crime

Prosecutors charge 2 Americans with helping Ghosn flee, jump bail

60 Comments
By YURI KAGEYAMA

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Prosecutors said the Taylors were formally charged Monday with helping a criminal escape.

Perhaps a case of lost in translation, but doesn't this mean the Gsohn is presumed guilty before his trial? Is one legally considered to be a criminal before their conviction? IMO, this is different than one's opinion or the presumption that he is guilty.

15 ( +28 / -13 )

hooktrunk2

Perhaps a case of lost in translation, but doesn't this mean the Gsohn is presumed guilty before his trial? Is one legally considered to be a criminal before their conviction?

In here, there is no Presumption of innocence and people must prove they are innoncent. Often even years after. One part of the blame is the hostage justice here, where you often agree to the charges in exchange for easier sentence under mental torture.

7 ( +21 / -14 )

I hope the Taylors are brushing up on their Japanese, which they will need to use every day for 3 years. And I hope they like miso, rice and tofu. No US gourmet food in "the Big House".

Should have stayed permanently in Lebanon with their boss.

-3 ( +20 / -23 )

How can these people be charged with helping a criminal escape when Ghosn hasn't been tried yet? It would be informative to hear a legal expert explain this situation...

25 ( +36 / -11 )

So... the article states that technically "bail jumping" is not a crime... but that the prosecutors claim they have enough evidence to convict... of something that is technically not a crime.

15 ( +25 / -10 )

The Taylor’s have implicated Ghosn’s wife and daughter. Warrants will be out for them next.

4 ( +13 / -9 )

Prosecutors said the Taylors were formally charged Monday with helping a criminal escape. 

Ghosn has not been convicted of anything any therefore is not a criminal.

So either, Ghosn was presumed guilty from the get go... no chance of a fair trial (sound familar?) or these guys are getting charged for something that technically had not yet been determined.... which one is it please?

9 ( +20 / -11 )

Not in the least bit surprised that they are being charged already they didn't have much of a choice as they couldn't slap on more charges as I previously mentioned in a different article sometime ago.

Taylors face up to three years in prison and a fine of up to 300,000 yen ($2,900).

Not sure if this is accurate the law they are charged with and the translation I read suggested a different number.

violation of Article 103 of the Japanese Penal Code

https://casetext.com/case/in-re-extradition-of-taylor-1

10 ( +10 / -0 )

"...where more than 99% of those who go on trial are found guilty...." That alone speaks volumes about whether you can expect to find justice in Japan, a country where police and prosecutors never make a mistake, and the possibility of their doing so is infinitesimally small - one out of one hundred.

1 ( +10 / -9 )

Do you think Ghosn feels any guilt about this? Nah. They were just tools.

4 ( +12 / -8 )

3 years and $2900??? They got paid $1.3 million. Why did they even bother to hire a Boston law firm to fight the extradition???

16 ( +16 / -0 )

"...where more than 99% of those who go on trial are found guilty...." That alone speaks volumes about whether you can expect to find justice in Japan, a country where police and prosecutors never make a mistake, and the possibility of their doing so is infinitesimally small - one out of one hundred.

This phrasing from the article is poor. Yes, 99 percent of those charged are convicted. But most of those are confessions, not trials.

For context and comparison, the rate in the U.S. is 98 percent.

Trials in Japan have a higher conviction rate than in most Western countries, but trials are also rare because most cases produce confessions, which are not unlike the plea deals that the vast majority of American cases ends with.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

Nissan, as a company, is also standing trial. Nissan has acknowledged wrongdoing.

what are there charges?, what prosicutions are pending? Has anyone been arrested and charged yet? weve not heard a great deal about nissan and there bosses, ummm its very quait on that front.

Nissans share prices : https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/quote/NSANY/?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAB723rRlptL4IBlL13hB2F-aJXKt1y2yQSvDsBWSjXKnEqiB5j9Wm5VvM1k5aBCuZoJlwOvUBj1hJIRd3j7sEQG7IF6UcYSLWxZpFnke-UKHinRL-wG-grABlb99iQLTsrsvUeVFuDEbCvw5BRKT8o1NozGk6BXS6dD2twbEwgyv

there has been quite a drop since 2018 i wounder why?

1 ( +5 / -4 )

They also argued that jumping bail is not a crime under Japanese law. That is technically accurate, but most people who escape are easily caught in Japan.

Japanese prosecutors have repeatedly stressed that they have enough evidence to convict the Taylors

It would seem they are being charged under the Japanese ‘sour grapes’ laws.

6 ( +12 / -6 )

Do you think Ghosn feels any guilt about this? Nah. They were just tools.

Why should he feel any guilt? He didn't out them, he paid them for a job and they choose to do it knowing full well the risks they took.

Like many Foreigners they believe that this is nothing more than a conspiracy and that is mainly due to prosecutors only targeting the two foreigners at the forefront of merger talks and then making deals with Nissan for Japanese nationals and then paying for it by admitting some guilt and paying a fine.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

If convicted, the Taylors face up to three years in prison and a fine of up to 300,000 yen ($2,900).

Nice! That is not a big sentence at all..these guys can serve that no problem..especially with the past experience they have!

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

@hooktrunk2Today 04:24 pm JST

Is one legally considered to be a criminal before their conviction?

For the purposes of the article involved, yes. Because it comes up a lot, I already prepared slides of from my textbook.

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1jL0a7SXeqV3sWhh7a1akjqnJZQIkYYPbQ63vTuypifE/edit#slide=id.p

On page three, I show an example how it is not really that uncommon for real life statutes to not be as "presumption of innocence" in their wording as people would like.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Where I was taught failing to surrender to Bail is a criminal offence.

Glad to see Japan takes the same approach.

JT "experts" disagree with Japanese, American, UK and almost every other Jurisprudence slapped on their faces!

Beautiful.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

[if] there was a trial for Ghosn and he was proven innocent, what will happen?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

So the maximum sentence they face is up to 3 years and a fine up to ¥300,000.

And comparing that to a DUI (blood alcohol level of greater than 0.02 if your under 21) which has a maximum imprisonment with work of up to 3 years and a maximum fine of up to 500,000, and DWI (greater than 0.15) with a maximum of 5 years and a fine up to ¥1,000,000.

And they received at least $1.3M for the job? I would have advised them not to waste their money on lawyers to fight extradition or the charges. And chances are the won’t get anywhere near the maximum sentence anyway.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

"there was a trial for Ghosn and he was proven innocent, what will happen?"

That's 12 months in the nick, thank you very much (UK) just for doing a runner.

He won't be acquitted of that anywhere, except by JT Legal "expertise".

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Poor dudes no chance at all. gona be treated like inhuman murderers in prison.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

@zack

[if] there was a trial for Ghosn and he was proven innocent, what will happen?

Article 97 of the penal code states that: When a sentenced or unsentenced person confined on a judge's order escapes. Imprisonment with work for not more than 1 year shall be imposed.

He would go to jail for a year for jumping bail.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

How can these people be charged with helping a criminal escape when Ghosn hasn't been tried yet? It would be informative to hear a legal expert explain this situation...

Convicting Ghosn is not necessary. If the law were to require a formal conviction of the escapee before prosecuting those who enable the escape, the aiders of successful escapes would always be immune from justice. There's also the issue of death prior to conviction. If someone aids and abets the escape of a bank robber or terrorist who is ultimately killed in a shootout with police, should we not be able to prosecute those who aided them while on the run? The law in Japan (and elsewhere) is written in such a way that avoids these problems.

[if] there was a trial for Ghosn and he was proven innocent, what will happen?

If the Taylors are convicted but Ghosn is subsequently acquitted, it will change nothing. You can be guilty of enabling the escape of a fugitive who is eventually acquitted (or never tried). The relevant question is whether the Taylors knew that the police/courts/justice system were interested in Ghosn at the time they enabled his escape.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

M3 - thank you, that's clear.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Plead guilty.

Say that you are very sorry for your transgressions.

Say that you love jJpan and its culture and respect its laws.

Bow deeply and apologize for the inconvenience that you have created.

Pay the fine and go home.

Those are the rules of the game.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

You can't escape bail. You can escape the prison. Skipping bail is not a crime, neither in Japan, nor where I come from. The state let you go in exchange of bail. If you skip it, you lose the bail and that is the punishment. Then usually the new warrant to arrest is issued, but that's another story.

The crime has been committed by the USA who let two their citizens to be traded to Japan for something that is not a crime in exchange of keeping military bases in Japan, which requires good relationships btewwen two countries. Japan's system is bad. I don't see how USA is any better.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Japanese prosecutors boast of their 99 percent conviction rate because they only indict cases where they are certain of winning conviction. They just drop weaker cases.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

A verdict is not expected for months.

And none of that will be counted as time served when, oops, IF they are found guilty!

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Plead guilty. Say that you are very sorry for your transgressions. Say that you love Japan and its culture and respect its laws. Bow deeply and apologize for the inconvenience that you have created.

Pay the fine and go home. Those are the rules of the game.

This will hardly work this time. These prosecutors got egg all over their faces because of letting Ghosen get away and they are going to hammer these two, even if they do as you suggest here. Don't be surprised if they ask for a sentence 5 times longer than the 3 years.

They would have a better chance getting off by suggesting they were drunk at the time, and didnt remember anything!

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

"If convicted, the Taylors face up to three years in prison and a fine of of $2,900"

$2,900 out of $1.3m, good deal.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

ZackToday  06:25 pm JST

[if] there was a trial for Ghosn and he was proven innocent, what will happen?

They'd be charged and found guilty of violating immigration laws. The Taylors' case has nothing to do with Ghosn's case. Ghosn jumped bail so there has been no trial.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Guilty or NOT, this case should be thrown out due to publicity, this trial will never be fair, and this case should be closed.

Nissan is the one that should be put on trail and NOT anyone else.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

$2,900 out of $1.3m, good deal.

Not really. Their lawyers fees in Japan and the U.S. to fight these charges would probably eat up half their profits.

My guess is the Taylors, if they had any sense, had future payments from Ghosn factored into their "contract" should they have gotten caught. If Ghosn has any sense of morality left, he will look after the Taylors financially when they get out of prison. Because their international "careers" are finished.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Plead guilty.

Say that you are very sorry for your transgressions.

Say that you love jJpan and its culture and respect its laws.

Bow deeply and apologize for the inconvenience that you have created.

Pay the fine and go home.

Those are the rules of the game.

Afraid not in this case. They want Ghosn. They'll hold them until they can dig up something on his wife or kids. Japan, China. No difference..

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Totally unfair tactics.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

The Taylor’s have implicated Ghosn’s wife and daughter. Warrants will be out for them next.

Have they. I thought that the Taylors were not immediately available for comment, as is standard in Japan's criminal system.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

.

@hooktrunk@ : but doesn't this mean the Ghosn is presumed guilty before his trial? 

.

I think the charges involve human trafficking.- which is a violation of international law.

.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The Japanese are seriously embarrassed over this incident. Nissan has brought Global shame to the Country of their blatant abuse / manipulation of Power, and the longer that this saga goes on, the worse it will be for the Country as a Whole.

Fine these men, kick them out, close down the case against Ghosn, and hope after a while things quieten down.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

This whole system is broken. Foreigners can smuggle people out of the country while their trail is pending for 1.3mill and they get fined for that small amount? Business must be thriving then for the underworld. This is why so many people escape the laws with money. Plenty of fools willing to take the money and do the risk.

Japan need to fix the whole jump bail law. Anyone who dare to aid a person to jump bail should not be allowed to see the sunlight in prison for at least a decade and have the money confiscated in my opinion.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

How can these people be charged with helping a criminal escape when Ghosn hasn't been tried yet? It would be informative to hear a legal expert explain this situation...

He was a criminal in the sense that he broke the terms of his house arrest by leaving the premises. After that, anyone who aided and abetted his escape were helping a criminal.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

If this turns out not to be a crime in Japan that US judge should be impeached.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@hiro

This whole system is broken.

totally agree: solitary confinement, repeated detentions, forced confessions, inequality, presumption of guilty, ...

the system is very broken.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Here's what pisses me off about the current mess: Japanese authorities knew exactly what the two Americans did, what crime they believe was committed, everything. Yet they did not charge them until the last day they are legally allowed to hold them before charging them. It's nothing more than a big Fork You. Absolutely nothing professional about it. It's personal. They were embarrassed and will do everything they can to make life hell for them. I hope the American's get off on some technicality and can return the bird when they leave Japan again for good.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

M3M3M3:

Convicting Ghosn is not necessary...

If the Taylors are convicted but Ghosn is subsequently acquitted, it will change nothing. You can be guilty of enabling the escape of a fugitive who is eventually acquitted (or never tried). The relevant question is whether the Taylors knew that the police/courts/justice system were interested in Ghosn at the time they enabled his escape.

Here is an example of such case in 1961.

Court: Tokyo Hight Court

Case Number: SHOWA 36(う)188

"およそ刑法第一〇三条の規定は司法に関する国権の作用を妨害する者を処罰する趣旨であるから(刑集3巻9号1440頁参照)現に捜査が行われている被疑事件に関連して罰金以上の刑に該る罪を犯したものとして逮捕状が発布されている者であることを知りながらその逮捕を免れしめる意図の下に犯人を隠避せしめれば直ちに犯人隠避の罪が成立し、よしんばその後犯人が当該被疑事件につき不起訴処分を受けたとしても、一旦成立した犯人隠避罪に何ら消長を来すものではないと解するのが相当であつて...、所論のように被告人が本件で起訴された後、何らかの事由で右Dが不起訴処分を受けたとしても、そのために被告人の本件刑事責任が解消される理由は少しもないのである。"

"Because the intent of Criminal Law No. 103 is to punish those who obstruct justice, it applies to a person willfully helps someone whose arrest warrant has been issued for committing a crime...Even if the suspect subsequently turned out not to be indicted, the legal responsibility does not disappear."

2 ( +3 / -1 )

I wounder if they will be given bail?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Japan need to fix the whole jump bail law. Anyone who dare to aid a person to jump bail should not be allowed to see the sunlight in prison for at least a decade and have the money confiscated in my opinion.

But why did Mr.Ghosn jump bail. It is because the bail conditions were barbaric, and he obviously has no confidence in the Japanese legal system to get a fair trail. Many seem to agree.

I wounder if they will be given bail?

The Taylors should just keep on applying. In Japan a defendant can apply unlimited times for baIl. In fact all foreigners held in pre-trail detention in Japan should continue to apply for bail every time it is refused.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Here's what pisses me off about the current mess: Japanese authorities knew exactly what the two Americans did, what crime they believe was committed, everything. Yet they did not charge them until the last day they are legally allowed to hold them before charging them. It's nothing more than a big Fork You. Absolutely nothing professional about it. It's personal.

No, it was professional. You just described how the Japanese NPA operates. They arrest quickly on alower charge, for which they can hold detainees while they investigate and gather evidence for the actual crime they intend to prosecute. Now, there are arguably some significant problems with that system, but nevertheless, it is the system, and these actions weren't something personal against the two defendants.

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

jumping bail is not illegal in Japan.

it's been like that forever.

you can watch many you tube videos of people running away from prosecutors in their cars or bicycles.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

watching the kelly's trial, and how the witnesses self-incriminate, you get a glance of the fairness of the justice here.

the only difference between Kelly and the witnesses is the color of the passport.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

(Bloomberg) -- Carlos Ghosn’s detention for almost 130 days in a Japanese jail was neither necessary nor reasonable and violated the former Nissan Motor Co. chairman’s human rights, a UN panel concluded in a harsh critique of Tokyo prosecutors who led the case against him.

Whatever the outcome, the Taylor's did the ethically and humanely right thing to do.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Just remember now, no matter how determined you may be that you are doing the right thing, no matter how much you may have consulted your conscience, better natures and moral makeup to make a difficult call, NEVER ever let your actions cause the loss of face in Asia. Friendly, understanding and harmonious tattemae will dissolve and a more primal, aggressive and cold undercurrent will surface. The J judiciary will have its pound of flesh, one way or another. It cannot possibly be a wake up call to reform the system, nor worth some quiet contemplation as to ‘how we got here?’

The messenger just needs to be shot. Owari

The Ghosn with the Wind saga is one that will define an era.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Yes, bokuda, they did the ethical and humane thing...and were paid well for it.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

These two were morons. Goshn got the last laugh. And to be fair he did throw everyone around him under the bus... but regardless of if he’s a scumbag or not, he never would have received a fair trial in Japan

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Wow judging by some of the posts here it sounds like being jailed in North Korea sounds like a luxury cruise compared to the torture the Japanese authorities subject you to. Worse yet is the blame on the American system and to the Japan haters arresting and sending the Taylors back to Japan would be like the American authorities agreeing to arrest and send someone back to NK for the crime of insulting Kim Jung Un.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

.

. but regardless of if he’s a scumbag or not, he never would have received a fair trial in Japan

.

Well, who ever said life - or the justice system - is ever fair . . anyplace in the world !!!???

.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Gaijinland These two were morons. Goshn got the last laugh....

Taylor did it out of a compassionate sense of justice.

He is no a moron. He is a Green Beret.

But - Ghosn's narrative is not over - - - -yet.

I doubt he is laughing now - certainly he will not be laughing at the end of the play

.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

helping a criminal escape

Only in Japan, where you're a criminal first and you have to prove your innocence. Japanese lawyers and judges are a laughing stock of the world.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

I’m not defending Goshn. Maybe he’s an a-hole, I don’t know. But from all the evidence it seems that he did nothing wrong legally during his tenure at Nissan, except for illegally fleeing the country after. But it’s pretty low that he left Gregg Kelly out to dry. The Japanese govt was out to get him.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

For what political reason did the US Government throw these American citizens under a bus?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

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