crime

Court rejects Ghosn release bid

38 Comments
By Kazuhiro Nogi

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38 Comments

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This "injustice" system is just shaming Japan more and more every day.

23 ( +31 / -8 )

It seems that Nissan has a stronger case against Ghosn. That is the most recent hint I can get.

-22 ( +6 / -28 )

@Akie; "...all other criminals". It is for the judge to decide, after hearing the case for the prosecution, and the case for the defence, whether or not Ghosn is in fact a criminal. This is the process of law, and the reason for having a trial.

It seems that you have already judged him guilty ahead of the trial, and herein lies a fundamental flaw with the Japanese system of justice; it starts off on the wrong foot.

15 ( +18 / -3 )

Well, what a huge surprise that is, NOT! So, they intend to keep him locked up until his trial, which may take a year, with no contact with his family except through 30 minute visits with his lawyer? That is a travesty for someone who, as yet, has not been proven guilty.

15 ( +20 / -5 )

Lindsay, proven guilty ? What a joke. Why is he in the jail ?

-24 ( +4 / -28 )

Akie,

https://japantoday.com/category/crime/Judge-says-Ghosn-being-detained-due-to-flight-risk-and-possibility-he-may-conceal-evidence

4 ( +9 / -5 )

This is absolutely disgusting. These charges have been trumped up. Without Ghosn there would be no Nissan today. He should at least be given bail until the trial.

9 ( +15 / -6 )

The Japanese JustUs system. From what I've read of this case so far, especially compared to the treatment of Japanese executives in other scandals, some much more serious, that term would be nearer the truth than what's going on here. Justice is no more than a euphemism.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

@Akie are you not aware of how the system works here?...yes your right he has been charged but not found guilty are you saying hes guilty before he even goes to trial?

6 ( +8 / -2 )

right he has been charged but not found guilty are you saying hes guilty before he even goes to trial?

She's from China. That's how things work there.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Entirely predictable.

Because, of course, the real aim is to allow the prosecutors unfettered access to Ghosn, day or night, to interrogate him without his lawyer present to extract a confession.

Barring that, they want to make sure he is in no position to actually be free to help his defense team prepare for his trial.

Because he is guilty. I mean, if the police arrested him and the prosecutors have indicted him, he is guilty.

Right?!

What a sham!!!

And, again, I detest Ghosn and he could well be guilty. But this is just an abomination of a legal process.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

Ghosn has been detained from November 19th by now it's almost two months. It will be another six months waiting first hearing in the court. In total it will be eight months. By this point Saikawa already won.

So it doesn't matter whether you are innocent or not, people just can not just disappear for weeks even months without any consequence to their life. While justice system only care suspect could tamper evidence, that come with cost ruining people life

Custody takes its toll and it can happen to any person in Japan.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The judge is now an accomplice along with the prosecutors and Nissan in leading the devolution and regression of the Japanese justice system back to the 1930s in Japan. The system is now taking the form and substance of the Japanese and Soviet show trials of the 1930s and 1940s and the Chinese show trials from 1948 to the present. Second, if I were French I would get out of Japan. It's clear that the French Embassy and Government will do nothing to help Ghosn.

10 ( +14 / -4 )

This is purgatory got Mr. Ghosn. He will be free someday. They can't hold him forever.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

if you live in Japan, don't do anything criminal, the same thing would happen to you.

If he is sentenced to 10 years in prison, at least i hope they will substract all the current prison time

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

If the glove doesn't fit,

You must acquit.

Worked for OJ...

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Ghosn made his daughter remove some documents from his Brazil house (Nissan's house), which Nissan employees could not see.  So yes he could tamper with evidence.

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

@Tina, and what do you base that on? The same documents may very well exonerate the man.

Just wondering what the reaction from Renault/France/Lebanon/Brazil is in relation this matter?

The only reason he is in custody appears to be that he is a flight risk because he is a foreigner. The ‘Tampering with evidence’ excuse is losing traction I think.

Obviously the man’s word he would return if given bail and allowed to leave the country isn’t enough..

5 ( +7 / -2 )

If he is sentenced to 10 years in prison, at least i hope they will substract all the current prison time

Of course pre-trial detention time is subtracted.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

The judge claims Ghosn might tamper with evidence, but there is no indication what that evidence might be and no explanation as to why prosecutors have not already secured it.

It is equally possible that Saikawa and others at Nissan are tampering with evidence, destroying anything that might incriminate themselves. What measures are being taken to ensure that does not happen?

From this judgement we have learned that the Japanese "justice" system is incapable of securing evidence and is unable to prevent those released on bail from leaving the country. Could they be any more useless and incompetent?

5 ( +8 / -3 )

and what do you base that on? The same documents may very well exonerate the man.

Ghosn was arrested and under investigations.  The Brazil house is Nissan's. The Brazil court shouldn't have allowed daughter's access to and removal of anything from the house.

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

Could they be any more useless and incompetent?

Most definitely. 

S

0 ( +2 / -2 )

This lawyer seems cringe by the day.. Be stronger in defiance of liberty and justice, the best chance to change Japans corrupt system.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Tina:

Ghosn was arrested and under investigations. The Brazil house is Nissan's. The Brazil court shouldn't have allowed daughter's access to and removal of anything from the house.

If what you say is true, then Ghosn's being in custody did not prevent it. Therefore, it is not a reason to release him. As has been pointed out numerous times, the risks of evidence tampering/destroying and of flight are both totally spurious.

In general, defending a certain entity or person - for example 'Japan' (or 'Trump in another context) come what may, without considering any facts or logic, is not an effective strategy.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Not a reason NOT to release him, I meant.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

cruel and unusual punishment at this point

7 ( +9 / -2 )

What a joke. Why is he in the jail ?

have you even be listening, he may be a flight risk or distroy eveidence, judge or prosecutors have stated nothing of his guilt, if they had concrete proof hed be in court now, which is why they continually detain him stating, "well release you as soon as you confess" the joke here is many cant seem to understand is detention is the same as imprisonment in Japan except detention doesnt need a guilt verdict to keep you there.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Carlos Ghosn is accused of a white collar crime. Yet he is denied bail for spurious reasons (why not house arrest?) and is brought into court in handcuffs with a rope around his waist. Not to mention that he’s already been tried and convicted in much of the local media.

Are murder or rape suspects treated in a way which is worse than this? (Honest question because I don’t know.) What about Aum shinrikyo members in the initial months of their arrest. Any different?

4 ( +8 / -4 )

It's very interesting that the Medieval Inquisition, Soviet show trials, and Maoist people's courts (and Japanese prosecutors) actually WANT a confession. Something deeper is at work here. Why did they have to extract confessions from the 'Old Bolsheviks' in Soviet Russia? Why not just take them out into the forest and shoot them in the head, as Stalin's men did with innumerable lesser men? Well, because 1) obviously make an example of the big fish, but also, 2) to quiet their conscience. Inquisitors and prosecutors many times knowing they're the real criminal by railroading an innocent man, they need to hear the suspect confess in his own words, so they don't hear the stinging bite of conscience that keeps them from sleeping soundly at night. I really can't imagine how Saikawa sleeps soundly at night....

1 ( +5 / -4 )

"It can happen to any person in Japan." This is the lesson that the citizens have long needed to learn. No foreign resident is in any doubt as to the truth of this statement.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

This dog and pony show is making Japan Inc. and the Japanese "justice" system look more foolish by the day.

It looks like part of the defense strategy is to encourage the foreign media get more involved, in contrast to the hand-fed local media, and apply more outside pressure. More articles like WSJ's "Carlis Ghosn in Wonderland" will help shed more light on the fact the Japanese "justice" system allows prosecutors to hold someone indefinitely without even a shred of creditable evidence.

It seems Nissan worked with the bank and approved the use of Nissan's collateral with the agreement that Ghosn accept any loses that might occur. If true there is no Breech of Trust case and the payments to the Saudi company were legit and requested by Saudi Nissan before being approved by Ghosn.

And Japan plans on paying Ghosn 12,500 yen per day of detention if he's found innocent? What about the life they ruined trying to save face?

Ghosn may or may not be guilty but it would serve Nissan (and Japan) right if this all blows up in their face and Renault makes a hostile take over of Nissan as the stock nosedives!

Hopefully this will result in an improvement of the "justice" system here, but I doubt it...

7 ( +8 / -1 )

What a ridiculous case, keep Carlos in detention without bail. It is like a before Christ drama, I want my way. This is clear that the Japanese just want to do what they want , with no respect to the law of human rights. Excuses after excuses. If they have so much time & money to waste, pls use ask the prosecutors , the court & Nissan inc to use their own money and stop using public money & time for their own pleasure. The Carlos case stinks of Japanese bad fowl actions & mean hearted sprit. Surely, Nissan saikawa has a friend or friends in the prosecutors office. Well such people are just selfish & mean. Good fair Japanese are very ashamed of being Japanese.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

dumbest excuse - flight risk. from judge to prosecutors to nissan, a group of NPD

people around ghosn. no human deserves this type of treatment. shame shame

shame------------------------to no end.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

@Weedkilla: I want to give you 10 'likes' - Anywhere else in a G7 country he wouldn't have spent more than 1-4 days in Detention at best - I don't think that there would be need to keep him on remand after (large) bail had been posted and he had possibly been tagged. At worst. And 'Akie' - he isn't in 'Jail' - Can we stop using this word please. he is in Detention. If he was in Jail - he'd be in Fuchu Prison. period.

But yes - all foreign residents be aware, I know a person who was arrested on a Friday night because he didn't have any ID and wasn't allowed to contact anyone until Monday Morning. Keep that Gaijin card on you.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

theeastisred

If what you say is true, then Ghosn's being in custody did not prevent it. Therefore, it is not a reason to release him

He seemed have committed many crimes in very skillful ways.  Going thru a paper company Kelly created, for example, and sending Nissan money in small amount in many times thru friends.   How many crimes of his can be indicted depends on evidence they gather.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Tina,

Yes, evidence is important. So by now all relevant evidence should have been gathered from Nissan's offices and from Ghosn locations. You were supporting the court theory that continued custody is necessary to prevent evidence tampering, despite you also claiming that custody did not prevent this. You offer no logical response.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

theeast,  that evidence if any in Brazil couldn't be secured doesn't mean all other evidence cannot be prevented from tampering.  It would be easier for Ghosn to tamper evidence or run if bailed out.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

@tinawatanabe: theeast, that evidence if any in Brazil couldn't be secured doesn't mean all other evidence cannot be prevented from tampering.  It would be easier for Ghosn to tamper evidence or run if bailed out.

The specious argument of a risk of evidence tampering can be made with respect to any defendant. I would need more proof that he is particularly likely to tamper with evidence after this much time in jail. The fact that his family member removed personal belongings from a Brazilian property is irrelevant in my opinion because she is not the defendant, and the Japanese courts do not have jurisdiction over evidence outside of Japan.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

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