should mean no extradition. Japan would never reciprocate if one of its citizens were accused in the UK - or anywhere else.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

If the situation were reversed the Japanese would never agree to this. They’d say it’s regrettable, but no extradition treaty exists so shoganai. Japan protects its own at all costs. They should be tried in the UK and face justice for their crimes.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Why now? 5 years after the fact. Oh, because of the Ghosn situation. If the 3 Brits are extradited, there is a better chance of Ghosn being extradited. Such a pathetic attempt by the MOJ.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

@expat

Japan would never reciprocate if one of its citizens were accused in the UK - or anywhere else.

You are right. The Japanese guy who murdered a woman in France and ate her, and then fled to Japan never got extradited, but Japan requests the extradition of jewelry thieves. Typical.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Mr KiplingToday  09:53 am JST

So if they can’t get a fair trial here send them to somewhere known to be fair and just.

Somewhere like Canada......

But wait...Canada also has a 99% conviction rate.

Where on earth did you get that figure about Canada? I've done a search and it comes back with an overall conviction rate of 62% of people tried in an adult court, compared to 99% in Japan.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Canada

In Canada, 2017-2018 statistics indicate an overall rate of conviction of 62% (of those charged in adult court), which includes cases involving guilty pleas, deals that are offered, and charges that are lessened; Canadian trial lawyer Kim Schofield estimates that ~50% of all cases end in conviction when the case goes "straight to trial" (i.e., is unmodified by lessened charges or plea).

China

In China, the justice system has a conviction rate of 99.9%.

Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conviction_rate#Canada

3 ( +4 / -1 )

About a million dollars at full price, then you have to sell that stuff on the black market for a big discount so maybe they each got 100 grand for this crime that may ruin their lives. Better off getting a job.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I am a British citizen. Despite whatever proof there is of these three being guilty of this crime, I would be very disappointed if my country decided to extradite them to a country with such a backwards, unfair, oppressive, brutal and possibly corrupt legal and justice system.

> @Stewart Gale as a Brit myself, I agree. Despite this crime committed in Japan, if the UK were to hand them over at the request of the Japanese corrupt justice system with not even an extradition agreement in place prior. That would be unforgiving.

I am a british citizen and I would like to add my voice to Stewart and Marsh. Japan's backward justice system is less than third world. We shouldn't extradite our citizens there. PLUS I'm willing to be that if the roles were reversed NO WAY would the Japanese extradite their citizens to the UK.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Have the Japanese ever extradited a Japanese person of a crime to another country?

3 ( +5 / -2 )

And I ask that as an honest question.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

I also want to add one more thing: japan has an extradition treaty with the US. The US has asked Japan to extradite 2 Japanese senior members of Takata for the faulty airbags that KILLED and MAIMED some people and the Japanese have so far refused to do so. So Japan does not even honour its extradition treaties.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

The Japanese have cooperated in sending Japanese defendants to the US for criminal antitrust violations and tens of Japanese are in US federal prisons. However, I am not sure if the defendants went voluntarily or were forcible transferred with cooperation from the Japanese government.

One thing these 3 British suspects can be sure of is that there is no due process in Japan. Arrest equals guilt, and guilt equals arrest. The rest is just a formality rubber stamp.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Sorry MSR; That's too much like WORK.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The Japanese guy who murdered a woman in France and ate her, and then fled to Japan never got extradited, 

I take it you're referring to the case of Sagawa Issei. He didn't flee to Japan. He was deported by French authorities after being found legally insane. In Japan, he was committed to a mental hospital initially. where he was found not to be insane. As criminal charges in France had been dropped, he couldn't be extradited or detained in a mental institution in Japan. It's a bizarre case, but not really related to Japan's attitude to extradition.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

@MSR

I did read and comprehend the article and noted that extract at the end you quoted.

However, the story starts with saying the two countries are in discussion about the handover of the suspects, as in them being returned to Japan and tried there.

I am completely in favour of them being tried in the UK and facing an appropriate prison sentence.

These three shouldn’t be allowed to get away with the crime but should be allowed a fair interrogation and trial which would only happen in the UK.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

*if guilty of the crime, I should add.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@KniknaknokkaerToday  12:44 pm JST

Where on earth did you get that figure about Canada? I've done a search and it comes back with an overall conviction rate of 62% of people tried in an adult court, compared to 99% in Japan.

It does seem to have some provenance:

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/just-3-of-criminal-cases-end-in-aquittal

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Kay I’m Japanese American, have lived in 5 continents...

Japan’s justice system is not third world or worse like so many of you claim.

Thats so ridiculous, and I am a firm believer that its backwards and unfair. But if you think you would rather be in another Asian jail or any place in Africa or South America...my god would you ever be counting ur blessings in Japan.

Lets get a little context here please.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Why not prosecute them in the UK in a British Court of Law?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

I'm British and I'm not keen on sending them back to Japan to be shafted if they're innocent. However, I think it would be reasonable to try them in a British court according to Japanese law as per the article

When no extradition treaty exists, the country where the crime was committed usually asks the country where the alleged suspect is living to prosecute him or her based on its laws on behalf of the former.

I don't want the British government to play the same games as the Japanese government because it would damage the country's reputation

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Wobot

If they would not get a fair trial (aka CG) then yeah ok.

But if they are a gang of thugs who beat up people and steal then why should they not face justice? Even if the punishment is harsher than at home.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

If you don't want to risk being punished by a country's unfair Legal System then don't commit a crime there!

These people knew the risk that they were taking!

2 ( +2 / -0 )

If I were one of the 3 Brits then I would be quaking in my boots...

1 ( +1 / -0 )

It'll be interesting to see if it happens. There will definitely be a legal challenge before extradition on the grounds of not getting a fair trial. As a Londoner, I say try them in the UK because at least they'll get a legal defence and whether guilty or not, everyone is entitled to a defence and not spend 105 days in isolation without access to a lawyer.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

everyone is entitled to a defence and not spend 105 days in isolation without access to a lawyer.

Hostage Justice, Corrupt Justice, barbaric injustice, worse than 3rd world countries, par with NK, China, etc just carry on all you like except.... do not lie. The suspects do have access to lawyers. In case of Ghosn, he had meetings with lawyers almost every day ( 120 days out of 130 days) 2hours/per day without any observers in the meeting room.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

In extradition requests, my understanding and expectation the legal legal system needs to be scrutinized to see if it follows the laws of the country, in this case the UK. I agree if the UK legal system takes this action, it would create a terrible precedent, so I don't see this happening.

If you are interested more in extradition, follow the extradition trial of Meng Wanghuo, CFO of Huawei starting this week in Vancouver.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

'The suspects do have access to lawyers. In case of Ghosn, he had meetings with lawyers almost every day (120 days out of 130 days) 2hours/per day without any observers in the meeting room'.

Utter rubbish and you have no proof for that statement.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

London_BhoyToday  06:54 am JST

'The suspects do have access to lawyers. In case of Ghosn, he had meetings with lawyers almost every day (120 days out of 130 days) 2hours/per day without any observers in the meeting room'.

Utter rubbish and you have no proof for that statement.

You're just not following this news seriously, otherwise you're supposed to know what Takahiro Saito, Deputy Chief Prosecutor Tokyo D.P.P.O mentioned at his press conference on Jan 9th

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Tricky one. Deport from the UK and face cries of inhumanity. Keep them locked up in the UK and the UK Taxpayer foots the bill ??? Wonder whether its cheaper to keep them locked up in the UK or Japan ? Bet that may come into consideration

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The defendants can successfully argue against any request for extradition based on 'cruel and unusual punishment' that is the Japanese prison system. Tee UK cannot extradite anyone who has a high risk of experiencing this, or who (though not in this case) may be subject to the death penalty

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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