crime

High court upholds Karpeles conviction for data manipulation

16 Comments
By YURI KAGEYAMA

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16 Comments
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Karpeles' defense team argued that prosecutors did not understand how cryptocurrency exchanges worked and were trying to pin the blame for a massive cybercrime on Karpeles, who was just a victim trying to protect his clients.

Yep. I agree with that.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

I think he got lucky and should enjoy his 4 years in Japan. If Ghosn had played ball he also would have gotten a suspended sentence.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

I hope this means there may be some progress in the legal case for the return of the lost funds for customers.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

I hope this means there may be some progress in the legal case for the return of the lost funds for customers.

Funds?

Oh, you mean the real money that people trustingly swapped for cryptocurrency.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

It's sad, really sad.

The MOJ is untouchable.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Funds?

Oh, you mean the real money that people trustingly swapped for cryptocurrency.

Yes. And that cryptocurrency is now worth 10 times more in "real money" than what it was at its peak before the Mt Gox scandal. Sorry you missed the boat.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Yes. And that cryptocurrency is now worth 10 times more in "real money" than what it was at its peak before the Mt Gox scandal. Sorry you missed the boat.

I didn't. You can't miss something you were never trying to catch. I don't buy into what I don't need and don't trust.

But out of interest, how do you envisage these people having their "funds" returned to them: in what form should those funds be, and specifically who is to pay for it? And is it in your opinion appropriate that they receive their stolen funds at the supposed value at the time of theft, the current supposed value, the cash equivalent of the supposed value at the time of theft, or the cash that they originally put in, assuming they can provide evidence of any.

Because one thing about cash compared to crypto: it has backing, it represents something real, and it has a value that is commonly understood to the maximum number of people. That's why it rarely inflates to 10 times its value in a few years.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

But out of interest, how do you envisage these people having their "funds" returned to them: in what form should those funds be, and specifically who is to pay for it?

No idea. It's complicated, isn't it?

Because one thing about cash compared to crypto: it has backing, it represents something real, and it has a value that is commonly understood to the maximum number of people. That's why it rarely inflates to 10 times its value in a few years.

Instead it loses value. Takes almost $11 to buy what $1 could buy in 1950. But as you said, backing is important. The US dollar's value is almost entirely based on debt and trust, like a Ponzi scheme. It represents nothing real, unless you believe the promises of politicians are real. And it is manipulated and printed to suit those in power. A good crypto cannot be printed. It depends on trust in the code, which has been growing. The government uses its monetary system to control people. Crypto is free of that.

Sure, crypto can crash. But, to date, every single fiat currency has also collapsed. When the dollar collapses, maybe before, people will be forced to go cashless. At that point, every transaction you make will be monitored. Every penny will be taxed. And if you are buying, selling anything the government doesn't like (a book, a movie, maybe tobacco, alcohol or unapproved vitamins or medications), they can stop it instantly. They can freeze your account so you can't spend or receive money. Not even a penny. They will have absolute control over your consumption and activities this way.

Black Lives Matter could be shut down in an instant, for example. Or Sony could seize a large chunk of your money because you downloaded a song without permission. Instantly.

This is one reason why crypto is gaining interest, and gaining value. Most people are becoming aware that their governments and central banks are conning them.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Instead it loses value. Takes almost $11 to buy what $1 could buy in 1950. But as you said, backing is important. The US dollar's value is almost entirely based on debt and trust, like a Ponzi scheme. It represents nothing real, unless you believe the promises of politicians are real. And it is manipulated and printed to suit those in power. A good crypto cannot be printed. It depends on trust in the code, which has been growing. The government uses its monetary system to control people. Crypto is free of that.

This is the usual waffle issued by crypto supporters. Along with stuff about crypto being the future of money, and being too complex for the rest of us to understand. All fine, we can more or less tune them out, as we're used to people who think they have a special understanding of the future, and we're also used to people who don't find massive increases in value suspect because it's not a bubble and this time it's different.

But as the charm of cryptocurrency, stated by just about every vocal supporter, is supposedly that it belongs to no country and no government, why should it be expected that when something goes wrong, some country or government will step in to 1) stand behind the claimed value of the cryptocurrency and 2) refund or arrange that someone else refunds the people who were bilked?

If people want to apply their pseudo-survivalist thinking to investing because they don't trust fiat currencies, it may not possible to stop them, or to stop them gloating about freeing themselves from government control. But where's the obligation to help them when they screw up and claim they've lost 40,000 amaze-o-dollars?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

 why should it be expected that when something goes wrong, some country or government will step in to 1) stand behind the claimed value of the cryptocurrency and 2) refund or arrange that someone else refunds the people who were bilked?

Seriously? You believe the government has no obligation to investigate theft? (Number one is just something you made up. There is no demand for that.) You believe that the government's responsibility to the people hinges on the people using that governments currency?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Seriously? You believe the government has no obligation to investigate theft?

Theft is more a matter for the police than the government, and they need to be reasonably confident that it occurred within their own jurisdiction, and also that it occurred at all. That can be close to impossible with an item that its own users/advocates make a point of defining and redefining according to their own convenience.

And the more effort people take to cover their tracks or conceal their hoard or convert it into forms that aren't supported, the less likely it becomes that any authority in any country is going to take the trouble to rescue them. It is not the responsibility of governments to prop up cryptocurrencies or the people who buy them. Speculation is risk, and certain kinds of speculation are particularly risky.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The police are government, unless you live in a place where they are privately funded. The article above is an example of the government helping to recover stolen property. I have no idea what you mean by "defining and redefining according to their own convenience."

 It is not the responsibility of governments to prop up cryptocurrencies or the people who buy them. Speculation is risk, and certain kinds of speculation are particularly risky.

No disagreement there. I never suggested otherwise. Sadly the government takes responsibility (if one can call it that) for many things it shouldn't be involved in. Free markets for one.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

The police are government

Well okay. But they will handle a case of theft like regular police, not like government. The main variation being who handles it, as there may be specialized investigators or departments for certain types of crime. They also won't generally go beyond the fairly narrow confines of the individual crime itself. And investigating a theft - that is the word you applied - doesn't always result in uncovering what happened, who is responsible, or ensuring that people who have been stolen from are fully compensated. It doesn't even always show that theft occurred at all.

Mt Gox has been investigated because it was based here, went bankrupt here, and the operator was here. He may or may not have stolen from his investors. He certainly seems extremely fishy, but that's not unusual in highly speculative investment schemes. If investigators can't prove he did steal, and it seems they can't, it may end there. They could investigate the hacking, but that also happens to be a convenient cover story supplied by Karpelès which shifts the focus from him to anybody, anywhere. It could have happened, but police in Japan aren't going to throw infinite resources at that, and they don't have extensive powers outside Japan. So far, outside hacking is unproven.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Someone clearly wanted to accuse him of something, no matter what ?

I guess they couldn't the "Sneezing without putting one's hand up in front of one's nose" to stick.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Mark is a gaijin

Of course everybody will take the blame on him.

Same as Nissan, all gaijins are to blame.

Same as CODVID, miall gaijins are to blame.

Stay in your bubble and blame the minorities.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

"Karpeles' defense team argued that prosecutors did not understand how cryptocurrency exchanges worked..." How many of the prosecutors did actually understand the first thing about it? Too bad they can't be put on the stand so we can find out...

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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